Are You A Narcissist?

This post was inspired by some of the things which you have said to me. I hope you don’t mind, and I hope you can see how much you inspire me.

What would happen if you went into therapy to try and heal the issues that the Narcissists in your life have caused, and your therapist, after listening to your story, instead of being understanding as you had hoped they would be turned to you and said – I think you may have Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

Now, if you’ve been in a relationship with a Narcissist, they may have accused you of such a thing already. It’s a trendy accusation and has been so for a while. It’s one of those accusations to which there is no clever reply, so if it was used to distract you from the situation, to shut you up or leave you sputtering angrily – No, I’m not, you are! – it probably worked. You got so caught up defending yourself that you forgot what the discussion or argument which you were having was actually about. And the Narcissist escapes responsibility once again by driving you crazy.

I saw this tactic used in an episode of Six Feet Under. The real Narcissist accused their partner of being a Narcissist to win an argument by taking it to a place of no return.

Since most Narcissists are not consciously aware that they have NPD, but they are aware of the existence of the disorder and that others (never them) have it, they feel very justified in using it as an accusation. To a Narcissist, it is everyone else who has Narcissistic Personality Disorder. They believe that, so arguing with them is pointless. They probably have proof too. Lots of stories about all the Narcissists in their life and what they did to them. Narcissists are always the victim. You made them do it. That is that.

And people who are not Narcissists, but who may consistently attract Narcissists will have similar proof and stories.

Can you see where this is going? It’s going straight into the land of confusion which is typical of Narcissistic Personality Disorder, whichever side of it you are on.

So what do you do if someone tells you they think you are a Narcissist? Well it depends on who is telling you this about yourself. If it is a Narcissist, shrug and ignore it, they’re talking about themselves as usual. But what if it is a mental health professional? They should know, right?

Well, in theory they should know. In practice… they should know that telling a Narcissist that they have Narcissistic Personality Disorder will get a door slammed in their face and that’s the last they will see of them. So why would they do it, unless they were deliberately trying to get rid of that patient. Maybe they were testing to see whether their patient truly wanted to heal themselves. A Narcissist who is willing to accept their disorder is rare, but they do exist.

But what if the patient who has just been diagnosed with Narcissistic Personality Disorder doesn’t have the disorder? And what if they now believe they might because someone they are supposed to trust has told them they do?

If you tell someone who is trying to recover from years of abuse at the hands of a Narcissist that they have Narcissistic Personality Disorder you may end up destroying what was left of their strength to fight their way out of the confusion and silence which Narcissistic abuse causes.

Narcissistic Personality Disorder has become a demon of a disorder. Everyone knows about it. No one wants to be diagnosed with it. If you really have it, and you suspect you do… would you admit it? Society views it now as akin to being diagnosed as being possessed by evil. And we know how humans deal with that sort of thing.

If you are the child of a Narcissist, and especially if both your parents are Narcissists, you will have inherited by exposure to your parent or parents many of the traits and behaviour of NPD, but you do not necessarily have the disorder. But you may be an Inverted Narcissist:

Inverted Narcissists

Sam Vaknin—”a self-help author who openly discusses his experiences as a person with narcissistic personality disorder”—has identified a special sub-class of such codependents as “inverted narcissists.”

Inverted or “covert” narcissists are people who are “intensely attuned to others’ needs, but only in so far as it relates to [their] own need to perform the requisite sacrifice”—an “inverted narcissist, who ensures that with compulsive care-giving, supplies of gratitude, love and attention will always be readily available … [pseudo-]saintly.”  Vaknin considered that “the inverted narcissist is a person who grew up enthralled by the narcissistic parent … the child becomes a masterful provider of Narcissistic Supply, a perfect match to the parent’s personality.”

In everyday life, the inverted narcissist “demands anonymity … uncomfortable with any attention being paid to him … [with] praise that cannot be deflected.” Recovery means the ability to recognize the self-destructive elements in one’s character structure, and to “develop strategies to minimize the harm to yourself.” – via WikiCodependency

Narcissistic parents tend to turn their children into Inverted Narcissists. Recovering from being an Inverted Narcissist is significantly easier than curing Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Inverted Narcissism is still questioned as to whether it actually exists or not. That in and of itself, to me, confirms that it does exist as it is a disorder which does exactly what it says it does, it demands anonymity and so people ignore it and deny it. That’s what happens to children of Narcissists.

I am the child of two Narcissists and I was an Inverted Narcissist for a while. I did not develop NPD. I did feel pressured to do so by my parents, but it never took root, because my parents did not want that kind of competition, so they installed a self-destruct button within me should I ever think I was… a separate entity from them. So, in some ways, having two parents who were Narcissists stopped me from becoming one. I also owe a lot to life for not giving me the sort of opportunities which might have encouraged the disorder to take hold. I never went into therapy. Therapy requires trust. Trust is very difficult for the child of Narcissists, as when your parents betray you, trust is not an option. I cured myself, and still work on that cure every day. My cure basically entails embracing being an ordinary human, and enjoying it. I’ve written about this in other posts, and you’ll see the signs of it in all of my writing.

And that is the secret to knowing if you are a Narcissist or not. Can you embrace being an ordinary human? That may sound like a silly question, but it is the simplest things which give Narcissists away. To them the concept of being ordinary is horrific. To me it is a relief and a most beautiful idea. Tell a Narcissist that they are ordinary and they will scream – I’m melting! No they won’t, they’ll try to annihilate you with vitriole and/or erase you from their life.

So, if your therapist suggests to you that they think you may have Narcissistic Personality Disorder… rather than being upset or offended or outraged, flip it around… no, don’t accuse your therapist of being a Narcissist, they might be but that’s another story… If the reason you are in therapy is to heal from the abuse you suffered at the hands of a Narcissist, then maybe being cured of having Narcissistic Personality Disorder is exactly what you need. WTF do I mean!?! Well, NPD is a confusing mess… so perhaps the cure for all the abuse you suffered at the hands and mouth of a Narcissist lies within the cure for the disorder itself.

I have learned more by studying NPD than I have by trying to solve my problems individually. Because the NPD of my parents caused most of my issues, getting inside of the disorder has helped me to understand it and cure the damage it has done to me. I’m still working on it… and most recently realising how much of my behaviour is similar to that of those with NPD has been an amazing breakthrough.

Healing… can cross boundaries, and sometimes by crossing those boundaries willingly we can embrace the sort of healing we thought was out of our reach. A flexible mind with very flexible thinking is necessary when dealing with Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

So, if your therapist suggests you have it, try this just to see what happens – Ask them what the cure is? Maybe that cure will help you, even if you don’t have the disorder. You never know until you try, by trying you find out, and then you’ll know for sure… and won’t be as open to being messed with by others.

Please be aware all my advice is crazy. I learned a while ago that the only way to deal with my parents and other Narcissisits was by being crazier than they were (I suppose that’s rather NPD-ish), it was holding onto my sanity that was hurting me. If you can’t beat them, join them, learn their ways and then use those ways against them to free yourself from club you don’t want to belong to.

As always… Take care of yourself. I mean that literally.

Advertisements

57 thoughts on “Are You A Narcissist?

  1. My name is Ritu Bhargava and I been running my own business for last 6 years.
    I am very confident person and in one meeting I would easily be able to impress you by my Charm.I am down to earth ,helpful and an honest person and have been victimised many times in my life . it left lot of emotional scars inside me which made me go on a spiritual Journey to understand myself and life, so that i can put an end to falling every time into the spiral and getting caught into other people drama and being taken advantage of my innocence all the time

    But…. Wait …..what if I tell that .. All this …..is a Big ..Fat …Lie…. That there is something more to it. Something dark. Something so Dark that I have to put many fake layers on the top that nobody would be able to see the real self ,the real truth.
    I myself would never be able to come out clean , As I was living in complete denial. But then ,Things changed When i met someone in my life that would see under all those facade the Real dark person and without any sort judgement held my hand with all faith and trust ,showed me the Path of righteous living and the way to peal the layers of dishonestly ,at the same time making me strong enough to face and acknowledge the action first without any judgement to myself.

    So let me start again
    My name is Ritu bhargava and I am also known as Rita.
    Since a child I had a very low self esteem and always been super conscious about myself.This develop a feeling of hatred and anger inside me and made me super jealous of anyone who was happy and able to enjoy their life.i started to look for the reason to destroy their peace and made them feel the way I felt inside ,which gave me immense pleasure.
    My sister had been my target for very long time. I had used her and abused her all the time without her awareness.
    Though she was my elder sister but i was never able to connect with her and deep down I was using the label sister so that I can treat her like my servant. She was an intelligent girl and favourite of most of the teacher and parents always praised her for her smartness which made me feel like a looser. I could not bear that she was smarter than me as In my thought I was more superior , beautiful and more deserving then her. In order to teach her lesson for taking my attention away I started to think of strategies to pull her down and break her confidence. I started creating doubts in her about her weight and how she looks. I made her paranoid that she started surviving on just fruits and would fast for days.i also made her hate the way she looks by teasing her for her dark complexion.when she came for a support I would never give her a clear answer and would keep her on suspension so that she could not overcome her weekness and remain in that spiral.
    For me she was ugly and doesn’t not deserve any attention and i made sure that i drilled that into her head without even her knowing that i am purely an evil and could not be trusted .
    One day I came across her personal diary .without her permission I went through everything and found that how she is struggling to accept if mom and dad loved her.she was depressed as she could not feel the love from our parents and thought that everybody loved me ,only because she is not beautiful. i got super excited to read that feeling of hers which gave me immense joy to see the suffering of not being loved .To make her feel more bad I shared with mom and my mom confronted that in front of her which broke her down completely.i enjoyed everything and pretended that she is stupid to feel that way and mom and dad loves everyone equally.
    She trusted me so much that she never doubted me once ,that it can be her sister that was mentally abusing her and slowing poisoning her mind to break her completely from inside that she started thinking being beautiful is everything and beauty means being fair complexion which if she is not then nobody would like her ever.
    Her oNly crime was by being good in studies which made me feel like a looser and that’s how I made her pay for that by being completely inhuman towards her emotions.
    I kept on involving her at night in long conversation about me by being vulnerable and taking maximum attention from her and once done brushing her off completely without even listening to what she might be going through.
    I had a younger brother too on whom I learn my first lesson of bulling people.i would light the matchstick and scare him so much that he would listen and do what I told him to do.i even forced him once to wear the skirt by scaring him with something so that I can laugh and have a good time without even thinking what he might be going through.

    Then i started using bulling skill in school on those who werent popular ,I remember there was a girl name Shivani in my school and I used to bully her around. One day I pushed her from behind and she fall down and got hurt.i got scared and came as if someone else pushed her and tried to show the face of a helpful friend. I took her to school doctor and stayed with her which made me won her heart and till today she is unaware of the truth
    There was one time when I was playing outside I saw some ants carrying some food to their nest. A thought came to see what happens when I destroy their nest. I went inside got water and slowly poured it on their nest and soon their big nest started to melt away away killing most of the ants.i felt guilty but soon brushed that feeling of by not thinking about it too much and giving myself Leeway that they are just ants ,and wont be able to say anything to anyone .i would only abuse those whom i know i can take controll over and and its fine to do that.i never told anyone about this incident
    Also there were many time on our way back to home I used to see people committing sucide by jumping from train or by simply falling from train and i used to get fascinated by it. I sometimes use to force my mom to wait so that I can see and she used to get mental about it that what sort if sick person I am.

    As growing up I have seen my parents fighting all the time. I used to get really scared in the starting but later I became so disconnected that what ever they felt or needed any help ,I never wasted my time in that. My sister used to cry and try to patch the things up ,calling them and explaining them so that they would get back together. I would be all alone in my dreams ,completely lost in my self. Enjoying the drama and sometimes adding more fuel to the fight.

    Also while growing up i was very confused about myself.always felt that I have this masculine energy inside me which is being trapped in a female body. My mom used to dress me up as a boy when I was young and I used to enjoy that but as I was growing I wasn’t really able to see myself having a vagina and boobs. I didn’t have any famine qualities in me and always behaved like a boy.i was confused about my sexuality for very long time .But as I started to grow I suppressed all the confusion inside me and put more layers of fakeness around so that nobody would be able judge me and I can behave like a normal women.

    Because of suppressing all sort of feeling inside me i dealt with lot of mood swings which would rage into anger and exploding out on people.i would hurt them with my words so much and once I see that they have broken down I used to get normal and behave that nothing happened leaving the other person in complete shock and scared.

    I didnt have any ‘real’ remorse for my behaviour as the feeling of being special and unique was constantly in my head screaming all the time which gave an umbrella to all the action. And I felt like I am entitled to behave like that.
    As time passed by, I started to get bored with the same pattern of people around ,I craved something more exciting in my life, a new way of manupilating people where there is no restriction on me and I can fully embrace the darkness inside me.i decided to go oversea for my further studies far away from my family and friends .i was literally dying for the freedom.
    I choose Australia and was looking forward for the new beginning.i still remember when my parents came to see me off at airport they were all emotional and scared and I on the other hand cannot wait to leave everyone and start fresh.i never felt the emotional bond with them.i was just using them for money to make my life more easy and smooth till the time I can become financially independent.i even took my fathers provident fund kept for his old age as my tuition fees and I felt it was my right to have it. i am only nice till the time I can get something out of it ,I never wasted my time on whom I was aware are of no use to me.

    Australia was beautiful and the freedom it came with was amazing.i didn’t have anyone to put restriction on me and I can do what ever way I like.
    Though I still maintain the mask of being naive and innocent as it made it easy to win people trust and make anyone fall into my trap of manupilation.

    Moving on ,I started to look for the job straightway to make myself financially independent. My class mate informed me about the vacancy at his work place for the waiters.
    He took me there so that he could be of any help to me. He was unAware of my deceitful nature and my competitiveness. As this was the first time i could show case my ability to perform so that a comparison can be created and I can come out to be the best one,i worked literally hard and especially on those area where he was struggling and put an impression of me being better and smarter than him at the same time. I also fanned their ego and behaved in a manner that I am just like their family member . Within 3 days i was successful in Getting him fired from his job . I felt victorious for the first time.
    Rather than feeling bad about what happened ,the sense of being the best came in my head. I felt amazing to see that I can be better than everyone and got the taste to stand on people. There was no remorse ,only the sense of achievement.

    The love for myself kept on growing more stronger day by day.
    Manipulating people And taking their advantage came very easily to me.i always believe in take and take relationship. Giving was a part which I never had in me. I pretended though and in that pretentious moment to look good have done some deeds but immediately would start to plan how to take it back.

    My job used to finish late at night and I have to run quickly to catch the last tram. One day as I finished late at work I had a feeling that I missed my last tram.i was waiting at the stop and I saw a young taxi driver looking at me while passing through. His name was Raj.He came back and offered me ride to the campus as it was late and not safe.i showed resistance with little bit flirt so that he can ask me again and again.
    i made him To beg me only then I said yes to him.
    we talked all through the Journey while dropping me to the campus
    and became friends after that.
    My shyness and the reserved nature created an image of being a young girl with the high moral value. I sold trust by this image .Though he wanted more than friendship but I was not interested In that at all.
    I was using him for free ride ,dinners and to run any errands for me.

    By this time I have moved to my new apartment from the university campus with the girl name Maria haq. I had chosen her because according to my calculation I would be easily able to manipulate her for long time by creating the doubt in her self esteem but still giving the shoulder to hang on.i knew I would be able to confuse her easily and will be able to put the seed of envious in her. And my plan worked very well. She tried to copy my style and bought excatly the same clothes like me and some dominated .sometimes when she was not around I even used to go to her room and go through her stuff which was very exciting for me.

    Time passed by and i pretended Everything was going really smooth. One day while I was at work,I was serving this table Where this decent guy was sitting with his friend. I thought he was looking at me a lot. I always acted shy and reserved in front of any men which literally helps me to create an impression and make it easy for me to let them come them self into the trap.
    Moving on His name was Naval and when he came to pay the bill, he started chatting with me. After some chat he told me that he know someone who is looking for retail assistant if I would be interested.
    I didn’t gave any answers and he gave me his number to think about the job.
    I texted him next day he told me the address for the job and because of him I got the job. Though I never liked him as he didn’t fit the image which I liked but he was ready to come himself in the trap and I enjoy being served so I literally took advantage of him.
    He started helping me more by buying lunch for me and taking me around and once i was sure that he is completely in my trap, i started to use him more. i really enjoyed the attention given and I felt entitled to be ‘serve’ like that.he was doing from love and I made sure i took advantage of him. I even made him pick me up at 6am in the morning after finishing a job.he literally treated me like a princess.
    He was religious person with immense faith in The Lord t ( i was a fake religious person .)as well which made me feel that we were on different level. I was young and never tasted freedom and wanted to go out and have fun.and he was looking for someone to settle down which I was not ready yet and he was 9 years older than me which was big thing for me then as I was just 18
    He also helped me to get the job where he was working part time and again somehow I manage to get those days when he was working.
    Again I felt like I was a star.Born to defeat people
    By this time I left the retail job and got the job at mac Donald. And that’s where I met Diyar.i felt like I have fallen in love(though I never felt love ).he was one year older than me ,very cute and was completely my type.

