Last night I watched – Hansel and Gretel (2007) – a South Korean film which takes the fairytale and flips it around in ways that are equally charming, fascinating and intensely creepy. It is a beautiful, visually captivating, and brilliant film as is…
If you’ve had or have a relationship with a Narcissist, this film is not fiction, it is non-fiction. It is amazing because it explains everything, if you’re ready to understand something which sometimes defies understanding.
One of the (many) hardest challenges faced by the victim of a Narcissist is trying to explain what happened…
What happened to the person you fell in love with? Did you imagine that they were wonderful? Is it all in your head?
Whether it is a lover or a friend or a family member – although if it is a family member, like a parent, the relationship and process is different because it happens as you are developing – the pattern is the same.
One moment they were a dream come true, a Prince Charming, a Fair Damsel (who is always in distress but makes you feel heroic), an alluring Siren who only has eyes for you, a Venus or Adonis, a goddess or god who bestows their favours on you, a Casanova who seems as seduced by you as you are by them… and then suddenly, and it usually feels sudden even when it is a slowly creeping suddenness, they turn into an Ogre, a Witch, a vengeful god or goddess due to you displeasing them, and you are wrecked on the sharp rocks around them which you never saw or turned into a pig (Circe) who must now serve them, or the seducer leaves taking your heart with them and you will never get it back.
The fairytale dream turns into a sinister nightmare. A cautionary tale. This happens over and over again. They switch roles all the time, so the witch turns back into a good fairy, the Ogre turns back into a Prince… you’ve seen their real face, but now you’re confused, maybe it was an hallucination, maybe you’re crazy…
In your moment of despair and confusion you turn to others… and they reject you. Everything you tell them about your relationship and what you are experiencing, to them is all lies and fantasies which you are making up. They don’t get it, they don’t believe you, worse than that, they agree with the Narcissist that it is indeed all your fault and you are crazy and delusional. You are the Narcissist!
Even after years – read that as all my life – of dealing with Narcissists (both of my parents and others) and this scenario and realising no one but me understands what is happening, I have a hard time grasping it because it is so illogical and the mind can only handle so much nonsense before it snaps and starts making sense out of the nonsense and making the illogical sound logical. Even now that I’ve broken my silence, I edit what I say.
Sometimes it’s easier to agree with everyone else that I’m the nutcase. Sometimes it is easier to retreat into silence and let everyone believe whatever they prefer to believe. The truth is hard to handle. I have a hard time handling it, why would I expect someone else, who has not had the experiences I have had, to be able to handle it, if I have a hard time handling it, and why do I think they could help me when I don’t even know what would help me. Just being believed for once, having my side of the story acknowledged as real, would be helpful… and it is.
I have seen Narcissists and relationships with them portrayed many times in film. One of the best was – Killing Bono. The lead is a Narcissist, and drags everyone along with him chasing his Narcissistic dream. However it is an outside view of it. And it has a happy ending where the Narcissist wins and is successful, and writes a book which is made into a film, and… so he gets away with it and gets the love he wants and everyone forgives him.
This film – Hansel and Gretel (2007) – portrays Narcissists as they truly are…
Narcissists are fundamentally very creepy cute charming children who live in a house made of candy and everything nice, and who just want to be loved, and they will do whatever they have to do, poison you with candy, guilt you into staying, imprison you in a fantasy, force you to love them they way they want to be loved, to get what they want the way they want it. And Santa Claus told them that good children can make all their wishes come true just by wanting something badly enough to imagine it into being.
And it portrays what it is like to be in a relationship with one. Trapped in Neverland, Wonderland, Narnia, a fairytale which is a nightmare where you end up going insane to stay sane because you can never leave. Hotel California on endless repeat play.
Viewed from the outside everyone thinks you’re lucky, and ungrateful, unappreciative, every time you dare to complain (cry for help). So you give up… or do you.
It has a happy ending. A strange one…
It gives you the secret to how to cut ties with a Narcissist, so that…
You too can have a happy ending.
There is a gift in the curse of being in a relationship with a Narcissist, and the relationship will transform your life, at first for the worst, but eventually for the better. You will discover your true self, a strong, intelligent and powerful being who can survive the worst and triumph. It may take a while for it to come together, it will, be gentle and patient with yourself, trust your instincts.
If you’ve been with a Narcissist and are trying to make sense of your experience, watch this film. It is in Korean and has English subtitles, but you won’t need them most of the time, you’ll recognise what you are seeing. Certain things can cross the language barrier effortlessly.
Please be warned, the film contains some distressing scenes of child abuse, some gore, and violence.
The child abuse portrayed is not gratuitous.
It is important to remember that a Narcissist was not born that way, it isn’t nature, it is nurture, they were abused by an adult who had complete power over them, the abuse was constant over a long period of time (and may still be ongoing if they continue to have a relationship with their primary abuser, which they often do and they are often fiercely loyal to them), and they became a Narcissist to survive. This does not excuse who they are or what they do, it explains it, and hopefully helps you to understand why they did to you the things they did. It’s not your fault. In many ways it is not their fault either, but they are ultimately responsible for their actions and choices as an adult.
Also be warned the children are some of the cutest I have ever seen, and you may be left wondering why the hero chose a happy ending.