    I made sure that I clicked with Diyar as I really wanted to go out with him . And luckily Everything worked according to the plan.i met Diyar at night after he finished his job and we used to talk till late in his car.
    Naval was with me in the morning and helped me around with day to day things.
    Soon my mom and my sister came in as well and i made sure naval looked after them as I showed i was busy with my job and studies.
    Not only that before they came I put all my washing into the tub soak them for while and min they entered the flat I showed them the bathroom to clean my clothes. They were literally shocked to see me living in a dump hole. I was laughing inside and left them to deal with the mess.
    When I came back everything was speck and span. For me I was happy that I can make anyone do whatever I like and was patting my shoulder for this great achievement.
    After my family left I knew I won’t be needing naval ‘s help and started looking for an excuse to take him out of my life without me being the bad one.
    And that day came too.he was sharing some ghost stories and I got scared and he came close to me. My shy nature and a little bit Flirt made him aroused and I let him kissed me slowly on my neck.i was enjoying that moment too when I realised that it will be the best excuse to get him out of my life and I would be free to go out with Diyar.
    After sometime out of now where I got very mad at him and created the drama of touching me and trying to take advantage of me.
    I said lot of nasty things to him and made him feel very guilty of his action.
    I succeed in my plan of leaving him by making him responsible for the action and making him confuse by creating the guilt in him for what he have done. My drama still continued in front of my house mate to fully maximise the attention and hook everyone in my drama by making sure i get the sympathy and when I went outside I saw him still standing there. He looked at me,gave me prasad and wished me good luck and walked away from my life.
    I felt very joyous inside as my road was clear to go out with Diyar.
    Though my insecurities took toll on me and it didn’t lasted for very long time.he was really good looking which made me conscious about my self.i started getting really jealous every time he talked with anyother girl. As I was used to get pampered by naval which I didn’t receive the same from him which made me question about my choice.

    Though I felt like I have made the wrong choice and literally regret of living him.
    If I would have played well I would be going out with both of them.
    It was His faith in The Lord that literally saved him from my poisons claws otherwise i would have made him go through hell.

    And soon I was looking for a reason to leave Diyar too. In this ,I involved my mother aswell, I knew my mom won’t agree if I tell her that I m going out with a guy and that’s too of different religion. She gave me ultimatum that either leave him or ready to be thrown out of the family.i obviously choose the first one and made my mom villian and easily came out of the relationship also made sure that I create the distance between them but still making my self look good in both eyes.

    My parents always helped me in making my life a lot more easier . Infact they bought me my first car so that I can organise things in better way.
    For me the car was ugly and not upto my standards.
    Beauty attract me. For me outer beauty is more important than inner as deep down I am aware of my darkness and the insecurities so the outer beauty is the story which I sold to myself making me believe that people who are physically beautiful are special person and basically God’s Gift to the world and richness just add the cherry to the cake. I hated the car that’s why every time I used to take it to the university I parked it somewhere that it cannot be seen that I am the owner of that car. I had always been paranoid and scared of being laughed by people and being judged and the beauty was only thing I had and I was holding on to it very tightly.

    One day I was not able to start my car so I went to a mechanic that was near to my apartment. Every time I See any man I just crave to control and manupilate them and have urge to be served by them especially who are kind and innocent.its a game for me to see how good i am in it.i saw him and after bit of talking I new I could be able to easily manupilate him and get my things done.its always the same game with men.some takes time and some not.innocent,shyness and eye contact works very well plus giving the ears to listen to him by fanning his ego. Every time he is talking I would give him an eye contact and then just keep on looking around. Play with my hair,body movement and act dumb to make them feel smart.
    He started giving me huge discounts and extra services for free.
    What he wanted I never gave it to him after all he was not up2 my standard and once I bought my first Brand new car I never looked back to me.Never went and Said even Thanked him for his kindness. I used him and could not used him anymore ,I just moved on.

    Days passed and I got busy with university ,work and parties. I loved going out for clubbing and dressing up to impress. Even though if I didn’t have much money to pay rent ,I made sure that I had new clothes for each new party.
    Though later Parties were becoming highly pressured for me as constant comparison with each and everyone literally made me exhausted.i needed to be the best one out and center of the party.when I was not able to get what I am demanding then the after affect were terrible mode swings and normally went into depression.i instantly need someone to victimised so that I can share my depressing story and gain back my energy and my sister was my instant recovery center.later I stopped going for clubbing or any get together with lot of people as Was not able to adjust myself with less attention.
    I remember I met Akhil through one party and I decided to go out with him because in my eyes he was not good looking which would be perfect so that I can make him dance on my finger. He was only one guy that none of my manipulation worked. I even told him that doctors told me that I have cancer and will die soon still I was not able to come even close to break him.i knew I got my match that’s why I decided to go away.

    By this time my sister also informed me that she is getting engaged .she was very excited and in love. I instantly got very jealous and could not understand that how she can get love. For me she is less deserving is not entitled to any happiness. I am more beautiful and deserve all the happiness in the world. I was angry and upset.
    Though I showed the face of a good young sister who is supportive and very excited but deep down I was not able to tolerate.
    In order to show that I am much more better than her ,I started to look for a relationship.
    By this time I was working as a sales person in a queen victoria market market where I saw a cute, tall afghani guy.he used to pass my stall every single day.i was trying to get his attention first by making an eye contact .the min i knew i got his attention i would dial up a little high like started to look somewhere else ,sometimes pass the smile , then avoid ,sometime blank face and then completely ignore,then smile again,some time even talk to some other guy in front of him. By this time i was trying to create an urge in him to desperately want me more.
    Time passed by and we kept on looking each other. By this time I knew he is shy person and must be finding hard to approach me and I wont be taking the first step as it would put my standard down.so I involved my boss as I knew she had a loud mouth and could play the Cupid between us and it happened exactly like that. She went to the stall where he was working and bought him to the stall.i pretended to be shocked and clueless but deep down knew everything is working according to my plan.she gave him my number and the guy was super happy. We started talking to each other a lot and went on her first date.i acted very shy and reserved which made him feel to look after me more.
    We kept on talking to each other and he confessed that he loves.i was enjoying the attention which I was getting . One day while talking he mention that he would like to share something about his past as it was important for him to be honest.
    He told me that he been in and out of mental hospital and how he have some Jin and can see spirit or being possessed by them before but now he is fine.
    Rather than supporting him,I instantly wanted to be out of this relationship .he had some issues which I don’t wanted to be a part of it.and I made up story that how my parents have looked some guy for me to get married and we should stop talking to each other. He could not believe what just happened and I stopped responding him or picking up his call.
    For me he was past and I felt that I was so lucky to be saved from him( never thought it was the other way round)
    I didn’t wasted any more time and moved on quickly.i was introduced to Bharat Through mutual friend and I thought he would be good for the time pass as for me he didn’t seems marriage material because he was younger to me not financially independent.
    But when things started to get a little bit serious and I end up losing my virginity.i wanted more commitment from his side which he was not ready to give in which created an anger towards him which I kept it inside me.i showed him the face that how I am really enjoying everything .

    I continued playing game with him. During this time I also went to India to attendant my sister wedding
    I went to India for my sister marriage ,by This time My all attention went to upstage her in her own marriage.
    Though i acted very supportive but deep down was very jealous of how she was very happy.I still kept on pulling her into my drama by keep on comparing myself with other girls asking her all time who is better and not letting her enjoy completely in her own marriage.

    And luckily I was able to find someone immediately after my sister ‘s marriage.his name is Gaurav Bhalla who ticked all the boxes for me.i met him at the airport while coming back to Melbourne and we started hanging out with each other
    i created the distance from Bharat and stopped picking up his phone call or messages.i instantly took him out of my life when gaurav came in.
    Gaurav was a very strong man who was always happy ,smart and educated.
    I showed him the image of an Indian girl with high moral value. I also mention to him that how I have been saving my virginity for my husband but then I lost it. Though he never fall for any of my stories and loved me in the way I wanted (like the way naval did.i started comparing every guy with naval.) which created an urge in me to want him more.
    I put pressure on him to move in with me so that i can control him better but when i realised that he is still not into me. I started blackmailing him that I will leave everything and go back to India which made him worried and under that pressure he Said yes for the marriage.
    After the marriage he wanted me to behave and dress up in certain as he was aware that how i like to get attention from people which I couldn’t not able to handle it properly. I like to be in control and do what ever i like not the other way around. With him it started to feel that my wings been chopped off.
    As the marriage happened only through my manipulation and force that’s why the feeling of content with him was never there.i was always scared that he might leave me or he doesn’t love me which made me to push and control him more.
    I started arguing with him a lot which made me frustrated and no matter what did i was not able to break him internally to get the control on him so i started fabricating stories to the people around me to get the attention and support from outside.
    I would tell everyone that how he is mentally abusing me and not letting me to go out and forcing me to cover myself fully up. He has become possessive and always putting me down and also taking my money away.
    I was successful in creating sympathy for myself against him. I made him villain but strange ,every time he would meet my friends he was able to put the good impression on them so i learn that it’s always good to create difference in people aswell so that if they meet they would hate each other .(so yes I was learning my game of manipulation ) also I started to keep him away from everyone.so that I can continue playing my drama.
    I would also contact my family and involved them fully so that they could also be worried about me.i enjoyed giving them stress and making them worried.i was enjoying playing with their emotions
    Time passed by and I already made my mind to break this relationship as I didn’t want to be the bad one, so I called my mom to help me out without even caring that my father would be left alone and who would look after him.
    I had already brainwashed her mind and min she arrived the tension started to come between him and my mom. I kept on polluting their mind by passing the personal information they would share to each other.
    Soon i was successful and i broke up the relationship and making my mom became the bad one out.
    But when I realise that he is happily moving on , I would call him at night behind my mothers back and continued the physical relationship so that I could satisfy him and we won’t move on in his life.

    With mom I got my emotional needs met and with gaurav I got my physical desire satisfied at night.
    They both hated each other and I enjoyed taking the advantage of it.
    We didn’t file for the divorce as my residency was still through him so we kept on enjoying our secret relation ship for long time. I also didn’t want him to move on in his life and this was the best way to keep him hooked up with me.
    After my mom went back home .i started going out with friends and that’s where I met Karan. He was giving me attention and literaly chasing after me which enjoyed ,so even while I was married to gaurav I started going out on dated with Karan.

    after literally making him chased me for nearly a year i decided to sleep with him so that i could get over gaurav and move on. we were still married when i started playing with different guys.

    Once karan invited me to some party and when I reached there, he didn’t gave me the attention which I wanted which literally pissed me off.
    i was soo furious that I decided to ignore him completely and when his friend tried to flirt with me I flirted with him back to give the taste of ignoring me.
    I didn’t enjoy the party as there was not much attention given to me and As I was walking Diyar come to me and the old memories got refresh.
    I felt like I have killed two people from one arrow.karan got extremely jealous. And that created a little rift between him and Diyar which were friends aswell.
    Diyar and me started where we left.
    i left karan without even saying anything to him and enjoyed slapping him this way.
    Me and Diyar we both worked hard and partied and together.though I wanted more from this relationship but he was not ready to settled down.i was again started to get very insecure around him and was becoming very possessive.i tried to control him which I was not able to do that and it created some fights.my jealousy was taking its toll so this time he decided to leave me By going out with someone else which literally made me go mental as it affected by self worth.
    Even though so many guys were coming into my life I was never worried about using the condom. It never occurred to take precaution of having the multiple partners.
    Soon, to get over diyar i found Sameer . Though by this time my hatred towards men was at nearly at peek level. I literally treated sameer like slave. Called him when I wanted and once done show him the door.was very rude in my approach towards him and slowly got disinterested in him and started to move on.

    I made my self busy with planning my trip to India for holiday
    but before that I got the news about my ex boyfriend is getting married.

    I instantly got jealous as my marriage broke and I didn’t have any relationship and everyone is happily getting engaged. I called him to congratulate him and was aware of his feeling still for me.
    i flirted, made him talk about our past and was successful in making all the memory refresh. Once I reach to India i created an urge in him to meet me. He could not control his desire and I just played along that.
    i made him held my hand while roaming around and things got more serious which ended up spending the night together
    .i lied to my parents saying that I am going to my friend house for the night spent but ended up with him in a hotel. Though I didn’t have any feeling for him and could not enjoy it but the real pleasure was doing behind the back and stealing him from someone else.

    The biggest frustration for me was to never got organism through intercourse which made me involve a lot in self indulgent and porn.i enjoyed watching porn a lot and enjoy being in my own fantasy world.
    I was highly sexual but was not able to enjoy sex that’s would made me more and more insecure and angry .
    in order to take revenge of not being able to enjoy ,i would seduce the men in my relationships and would literally aroused them and then living him undone which would create frustration in them but it gave me ultimate satisfaction.

    I also was very addicted to psychic and astrologer for the instant fix to feel good about myself .money and power were always been my number one priority to ask. Once an astrologer told me that that wearing a diamond can help with my business and would increase my sale. I instantly took my mother and bought myself diamond by forcing my mom to sell her gold jewellery. Though my mom was not happy with what I was doing but i Tricked her into doing that by making her feel guilty that she doesn’t want her daughter to be happy and succeed which I knew will make her fall into my trap.
    Once i bought the ring I started to show off my diamond to everyone and making people feel belittle about themself. My sister was my number one target , i made sure i made her feel belittle about herself subtly making fun of her as she is not working and putting her down which gave me the sense to feel a lot more superior and better than her.
    Also to that extent brainwashing her mind to create a distance between her and her husband aswell by making her put pressure on him to buy the diamond for her which I knew can be hard as they have two children and only one person is working.
    I have tried to create the distance between them by making her feel incompetent about her self and making her behave and even act like me which I knew will end up their marriage. All this was happening without even her awareness under my mask of being caring and concern good sister.

    By this time I started to get worried about my visa aswell as me and my husband was not living together.
    And I was very much focus on gettin my foundation sorted out so that I can grow my business more stronger.
    I made my family involve this time in looking for a suitable guy for me for marriage. I was not looking for any love just visa to settle down.
    I made my sister put my profile in Shaadi.com and forcing her not to mention anything about me being separated from my husband.
    Soon I had a lot of options to choose from . I found one doctor whom I thought will be good to get married as will be financially secure but when I got my astrology chart matched it came out not a good match so I decided to use as for a while till the time I found someone else.
    I chatted everyday and every nite.
    I was seducing him everyday by simply acting innocent ,by fanning his ego and then saying thing and then not finishing it , flirting and then acting reserve which i knew will ignite the urge in him to want me more and literally enjoyed the feeling of desperateness in people.
    We met once and I acted totally reserved and by this time I met Udbhav Uniyal.
    I never liked Udbhav from starting. He was from newzealand which I had no intention to go so I took him as time pass too. and
    I informed him about my separation with my husband and my frabricated sad story that how I have been victim and been abused by this evil man.I showed him the image of a women who went through a lot in life and still came out as strong person with good Indian traditional values. He completely fall for the image and without any judgment decided to give it a go to this.
    and we started talking to each other everyday. for me he was a backward small town guy whom I thought would be easily able to manipulate.
    I kept on playing with his feeling and made him come to Melbourne to meet me.i seduced him in a way that he desperately wanted to get married to me. though I still had lot of doubts to move to nz but i still wanted to make sure that i have something to fall back if none other options worked out.
    When nothing worked out , I decide to give this relationship a go.
    I said yes for the marriage and we started hanging out together.one day on one of his visit he found out that I had numerous relationship apart from the marriage I talked about which made him upset. He tried lot of time and given me heaps of option so that I can come out clean but I kept on twisting and turning all my words and tried to avoid any confrontation.
    But he kept on insisting which literally started making me hate him a lot.
    I made him loses his control and he became very possessive about me.
    I still kept of flirting in front of him to make him feel a lot more bad about him

    He came more often to Melbourne and during one of the trip he found out that I had more than one relationship which he wasn’t even aware about and instantly made him doubt about his decision.though he gave me many options to share the truth with him but I kept on twisting and Turing everything so that he can forget about about it.
    Time passed my and I kept myself busy in the preparation of the marriage .I also applied for my divorce with gaurav and even forced him to pay half of the money.
    I started to organise things before living Australia and I even forced my brother who was a student and financially suffering to take my car over and continued the monthly instalment so that I could not loose the money once I sold it. I was very much concern about my profit and car that once didn’t even think about how he will be able to manage this on his own.
    I left Australia for good and looked forward for the marriage.
    Our fights kept on growing and after the marriage I started putting him down by commenting on his manhood and that he was good for nothing beause he was struggling financially and not worthy to make a women happy.
    We fighted a lot and soon he realised that the image which I sold was not really me. He couldn’t believe what he was married into. But marriage for him was union of two soul and for ever that’s why he kept on making it work by doing every single thing he could.
    By this time I started accusing that he was cheating on me and kept on brainwashing his mind to create lot on stress on him
    I never cooked for him,or even took basic care of him and the house but expected and force me to do the same for me. I even made him sleep outside the room on the floor and forced him to take medicine for his snoring. I kept on breaking him.
    One day I pushed him so much and made him loses his sense that he hit me for the first time.i knew that day I have completely broken him. I swear and screamed on him and made him feel really guilty about it.
    I made him villain in each and everyone eyes.nobody knew why he had taken just an extreme step. Everyone was more concern of his action. I kept on fabricating the story and pushed him to his limit and our fights started to get more worsen.
    Infact at one point I enjoyed hit by him so I kept on provoking him to continue it.
    I included the refugee center called Shakti and exaggerated them about how I been getting victimised by my devil husband.i also informed that he have also raped me couple of time .His only mistake was he asked me to do when I didn’t wanted him to touch me and for that I used such an heavy word called rape on him.
    I kept on maximising the attention from wherever I could
    .i even called cops on him one day when during one fight he took the knife out which was only to scare me and accidentally it touched me and left a mark on my neck.
    i made him pay by getting him arrested. Cops came and took him out in handcuff and He didn’t gave any clarification and accepted his mistake. Nobody came to know the real truth .
    He himself was too lost that he could not understand what’s really happened and he can fall this low.i destroyed his life by making him arrested and then issuing a restriction order against him.
    I made his work suffered too as I kept him busy talking to me while at work and during our marriage he was issued with two warning letter

    By now I left him and moved to refugee center. But soon found that refugee center was not upto my standard and I started planning again to move back to him.
    I took advantage again of his kindness and made him feel guilty and twisted things in way that made him ask me a chance to give the relationship one more go.and I was successful again in manupilating him.
    But This time I made sure I make myself financially secure so that it will be easy to leave him and don’t have to compromise my standard too.
    I didn’t inform my parents or anyone and moved back with him.
    I made sure I took his help in each and every way to set up my business day and night without giving him much credit.i forced him to sell his car so that he could be dependent upon me.
    And once I had enough saving for the down payment for the apartment,I called my parents and left him with all the bill and loan to pay without even helping him with a single penny.
    I left him during his exams and also when he was physically and financially stable.i made him cry all the time and this is man who didn’t even cry on his father’s death too.
    I gain so much attention and Sympathy from everyone around with the help of my fabricated stories which was equal to winning a lottery ticket. My family was so proud of me for going through so such and still coming out to be more stronger. Nobody knew the real story behind. I made everyone too busy is bad mouthing my husband.

    I was enjoying being the centre of the attention and to gain more respect from people I started telling everyone that how I will be doing celibacy for 1 whole year so that I could work on myself and become more stronger and smart to that I could put to abuse and could never be able to go brought again.
    .even though I was telling everyone about the celibacy but behind the scene I was very much involved in self indulgence. I literally discredited the people who in reality do the celibacy ,I just used the big word as I knew it will add value to my fake mask.

    Nearly after one year i met Aaron through tinder.He was extremely good looking,financially secured which ticked most of the box.i always had a weakness with men who have good body and Aaron was one of them.i was very much into him from the starting and desperately wanted to go out with him.i literally tried to seduced him in each and every way even sleeping with him on first date but after couple of dates he didn’t show much interest in me which made me extremely angry towards him.i was not able to accept the fact that he was not into me and i was not able to satisfy him.
    I was very upset and was only looking for the right time to teach him a lesson.In mean while I wasted no time and found someone else through tinder.His name was puneet and I pretend that i clicked with him instantly. I was only using him so that it will be easier for me to concentrate on game with Aaron much better.
    Puneet was looking for a girl to settle down and i was successful in creating that image so that I can enjoy being chased by him.
    I kept on playing with his feeling and in mean while Aaron started texting me which is what i been waiting for.
    I made plans with him to meet and at the last min when he was all pumped up I would cancel it up. I made sure I created the urge in him by manipulating him this way.
    By this time I was involved in a spiritual group where
    I have already been informed about the energy contamination that can happen easily if not being careful and specially when have multiple partners.i took this information out and when Aaron came to meet me ,i informed him that he is contaminated because of some spirit around him.
    And that’s why I am not going out with him. The shock and the scared look which i got from him was enough to make me feel better.
    I was successful in my plan and was laughing inside to make him feel that way. Though I pretended to be very concern of what he was going through.
    I never informed puneet about the energy contamination which I might have through Aaron and continued having sex with him without condom.
    He still kept on pursing me about becoming his girlfriend but I had no intention and still continued playing the game.
    By now I was also planning to find an excuse to leave him but one day when he took me to meet his friend which I literally didn’t want to, the min I lied my eyes on his friend , the urge to have him was quite strong.i kept on fabricating stories in my mind that he is my soul mate and even though he had a girl friend it won’t matter as we are meant to be together.
    My need and want was much more important than anyother person feeling.
    he never felt the same for me as I felt for him as he was happy with his girlfriend and most important Puneet was his best friend.
    But I kept on pushing myself in front of him and tried to break his relationship so that I can come into the picture. I changed my mind by then and decided to hang on with Puneet for a while to get more information about him and his group.
    I was also fascinated and excited to be part of this rich and succesful people similar to my age as they can add value to my fake status.
    When I knew I made a place in their group then I started to look for a reason to come out of the relationship as I thought I won’t be needing him and if my plan worked I would be able to kick him out ,out of his own group.

    I started to look for a reason to come out of the relationship as I was also scared of the energy contamination which I never informed him.i kept on mentioning him that I am doing celibacy as it was easy excuse and I have used that before too. But when nothing was working , one day while we are chatting I tried to tempt him and seduce him and when he got aroused we started pashing up.
    After some time I pushed him and started blaming him that he tried to take advantage of me even though I mention to him about doing my celibacy.
    I made him upset and without saying much he left and after that we broke up.
    I was free now and I thought would be abe to play game and get the sympathy from this group. As he already had an image of being a Casanova so I would be able to use that and would turn against him.
    I literally tried my best to thrown him out of his group but nothing worked this according to my plan.
    I still continued my game hoping that i would be able to manupilate Varun but nothing happened and he still continued his relationship with his girlfriend. In meanwhile i accepted to give the chance to mickey which was suggested by one of the girls in group.he was rich and successful though he was not my type but I didn’t mind passing me time.
    When once we went out for a movie even though as a friends I hated the part that he asked me to make payment for the tickets. After that I lost my interest in him completely.
    After joining the spiritual group none of the recalculated plan worked and wasn’t even aware that somebody might be looking after the people whom I wanted to destroy.
    Meanwhile Varun and his girlfriend kept on fighting with each other.and I knew it won’t be long before they will break up. One day his girlfriend deleted me from his Facebook page and I created big Hoha about it that I even canceled my Japan trip loosing ,quite a bit of money ,with them just to show that how she is insecure and I could not tolerate that. After coming from trip they both broke up and I had a last laugh thinking that I might have one chance but nothing worked.

    I even made fun for those who took saanyass to work on the liberation from the cycle of birth and death by mentioning that i would also be walking on same line after 10years in my life though I never even knew who actually are they and what really is involved in being a sanyasi. For me it was big word that can gather heaps of attention.Not only that I even took the idols of the God from our temple in my house in India and never ever bothered to dust it or clean it. I bought men around and even involved in self indulgence and not even cared about The idol which was sitting next to my bed .
    i even devalued and disrespected the women body by using it as a seduction to manipulate men.
    i even went to the temples to check out he guys there and once i even found a simple guy name Bharat which I literally tried my best at temple to win him over.i would only go to the temple to look at him and create an urge in him so that he can want me to more.he was a religious guy who went to the temple to Genuinely Pray but I went there to break his attention which was only For one and The Only One.
    And I was successful in that.
    and i still Had the guts to talk about being sanyasi where I didn’t even have the basic respect to the God and could not even bother to take care of the idol and respect people who were really praying and Devoting their life.

    I have been playing games for very long time. And was successful in manipulating and controlling most of the time and In that process Of getting what I wanted I have destroyed many people’s life intentionally.
    Even though I was able to get what I wanted but i was the one who was the looser at the end.

    I was never able to live in present and kept on comparing the one which I had at current phase to the one which I had have in the past which only added the fuel to the fire.
    I never found happiness and kept on falling down in the muck so much that today even though I had it all but I became the most poorest person in this whole world.
    The One person who saw is it all ,The Absolute , The Divine Grace who gave me a sentient to live which I never had ,I even played games of manipulation with The Grace.
    So many hours been spent on me on discourse so that I can come clean but I continued playing my game and even involved the Facilitators in training of this Spiritual group and took me in my spiral.i lied and manipulated them by becoming victim as always so that I can get their sympathy and their attention without changing myself.
    But The Grace still showered the love to me and even to all those whom I have played the games and have emotionally trapped them in my spiral.
    My sister life ,once getting her Grids removed ,completely changed and was able to see things more clearly which she never had. She felt peace with her self and felt so much lighter that all the anger and frustration she been carrying since young washed away. Even her relationship got better with her husband.
    udbhav life also got changed and he was able to let go of the past and was able to move on with his life in much better way.
    My parents relationship got better and could first see the happiness in my father’s face all the time.
    I also felt peaceful and literally started to feel the enjoyment in my life.I been suffering from Insomnia for ages and only once Grace touched me able to sleep peacefully again.
    That Grace who filled me with so much love that I have always Dreamed about ,I also tried to took advantage and knowingly left,when been asked to let go of my fake face and come out clean.
    And i could not let the controller go away and had chosen it over The Grace.
    Today I have lost The most important person in my life ,who took me under her Wings when no body was ever able do that and filling my empty vessel with soo much Unconditional love which is Beyond any words to Describe.
    I love you a lot And will always keep on loving you no matter what and I know what I been thought in last 3 year have bought shift in me and that will keep on growing.
    Its only because of One and The Only ,The Absolute ,who one fortunate day walked in my life so that no one else could get trapped by me and who did also got free.

    Like

    1. “To a Narcissist, it is everyone else who has Narcissistic Personality Disorder.”

      Exactly. I accused my father, my mother, my friends, my spouse, my stepfather, the mayor (don’t laugh). Till I needed to realize that I am that fcking scmbag, not them.

      Like

      1. I’ve been very narcissistic myself, and played the blame everyone else game. It seems so real when you’re doing it and since other people aren’t saints it’s easy to find proof that it is all their fault. It feels justified and there’s a strange power to it even if by doing it you’re actually saying that everyone else has power over you and your life.

        There is a certain liberation in owning the fault, in seeing that the common denominator is you, and perhaps you’re the one with the problem. But you do have to be careful not to fall into the reverse narcissist scenario where you see yourself as the worst person on the planet, as that can be just as addictive and as much of a trap as seeing yourself as surrounded by the worst people on the planet with you as the only good one.

        From the sounds of it you’re not a fucking scumbag, you’ve been through a phase of being that way, you’re owning it and … what comes next?

        Liked by 1 person

        1. Thanks for replying. Nothing comes next to me, I have successfully ruined everything ever mattered to me and everything a human being needs so life would be worth living. What makes the situation worse, is that I created narcissism for fun at 19, so I do have the emotional intelligence to understand what I have done and what has been done to me, by myself.

          I try to solve this about 2000 times a day, and I realize every 2000 times that what I did made the situation even worse. When I do my best in order to avoid it, I realize I made it even more worse.

          I made myself a mentally handicapped person. I am at a point now where I have “split” my relationships. There are two versions of my loved ones in my head (both are true, thanks to me), one is a good one who loves me and whom I hurt terribly and suffer from indescribable depths of remorse and pain, the other one who has hurt and humiliate me, that is the result of MY narcissistic years.

          These people are split, hurt, lost themselves, I love them more than anything but when I try to love them next time they humiliate me and that hurts me. I attack back, and then I’m back at square 1: I regret that even more because I love them more than anything.

          Like

          1. One of the things which I’ve noticed about the narcissists I’ve known personally is that in certain ways they have the ability to strip away all pretense and see beneath the surface veneer of society and people. The narcissistic wound can give a narcissist insight into the workings of the mind, the ego and human nature. This can go several ways.

            Imagine living your life and fashioning yourself solely based on the fantasies of others. Being able to embody that dream even though it may only be on a superficial level.

            Love is guaranteed as long as you live up to someone else’s expectations of the perfect ideal person. Which is actually doable for awhile, almost too easy to do, especially if the other person doesn’t dig deeper than surface appearance, doesn’t listen beyond surface words said, because they don’t want to know that their dream come true has not come true and has smallprint.

            But there is smallprint both for the dreamer and the one embodying the dream – For the narcissist the smallprint means never being seen for who you are but only being seen when you are who someone else wants you to be for them. Never being loved other than for your persona. Which for many a narcissist can be a plus rather than a minus due to a fear that who they are is unacceptable, unlovable.

            Going from being someone’s hero to being their villain stays within the realm of fantasy – A comfort zone for narcissistic tendencies.

            Narcissists tend to know what other people want to hear, what other people want to see in others – they have a sixth sense about the fantasies which others have. It’s a tricky power to have. Do you play the part which others wish for or do you avoid it? Either way there will be consequences which can be painful.

            When you tune into others – you tune yourself out while also using yourself to tune into others. Others can become the way to know yourself and this can mean that knowing yourself is always reliant on knowing others – knowing others can be as harrowing as knowing yourself.

            Taken to the extreme it means that you rely on others for a sense of self – just as they may be relying on you for a sense of themselves, and if you’re aware of that… of how much you influence them and their sense of self… it can be a burden too much.

            You have a deep understanding of being human from the inside out. It’s not really a puzzle which can be solved, it’s the sort of puzzle which just keeps being puzzling no matter how many pieces of it we have.

            Everything you understand about your narcissism, yourself, what you’ve done, who you have been… gives you greater understanding of others and that both heals and hurts more. The more intimately you connect all the pieces, all the people, the more alone you feel, adrift from others who are adrift themselves from you and from others.

            You have a keen insight, but keen insight hurts like hell and is sometimes more than the inner eyes want to see.

            Perhaps the greatest mental handicap is seeing too much, knowing too much, and being aware that all you see and all you know is just the tip of an iceberg – what lies beneath.

            For me personally, relief comes in the form of realsiing that all humans are crazy and messy, and it’s okay to be that way. We all get hurt, feel pain, lash out in pain and hurt others because we’re hurting. There’s room to own it and admit to it and take a pause before reacting.

            We learn from who we’ve been, not just about ourselves but also about others. We can’t avoid being messy, we’re human. We may not be able to avoid making more of a mess. But we can own up to it when we spot it and free ourselves from having to pretend we didn’t make a mess.

            Like

              1. I’ve spent most of my life seeing myself as being rather stupid, in some ways that perspective is quite useful as it keeps the mind open. The moment we think we’re smart… we try to cling to it, compete with others, are afraid others might find a chink in it, we protect and defend until we shut ourselves away in a mental prison.

                Like

  2. I think I am an inverted narcissist. What I usually do is try to derive self-worth and acceptance from others. I even go out of my way for them and buy gifts, mostly to be liked and gain their approval. Once I get their acceptance and approval and they provide that self-worth for me – I stop actually caring about them as much, until I need my next ‘fix’ again.

    It should be noted that I have recently been diagnosed with Bipolar 2. Could I actually be an inverted narcissist?

    Like

    1. Thank you for sharing 🙂

      I think that the most important thing to consider is that you’ve recently been diagnosed with Bipolar 2. I recommend that you discuss your concerns about being an inverted narcissist with your doctor.

      It is rare for someone who is bipolar to also have NPD, and you will most probably be told that what you are perceiving as inverted narcissism is actually part of your Bipolar 2.

      You may find that as you progress with your treatment your behaviour may change, and that you will feel less in need of a fix.

      What stands out for me is that you’re aware that you’re doing this, you’ve observed yourself, you’re concerned about it, and it has inspired self-reflection. Narcissists don’t self-reflect, they look to others to do that for them, and would most likely not be concerned about that kind of behaviour.

      It is also worth considering that what you have described is fairly normal behaviour for human beings. All people have narcissistic tendencies as narcissism is a natural phase of human development. We can all behave narcissistically at times, that does not mean we’re narcissists – NPD involves so much more than that.

      Approval and acceptance, a boost of self-worth, is something most people want. As you pointed out, it’s a fix, and most of us like that kind of fix because things like self-worth tend to fluctuate. It easier to feel bad about ourselves than to feel good about ourselves. And it doesn’t help our self-worth that we’re constantly being bombarded by messages in the media and in society which make us feel like we’re not good enough, haven’t done enough, haven’t got enough, etc. We all tend to develop coping mechanisms to get feel-good fixes. What you’ve described is quite common on social media, one more like, one more follower, one more friend, and the likes, followers, friends, which have already been gotten get overlooked while a new conquest is sought.