Those who manage to leave a relationship with a Narcissist are always left wondering if they made the right choice.
If you do decide to see the film (not sure if it’s on Netflix or Lovefilm but it’s on one of them), please let me know what you think. And share any film you think fits the Narcissist in your life and your relationship with them.
An Upturned Soul 
I don’t have a specific movie in mind but one song in particular that my ex narc friend used as a love bomb lure & tactic on eves when I was intoxicated and she thought she could manipulate me more easily was the song “The Story” by Brandi Carlile. Just listen to the lyrics. The repeating lyric “I was made for you”…this can now be officially interpreted that she was so God like and I was lucky to have her and my self sacrifying was just what she loved…it was never me. The song does mention not being understood by others and her head being a mess. That is true & I do know she thought something was wrong with her but she ultimately didn’t care. She knew she didn’t care & love like others. She did have conscious insight into that and was hoping I could unlock it all for her. But I couldn’t. I really think she knew I couldn’t but it was a good distraction for me while she was scheming. I tried to help her understand herself but I got tired of knocking down the walls to have an other one put up and being rewarded by her being hot/cold with me or f’ing with my head more. I think the night she told me she was a pathological liar and sociopath was on purpose. She wanted to beat me to figuring her out, as she knew I was close. I had confronted her on crap just weeks earlier. She’d be able to wave that in my face later on, she’d told me who she was and I didn’t listen. The weeks following her telling me that, she was especially weird acting. She would always tell me her husband thought she was crazy and a mess and she knew I was beginning to see her true colors too.
She was aware in many ways of her acting different (different persona) for different friends. That’s why none of us really knew each other. She wanted to keep us separate just as she had compartimentalized (she’d use that term a lot) her personality to different people and situations. She did have self awareness that she was not right. Is this normal to see in a narcissist? She claimed she was depressed and bipolar. BS to that! She is neither…she wanted to blame a mental illness with chemical imbalances to her acting out, mind games, and everything else. Blame the illness if you’ve got nothing else to blame. Cop out for sure. She knows right and wrong and regardless whether she is a narcissist, sociopath or just a screw ball, she is accountable for it all.
And yes, I almost forgot, “single white female” is the movie. After massive love bombing and her getting me bonded to her, she mentioned this movie to me and how she didn’t want to pull a SWF move on me, if I decided to leave her. She said we were morphing. She was threatening me but I was so oblivious and loyal at that point I didn’t know what was happening. She knew she had me where she wanted. But I never gave in. I’m proud of myself for that, as she wanted us to have a secret affair…I recall her saying, “we can keep our husbands and families out of the picture.” I told her this was a fantasy and not reality and no. She tapped into my fantasy world. I have a good fantasy world but would not act on most of it, as it would ruin my life. I am not embarrassed about having good fantasies. I am creative & a fantasy is just that…my imagination & it’s thoughts. Narcissists live in this realm and then live it out without a conscience. It was her fantasy (or her warped reality) that she was putting on me though. I never let her into my fantasy world. They prey on knowing people and their fantasies and appealing to that. They also like to just put their fantasy world on you without a care in the world if you want it or not…they think they are so awesome that they think you want it too. Very childlike indeed and oh so dangerous!
SO I guess I had a movie after all. Things just start flowing out once I get going. Good stuff.
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Single White Female!!! Yes, indeed. A brilliant film, which captures the intensity of a relationship with a narcissists, although I would say that it’s more about a sociopath with narcissistic tendencies than a narcissist. But I’m not a professional so my diagnosis is iffy.
The TV trope/character of the Narcissist is quite common in film and TV. Mostly it is used as a supporting character, one which offsets the lead or lead characters.
Occasionally everyone in a film, including the hero/heroin, seem to be narcissists, especially in happily ever after schmaltzy movies depicting idealistic love and perfect people. I saw one film recently which was all about love and relationships, and doing that whole ‘message’ thing which encourages us to buy into a narcissistic way of love and think it is normal and what we should be looking for, which made me want to puke. At one point the lead character makes this big speech about love and everyone applauds… the fact that this character (a parent) pushed another one (a child) out of the way to get attention, dismissed the other character and what they were saying (all because they loved them and did this for their own good), put them down in front of everyone… and got applauded… for it seemed to be okay with the filmmakers. And afterwards the parent encouraged the child to stalk the person they were in love with, even though that person had told them that their stalking was making them uncomfortable, because true love always wins (wears someone down until they give up their own will and give in to your will). This is one of those movies which is popular because it promotes what everyone thinks they want to hear and tells them what they think they want to hear – which is what narcissists do.
Narcissists love narcissistic films. They miss the obvious, that the reason they love it is because it is all about them! Same with songs.
They also do that – please save me from myself – thing. This is a confusing element, because it shows that they have a certain awareness about their NPD, so we assume that they therefore know what they are doing and are doing it deliberately. But their awareness is split from what they do (unless they are a sociopath with narcissistic tendencies). They know they are manipulative, but at the same time they are not aware that they are being manipulative. One minute they tell you how they have manipulated someone, and the next minute they don’t recall saying that and are certain they are the only person they know who is not being manipulative. When we try to make sense of it, we screw up our own minds.