      Be gentle with yourself, and focus on understanding your Bipolar 2. Be careful about self-diagnosing. Ask your doctor about your concerns.

      Take care of yourself!

      Liked by 1 person

  3. I have always had feelings, as long as I can remember, that people don’t like me. I feel I have always struggled to fit in. I was not un-popular in school but I wasn’t popular either. I have had many friends over my 42 years. Many have come and gone, few remain. I feel as though most people just tolerate me because they have to. I even feel as though my husband and children feel it’s an obligation to love me. However I do feel as though I am a narcissist. How is this possible?
    My days are consumed with worrying if this person likes me and if they don’t what I can do to make them like me. How can I be more charitable, if I give more will they like me. The person/people always vary but my thoughts never do. I can’t stress enough that my thoughts are consumed by this. It is becoming debiltatingly depressing.
    How can I feel that no one truly likes me, not even me, and still be a narcissist?

    Like

    1. Thank you for sharing 🙂

      Question: Have you been professionally diagnosed with NPD? Have you been to a psychologist, or other mental health professional, to get a diagnosis?

      It sounds to me as though you may be suffering from depression, which is a serious condition that affects many people and you should seek professional advice.

      This is a quick overview – https://www.psychologytoday.com/conditions/depressive-disorders

      Depression can make you have a bleak view of yourself, including deciding that you’re a narcissist when you are not. Feeling that no one likes you, being obsessed with this idea, fixating on it, and feeling that those who love you are only loving you out of obligation, that they are ‘tolerating’ you, are often signs and symptoms of depression.

      Depression can start at an early age, children often suffer from depression and it goes unrecognised and untreated as adults tend to be unaware that children can have it. If you had depression as a child, this may have caused a sense of disconnect from your peers.

      This is a very good and thoughtful article written about childhood depression by someone who has suffered from it – http://www.wingofmadness.com/depression-in-children/

      She includes in her Symptoms of Depression in Children:

      – Low self-esteem or feelings or worthlessness. A child may make such statements as, “I’m bad. I’m stupid. No one likes me.”

      Narcissists can suffer from depression, and a part of what causes the symptoms which everyone associates with NPD, the grandiosity, the entitlement, arrogance, etc, is self-hatred, not self-love.

      I don’t think you’re a narcissist. Please get a professional diagnosis, rather than self-diagnosing yourself as a narcissist or with anything else. The right diagnosis can make all the difference.

      Many people have similar concerns to the ones which you have mentioned, we just don’t talk about it with others and so we all end up thinking we’re the only ones who feel and think that way. We end up feeling alone, caught in our own private hell, ashamed, afraid and lost. Everyone else seems okay, except us.

      Please take care of yourself!

      Liked by 1 person

  4. Hi Ursula,

    I feel I am in a somewhat similar situation and a little desperate for advice. I’m currently in the middle of a divorce, and I have to say a large relief has come over me since that decision was made. This is because I’ve come to realize how much lying my husband has been doing and the complete control over everything in our relationship he has had. Several of those lies I recently discovered, and when I confronted him he only projected back on to me that I was doing the same. I honestly think it threw him into a panic that I was discovering things. Now add all this to that he has recently been seeing therapists, and I just found yesterday that he is buying books on “Splitting with a Narcissist” and other Narcisisst books including “Protecting Yourself While Divorcing a Narcissist” and “High Conflict People in Legal Disputes”. Finding those books has been quite the shock to me, and I’m desperately searching myself to make sure I’m not that person. Everything that identifies a narcissist, I don’t want to be. And if I am, I want to put my all strength toward changing it. We have always thought my mother was a narcissist, so this scares me that maybe there are things I can’t see clearly about myself that come from how we were raised.

    I’ve made so many mistakes in our relationship, I am not without fault here. I made some selfish decisions while being extremely sex deprived by him. I also let our lack of physical interaction almost completely destroy me…my feelings of worth have been next to 0 for years, and I have been extremely depressed. Then add when I found out he had been seeking porn and homosexual interactions on the Internet for years while he had claimed he had “no desire” for sex (lack of testosterone)… it was almost more than I could bear. I left (not nicely) for 3 months, returned briefly, and then left again for another 4. I do regret my behavior during that time, I said things out of anger and frustration and felt that I really didn’t know who he was. It was scary to me.

    Is it possible that he is projecting narcissim on me because it’s something he has found out about himself? I’m just really scared by all of this, and I don’t know what he is going to do. I only need help to get on my feet, I’m not after his money. It represents everything that has always been more important to him. With the books he is reading, he obviously thinks I’m going to try to pull something. I haven’t gotten a lawyer, and our verbal words to each other have been that we are going to try to settle everything outside of court. What should I do from here? Where should I go for help?

    Thank you in advance for reading and any time you may devote to responding.

    -E

    Like

    1. Hi Elizabeth,

      Thank you for sharing 🙂

      I wrote a post the other day addressing the complications which can occur in relationships when the term ‘narcissist’ enters into play. It’s here – https://anupturnedsoul.wordpress.com/2014/11/13/is-john-a-narcissist-or-is-john-the-victim-of-a-narcissist/ – in the post I linked to an article which explores the role that expectations play in relationships – http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/fulfillment-any-age/201411/19-ways-tell-if-you-expect-too-much-in-relationships – the expectations which we have of ourselves and of others. The article is worth a read.

      From what you have shared of your relationship, of you and your partner, and how both of you are handling the situation, and what led up to where you are now, it sounds to me as though neither of you has NPD. You both may have behaved narcissistically, however that is normal, all humans are narcissistic and under certain circumstances, such as being in pain (emotionally, physically, etc), we all tend to become more narcissistic, that does not mean that we have NPD. It simply means that we’re very human.

      Narcissism is healthy for us. It is a natural and normal human trait. Sometimes we express it healthily and sometimes less healthily. Someone may consider us to be a narcissist because of the way our behaviour is affecting them, but that does not mean that we are a narcissist. And even if we are being ‘a narcissist’ that does not mean that we have NPD. Having narcissistic personality disorder is very different from being narcissistic.

      So both of you may see each other as being ‘a narcissist’ because of the way the other has behaved and how you have experienced that behaviour. It is a ‘trendy’ diagnosis right now when things have reached breaking point in a relationship. When you’re caught up in all the complications which are a natural part of a long term relationship, when you’ve both made mistakes, are trying to figure out what went wrong, find reasons, excuses, explanations, there are certain ‘games’ that end up getting played as part of the process.

      Eric Berne wrote an excellent book called ‘Games People Play’ which gives a brief insight into some dynamics which occur in relationships – http://www.ericberne.com/games-people-play/ – on the website there is a sub-section looking into marital games – http://www.ericberne.com/games-people-play/marital-games/

      We all play games in our relationships, some of these are fun and aren’t hurtful or harmful, in some cases they are helpful, it’s when they get hurtful and harmful that we notice them and things can spiral from there. Before you get too caught up in a game of ‘Who’s the real narcissist?’, maybe, since both of you want to work out the divorce in a civil manner without lawyers, you could both go and see a therapist together, if only as a way to clarify the ‘Who’s the narcissist?’ issue. Perhaps with a detached mediator you’ll be able to listen to each other and hear what each of you really feels and thinks, and find an understanding which helps both of you to figure things out in a way that is beneficial to both sides. You may find that neither of you is a narcissist, you’re just two people who once loved each other very much and, perhaps still do but not enough to stay together, and that you love each other enough to let each other go in a respectful manner. It’s worth a try.

      Since your partner is already seeing a therapist (don’t visit his therapist together – find an impartial one, preferably one who knows about NPD and deals specifically with couples therapy) it means (maybe) that he is open to therapy. Are you open to trying it out if only to clarify your own personal concerns about yourself.

      I would hazard a guess that your partner deliberately wanted you to notice that he was reading books on narcissism. Is he really reading them or using them to communicate with you indirectly? Also, perhaps during his therapy sessions he discovered something about himself, his parents, perhaps, like you, he had a parent who he now believes was a narcissist and maybe he’s wondering if he’s repeating a relationship dynamic. There is always more to a situation than what we see. Sometimes our perception is coloured by our mood, feeling, pain, past experiences, etc.

      Since you expressed feeling relieved that you’re finally getting a divorce, I think this is important. Being fearful is natural. You’re taking a leap into the unknown. What happens next? Rather than worry yourself sick over what he will do, perhaps you need to take action. Confront your fears head-on. If you think that perhaps you should get a lawyer, then do it. Just because you hire a lawyer doesn’t mean that the divorce can’t be handled amicably. And you’re not a narcissist for doing it.

      Many of the things which have now become reasons to think others or ourselves may be a narcissist – do not a narcissist make. I think perhaps we jump to that conclusion because we hope that it will bring order to the chaos of life, make sense of a relationship, when in reality, life, relationships, being human is messy. We sometimes like things to be black or white, when they are a mix of both black and white and a million other shades and hues.

      You don’t sound like a narcissist and neither does he, you sound like you’re both very human, which is normal and natural and messy, which isn’t a bad thing at all.

      Hope this helps a bit. Best wishes!

      Like

      1. I cannot even begin to express my appreciation for your response. Thank you from the bottom of my heart. I will definitely check out all of the references you gave me.

        I do not think he intended for me to see the books, I stumbled on them purely by accident on Amazon. We both share an Amazon Prime account (though we have different sign-ins), and I just happened to notice different books that were recommended because those Narcissist books had been purchased on our account. One of my thoughts has been that maybe there is someone else that he wants to see that he is reading those books, i.e. his parents or current love interest to make things appear a certain way? I don’t know. I haven’t told him that I know he’s reading them yet, and I don’t really know how to approach it either, or if I even should. I don’t want to cause more conflict, but it just hurts so bad that he is likely convinced I have NPD.

        Since we live separately now and he has gone into full withdrawal mode from speaking as little as possible to me, I don’t think he would be open to joint therapy. I’ve considered doing therapy alone just for my own sanity, and I still may. I only have access to money that he sends me, though, so I’m not in a situation where I have much money to spend. (I haven’t worked our entire marriage of 6 years, which has been his wish in addition to my struggling with Lyme’s disease.) So that’s also a concern in the matter of my hiring a lawyer, money. I’ve been working hard to find employment since the divorce was decided on, though, and much to my own surprise I have landed two jobs! I have been worried sick that no one would hire me due to having so little experience. I see it as the first step to a healing journey of regaining my self-worth and confidence.

        I think you may have hit the nail on the head with that we both likely aren’t narcissists, just have acted narcissistically at different points in the emotional turmoil we both have been experiencing. I suppose now my biggest question is, should I confront him about the books? Or should I just leave it be? How would you move forward? Whatever I do, I don’t want it to be narcissistic in any way. Since finding all of this, I hardly can look at myself in the mirror without feeling like I’m being narcissistic.

        I deeply thank you for spending time to respond to me. My mind and heart have both been calmed by getting your perspective.

        -E

        Like

        1. If you look at yourself in the mirror (a real mirror or otherwise)… ask yourself if this narcissistic self you see reflected back is actually helpful rather than harmful. Don’t focus only on the perceived negative side of narcissism. Natural human narcissism is good for us, it’s how we can perceive a self who is separate from others. It’s how we define the individual that we are. How we get to know ourselves. This is good for us. Sometimes what is good for us others may not like it because they too are trying to define their individual self – and sometimes (often) we do that through relationships, through our interactions with others – and that is when things get very complicated and lines get blurred as do our individual identities. We get enmeshed int he identities of others, the ones they have for themselves, the ones they have for us for their own, and so on.

          Everything you say about wondering if you’re a narcissist, not wanting to be narcissistic in any way, considering things from the viewpoint of others, from the viewpoint of your partner (which is known as empathy) – is proof that you’re not a narcissist and do not have NPD. But being human you will have a narcissistic side – this is both positive and negative and many shades in between. Be careful that in your desire not to be narcissistic (or appear that way to others) you don’t tip into something which may be harmful to you. You matter, your needs matter, what you want for yourself matters, and sometimes to show yourself your own worth, you have to do something which someone else may judge as being ‘a narcissist’ – that’s when ‘Who is the real narcissist?’ becomes an issue.

          If you’re trying to wipe out all ‘narcissist’ traits and behaviour in yourself – that could be considered something a narcissist would do. Non-narcissists do that too. It comes with the territory of being human and having to interact with other humans. We care what others think of us, sometimes more than perhaps is healthy for us.

          If you’re trying to prove to someone else that you’re not a narcissist – what if they are a narcissist who is using this ‘narcissist’ label as a label which causes the sort of fear that can be used to manipulate others. In your efforts to prove to them that you’re not what they’ve labeled you as being, you end up being manipulated by them through you manipulating yourself. And even if they aren’t a narcissist – their opinion is, the label of ‘narcissist’ is.

          Sometimes you just have to ignore everything and everyone’s opinion, and trust yourself, even when you doubt yourself. If that makes you a ‘narcissist’ so be it. Easier said than done, but sometimes necessary to try doing what is easier said than done. We learn about our strengths and ourselves that way. We learn by doing.

          If your partner thinks you’re a narcissist – ultimately that is his problem, not yours, especially if he doesn’t confront you with his suspicions (which he wouldn’t if he thinks you’re a narcissist because that’s the common advice given for such a situation). Confronting someone with NPD with their NPD is not advisable. However if the person whom you think has NPD does not have NPD… then you’re not giving them a chance to share their side of the story. Maybe this is exactly why he hasn’t discussed this with you. He doesn’t want to hear and acknowledge your side of the story because then he’d have to confront his side of your story together. He may not be ready for that. Maybe he needs to believe this. Maybe you need to let him believe whatever he wants to believe, truth or lie or something that falls within a grey area because of the grey area that a relationship in turmoil is in. That’s a tough call. Sometimes people are not ready to hear both sides of the story because they haven’t been listening to their side, they need time and space to do that, to indulge narcissistically in their side and only their side of the story before they can hear anything else – especially your side.

          Relationships, especially the intimate kind, bring all our hidden demons to the surface. Facing them is sometimes the last thing we ever want to do because we’re afraid of what we’ll uncover and discover. If he had a bad childhood from which he’s been hiding… his relationship and the stage it has reached with you may be a powder keg for him.

          With regards to letting him know that you’ve seen the books he is reading. This is also a tough call. Surely he knows that you can see his Amazon account. Just as you know that you can see his and he can see yours.

          If I was in your place, I would keep quiet about what I know. For now. I would say nothing about the books. I would file it away as information. Confronting him if he isn’t ready to discuss it might confirm what he fears. For him it might mean that you’ve invaded his space and he’s not willing to own up to the fact that the space was a shared one, he knows it but is pretending not to know it and using your knowledge of it for something going on with him that is his problem and not yours (even if it involves you) which he wants you to make your problem so he doesn’t have to be responsible or accountable for it. Again this is narcissistic but not necessarily proof of NPD.

          Now, he could be trying to get you to confront him – all the more reason not to do it. If he wants to be confronted… he should instigate it more openly and honestly and not use complicated covert tactics. Nothing will be resolved this way, it will just keep spiraling.

          You could buy some books of your own, maybe the same ones as the ones which he bought and wait and see, wait for him to use your joint account and notice your purchases – but that is playing a game of cat and mouse. Those sort of games are not usually worth the effort unless they suit your character.

          I would, if I was you, keep doing exactly what you are doing. Let your self guide yourself. Learn as you go, acknowledge that it’s scary, because it is, then keep going. You’re discovering some exciting things… that’s your goal. Keep leaping into the unknown and trusting yourself. Some of the leaps will hurt, some won’t. Don’t let the hurt blind you to the new insights. Two jobs! That’s awesome and frightening – you have to live up to the challenge and you can do it just by giving it a go, see what happens.

          If you can’t afford a therapist, there are options, support groups, online, offline. Find something which you feel comfortable with, with just enough discomfort to push you further towards your future rather than so comfortable that it drags you into the past.

          What about legal aid? Or something along those lines. I can’t offer practical help or links here. I had to hire a lawyer to deal with my NPD mother and deal with the costs as best as I can – I factored in what it would cost me if I didn’t and went with the lesser of two evils. Usually whatever question we have, someone else has always already asked it and there is info available online for free which might lead to practical help that doesn’t require a big bank account.

          If you have a question, ask it, research and find what you need in whatever form is available. We tend to find what we need when we need it, and if we don’t perhaps we don’t need it.

          Always take care of yourself first, and trust yourself. Everything in your life begins and ends with you – that may sound narcissistic, in some ways it is, but is it harmful or helpful?

          Best wishes!

          Like

  5. Hello Ursula 🙂
    I found your blog while googling inverted narcissism. I think it is so lovely that you have shared your story with the whole world, and that you read what your readers say and help them out with their stories of narcissism. I’m from a family where everybody is so extremely narcissistic that they think they are perfect and in no need of any advice or personal improvement. For me, in this climate, to find a blog like yours and to know FOR SURE that yeah, I’m right and not just engaging in self pity is so relieving that I can’t tell you. I’m a narcissist who wants to be a normal girl again, so words like yours are like medicine to my aching soul. Thank you for what you do here, it is much needed and much MUCH appreciated. Lots of love, luck and wishes for your happiness! 🙂

    Like

    1. Thank you 🙂

      We tend to accept the reality which is offered to us in our environment, especially in our family environment. If everyone is doing something, we do it too. Until that time when we see that there are alternative realities, then we start to question things. Our questions open us up to the possibility that we have a choice, one which suits us, who we really are.

      If you grow up in a narcissistic environment, a family of narcissists, then being narcissistic, being a narcissist, is what is normal and not being a narcissist is considered weird. If being narcissistic does not suit us, then we go in search of something which does suit us.

      We go in search of ourselves, and our reality.

      That search is one of the hardest and most rewarding quests in life. Through the process of it, the journey we take, we discover who we are. The destination is not as important as the steps we take along the way. Those steps is how we get to know ourselves. How we become a friend to ourselves.

      All humans have narcissistic traits, as narcissism is a natural phase of human development. In a narcissist these natural traits are exaggerated, taken to an extreme. There is a healthier version of these traits, which is necessary to us as individuals.

      For instance – Perfectionism – Narcissists want to be perfect, to them this is a goal to achieve. This often drives them crazy. Underneath the mask of – I am perfect – is someone who is constantly worried that a flaw will be found in their mask of perfect. They often deal with this by pointing out what is wrong with everyone else, that way as long as everyone around them is less perfect than them, they can feel ‘safe’ in their perfect persona. However they are also always looking at others in fear, envious that someone else may be more perfect than they are. It’s a vicious cycle in which they are stuck.

      However perfectionism has a purpose – it’s not a goal to be achieved, it’s an ideal which is there to inspire us. It’s like the Sun shining in the distance, beckoning us forward – but we’re not actually meant to get to the Sun as it would incinerate us.

      We’re not supposed to be perfect. Being perfect is static. We’re supposed to keep evolving and our ideals inspire our evolution.

      So if you’re a narcissist, or think you may be one, and you don’t want to be one, look at yourself with gentleness. Look at the traits and behaviours which you think make you a narcissist and try to understand their purpose. Explore the trait, the negative side of it, the positive side of it, and the areas where negative and positive sides blend.

      Ask yourself questions and let yourself answer.

      Such as – Why do I do that? Why do I think that? Why do I feel this way?

      Explore yourself, don’t be afraid to find flaws – the things which narcissists consider flaws, imperfections, are some of the most beautiful aspects of ourselves, our individuality, our talents.

      One of the main spurs of a narcissist is to be who they are not, to choose a persona and then strive to become it. The antidote is to choose to be who you are, as is, to accept the person who you are and learn about yourself as you are. To be the person and not a persona.

      That can be challenging in a world which keeps telling us that who we are as is is never good enough – narcissists aren’t the only ones who chase perfection as a goal, and build themselves an ivory tower on top of which they feel safe, superior, to throw stones at other people. Our ideals when they become a goal can turn us into narcissists or make us vulnerable to narcissists.

      Our ideals when they inspire us, take us on an adventure.

      Make sure that your quest to be a normal girl, is something which inspires you to embrace yourself, get to know yourself and all that you are. Being who you are, accepting yourself, is a wonderful experience. An experience which allows for everything, including not always liking who you are or accepting yourself. We have many opposites within us, so we both love and hate ourselves, and that friction between opposites can live together within us, it is all a part of us, it evolves us.

      Take care of yourself, be gentle with yourself. Best wishes 🙂

      Like

  6. I have just come out of a 3 years relationship with a man. The relationship was very strange indeed…since the first months together I felt like something was not right, I could not trust him fully. He had just left his wife from a 7 years marriage, almost over a day he seem to have lost all the feelings for her and instead saw me as the new solution to find the happiness in his life. He convinced me that he never actually even loved her, that he married her for bureaucratic reasons. Also he described her as a horrible person, controlling and that they never had anything in common. As much as I had a warning sign in my head, I was naive….he was so charming, I fell for him so fast. The divorce from his wife was a hell…she was verbally insulting me in front of him and on the phone, but I could see how he never stood up for himself neither for me. He was too interested of not loosing his money and belongings in the divorce, so he wanted to keep her happy. This went on almost through a full year…

    During this time he forced a relationship…he wanted me to live with him…sleep in his and his ex’es bed…I felt very awkward…and when he only after some months told me “I love you”, I had to react. I told him that it was not normal…that I liked him and cared for him, but that we did not have to rush things like that. I guess he traumatized me in a way….I almost felt more empathy for his wife than he did, until he twisted the reality and made him into the victim. And as she came of so verbally aggressive towards me (I understand the woman, she just lost her husband over day to some person he barely knew). But I stayed….I don’t know what happened..but three years passed. And I never officially wanted to “announce” our relationship, no matter how much he wanted to. During these years things happened that shocked me…I could see how he would put all his concern and effort on acquaintances…people who really did not play any role in his life…but he needed to make them like him. He cared more about how they felt and what they thought of him…then his own family..(I would support him in any attempt to show his love for his family…he has almost neglected him most of his life)..he did not have real friends. His “friends” were women who he met on online dating… I know I am the “energetic one” in a relationship, I wanted us to “bond” through activities together, hobbies, meeting new people…anything. However, he was obsessed with work…internet…

    Then suddenly he would get this “burst of energy” and enthusiasm for doing new things…and soon enough I would realize that this was due to that some new student (girl of 19-23 years, he was at that point 36) came to work and now he wanted to spend all his time with her and her girlfriends. Suddenly he who never wanted to go to the beach or go for a walk with the dog, would take the dog and pass by the full length of the beach only to find this girl and her friends…then he would suck their admiration to the dog and take the advantage to spend some hours on the beach with them.

    In the same time I would be at home, just found out that my father went to hospital, and be so confused about what the hell was going on with the man that was telling me he “loved me”…when he could behave like this. It disgusted me. And I reacted in that way towards him….for a long time…and I lost all my trust. I could never see him sitting on the computer again without thinking that he is flirting with some woman or too young girl for him online… He had these ups-and downs…there were periods when he would just go ice cold…I could look at him and try to talk but he would not even see me…rather he would smile and tell me to calm down…that he did not understand why I was upset….and that “as we are not officially in a relationship” he is a free man to do what he wants….. then when I decided to leave him, he would come running after telling me that I am everything he ever wanted in a woman…and that he would change…. and I believed him.

    During all of this time I did not know what NPD was. I had no clue. One day I sat down on the computer and searched for “my partner does not show any empathy” and there it was….a list of characteristics…where all of them were so accurate it made me shiver. Not knowing better, that day I showed the articles to him…the tests…the signs…and after a while he said “wow…this actually sounds like me”. I was shocked…as I did not expect this reaction..I had read that this was very rare if a person really suffers from NPD. After a lot of begging from my side…he did go to see a therapist who told him that “you are not a narcissist, you just need a partner who is lower in hierarchy than you…and that is not on the same or higher level”…after this…my (ex)partner went on one of his “peaks” again…started obsessively to claim that he is a free man and started online dating, watching pornography…avoiding me…watching me cry and walking right by…never wanted to talk..and when I did he would say “I don’t understand”.

    So…this is how 3 years passed. Don’t get me wrong…there were some beautiful moments…some of the most wonderful of my life…these periods were very short..and mostly came after his “peaks”. During these periods he would open his heart to me and call me his angel…his sunshine…I would see how he would try to be the best person that he could….

    In the end of the 3rd year when I could see that he was coming into one of his “typical apathetic” periods I asked him what was going on…and that I felt like he was being so cold…I told him if he wants to finally solve everything and be in a real relationship with me…he would have to go to see another psychologist…and he did.

    The same day that he came home from his session, he had decided that I was not the woman that he wanted to spend his future with. He told me that she asked him some questions which made him realize many things….and he told me not to ask me anything about his session as he wanted to keep it for himself. By this time I only told him that I am happy for him if he feels better and that the therapy is helping him see things more clear…

    The more he went to therapy the more he grew resentment towards me, he told me that he regrets that he was not “stronger” in our “relationship” and that I was controlling. That he never loved me. I did not understand anything. While I was still in the same apartment he started chatting, skypeing, dating, watching pornography…everything in front of me. I was begging, crying to talk…to understand what had happened…but he refused. He acted like he has never been happier in his life. I went to talk to the same psychologist that he went to…it was a woman. On the few sessions that I went there i spent most crying my heart out…I have never felt so sad in my life. I saw how I had become dependent on this man. She told me “.xx..(my ex) is a good man…but he had a hard childhood…and why did you never want to make your relationship official?? So I tried to explain…but I realized as I was talking that it all seemed so small in the big picture…I told her that it is hard to explain, but that I did not trust him as he behaved in the strangest ways when it “really mattered”…She looked at me as if she really did not understand…and then she told me. “This is unofficial…I am not talking to you as a therapist now…If I was your sister..I would leave him, go somewhere where you can be taken care of, you will only hurt here….he will not change his mind, you and him have completely different realities…they don’t match”.

    …two weeks later I left the apartment and moved to my parents, who live in another country (4 hours away). During the small contact that he had with me he told to me in a way which made me think I had done something horrible… worst than cheating…as if I was manipulative, controlling, negative…and that for every day that I am not with him, he feels stronger and with better self confidence (I always supported him in that, I wanted him to love himself from inside and not just act like it towards people who did not know him!). For more than a month I cried, begged, accused myself, told him I am sorry for “keeping distance” to him and for not believing in that he loves me…that I would never do that again if we could only talk this through…if I hurt him, it was never my intention…that inside…I do love him…I always did…..but it did not help. For the last 10 days, I am staying in “no contact”… and trying to become stronger…even though I feel so dependent..and I cannot stand to think how he probably discarded me as his ex-wife..I know that he has met a lot of women since I left…through online dating pages….he did it also during the two weeks which I lived with him after he broke up with me…

    I have been to therapy myself (I should have done it years ago) to solve my own problems of insecurity….I have read over 20 books on self-improvement..I have meditated….been self-critic..everything to understand what is going on…what happened these years?…it has been 2 months ago since the breakup…and I don’t understand anything….neither do I see the future….I still love him…and inside of me I hope he contacts me…I hope he realize that we could solve this together….but realistically…I think that he has found the strength and justification of his behaviour in this last therapist….somewhere in my head I am thinking that she does not understand that he is victimizing himself….and she is inflating all the dangerous sides of him… one of the times I spoke to him he also told me “you know, it seems to be you who are the narcissistic here”. It scared the life out of me…suddenly I started imagining these last 3 years of our lives from a different perspective…am I manipulative?? Was I controlling?? The fact that I did not give up after he broke up with me and instead begged him for almost 5 weeks…is that what a narcissistic person would do?? It made me do a lot of different online tests for NPD…on the questions where I have to answer if I think I am “something special” I honestly have to say that I do not like to be mediocre…I do like to be different and special. I also like to look the best I can…for myself..but my whole life I have heard people tell me “i am too emotional” and too “emphatic” and that I should think of myself more…so…I don’t know.

    I am so happy I found this page…whoever had the time and patience to read this post…I would be so grateful for any comments….regarding my past relationship, my ex-partner, regarding me….regarding NPD…and if this sounds like a typical story of a person with NPD.

    Negative or positive….I just wish to see the true reality. What happened…who is he…who am I?

    Thank you.

    Like

    1. Thank you 🙂

      In my opinion, you are not a Narcissist and do not have NPD. You do not express yourself like a Narcissist, your words do not contain the signatures of NPD speak.

      Your words do however contain the signature of someone whose mind and heart has been messed with by someone who does have NPD. One of the favourite accusations of a Narcissist to their victims is to call them the Narcissist. And the victim of a Narcissist tends to end up wondering if they are indeed the Narcissist. The level of self-doubt with which he has managed to infect you, the soul-searching which you are doing about it, the research which you have undertaken to find out, and the act that you are willing to find out either way… tells you everything you need to know about who the real Narcissist is. And it is not you.

      You might find this article helpful – http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evolution-the-self/201404/the-vampire-s-bite-victims-narcissists-speak-out

      Narcissists do sometimes ask people if they are a Narcissist, but the question is never genuine and they are being manipulative with it.

      When your ex went to see the first therapist – was it your ex who said that the therapist told him that he wasn’t a Narcissist or did you hear it directly from the therapist?

      As for the way your ex reacted to the possibility that he was a Narcissist, recognising himself in the list of traits, he was probably flattered by it. Some Narcissists, more often male ones than female ones, are actually quite proud of being labeled as Narcissists as for them this means that they are special and superior, it confirms it for them. There is a certain cachet to it, like being notorious. It appeals to their vanity and ego. It inflates their identity and need to feel powerful. Some may even study NPD to become better Narcissists, they are very paradoxical people.

      With regards to the second therapist – I think you had some instincts about her and her sessions with your ex, and I think those instincts are correct. That was a rather strange thing for her to say to you, about talking to you unofficially as if she were your sister rather your therapist.

      When something doesn’t make sense, when it seems illogical and the rational mind can’t make sense of it, chances are there is a something not quite right about it and it is best to trust your instincts and intuition. Even if you doubt yourself. Our senses often pick up on things which our mind misses, and we get a funny feeling of being uneasy but can’t put our finger on what it is that is unsettling us.

      Having NPD, being a Narcissist, and being Narcissistic are very different. So be careful when taking online tests for NPD because the questions may be misleading.

      Narcissism is a phase of human development which we all pass through as we are growing up. It’s the point when we become aware of ourselves as a unique individual. It’s when our ego forms and takes shape, and we become conscious of it. All humans are Narcissistic to a degree, it is a natural and normal and healthy trait. We all see ourselves as being different from others, we enjoy seeing ourselves as special in some way, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. It is part of what spurs us on to create, to compete, to interact, to share ourselves, our talents and abilities, to improve ourselves, learn and grow and take on challenges. It gives us a sense of self, as being separate from others, it makes us proud of ourselves, and it’s a part of our lust for life and living. It is also when we begin to form boundaries.

      So if you find Narcissistic traits in yourself, this simply means that you are a healthy individual.

      Being a Narcissist, having NPD, is a personality disorder that occurs when a person gets stuck in the Narcissistic phase of development and does not move on to the next phases of development. It is something natural which becomes distorted, amplified, and disordered.

      This is partly why it can be difficult to distinguish between someone who is being Narcissistic and someone who is a Narcissist and has NPD. We can all relate to the traits of Narcissism, so we don’t think there is anything particularly unusual about the way that a Narcissist behaves, at least not superficially or when we first get to know them. In fact they often seem to be the ideal human, and we may admire them for their confidence, their charm, their belief in themselves and how great they are… sometimes we even wish we could be more like them… it’s only after we get to know them better that we realise they are not who they appear to be.

      The way that a Narcissist feels ‘special’ is very different from the way that you or I or anyone else feels special. They want to be and see themselves as superhuman, a superhero, immortal, endowed with magical abilities. They see themselves as superior, a genius, without any proof to back it up. They suffer from the Smartest Man (or Woman) in the Room (in the World) syndrome (the Dunning-Kruger effect). They think everyone else is an idiot, and they are contemptuous of others, and hostile if anyone criticises them or disagrees with them. Theri version of themselves, and everyone else, and of reality is the only version which exists.

      So the Narcissistic traits which humans have, which we can all relate to, are exaggerated, distorted, and rigid in someone with NPD/a narcissist.

      There is a good article I read recently, it’s not specifically about NPD, but it does show the difference between mind sets – http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/ambigamy/201405/why-some-people-will-never-learn

      Falling in love with a Narcissist is very easy, they often seem to be our ideal partner. They have something about them which is larger than life, unreal. They tend to be very image conscious and they work very hard on making an impression on others. They always have stories to tell which are fascinating. They come across as very exciting, their life is always filled with drama, high highs and low lows, and being in a relationship with them can feel like being on a funfair ride. It keeps your adrenalin going. They also tend to make those they are with feel very special and important to them. They focus all of their attention on you and want to know everything about you. They need you, they need all of you, everything about you they want to own for themselves. When they ‘fall in love’ it is always intense and passionate, a magical union, fated, meant to be, like something out of a Hollywood movie. And during the early stages of the relationship it can be very wonderful and addictive. When it’s good it is amazing, a dream come true, a fantasy fulfilled… but when it’s bad, and it always gets bad at some point, it is a nightmare from which you feel that you can’t wake up.