There are some great songs and films which express what it is like to be in a relationship with a narcissist. The best ones, at least in my view, also show the level of self-deception which a narcissist has about themselves, which includes how their awareness of themselves is only a momentary flash, and then it vanishes and they forget it.
Some types of narcissist are more conscious of their manipulations – cerebral narcissists – but they are still not aware that they have NPD. In fact they tend to think other people have it, and cerebral narcissists are the ones who are most likely to blog about other people being narcissists, and claim that they are experts on being a victim of narcissists. It’s a snake eating its own tail.
Me too… when I get going, it all comes flowing out. It’s a form of release, it is also a way to see what we know.
Thank you for sharing, it is the way we inform ourselves and others. 🙂
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Once again they use their moments of self awareness to deceive, pull you in & manipulate. I have to say I am not a fan of love movies as it is all crap. I’m sometimes probably too real and just end up rolling my eyes. Madmen & girls…2 of her fav shows. So fitting, haha. Its fun to dissect it all and in the end it is giving me more peace. I am letting go, forgiving myself and realizing in the end that I am fortunate enough to be able to ultimately make the choice to live a life without deception & lies. I’m happy I have a choice. I am celebrating my 40th birthday with girlfriends tonight. I am humbled to have a group of friends that treat me well & love me for who I am and not for what they want me to be. I plan to enjoy it all, get drunk, dance like a stupid mother f’r and just be free. I will toast a drink to you friend…you have helped me along the way.
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Happy Birthday! Best wishes and many blessings for your personal New Year! 😀
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Ok…I had an other aha moment and I had to tell you! So she was big into renting Netflix Little House on the Prairie episodes. She would mention Nellie Olseon. I now know her fascination with her. She was like her as a child & still is today. It’s just so funny how her real story and self was exposed to me in so many ways throughout our friendship. But it was done in such way that any normal person would just shrug it off, not think twice and excuse it since I was bonded to her. It’s just so interesting. I think she really knew who she was. She wanted me to figure out the why for her I did in many ways but it was futile. I wasn’t the magical friend that she thought she’d found that would unlock it all. I never really watched that show much. She is a manipulating, bully, liar and exploiter of goodness. So fitting. I recall you mentioning somewhere that their fascination with certain movies or books, etc can tell you a lot about who they are. Bingo!
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I used to watch Little House all the time as a child. I loved Laura Ingalls. She was a bit of a hothead, like me, but with a good heart and was a tomboy. I hated Nellie, which I think is what we were meant to do. They had a good selection of characters in that, very much a reflection of the types of people we meet in life.
It’s true, narcs tell us about who they are all the time because the only subject they’re interested in is themselves and they never get bored of talking about themselves, so everything they say and do is all about them. And they absolutely love getting people to analyse them, explore them, discuss their issues, help them to try and solve the riddle that is them… but it can never be solved because they don’t want it to be.
I had one narc friend with whom all we did was discuss their problems and how to solve them, it was always dark and mysterious with a hint of magic, certain things could never be revealed… seconds later they’d be revealed because ‘I had a way of drawing their secrets out of them’ – which was BS. I was also the ‘wise witch’ who would help them. After each interaction they would leave having discovered and solved this and that, and wasn’t it wonderful, they finally knew who they were and so on. Following interaction we were back at square one. Everything had been forgotten, and so we’d start all over again with exactly the same problems, the same secrets being pulled out of darkness, the same discoveries made at the end. And the next time we’d meet… start again from the beginning and do it all over and over and over again.
Narcissists don’t actually want to ‘fix’ what’s wrong with them, they want us to want to ‘fix’ what’s wrong with them. Without their drama we would abandon them, or at least I think they may think that, their drama is what keeps us feeding their bottomless pit of need for attention. They are the walking wounded who never heal because without their wounds… who are they?
We only really realise just how much they told us about themselves in hindsight, partly because they send us into a coma (or a trance-like state) with their non-stop talk, and partly because we think they’re like us, so it doesn’t occur to us that they’re not… until it does and the shock can take a while to get over. Once you start to recover from the shock of it, then you begin to see them as they really are and review the things which have transpired, and slowly it all begins to form a picture which makes sense of all those things which never quite made sense but which you shrugged off… because, like you said, that’s what we do.
Hindsight is of course always a know it all and it often makes us get annoyed with ourselves, but it’s not in the moment living it. Things are very different when we’re in the moment. And when you’re with a narc who is talking and talking and talking… you really can’t listen to everything they say, it’s not humanly possible, so we blank a lot of it out.
The characters which people like and don’t like tells you a lot about them. With a narcissist it tells you even more than it does with someone who isn’t a narcissist because of how their mind works and doesn’t work. They live in fantasy and illusion, so films and TV shows and books… all fiction is very real to them, more real than non-fiction. Narcissists tend to like characters which they view as being powerful and superior in some way.
Those aha moments are great aren’t they, it’s clarity which rips away the confusion. Thank you so much for sharing, it’s very valuable. Those aha moments are treasures which keep on giving 🙂
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I was practically rolling on the floor laughing and smiling so hard that it hurts when reading your 3rd paragraph about discussing their problems over and over again to the point of insanity…same old shit. Get off the pot and do something about it, would ya! Of course not. She would be on repeat mode and the excessive talking was almost hypnotizing at times. Especially if I had a few. I recall one time I was spacing out and trying to listen to her one night on her deck. It was dark out but the deck lights were on, but suddenly they went off (they were on a timer). I remember very clearly that once the lights went out and I was not looking at her directly (I couldn’t see her face), I suddenly woke up, felt ill and preceeded to go inside to vomit in the bathroom. Talk about nauseating, ha ha! I was literally barfing HER barfing on me out.
The part about “following every interaction you are back to square one.” That’s why having a very stable brick wall available to bang your head on is essential to survival…being in a coma would be more fun. I recall her telling me her marital crap for the 100th time one night as she was dropping me off at my house. I just looked at her and said, “you are strong.” WTF was I supposed to say, I’d already gone over 50 f’n options and she still didn’t do anything. She then looked at me, smirked and flexed her biceps. It felt “had” but that was the usual shit and I was so exhausted that I’d given up. That visual of her flexing her biceps and then her saying “I’m strong”….so condescending. I should have been honest and said you are a weak ass actually since it was the same song and dance over and over again. It makes me laugh now, since I have so much clarity on her game. I know her better than she knows herself. That is pretty powerful & the confirmation that you have provided with your experience helps reinforce it.
Thanks so much. The aha moments are so awesome! Happy I can share them with you.
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…also had one more thing to tell you. I was becoming obsessed with the letter I never opened and gave to my therapist. SO at my last appt, I left the room (I didn’t want to watch her reading it), had her read it and then told her to tell me what she professionally thought was worthwhile. I could not read it, as my ex narc friend love bombed me via email, writing and text…it would have been to painful to see the same words (all total BS) & I would be haunted by them imprinted on my brain. I had to protect myself. So my therapist said it was poorly written, the usual love bombing, she admitted to hurting me but overall she said it had a condescending tone. My therapist said she played on my empathy in the letter BUT had underestimated my strength. The letter demonstrated this. So she hurt me, she’d given me time to be by myself and now it was time to come back. So typical narc abuser. We then took the letter and shredded it. The trash is where it belonged. I’m glad I did it this way. More confirmation & reassurance that I did the right thing.
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Sounds like a healthy way to deal with the letter and let it go so you can move on. Confirming what you know, being able to reflect upon it and work through it, and doing it in a supportive environment.
My guess is that your narc spent a lot of time on that letter trying to word it very carefully. Narcs usually don’t like putting their talk into written form as they can’t manipulate it and those who read it to the degree that they can when it is in air-talk form. They can’t deny what they’ve said and cover their tracks quite as easily. They can’t say – I never said that – with as much conviction if you have it in writing. But they will try and will attempt to get you to doubt what you read just as they get you to doubt what you’ve heard.
Excellent news! Your personal power now is beautiful to behold, be sure to take photos of it to commemorate these moments – internal eye snapshots to remind yourself of your progress. They come in handy in low moments, as well as when dealing with that narc again or any other narc.
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Thanks for the encouragement. My clarity is now back to normal again. My normal self. You have mentioned many times she will continue to come back and try to win me over and then attempt to screw me over, so she wins. I most recently saw her at a school event (concert). She mid concert switched her seat position to one behind me. I know she’s watching me. I am watching her too. My guard is up. She purposely walked near me at the end of the concert. I was trying to avoid her but once I started to walk towards the exit doors, she also changed her pace and made a point to walk by me and passed me. It was pathetic really. Anyways, my question for you, is do you have any one liners that gets these creeps off your back? I will swallow my pride if needed, to get her to leave me alone. Ignore, ignore, ignore is my current tactic. Any specific advice if she ever approaches me and starts talking? I think she will do this at some point. I’m done with the face off. If I give her want she wants to hear & leaves me alone…I win. I’m OK with that. I think her biggest fear is me exposing all her secrets/lies. Her reputation is at stake and I hold a lot of power over her right now. Any tips that have worked for you?
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Narcs are obsessive and never learn.
Great article on this, can’t remember if I’ve shared this one with you – http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/ambigamy/201405/why-some-people-will-never-learn
Ignoring a narc is, at least in my experience, the best tactic. However they hate it and it drives them crazy – since they’re crazy anyway what you have to focus upon is yourself and not them. They want to make it all about them. So you have to make it all about you. Do what suits you, who you are, what you feel, what you want and don’t want. Basically do a narc on the narc. Treat them as they treat you, but do it in a way which supports who you are. Don’t lose yourself, find yourself, strengthen yourself.
Which is exactly what you did when you dealt with that ‘meeting’. Ignoring her was respecting your own boundary. This is your personal space, she wants to invade it, you don’t want her invading it so you repulsed her attempts to trespass by ignoring her. I know you felt her, she probably knows you felt her – narcs are desperate to believe that they can never be ignored, that’s why ignoring them is so widely encouraged by professionals and everyone else who has had experience of narcs.
Ignoring them is like kryptonite to superman, only they’re not superman (although they may think they are) and won’t handle it with dignity.
But it can be stressful to do that, especially if you’re aware that it may provoke the narc to a face-to-face encounter at some point.