      Your ex sounds like he may be a Somatic Narcissist – there is some information about that here – http://thenarcissisticlife.com/sexual-attitudes-of-a-narcissist-sex-and-the-narcissist/

      Being manipulative and controlling in a relationship is something everyone does a bit, but for those with NPD it is a consistent pattern of behaviour. Even when they leave – do the discard – they leave a hook behind in the person they have left, and still continue to manipulate and control. Don’t take the Discard personally – everything that a Narcissist does is all about them, as is everything that they say. Their accusations are all about them too, and they often reveal more than they would like to about themselves in their criticisms and accusations. The Discard is all about a Narcissist protecting themselves, but they always lay the blame for it on the person they leave, and they do it in such a way that makes you want to have one more chance with them. They leave you… but they never let you go, or at least they never want you to get over them and move on, they want you to spend the rest of your life not getting over them and wishing they were still in your life. This feeds their ego.

      You may find these blogs very helpful:

      http://letmereach.com/

      http://n-continuum.blogspot.co.uk/

      Take care of yourself, be gentle with yourself, and give yourself time to heal 🙂

      Like

      1. This is the first time that someone with experience took time to read my story and gave me advice. Thank you so much.
        I have now read the pages which you gave me the links to and I will also read more information on the blogs.

        To answer your question regarding the first psychologist that he visited…I never met him, but my ex partner told me all that this man had told him during the session. From the start he had told him that my ex partner does not have NPD as he would not be searching counselling for it, however, he did tell him that he has a strong “ego” and that he would be happier in his life with a woman who was more “submissive”. He told him that as both me and my ex were so “strong” people, we would always be in a roller coaster -relationship as no one would give up. Anyway, at that point my ex did not take his advice too seriously and we continued our very distant “relationship” for another while.

        The reason why I kept my distance to him is because I felt hurt. I am a person who would forgive and forget many things, but with him, whenever he did something cruel he not only did not want to give a sincere apology, but most of the time he could not see what would be wrong with his behaviour. This made every mistake that he did very dragged out…and I could never really forget it and trust him again , as I really did not believe he meant it (as he did not even understand what was wrong with it) in the first place. So, our relationship was mostly based on him trying to act as if nothing was wrong and as if we should be in a relationship…while i kept my distance saying “no, you say you love me but I cannot see that”. And sure, he would do very romantic and great things in the moments when I was ready to give up on him….and this way he would give me hope again. Besides the dreamy first year of our “relationship”, the other two years were based on this.

        I early noticed how he would get very different when around women, from changing his voice to contradicting himself. Afterwards if I ever asked him why he did it, he made me appear as paranoid, jealous or controlling. The fact is, most times when I confronted him with facts, he would laugh and tell me it is not true. So I started saving evidence, or preparing myself for potential situations in which I could imagine that he would act in his typical hypocrite way. I would ask him what he personally thinks about so and so, or a special subject….and then during an encounter with an acquaintance (female) I would watch him stand there and say the complete opposite! These times I would afterwards show him my “proof” and he would only dismiss it, telling me to relax and not be so black and white. Yes, I have been black and white most of my life about some principles of life…like loyalty, friendship, justice…etc. and I would always try to make him see the importance of him also for himself expecting this in his relationship with people…not only to be happy with “shallow” relationships with people who he did not see any “long-term” potential for….don’t get me wrong, I believe everyone should be treated with respect and people should be kind to each other…but what I found so shocking was his “need” to please and charm people who he never met before, or who he recently got to know…over his family or relationship. There were so many other things that I found odd…his incapability of looking into my eyes when he spoke to me….or how he always seems to twist everything someone says to apply to him and from there open the door for him to speak about his life and opinions on the matter.

        He is a man who gets all his self confidence from “what” he is, and not “who” he is. Physically, I would honestly say that he is quite bellow the average looking man, but he has an incredible ability to pull people in and charm them. In his point of view (and from his brother and sister) since the first day he saw me, he thought I was out of his league. Physically he even told me after he broke up with me that “I will surely never find such as attractive person as you in my future partner,,,but physics is not all”. It made me feel really bad. Since i met him I always took pride in the compliments he gave me regarding my “sunny and happy” personality, rather than my looks. This is how my family and friends see me, and this is what I too think is most important. But by saying these things to me, and afterwards by going on online dating pages to find women to replace me….he broke my heart. In my deepest sadness I told him that he must be truly desperate to be so obsessive about finding a new woman online, hw was filling the computer with pictures of random women from these pages and I repeatedly commented on their physics and his desperation. Evidently I was only jealous…but he turned this against me and told me “you are so shallow, I knew I did right to break up with you”. It made me feel even worse. I guess I dug my own grave…

        .
        He is also a very intelligent man, he has power through his work. And another problem in this story is that I met him through work….he is/was my boss (at the moment i don’t even know if he wants me to come back to work, I am in a situation waiting for him to make up his mind…and sadly, that work means everything to me…which he knows) when we met and at first he offered me the job due to my enthusiasm, ambition and passion for it. Later i found out that he had started to get feelings for me. I helped him and his company a great deal through these 3 years, I changed it to the better, not because I am something special, I am not, rather I put my soul in it. It was always my passion. Although it took him a long time to confess it, he did eventually tell me that I made the business into a better place. Without going into too much detail…the work that we do is “coach” people…99% girls in the ages 19-25. My input in the business was to really focus on offering these people the professional coaching which they came for and doing so equally for everyone. This was the motto I followed. Before I arrived, he always chose to prioritize the girls which admired him the most, or that he felt most attracted to (his type of attraction), and rather than offering them what they came fore, he would spend all his private life and effort on spoiling them in any way possible.

        So living and working with this man…I saw so many things that did not make sense. And I spent 3 years confronting him. Painting it up for him to make him see his biased behaviour. But, this only made him see me as controlling and manipulative. Also after the first period passed, I started losing my patience with him as I could see how he over and over again repeated the same mistake, but only in different situations. He would bend on his own rules at work for certain girls…and when I told him he would say “don’t be so strict, why does it matter, relax” and he would laugh and not care at all about how unprofessional it would seem for the rest of the people, and how hurt i would get by this personally. I did not hurt due to the specific situation per sé, rather for the knowledge of how it was actually he who made the rule in the first place and thought is was important…until he decided that for some- is was not. If I said “well ok, if it does not matter, we should all be allowed to do so and so…he would get very angry. During these period I would distance myself from him emotionally as much as I could…I was crying and promising myself that I would never trust him or forgive him…but the time came when he would come back and say something which would give me the hope again.

        If you now look at this situation…and imagine this happening for 3 years, and then imagine him going to his last psychologist telling her about our relationship…me “never wanting to be in a close and official relationship with him” and that I always “complained about choices that he made” and that there were “always arguments”, ” I was criticizing peoples physics” and “things did not work out, we are too different” From his perspective…I would believe him. Who wouldn’t. Especially as he is so calm, and acts very sensible, honest and kind. Anyone who does not know him closer would think he is the most wonderful and kind man.

        In reality, me and this man have an incredible amount of things in common…if I only knew how to handle the problems which we faced, maybe we could have had a real relationship. I blame myself for reacting the ways that I did…the explosions of emotions…I wonder if it made him feel good to see me like that. Because, had I not actually cared for him, I would have never really cared for his behaviour neither. But as he truly seems to be unconscious of all of this…I appear to be the “crazy” one, while he is the rational and calm guy, innocent of my “manipulation” and his psychologist believes every word of it. There is nothing I can do. All of this is of course magnified in all my attempts of begging for weeks after he broke up with me and suddenly cut me off from his life as if I was the virus who caused all the misery in his life. His view of me changed from white to black over day. I used to be “his angel that made every persons life happiness and heaven” (his words only some months ago) to “I never loved you, I was only confused, and you were so cold and made me believe that I was very sick”.

        The strangest thing in all of this is that after all…I only wish that we could have had one chance to work through this together. If someone had only warned me and told me “this is not the way to solve this”, “if you want to keep him, do this”. Or, maybe that day when he went to see this last psychologist, I should have gone with him. In both her and his eyes, I seem to be blaming him for everything. But the only thing that I am trying to do is to find clarity…the truth. Can I do something for our relationship to ever work? Now…can I change his mind about me?

        I am doing no contact for 11 days, how do narcissistic people usually react to No contact? I am hoping that time will make him realize how much i love him and how ready I am to solve this together. But something tells me that if he during these 3 years did not see what was happening…what would make him suddenly “see” the truth now…maybe the fact of that I am not in his life or work anymore at all?

        I am sorry for this long story…but I was hoping that this would give some more information so that it would be easier to judge from the outside…and hopefully from your own experience and knowledge you could give me some advice on what seems realistic in the point in which I am now….at the moment, all I wish is for him to give “us” a real chance. How do I go about this if he truly is a person with NPD?

        Again, thank you heartfelt for taking time to read and give advice, I really have no one else who could offer any advice regarding my situation…

        And thank you for a great page.

        Like

        1. The reason I asked about whether it was your ex or his therapist who told you that he did not have NPD was because the diagnosis sounded more like it came out of the mind and mouth of a narcissist who may have researched NPD on the web and found the perfect excuse for why he doesn’t have it – that someone with NPD would never go into therapy, especially not for NPD. A psychologist would never diagnose NPD based on whether someone came to them seeking treatment for it or not. That is an observation which psychologists have made about those with NPD, one which is commonly known by anyone who searches for information about NPD, it is not a means of diagnosis of NPD.

          Are you certain that he even went to see the therapist.

          That whole thing about having a strong ego and needing a submissive woman sounds like NPD BS. Would a psychologist really say that. Either your ex was lying about seeing a psychologist, or the psychologist was not particularly a good one or wanted to get rid of your ex and did not want him as a patient, or, which is very likely, your ex twisted what the psychologist said to suit him and the result that he wanted, which was not to go into therapy.

          It’s interesting to note that the therapist which your ex agreed to see was female and the one he decided not to see and whose advice he chose to ignore was male.

          The more you explain about your ex, the more he sounds like a narcissist. What you have shared about yourself and the way you felt about him, especially not trusting him and always having reservations… your instincts and intuition are strong and screaming loudly, warning you. You were right not to trust him, and he proved that again and again. If you get back with him, it won’t get better, he won’t change for the better, in fact he’ll probably get worse because he’ll see your getting back with him, taking him back, as a sign that you will put up with however he wants to treat you. You’ll forgive and forget and let him do it again and again.

          The fact that he has admitted as seeing you as being out of his league… that is not a compliment when it comes from a narcissist. It is in one way, in as much as he pointing out your qualities, showing you what makes you special. However when a narcissist tells you that you are special, better than them, or anything along those lines, it means that at some point they are going to try and take away from you everything that you have which they admire about you. He wants to drag you down from the pedestal he has put you on. Those with NPD are very twisted in their approach to love and relationship.

          The person you should be talking with, and whose blog you really need to read is Kim Saeed of http://letmereach.com/ – she has personal experience of being in a romantic relationship with someone with NPD. She has learned the hard and painful way that no matter how much you love them, care for them, go out of your way to have a relationship with them, they will hurt you and they will ruin the relationship and blame you for its failure. Leaving you feeling like you failed and if only you had another chance, this time you might love them enough, prove your love to them, and everything would be wonderful. You should not have to prove your love to anyone.

          Kim has experience and expertise, and is very empathic, helpful, generous and kind. She gives great insight and helps to clarify confusion. Please check her blog out and her many posts on what it is like to be in a relationship with someone with NPD and how to deal with them, and with all the emotions and thoughts connected with it. I’m certain that you will find many answers to your questions there. She also does personal consultations and interacts on her blog.

          Please take care of yourself, listen to your intuition and instincts, trust yourself. And speak to Kim!

          It’s a

          Like

          1. “the hard and painful way that no matter how much you love them, care for them, go out of your way to have a relationship with them, they will hurt you and they will ruin the relationship and blame you for its failure. Leaving you feeling like you failed and if only you had another chance, this time you might love them enough, prove your love to them, and everything would be wonderful. You should not have to prove your love to anyone.”

            It is a very hard reality to face. Thank you for your time to read my story and thank you for your words. I needed to read that…and I need to face this truth.

            I will definitely go to Kim’s blog, thank you for the advice!

            All the best to you!

            Like

            1. Thank you 🙂

              Yes, part of it is indeed a hard reality to face. However there is another side to it, and that is knowing that your instincts, your intuition, and you, were, have always been, and are right. And that those who made you feel that your reluctance to trust him was somehow a sign that there was something wrong with you were wrong. They made you doubt yourself because you saw a reality which they refused to face. It is an experience which has given you an important lesson – trust yourself.

              You deserve to be with someone who makes love effortless and a joy to share!

              Take care of yourself. Best wishes!

              Like

  7. Thank you for your articles. Very insightful, and I relate with a lot of what you describe. When I started to read about personality disorders, I began first with borderline, moved to sociopath, discovered narcissistic and felt…yes that was like how I was. I asked myself this question every time. “Do I have BPD, am I a sociopath, am I a narcissist?” I began to answer in the affirmative that I at least had a very unhealthy way of doing life, if I did not have an outright personality disorder. I greatly appreciate the personal experience that has been written in this blog, because I relate to so much of it. I feel compelled to talk about it.

    I had a terribly unhappy childhood being ignored, basically. What I remember of it anyways. I know that my mother dislikes her children and grandchildren, we all know it, I am just not in denial about it for a lot of reasons now. At 8 I knew that nobody loved me, and I was suicidal at 12 because of what I was experiencing, or not experiencing, and it really did only get worse from there: abusive relationships, sociopathic family members telling me to go kill myself, self harm, suicide idealization; man, I really hated who I was inside and so did everyone else. I could not get close to people because I felt there was something inherently defective inside me, even at a very very young age, and so I did everything in my power to be what my family wanted, (in adulthood, this shifted to me being what my abusive friends and partners wanted me to be, I had no real sense of self) even though their versions of who I was wasn’t me, and were actually really awful. That assigned person was validated in ways that being myself wasn’t, and so I took my family’s validation even though it hurt, because it hurt less than accepting I was unloved and unwanted, you know, the alternative. I took a lot of blame that wasn’t mine to take back then. In 2010-2011 I peaked in my bad, disordered behavior, but then a very unhappy, and really life changing event forced me to look very, very hard at my really shitty situation, my really shitty life, and what the hell was going on. When I look back on my behavior, I realize that I definitely had a very disordered way of doing life for a long, long time. I did a lot of things that would be described as NPD characteristics, especially at my peak; in fact, I would say I behaved very much like my mother who demonstrates many characteristics of the disorder, and whose mother I am certain had full blown NPD. A point that I really relate with that I’ve read in this blog is that the narcissist sees himself/herself as their point of reference. I totally was like that, a lack of empathy that was astounding, especially at my peak. I see it with my mother, and I see that I too just could not get outside my perspective, and it was a very unhealthy, mean, vicious perspective. I thought everyone thought the way I did, and I treated them like it, and when 99% of people don’t tolerate being treated like I was treating them, I could justify it all somehow. Like these walking, talking objects were no more than fun bags of substance walking around in the periphery of my grandiose and false sense of self. It was bad, as I totally relate to the no boundary thing. I did not have boundaries and I really expected people to not have boundaries with me too. The real kicker to recovery was when I started getting better, and I finally confronted my mother with a boundary, a real and true, well thought out “test” boundary, and I saw that I didn’t matter to her, that I didn’t exist. She told me basically she wished that I’d never been born, and she said it on my birthday too. The proof was right there, and I accepted the truth, and I found that somewhere deep inside there was a severely injured and mute little girl that I had absolutely crushed. I had to learn what a boundary was, and it took a lot of courage to stick up for myself, but it was worth it.

    The difference now is I feel a lot of shame that I behaved so awfully, and a certain self awareness that I lacked before in my desperateness for approval and validation, but I figured it out I didn’t have to do life like that. I have found forgiveness for myself, and it took a lot of self reflection to get to this point. I can’t change the past, I can only try to be the best I can be and failing that, I can say I tried my best at least. I think being self-aware was key for me, that I turned away from that very disordered way of being and instead tried, I really do try, to understand why I was acting like that, and I have learned being myself, even though I am rejected by my family because of it, is the only way I can be honest and true to myself. That other person was miserable and really just not a nice person to be around, and it was me. That was me, and it hurts now to own it, but I do. I realized certain aspects of my environment made it worse, and so I went low contact with my dysfunctional family, really applied myself to be better, to be honest with myself, to recognize the red flags, and put responsibility where responsibility was deserved. I quit my super unhealthy trigger happy job, as that was a really bad job for my mental health, took time to myself and I learned a lot very quickly, and I am still educating myself. I saw that as a child, I did not deserve the things that happened to me, I do not deserve a mother who literally can’t see me, but as an adult, a misguided and frankly mentally ill adult, it is up to me to take responsibility and I do. And it hurts, but it is a relief too. That significant and life changing event was just that, if it hadn’t happened, I can say with some certainty I would not have found myself at all. It may have saved my life, in a very turn about kind of way because it really was just horrible.