I’m not particularly good with one-liners. I tend to also not prepare in advance, I rely on my instinct in the moment. Having grown up in a narc family I’ve tried many different approaches, many of which I thought were clever but being clever with a narc can be self-defeating. They’re still engaging you and that’s all that matters to them. Male narcs are actually easier to deal with than female narcs, because they’re more aggressive and out in the open. Female narcs are a pain in the ass because it’s subterfuge central. Dealing with a female narc – you get how men feel when they try to communicate with women in a stereotypical man vs. woman scenario – everything you say is taken out of context, twisted, causes hurt and offense, is thrown back in your face in its twisted form, you’re blamed for all their pain, and nothing you do or say makes the slightest bit of difference, they can’t see your point of view and they invalidate you, your status as a human being is null and void to them, it’s all about them and their stuff, etc.
My partner is better at dealing with such situations than I am – he thinks very quickly on his feet and has a rapier wit and isn’t trained to put up with shit. He’d probably say something along the lines of – Does this drama come with free popcorn? – then he’d walk away without making any excuses for his behaviour or listening to their nonsense. If the person chased him, buttonholed him, he’d probably say – Where’s my free popcorn? – he sticks to his schtick (which is hilarious when you’re me 😉 ). What he does is basically mental martial arts – there’s a blog I found which used that term, and I thinks the term is genius!
With a narc you’re damned if you do and damned if you don’t, so you have to focus on yourself not them. What got you involved in the relationship and entangled in it was your concern for them, so that has to go if you want them to eventually go – they take forever, and sometimes never, to get the message, but don’t let their mental block stop you from blocking them.
I do sometimes use the tactic of telling a narc what they want to hear to get rid of them – but it depends on the context of the situation and the narc. So use your inner guide for that one as sometimes it just encourages them to cling to you as you’re giving them what they want.
Since you’ve got power in this situation, and both you and she know it, that’s worth exploring. You don’t want to give that power away, but you also don’t want it to be the thing which keeps her stuck to you. I think you need to analyse it a bit more to understand exactly how this power works.
My sort of default tactic is the silent treatment. Stony silence. Narcs may use the silent treatment but their version of it is not silent, they hate silence, real silence. I’m not a particularly talkative person in person (on my blog – blah blah blah – because I’m with friends, comfortable, and it bypasses my in-person reserve and shyness) so I just go with what I’m like naturally and don’t make any effort to make the other person, the narc, comfortable around me (which is what I do when the person is not a narc as I know my shy reserve can be intimidating when it isn’t understood for what it is). I use what I am naturally. Narcs don’t understand us when we are ourselves – they try to shape us into their version of us – so if we retain our actual shape it can unnerve them.
There are certain gifts in being an introvert. Ones which we don’t always notice because we’re so busy feeling awkward for being introverted and shy.
I also sometimes play dumb to a nth degree – since narcs tend to think everyone is stupid, it’s not a difficult sell. When you play dumb it can unsettle their usual routine, but it doesn’t always work, especially on those narcs who know you’re not dumb even if they think you’re dumber than they are.
Tell me, how do you deal with other people who try to intimidate you, but who don’t have the same access to you that your narc friend had? There might be a way in that which will help you with her.
Hope this helps a bit 🙂
ps. blog on which I found the mental martial arts idea – http://thinklikeablackbelt.com/
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I know the temptation to tell a narc what they want to hear, giving into that temptation, that impulse, is sometimes the only way to shut them up and get rid of them. And sometimes that’s the best way to handle them because doing anything else means having to listen to more of their BS because they’re like restless ghosts and can’t rest until they get what they are doing everything they say and do to get. They’re the only ones who are interested in it, who seem to think that repetition is exciting and fun. That’s one of the reasons they drain our energy, narcs, underneath the veneer of high highs and low lows, of soap operatic drama, are very dull flat-liners. They bore us to death. And being bored to death is exhausting.
They can’t self-reflect. They can’t have conversations with themselves and introspect and solve and evolve. Everything has to be done outside of themselves and needs other people. They need us because without us they have no sense of self. But they never move on, no matter how many times they go over the same thing, they just keep repeating it. Because repeating it is feeding a need for them.
You do know her better than she knows herself because you listened to her – narcs never listen to themselves. When they talk they’re not listening to what they are saying the way we listen to ourselves when we talk and to others when they talk. It’s a different kind of listening. For them talking is like breathing rather than communication. If they’re talking then they exist, they’re alive, they have an identity. Part of their repetition has to do with an identity they like that they have to keep affirming and validating – but they need others to do that. Their talk is a ritualistic prayer – our listening to it is as a witness.
It is fascinating to observe our relationships with narcs in hindsight – you see so much and what you see with one narc gives you the ability to recognise other narcs.
You’re on aha fire at the moment – it’s a very powerful experience!
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“they bore us to death”…it’s funny since she would always comment on liking people that are exciting and kept things interesting. People were a means of distraction Some of my close friends would comment on how they felt they were too boring for her. They project that onto others, even people that aren’t really close to her. I was her “plaything” for awhile & occupied this boredom for her. My school aged children aren’t even as demanding. They can occupy themselves better.
Your comment on “they can’t self-reflect” is so true. Hence they have certain friends and people in their lives to help them do this and make them appear more normal when a crisis hits. They just can’t deal with anything really. I told her I couldn’t be her psychologist anymore. Sometimes she’d say things that made me think she was self reflecting but I think it came from other friends, poems, a song or an article…not from within. She had no real hard and fast opinions since when you do this you must back it up with knowledge/experience which involves knowing oneself well. “Affirming and validating” is tremendously tiresome for those close to these disordered types. It’s never enough.
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Narcs use the whole – certain people bore me – thing to give the impression that they have certain standards, levels of excitement, which need to be met before they will condescend to let someone into their ‘very exciting’ dramatic life. It’s a spur to make people try harder to please them – thus feed them energy.
Narcs are actually very dull as they do the same thing over and over ad nauseum ad infinitum – to them it’s always exciting because they find repetition both soothing and thrilling. It’s play, rewind, repeat. For them each time they start their cycle again it’s brand new. For us it isn’t. But the first time around, maybe the second and third time around there’s a thrill to it, it’s new, but eventually it’s old. Once you’ve recovered from the roller coaster ride of their high highs and low lows which can seem to be incredibly exciting, you begin to feel sick. If you ride on a roller coaster enough times, you get used to the thrills and they are no longer thrilling but sickening.
I often use visual reference for the narc experience – many years ago I went on a funfair ride which was part of a traveling funfair, so they did things a bit differently than, let’s say, Six Flags. The operator let the ride run longer than usual because he asked us if we wanted more and we all shouted yes – more was a bad idea and now I know why rides are short and leave you wishing for more. Wishing for more and having more – very different. I have never been on a thrill ride since and I used to love them.
I feel the same way about narcs.
I used to follow a narc on Twitter. At first I was spell-bound by their vibe. Later I realised they were a narc and so what they did took on a different tone. They kept Twitterciding, then starting again, this time it was for keeps, they’d found their persona and were being their real self. Again and again. The exact same pattern, the exact same tweets. It was fascinating from an observational perspective. I learned a lot from them.
Now most people Twittercide at least once, especially after the learning curve which can be brutal or too much all at once. Some people do it more than once because they’re still finding their groove. But narcs do it as part of their pattern. They either Twittercide a lot or they change their name a lot – becoming less and less human and more and more super human. It’s a fascinating place to study narc behaviour – there is a lot written about it by professionals in the field.
When you can study a narc the way you’re studying this narc friend – what you see is invaluable. Your experience is priceless. This is living, breathing, personal expertise with very personally powerfully reference points. Add this to what you learn from what experts in the field write about NPD and it gives it body. It all comes together. A negative muse has given you… yourself, your power, your ability to claim your own wisdom. Pretty awesome, makes up for the blood shed and the pain felt. That pain is your ally, that blood is your witness 🙂
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Also, I’m never done and have something to add. She played the pity play victim perfectly but when she wanted something, she was confident and precise. Her voice and demeanor would change to a more commanding tone. It was all intentional & most conscious on her end. I truly believe this to be so. Makes it that much scarier than someone who subconsciously was acting. One of her last texts to me before I ditched her ass were “you truly do care, that is so rare.” and “you are really, really good looking and a good Mom, that is all really true about you.” She forgot to add that the rest of her bullshit was all a lie, just like her. It helps me to just type this shit out. It helps me heal and reaffirms my leaving since as you stated above that we are left wondering if we made the right choice. This helps me to confirm that.
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I know it helps to – type this shit out – that’s why I have a blog 🙂 I did a lot of venting early on, it’s very therapeutic, especially doing it publicly as much of a relationship with a narcissist involves keeping things behind the scenes and silent… no one ever believes it when you tell them about it, and yet they believe the narcissist because they know how to say things in a way that others are willing to listen. Tell people what they want to hear, show people what they want to see… but times change, and so do we. A narcissist never does.
Letting it all out is a way to understand it, understanding… them, ourselves, what happened… allows us to gradually let it go and move one. Takes time…
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Thanks for getting it! I have never been one to barf my stuff on other people but I must do it to heal as the silence & secrets can ravish a soul like nothing I have ever experienced. I am giving myself permission to say what I need to say…its for me. Thank you
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When we do the opposite of what we normally do, life can sometimes be infused with new vigour. It’s like finding a door we’ve never dared open, opening it and… what we find on the other side can be a whole world within us just waiting to be explored.
I think what you’re doing is inspiring 🙂
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Thanks for all the articles and links…very interesting and helpful! First of all, I am so happy you have a cool, funny, take no- shit boyfriend! I loved your popcorn response. That was awesome!!! I think I’m actually at the point where I could do something like this. It would confuse her and because it would be so ridiculous, she’d be confused. I can tell she is angry with me but also very confused. I think she thinks I’m playing hard to get. “You are damned if you do and damned if you don’t,” just sums it up so nicely in a nutshell. But if I could just be ready to react and sort of have a plan, since I know this summer she will eventually approach me at some point.
So how do I typically deal with people that intimidate me? I usually stay away from them & ignore. But for example in my clinical practice, I usually listen closely to see why they are doing what they are doing. Why are you wanting to dominate? With a more normal person, you can usually see that intimidation is really fear disguised, so I try to diffuse it and lighten the air. My therapist that I’ve been seeing told me her initial impression of me when I came to see her was that I had a strength about me but also a lightheartedness too. Usually these traits can work well together when dealing with assholes. But like you said, Narcs are obsessive and don’t learn. I think after getting your opinion and just thinking about it more that I will continue with ignoring. I can’t worry about the future. I do know that I felt absolutely nothing when I was close to her at the concert. That was so great. It was like being near a stranger.