    I feel less disordered now, though I sometimes fall into old habits, but I am getting better at staying within myself and in the present moment. I feel like there was some aspect of dissociation before, but I don’t go numb anymore, even after dealing with triggers. I haven’t self harmed in a long time, and the suicidal idealization is very, very rare, and I can work my way through it now. I am depressed only sometimes and I can work my way through that too, I no longer have unhealthy eating habits, I quit smoking, I am going to school again and experiencing real success and a passion for life that I did not have before. I have discovered I am anti-consumerist, with a real love for reading non fiction, and a powerful drive to help people. I like being alive now, and I manage to keep up with life, instead of being frustrated by it. The best part is having real feelings, and understanding where my feelings come from, I have a great deal of patience with myself because I do not always understand my reactions, but I think a lot about them until I can deal with them. I did not have that before, and at my peak I lied to myself a lot, and lied to others, and used others, and I did just awful things to people who actually did care about me. I felt justified, I mean I remember feeling so justified, but it was very wrong the things I did and completely pathological. I got mixed up with a really bad crowd, drug addicts and criminals. I was on a bad path. The paradox, or I guess it’s not really one at all but rather predictable, is that the more I become what feels like myself, the more comfortable I become in my own skin, the more my family rejects me. I didn’t want to go to jail, or die, or be homeless, or a drug addict, and it’s not what they think should be. I just don’t fit their version of who they think I ought to be anymore, and my mother’s approval I have found, is both impossible to earn and completely unrelated to who I actually am. My mother’s triangulations, manipulations, undermining and general NPD characteristics will not change, my father’s neglect won’t change, the sociopathic characteristics of my sister won’t change, and my ostracism from the family won’t change. It has been very painful to face it, but I am glad to face it because I am changing because of it.

    Long rant, thank you for the opportunity to talk about my feelings, and just say that I’m glad that you have written these things and I am glad to have come across it.

    Like

    1. Thank you 😀

      I wouldn’t call what you wrote and shared a ‘rant’. It’s honest and beautiful! And very inspiring! I hope you’ll reread it and see your personal power and strength in your own words. You have great courage. Keep doing what you are doing, ignore those who don’t support you, they don’t deserve you or your attention. Your bravery is awesome and will see you through the worst of it as it always has even when you didn’t know it.

      I would not say that you are a Narcissist, I would say that you have been influenced by Narcissists in your formative years and they confused you about your own identity because they were confused about their own identity. Your deep caring and desire to become a better person and most of all become true to who you really are… that’s not narcissistic, that’s a real human struggling to survive and thrive against tremendous pressure and adversity.

      You are you, and your awareness of your life and the different paths you have taken and how that has affected you and others, is a part of who you are, and it enriches who you are. You are living your life very consciously now. Be kind and compassionate with yourself, keep doing what you are doing, and trust yourself. Forgive yourself, learn from your past to make your present one which fulfills you and supports you, make amends where you can… but not with those who don’t deserve it. Your life belongs to you, and you must do whatever you have to to own it and claim it and live it! You’re doing that, keep going! Kudos!

      Ostracism from family can be a very lonely and harsh experience, especially with Society ramming home the message of loyalty to family, family love, and family this and that which is supposed to be so wonderful but isn’t for a lot of people. When your family is trying to destroy you, being ostracised from them is a blessing in disguise of a curse. When they reject you, they free you from their version of reality, their version of you, and the hell that creates for you. You’re free, it may hurt, but it’s freedom which hurts less than being in a prison of family hell.

      Your life which you are creating now… that’s beautiful even when it hurts at times. Trust yourself and follow your heart!

      Thank you so much for sharing!

      Like

  8. I went through a phase when researching NPD of wondering if I could be the one with NPD. I think it’s fairly natural to ask ourselves those kinds of questions. To my understanding, a Narcissist would never entertain the possibility.

    What I think is that it’s just hard to turn the tables on the narcissist when you’ve been the victim of narcissistic abuse. I wouldn’t be surprised if the narcissist plans it to be that way. You feel like the dirty scuzzbag they’ve tried to make you feel you are.

    I’ve never heard of inverse narcissism, but it sounds intriguingly similar to facets of Avoidant Personality Disorder, which I think is an unsurprising reaction to narc abuse. I will have to read more about the inverse aspect.

    Like

    1. Many facets of NPD overlap with other disorders, which makes pinning NPD down very difficult, which is typical of NPD. The Inverted Narcissist is a term created by Sam Vaknin, a self proclaimed Narcissist who has been trying to understand the disorder he has for many years. He is pretty much the only source for info on it as it is still being debated whether it is a viable thing. He has a blog, and it was one of the first I explored when I became interested in the subject several years ago. It’s actually very intriguing to view NPD through the eyes of someone who has it, as that is very rare. There is a female who does something similar, her Youtube is NPDrecovery and she has some very interesting videos on it.

      I have come to a sort of conclusion, due to my propensity to attract Narcissists, that in some ways the Narcissists in our life are teaching us to embrace our own Narcissism, but in a healthy way rather than the way they express it. After all Narcissism is a natural phase of development which we all go through, but those with NPD get stuck there, and the rest of us pass through it and move on. But if when we passed through we did it too quickly we may need a refresher course. It’s basically taking the idea that all relationships have a lesson in them, and applying it to our relationships with those with NPD, asking, what can I learn from this experience (partly so I don’t have to keep having it)?

      I did have one Narcissist ask me if I thought they had NPD. That was weird. Mostly because I didn’t realise at the time, due to only just meeting them, that they had NPD. It was after that question that I began to observe them and realised they did have it. So sometimes Narcissists do have a moment of self reflection, it just doesn’t usually go that deep and they very rarely do anything about it because they think their problems lie with everyone else. It certainly doesn’t tend to go as deeply as when we ask ourselves the same question.

      How a Narcissist makes us feel, especially when they are at that stage where they make us feel terrible about ourselves on a constant basis… that is them giving us their wound. It is how they feel about themselves, but they don’t want it, can’t accept it, so they push their feelings about themselves into others and get rid of it from themselves. If you believe that you are who they insistently tell you that you are, then you come to believe that you have NPD. They are expert at messing with people’s minds, because they live in the mind, so they know how the mind works and how to mess with it.

      Take care, and thank you for sharing 😀

      Like

      1. Thank you, I’ll have to check out those two sources.

        it is intriguing to think they could be teaching us. I think it’s wise to frame the situation in a positive light. Not so positive that one continues to stay in a bad situation (then again, there are times when we have little choice regarding our circumstances), but enough to not get pulled down in negativity.

        Like

      2. sorry, I am having wonky typing issues at the moment and couldn’t finish my comment. anyway, I think your conclusion is very possible. I’d like to think we get something out of the tough spots.

        Like

        1. I usually have wonky mind issues 😉 So, no worries.

          Sometimes we have to stay in a bad situation, as you pointed out, because sometimes we don’t have the luxury of choice in the matter. I think this can be positive as well as negative. A bit of both. There is positive in the negative, and also negative in the positive.

          When things go well for us, we get lazy. It’s very human to do that. Like a talent which we are born with, we don’t appreciate it until we lose it and can’t use it and then have to fight to get it back.

          When things don’t go well, we come alive in a way which we rarely do when we live on easy street. Our primal instinct gets awakened, and it is a powerful thing.

          There is much to be learned from hardship. Mostly we learn how resourceful and strong we are. Our will forges its muscles when it is in a challenging situation.

          One of my favourite books is based around the idea that our problems and neuroses and the challenges we face in life are actually opportunities in the guise of hardship and difficulty. That in every curse lies a valuable gift and we benefit from the very things we find the hardest to deal with. That’s partly where I got the whole gift in the curse concept about relationships with Narcissists. From that and partly from my own life. I noticed that I was forced to actively develop certain traits due to my interaction with my NPD parents. Because they invalidated my identity and existence, I had to not only fight for my right to be and exist, but that it made me really think about it and explore it.

          More and more I can see how the victims of Narcissists (myself included) have actually benefited from their awful experience. It just takes a while, and gentleness towards the self, to see that because we blame ourselves and get caught in the blame.

          Those who attract Narcissists the most, tend to lack healthy Narcissism within themselves, and it is as though the Narcissist is there to teach us to seize those traits within ourselves and develop them, but in a healthy way. Their negative behaviour inspires positive behaviour. After all Narcissism is natural, it’s just completely warped in a Narcissist, and perhaps missing from their victims, but we can learn. Humans have an unlimited capacity to learn and adapt and evolve.

          Or maybe I’m just very wonky in the mind 😉

          Like

      3. Unfortunately, I can confirm Sam Vaknin’s every single view on this disorder. I am a narcissist who started this “for fun” at age 19. I did not went through any emotional abuse or parental neglect, I was a normal teenager at 18. But after becoming an N and ruining everything, reading Sam Vaknin’s blog was like reading my own mind from bit to bit.

        He is right at every single piece of this terrible monster that narcissism (me) is.

        Like

        1. Thank you very much for sharing 🙂

          I first came across Sam Vaknin when I saw the documentary about him. His work is very insightful. He was one of the first people to blog about it, share information and his personal experience. He still is one of the few who approach the subject from the narcissist’s perspective and I think that what he does is valuable.

          Narcissism is a monster of a problem, but even though I’ve often seen the narcissists in my life as being monsters, I don’t think they are monsters I think it’s more that they’re consumed by the monster that is narcissism. There have been times in my interactions with the narcissists I’ve known where you can see the person that they are trapped inside this nightmare.

          Like

  9. I think I may be more narcissistic than I let on. I can understand inverted narcissism as well. I am pretty sure in a few of my relationships both of us, or at least I was dealing with it. Narcissism is one of the reasons why I find it so hard to leave my current relationship. I constantly question how much of my desires are really based on the things that piss me (legitimate things) of or me wanting to have what I want, when I want it, how I want it and I don’t care what you feel just give me mine (and me justifying my selfishness with things that are legitimate).

    Like

    1. Narcissism is very tricky because it is a natural human trait. We all have it. It is a healthy trait. It is a natural phase of development. We should all have a bit of it, and enjoy it. It’s the point in our lives where we develop a sense of ourselves as separate from others. It’s the moment we see ourselves as an ‘I’ or a ‘me’.

      Narcissistic Personality Disorder happens when we are traumatised during that natural phase of development and get stuck there. We do not develop a healthy sense of being separate from others. Our identity gets fused with others.

      Most people who display Narcissism are not Narcissists, as in they do not have the disorder, they’re just enjoying feeling good about being unique and sort of special because of it. Being selfish is healthy, mostly, it does not mean that a person has NPD. Besides our society encourages Narcissism so it’s normal and mostly it’s fine. So, as usual, it’s a bit confusing, to know the differences between healthy and unhealthy Narcissism.

      I don’t feel you (and I tend to use my feeling, intuition, to get that NPD vibe) as having NPD. You have a healthy love for yourself, and you’re a talented artist (seriously talented! WOW!). Your Narcissism is healthy and deserved, so don’t question it unless you want to.

      Relationships are always complex. Two individuals trying to merge certain parts, yet stay individual… never easy, but that’s the beauty of the challenge. When you enter a relationship, it’s a partnership… it has to respect equality or things start to get competitive. Humans love that kind of a challenge, that’s why we are drawn to enter the fray of being with someone else. It can be very inspiring to those who are creative.

      You don’t have the NPD static feel about you. But it’s a creative act to question the self and your intentions (not something those with NPD do). SO always question and create, but no need to worry, you’re not an NPD Narcissist. You’re just being human, which is beautiful.

      Like

      1. Thank you for so many of the things you said, and for clarifying things about NPD. My dad has it for sure, and my mom does to a degree. I do question myself in my relationships because I think in the past so many problems stemmed from neither person wanting to compromise. I do know that if I had the tendencies, I would want to fix them because I could never raise my son the way that I was raised.

        Like

        1. We all question ourselves in relationships, I think, in some ways, that’s what relationships are about. It’s about evolving creatively out of the questions we ask ourselves which come from opening ourselves up to the experience of being in a relationship. Some people never allow that kind of intimacy to happen. You’re very brave, never doubt that. Your son is lucky, though he may never know that and perhaps it’s best if he doesn’t know and just thinks it’s natural, to have a mother like you. Your love for him is a great inspiration.

          Trust yourself, you know the way and what is right, you have great instincts. Life is an experience to be lived with passion. Your passion is a light to guide you and those whom you love.

          Like

            1. It’s one of the greatest challenges in life, especially if we’ve been encouraged to doubt ourselves, but learning to trust ourselves is very rewarding. Takes time and practice, and quite a few mistakes, and learning to forgive the times we mess up. You have sharp instincts.

              Like

  10. Any of us that act to defend our self first rather than to first examine in our self the cause for an upset is being self-serving (which actually in as you might read it that turning inward is serving self makes no sense to the narcissist – they can’t do it successfully without finding fear and turning away to anger – then rage). Its best to stay clear and be courteous and caring as needed – empathize but move on as soon as possible is what I do. By now you are an expert on the subject – you didn’t ask so please forgive me, but you aren’t a narcissist – so, I wonder why you blog so about them any more – ( sometimes people obsess about categories — that is something else altogether).
    Best wishes, and God’s blessings for happiness I pray.
    ~ Eric

    Like

    1. Thank you.

      You’re correct I am an obsessive thinker. It’s part of who I am. So is my blog. My blog is me, warts and all. I share my life and thoughts and stuff. It is selfish, I think I said that in my ‘About’ and it helps me to do it as I do it, helps me to be more aware, to see what I might have missed, and to express what sometimes gets stuck and needs releasing so I can see it clearly, but what has been most surprising is how much it also helps others, because they relate, maybe see themselves in my words. That’s a wonderful bonus.

      This year has been a very difficult one. I detached from my past for a while, but it has come back this year very vividly and I’ve had to face some old things… connected to my parents who are both Narcissists, which is why I am focusing on the subject. Being here now rather than trying to avoid it. So what I’m doing with my posts is sorting through some things I need to sort out. And others have found answers in what I have been doing and shared that with me, like you have, and I am grateful for the feedback. Thank you. Your input means a lot to me.

      Blessings to you too, your blog is most helpful 😀

      Like

      1. Dear Ursula
        I don’t mind it at all. But I am very fragile and sometimes I think I will never be able to have a normal life, to love myself and to be loved.
        I am crying as I would love to disappear into nothingness because this is too much for me, more than I can handle.
        What happened with my shrink (who now I realised diagnosed me straight away as an I N without telling me, mentioning the notion of sacrifice in my life) is something I can’t forget. Still my boundaries are so poor that I have empathy for him and I think he’s not well.
        What happened is that, due to his N disorder, he couldn’t do anything else but dive into it as my N supply was something euphoric for him, so in the following order, he tried to make me dependant on him as he asked me to have three session per week, his diagnosis on my depression was wrong but allowed him to give me meds (and always the wrong ones) so I ended up having panic attacks all day long and his way of being and his feelings started taking too much room and the analysis was more on him than on me ( it happens that the analysand becomes the analyst but here is different). He asked me continually to be reassured and couldn’t believe the therapy was beneficial and twice out of three sessions he used to call me to tell me I misunderstood the time so I ended running to him upset and confused; we used to talk of what I love, music art, and philosophy until this seduction went too far( nothing sexual as he’s too aware of being caught) and we had a conversation I thought I was having with a guy I fancied, we could have been in a bar for that, the looking, the sensual use of literature-“have you read Musil? Those sensual sense are wonderful…”.Well I wrote a mail after saying I couldn’t accept seduction in therapy, as I wanted this with a man outside that. In one of the last sessions he justified himself telling me seduction was a part of therapy and he wanted to show me what it was like to be loved, so I said we should meet outside but he declined as he was my shrink; when I quitted he couldn’t accept I was leaving so he had a tantrum, I listened and observed a rage I couldn’t imagine he would unveil; he tried also to keep me for the meds as he refused to prescribe it for more than one month.
        I spent six month of my psychoanalysis to understand what happened and I was real hell, I thought I couldn’t make it, but I did as my therapist suggested to get rid of all this I should call him for a coffee to see his reaction: he was in a terrible rage with me.What for?
        Being a N pervert means he’s driven only by his own needs and he couldn’t do anything but taking from me, although I was fragile and came from an experience with someone with the same profile. Seduction is his therapy and he loved the image he got from me as I was kind, reassuring and I appreciated him. For sure he liked me, I can’t even tell you all the compliments he made (as you wrote this is a particularly difficult issue for me!!) so at the end of the day, if a man appreciated me it was an illusion as all this is a lie. The only link between his smooth and attractive surface in his office and the rage outside it lies in his illness.
        He refused to meet me as even if he knows he hurt me, he can’t face real issues- some therapist like him like the idea of having patients with whom they can share intimacy with zero risks and once they are out of their sheltered area they would have to take responsibility and they might suffer. Everything was safe for him but not for me. I have to mention I have been stalked for two months by a private number even twice a day, I think it might have been him as it is perverse.
        I have been though a desert and me, the girl with no addiction, experienced “drug” withdrawal. I feel devastated because he confused me and now I don’t know anything about myself.
        The only certainty resides in the fact that it took me a long time to understand I wasn’t his patient and what I took for a transference was falling in love with him, and a phone call to understand I wasn’t a person either for him. He didn’t want me to react but to be under his thumb, he took away everything of me, my vitality and my trust and awakened all my terrible memories with my parents.
        I don’t even deserve a coffee, there is no bond, as he took everything he could as he couldn’t do otherwise. This is hard. This makes me think I am unable to love and to be loved. I don’t love myself and I feel empty and anguished. The weird thing is that I am sorry for him, he’s in a cage, but he shouldn’t have done this to me as I was very fragile and I was asking for help.
        Narcissists are dangerous and I reacted late, it took me four months to understand there was something wrong, but I did; there are people who can feel worse.
        So, now, my friend, you know it all.
        Just wanted to thank you again as your explanation of boundaries is perfect and let me understand how I work and feel inside. All your words find an echo in my mind and in my heart. Please let me know if you feel this as true or maybe my mind is playing tricks on me; he has hurt me as my mum used to, pointing out it’s my fault and it’s not true- it’s called denial. It’s incredible we never met and I can share all this with you, although I feel sorry for all the room I take in your blog.
        I remember your words in the tub, I want to die, but it will pass away.
        Big hug
        S xxx

        Like

        1. Don’t ever worry about commenting on my posts, by commenting you are adding depth of content to my blog, you’re giving my blog a creative life of its own beyond me, which is wonderful. The heartfelt stories of your life which you share help me and they help others. You have great courage by speaking out, you’re giving voice to things many people keep quiet about, and these are things which need to be said and brought out into the open.