Interesting observation about Twitter. I do not do twitter but know the basics of it and it is amazing how a trained eye can spot stuff. I think many people intuitively know something is amiss with these types but they can’t put a finger on it. Once you have first hand experience with narcs, you are able to put a finger on it! It as if things that are hidden are finally revealed and the little dumb stuff becomes really big important cues. It’s very interesting. My ex narc friend is your typical pity party all out, feel sorry for me cause I suck and I’m ugly…boo hoo hoo! Actually your full of shit. This aggressive more persistent side of her that I am seeing now is something that she hid from me (except when she was seducing me & wanted something). She did this on purpose, to play me.
It feels good to just be done with her. Even if she does come up to me, I’m at the point where just saying, “I’m not interested but a big bowl of buttered popcorn would hit the spot!” Holy crap, I’m doing this. Thank your boyfriend for rubbing off on you and passing it along to me. I’m strong but I can’t get too caught up in it all. I got to let some lightheartedness show through too for my own sanity. Worth a try, ha ha! Thanks friend!
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That’s awesome 😀 Let your natural self shine, that is personal power!
One of the ways that narcs tend to infect people with is shrinkage of self. The effect they have on us, especially with prolongued exposure to their BS is to make us behave in a way which is unnatural to us, so we feel less secure and unsure of our footing. It’s much harder to take a stand and stand up for yourself if you’re doubting your feet.
The reason which you have observed in your clinical practice why normal people dominate and intimidate is exactly the same reason narcs do it. Yes, they obscure it more than normal people do because normal people aren’t operating from the same HQ as narcs. Most people want to sort things out and are open to seeing that the problems they have with others may be partly due to them. Narcs are shut-ins, narrow-minded and closed. I’ve known a couple of narcs who are ‘nice’ for narcs, in as much as they don’t do what they do deliberately to harm, it does harm, but they think they’re being good people. They try very hard to ‘learn’ but the disorder overrules them. It’s compulsive and they end up doing what all narcs do no matter what they do. So they don’t, can’t and won’t learn because NPD is a state of stuckness. Ego is king/queen.
Pay close attention to who you are. Who you know yourself to be and also the traits which others point out to you about yourself, like your therapist (only when others point you out to yourself, make sure you agree and know where they’re coming from). I’d point out that on top of your strength and lightheartedness, you also have keen insight and very good instincts/intuition. These are all personal powers when dealing with a narc. Humour is one of the hallmarks of a healthy person (particularly when it is a friendly humour, one which warms the heart) and it can be anathema to a narc, as well as being an antidote to their BS. Narcs can only be humorous when laughing at others – they take themselves very seriously. They are fond of things like practical jokes, they find the humiliation of others funny because it feeds their ego. If someone does the same to them – they become obsessive about wreaking vengeance.
Enhance and support your natural gifts, your natural self – that’s your power. Be yourself and do it loudly and proudly. I hope you listen to your own words, they are very worth hearing. You are an inspiration, don’t forget to enjoy it for yourself too 🙂
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Thanks so much. She came to my house yesterday. I saw her car on the street from my dining room window. She knocked and then rang the door bell twice. She stood there probably 5 minutes. I was scared and went upstairs and locked myself in my bedroom. She eventually left. The front door was unlocked and I was scared that she was going to let herself in. I would have called 911 if she did. I don’t trust her.
I got my husband involved. He is like your boyfriend. Won’t put up with this shit. He texted her and told her that he heard she was at our house and that I had told her NC and she better stay away and never come to our house again. I then texted her husband. I briefly told him why & when I had gone NC with her, I had no choice, that I am unable to forgive abuse & if he would please let her know to not contact me and not come to my house again. I told him we have nothing against him and the kids and want good for him and sorry I had to pull him into this. He responded by telling me he is very sorry and will make sure this doesn’t happen again. So it is all out in the open. I feel relief. No more sneaky secrets and BS. She is playing my game now and my game involves being honest, open & to the point. She is exposed and I’m hoping she now fears me and my husband. We are a dual force & won’t back down. He always had my back but now she knows it.
You know all the details of my ordeal. I feel like we are pen pals. Thanks for all your words of encouragement and useful information. I have relied on it all and have strategically used it to my advantage. You can only play the game if you know which one you are in. I’m very clear on that one I’m in now. I am calling the game Boggle…you know that one where you shake the dice in a container and make words. Sums up this journey, it’s boggling. But I am beginning to find the words and piecing it all together. Grateful for you.
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The way you responded to that particular scenario was the best thing you could do. So be sure to give yourself kudos for it – supporting ourselves is an important part of the process of dealing with narcs and recovering from the effect which they have had on us. It boosts confidence and undoes some of the whittling away of our confidence which a relationship with a narc tends to incur.
She was trying to invade your boundary and impose herself on you on her terms. Her standing there for 5 minutes was a good experience. She won’t learn anything from it. It shows you how dense a narc is to social cues and propriety.
On a side note – where do you live that you can leave your door unlocked!?! Sounds like a nice neighbourhood to be in (except when narcs come calling) 🙂
It’s a good tactic to get others involved – you’re not doing it like a narc would do it so don’t worry about it – as this shows you that you have support, and it allows those who care about you to show you that they are there for you can can offer you their help if you need it. I bet your husband enjoyed being your knight in shining armor. He’s probably used to you being independent and this gave him the opportunity to be chivalrous. It can be an insightful and fun side of dealing with a narc. You find out who your friends and allies really are and you realise that you’re not alone, that you have back up. Since narcs often try to isolate people, this is the anti-isolation healing treatment.
Her husband knows her routine, so he’ll have understood. There may not be much he can do about her once she’s in obsessive mode, but you never know. There’s this thing in narc families – when the narc is focused on someone outside of the family, the family experiences a certain relief for a while from full narc attention, until things enter the latter stages of the cycle, then it’s a batten down the hatches scenario. I’m guessing that at the moment she probably never stops talking about you with them, and they know what you’re going through. He’ll probably try to re-focus her attention elsewhere if he can – which is not dissimilar to distracting an upset child.
She’ll have to rethink her tactics. She may try again. Narcs often rely on perseverance to wear people down. They also tend to think that doing the same thing over and over and over again is going to magically get different results. So you counteract it by also persevering. Showing her that the same behaviour gets the same result. NC is NC. She may not know what that means, she may not think it applies to her, she may not respect it or you – but you do.
You know that brick wall that you feel like bashing you’re head against when trying to communicate with a narc because the wall is more likely to listen than the narc – you have to become like that brick wall, only this time the narc is bashing their head against it trying to communicate with you.
You know what you’re doing. Keep doing it. You have a great husband as back up – teamwork at its best! Your life, your game, your rules, you win 🙂
I know boggle… nice comparison 🙂
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She responded to my husbands text “OK” in less than 3 seconds…he scared her. I know she fears him. She should, he knows it all. As she’d always say to him, “are you judging me?” Sort of a weird thing to say but I think it’s because she saw his strength and love for me and was paranoid of him. She knew he was not one to bend over backwards for someone. He’s a nice dude but not a kiss ass. I’m more like that…blah! Not really trying though, I just like people. Anyways, I think this may put her off for awhile at least…we’ll see. Just from her past & me knowing her I think what she wants me to do is let her off the hook. Just tell her that it’s my problem too and I forgive her. This is what others have done, especially her husband. I can’t do that right now. Maybe I’ll get to that point some day but she is always let off the hook…spoiled brat. I will not give her the pleasure of shouldering the blame. She wants to be reassured that I will keep my mouth shut. No…I won’t do that. SO I’m being stubborn right now. Giving her a piece of her own medicine. If she would have just respected the NC, I won’t be getting everyone involved. She is screwing herself, ha!
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Narcs tend to do that if you have patience – screw themselves. Having patience is difficult though because they constantly poke and pinch you one way or another trying to get you to react the way that they need you to.
The thing to keep in mind is that narcs don’t have the internal dialogue which we have. They can’t self-reflect, nor do they empathise which comes with being able to self-reflect. And what does go on inside of them is very black and white, they can’t think in shades of grey. They don’t tend to be able to reason things through.
For instance – if you had hurt someone the way she has hurt you, of course you’d want to resolve it, clear the air, apologise, be forgiven, explain, be understood and understand, etc, but you would have empathy about the other person’s side of the story, the situation would not be just about you and what you want. If someone went NC with you, you’d respect it, as one human to another who understands that sometimes things can’t be resolved, that time and distance is sometimes needed. That kind of reasoning and logic, which weighs many factors and finds understanding, for you and for others.
A narc can’t, won’t and doesn’t do any of that. It is all about them. It is all about ego. It’s all about self-image and identity. She doesn’t want forgiveness like you or I would, because that would mean she’d have to accept some blame and responsibility. What you’re doing is holding her accountable for her behaviour and this is making her uncomfortable, it’s upsetting her self-image, so she wants the discomfort to go away. She needs you to kiss up and make everything better for her. Then she can feel good about herself, everything if forgotten, clean slate, and she can do it all over again as though nothing happened.
You’ve got her number and you have a team on your side who also has her number. Being stubborn is, IMO, the best tactic to use with a narc. 🙂
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Thanks & good, I will do just that. I want her to be uncomfortable, as she was giddy when I was. You know the saying, “You reap what you sow.” I will not back down, if that’s what it takes I’ll do it. I’ve always been strong but I am now a force to be reckoned with. She’ll keep screwing herself and I’ll be that brick wall. We know she’ll never learn, it’s not about her anyways, it’s about me. It’s about my self respect, my soul, my confidence, my honesty, my integrity and my life. Thanks for the reinforcement Ursula!
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Rock on 🙂
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Wow…the emotionally dead souls of forever in stasis wondering the dark forest (streets) in search of the heart and soul they “must” never possess as a result their own ironic abusive schism during childhood–the Grimm mythical continuum is real. My all time favorite overt narcissistic monster is Pale Man; a kind of opposite embodiment of the Wizard of Oz.
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Mythology, fable and fiction is full of monsters, many of which are disguised as heroes rather than villains. The archetypes is our psyche play out in real life, and we create fictional versions of real life to understand the subtleties which lie beneath the surface veneer.
The Wizard of Oz was sort of a narc too. 😉
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