          You’re story is very personal to you, but it also connects you with others who have similar stories. You’re not the only person who has suffered at the hands and mouth of a Narcissist, and not the only one who has had a terrible experience with a therapist, with someone in a position of power who abuses it. Your words help to free you, they show you how strong and vibrant you are, and they show others too that whatever form abuse takes, it is not right and your instincts tell you that and by speaking out about it you fight back and do it with bravery and as an act of self affirmation.

          By embracing your fragility you have found your greatest strength, because fragility is life. All of life is fragile, and by feeling that you are actually feeling the essence of life coursing through you. You are actually more in tune with life. Those who seem strong and who are never fragile… they have disconnected from the essence of the natural world, from life. They are trying to transcend being human, and that leads to slowly raping the Earth and destroying it, because they don’t feel connected to the planet and can’t feel its pain. That is their path, so it is neither right or wrong, it just is what it is. But your path is also what it is, embrace it as it is.

          You know what your therapist did to you was wrong and by saying it loudly and clearly you are freeing yourself from all the ropes he used to tie you up and keep you a prisoner of your pain and past. He also sought to heal his wound through you, and his rage was the frustration and fear he felt when he realised but didn’t want to accept, that he can’t pass his wound on to others.

          Much of what I do with my posts is self therapy. By saying things and publishing them publicly, even if it makes me sometimes feel very vulnerable to do so, is an act of self empowerment. I have a hard time explaining this, but there is a subtle magic about just saying what you think and feel, especially if it is something which you might want to keep hidden, perhaps because of shame or a feeling similar to that, and doing it in such a way that you can’t erase it. There are times when I want to delete posts and sometimes just delete my blog entirely and just disappear, but I don’t let myself because I have to stop being that way. And those who comment on my posts help me to break my old patterns, because it is one thing to delete my own words, but when someone comments on a post, I can’t delete their words because I see the value in their words and that helps me to see the value of my words.

          Every day is a struggle for me, keeping my blog going is a tremendous challenge. Especially now, there’s a lot going on in my offline life which is causing the past to resurface and… I feel fragile all the time, teetering on the brink of oblivion and wanting to jump. I’ve learned to accept that feeling and live with it, and know that no feeling is final, it is a passing wave. Some feelings and waves are more persistent. It helps to know that many moods are influenced by physical things too, such as hormones and brain chemicals. Like today I have a migraine, and I have to dim my computer screen until I can barely see anything, and they always last for three days and make me feel awful. But I keep going because that’s what humans do, that is life. It sounds a bit bleak, but it’s not really. As I sometimes say in my posts, I know the shadow side of life and I’m quite comfortable there, sometimes too comfortable. Wanting to die, is a cry for life, that’s something I learned many years ago. It’s an odd dynamic. The more you want to die, the more it is life inside of you screaming to live.

          Yes, there is a connection between us, because our lives have parallels. Narcissistic parents for one, and the challenge of finding and embracing our own existence as being something real and valid, something separate from others – thus boundaries and forming healthy ones is vital. We were taught not to respect our own boundaries because they were invaded when we were very young, too young to understand what was happening consciously, we knew then that it was wrong, but we couldn’t do anything to protect ourselves from the invasion. And no one saw what was happening and came to our rescue, so we felt very alone, and continue to feel that way. I see all of this as a need for us to become our own heroes and to save ourselves and give ourselves what we need. That’s why I say things such as if you want to be loved, then give yourself the love which you seek from others. Other people can’t give you what you need, because they need it too. So many relationships end up being a fight over need fulfillment. Since we were taught to give up everything to others, we end up doing just that. We have to teach ourselves to be less giving of ourselves to others, which is difficult but not impossible. We need to learn to give to ourselves first, we have to become the very thing we were taught was a bad thing, being selfish, putting ourselves first, existing, because ultimately that ends up being a healthier way of giving.

          So, keep being exactly who you are, one day you will see how beautiful you are, right now, you’re getting glimpses of it and maybe it scares you because you were taught to see yourself differently. Keep going and do not give up on yourself ever!

          Like

          1. Thank you Ursula for your words.
            I feel better today and I ponder about boundaries, which helps me dealing with people without breaking relationship but affirming limits which are not to trespass (as with a friend who is a bit of a N) and this actually makes me feel better and less vulnerable.
            I’d like to include here a poem by one of my favourite authors, Sylvia Plath, for everybody who would like to be different and yes, dead at the same time, but, as you say, you are very wise, it’s like touching the bottom of the ocean and we can only come up to breath new air.

            I Am Vertical Sylvia Plath

            But I would rather be horizontal.
            I am not a tree with my root in the soil
            Sucking up minerals and motherly love
            So that each March I may gleam a new leaf,
            Nor am I the beauty of a garden bed
            Attracting my share of Ahs and spectacularly painted,
            Unknowing I must soon unpetal.
            Compared with me, a tree is immortal
            and a flower-head not tall, but more startling,
            And I want the one’s longevity and the other’s daring.

            Tonight, in the infinitesimal light of the stars,
            the trees and flowers have been strewing their cool odours.
            I walk among them, but none of them are noticing.
            Sometimes I think that when I am sleeping
            I must most perfectly resemble them —
            Thoughts gone dim.
            It is more natural to me, lying down.
            Then the sky and I are in open conversation,
            and I shall be useful when I lie down finally:
            Then the trees may touch me for once, and the flowers have time for me.

            Here the wound becomes poetry… Once Beethoven was triggered by migraine as you are because of the noise of all the horses continually coming back and forth with their cling cling, which became obsessive and prevented him to write, so he decided it had to turn into a melody, and here is the Tempest sonata!
            You are brave to keep your blog and fight your migraine, and not to destroy what you write, I do understand your effort, and I have experienced this.
            True at the moment so much of our horrid past is coming back in waves, as though there is still something to process.
            You are an example for me: I feel I will never be able to create healthy relationships, but you show me this is possible so I hang in there.
            Now the hardest bit is to start giving myself what I need, but as an authentic Pisces, I am not very determined and get easily discouraged!
            Just one question: your metaphor and explanation of boundaries are so convincing and they work so well with me, the image is perfect as in a kaleidoscope, how did you find it? Pondering? What inspired you to read this concept this way? I am too curious but I don’t mean to be nosy!
            Hope your migraine goes away with the wind, I find green or ginger tea helps and avoid chocolate and coffee. Thank you again for being there for me.

            Like

            1. The poem is beautiful, thank you for sharing it. I read Sylvia Plath’s The Bell Jar… and oh how I got where she was coming from! The story of her life is incredibly sad and inspiring. She was very loved but just couldn’t feel it, and that is I think what shook me to the core the most about her. I realised I was similar, and decided to pay attention to the love which others offer which I sometimes fail to recognise or feel because of being so caught up in being alone. It changed things for me. To learn to see myself through the eyes of others in a positive way, which was foreign to me. To allow myself to recognise the love and teach myself to feel it. It takes time and practice, and it helps to learn to understand others and how they communicate with more than just their mouths. Actions are a powerful source of love. If you want to know if someone loves you, watch their actions. And watch your actions too.

              Actually I was going to ask you if you use astrology at all, but I forgot to ask. I have found learning to read my chart very helpful in understanding myself and my relationships with others, and with life. Especially Chiron, the wounded healer. I have a strong Pisces influence, not my Sun sign which is Capricorn (which is a much maligned sign, but that’s another story), so I know about the challenges of Pisces energy. In essence Pisces has problems with boundaries because it can cross them naturally. It is a part of the gift of the sign, Pisces has a natural ability to access the collective consciousness, but it also means that losing yourself in others comes with it too because you can feel and know what others are feeling and thinking. So developing boundaries is very important.

              The way I work with concepts is to explore them from as many perspectives as possible until I create a whole picture. I use my mind to process things and put them together, but the information my mind processes comes from all my senses and faculties. I use the subconscious a lot, dreams and the language of inner imagery. Memories which pop up randomly have a message, stray songs, and thoughts. If someone new reminds you of someone you know, that’s information. If you’re thinking about a situation and your mind seems to distract you with a song or a random thought, it’s telling you something about the situation and isn’t random at all and not designed to distract but to inform. That’s how the subconscious mind communicates.

              So with boundaries, it’s something I’ve been working on for a while because I needed to create some healthy ones. I’ve always had healthy physical boundaries, just lacked them in my emotions and my emotions affected my mental boundaries. The best place to start is with your physical body, because the body creates natural metaphors for the mind and emotions and subtle energies. If someone touches you without your permission, how do you react and deal with it? You have to ask yourself a lot of questions and listen to the answers. So, if you wouldn’t allow someone to mess with your body, why would you allow them to mess with your emotions, your emotions are a body, your body, too. Same applies to the mind. So you learn to create a protective skin over the other bodies which are part of your physical body. The skin has to breathe, so it must not be a impermeable. Some things will get through, but you can question those, like a gatekeeper. It’s trying to find a balance between letting nothing in and letting too much in. Takes time and practice and allowing yourself to make mistakes. Making mistakes is very important as it hones your knowledge and understanding.

              I also use nature a lot, because it is a wise teacher. Plants have much wisdom to offer, so does the weather. It means listening on a different level with different ears.

              Your cat for instance, cats are very careful about who they allow to touch them, and how they allow it. Cats use their instincts to know people. You can sense just like a cat by picking up the subtle energies of the people you interact with. Their faces can lie, their mouths can lie, but they can’t control everything they emit even when they think they are a fortress, they are not. People often give themselves away with body language and subtle word usage. It’s about listening with all the senses. And questioning what you hear, and listening to your answers.

              Not sure if I’ve explained it as it is holistic, and mostly I do it without thinking about it.

              Let me ask you this, and maybe this will explain it – when you are with a Narcissist, you can feel it can’t you? How does it feel? Ponder it. It feels different from when you are with someone who is not a Narcissist, doesn’t it? You can actually feel a Narcissist trying to get inside of you, as though they had invisible tentacles. Whereas with someone who is not a Narcissist, they respect an invisible line, a boundary, between you.

              Narcissists feel different to people who are not Narcissists. They feel static and sticky. People who are not Narcissists feel fluid.

              Thank you about the migraine. It’ll pass. It forces me to take a time out from everything.

              It’s strange because when you look at art, or listen to music, you can sometimes see and hear the symptoms of ailments of an artist. Someitmes those ailments are the inspiration behind their creations. Human life is magnificent and the opposite of it too.

              Take care, you’re on the right path, you know it, it takes time and practice, you’ll get where you’re going, trust yourself 🙂

              Like

              1. Hi there Ursula and good morning!
                Sorry I am writing so late it’s due daily routine, but also I couldn’t concentrate as I really wanted to see clearly to be able to answer your questions… and sorry for all my mistakes, I rush far too much to follow the line of my thoughts.
                Actually what you asked me is really interesting, about what I feel when I am with a N. What I am about to say is odd to me but authentic and maybe you know why, while I don’t. The acceptation of static and sticky sensation is due to their strong will not to give themselves away and to get and they stick to their prey, in the sense that the gestures and words are meant to lead them to deal with the core of the other people’s emotions, but what I feel deeply is the intensity, which is close to the intimacy I cherish so much, I find intimacy is a treasure between people, and the fact I feel surrounded by their presence and being, I would say even warmth at the beginning; the thing is, due to my structure, I seem to look for this and I seem to love it at the beginning, because they know how to make me feel special. Does it sound sick? What does it mean? Maybe getting attention is my problem since as a child I wasn’t very interesting for my parents. But if I am looking for it, it means subconsciously I am drawn by them as familiar. As far as boundaries and protection, I realise I have none and when I was younger I also lacked my physical ones, but as you say I let people mess with my emotions, I am very aware of what happens since I am involved emotionally, as this is an overwhelming side of me.
                My N friend can be nice, helpful and thoughtful and then, out of the blue, she put on a mask and say horrible things; I can be angry, I have to learn to respect myself but most of all I need to see it coming, as otherwise I am caught in the net. She has very good sides too, and I guess she’s looking for redemption. My fault is that I can’t prevent myself from feeling empathic for her as I sense she must have been suffering since a very early age. After my nine months illusion (sounds as a pregnancy!!) with my therapist, I feel even more insecure with men and I don’t know when I feel well with someone if it’s mutual, the confusion, as you say, it’s the main feature of their strategy. I am non-strategic person, this comforts me to define myself as a non N, it must be hard to accept it.

                There is another question for you, what do you reckon of seeking for sharing what we love? I mean in a relationship with a man, I’d love to be able to live what I love, to go to concerts or talking about poetry, is this a N attitude to find oneself in the other? I am very worried about it, as I can’t really exclude what I am from a relationship and become what people want of me.
                I am very complicated, I hear women are attracted here by a handsome man, to me being handsome is not only his appearance but his voice, his thoughts, his way of looking at life. People tell me I am an old soul and I belong to a different era. I am also ashamed of not having a social identity or status, for my family I am a misfit and so I think nobody can be drawn by someone lacking so much (not to mention money!!!).
                I have a weird attitude towards astrology as I rationally object to be conditioned but what I read on my chart terrifies me as it sounds true!!! I only love my Mercury in Aquarius but a Venus in Aries and a moon in Virgo don’t thrill me….The trouble with my life is that due to my non love of myself, nothing has been fulfilled, I am alone, I studied a lot but I have no professional satisfaction and I am still struggling with this feeling of death that sometimes invades me, you explained it so well.
                I read between your lines a worry and a sadness, has it got to do with your parents? What you call your offline life….I really hope you are not alone to face all this and that you can share it with your partner. I hope for you there is a security exit in your mind, something that can make you feel better at one, even if it’s just an ephemeral wellbeing; last night I needed to take the plug off so I rushed to the concert and it was so beautiful, my mind was on it for three hours, like a bath in light and energy.
                I would like to add these lines I love
                TS Eliot – Burnt Norton
                Time present and time past
                Are both perhaps present in time future
                And time future contained in time past.
                If all time is eternally present
                All time is unredeemable.
                What might have been is an abstraction
                Remaining a perpetual possibility
                Only in a world of speculation.
                What might have been and what has been
                Point to one end, which is always present.

                TS Eliot has been a loyal companion in my life journey, but my question is: how much of the past is in our present? We are our past, it is embodied in ourselves, we cannot change it. I feel I would like so badly to get out of this knot I am entangled in but everything seems still. Is it true what Parmenides said about reality being a form of eternal truth or what Heraclitus climes as we won’t bathe twice in the same water? I’d love it to be the second one, but I sense in my case what I live is closer to the first perspective. You know Ursula, these days I am waiting for an answer that can really change my life but everything is still.
                Here’s another TS Eliot quote, it came along by itself (East Coker)

                I said to my soul, be still, and wait without hope
                for hope would be hope for the wrong thing; wait without love
                for love would be love of the wrong thing; there is yet faith
                But the faith and the love and the hope are all in the waiting.
                Wait without thought, for you are not ready for thought:
                So the darkness shall be the light, and the stillness the dancing.

                That is related to what you wrote yesterday, about doing nothing, sometimes we have to stop and wait, wait and see…
                I love these two sentences which are the opening and the closing of the poem, but I would like to look at them with the hope of finding a new horizon and to get rid of all the grief and burden I have been kindly given as a birth present by my nice parents.
                In my beginning is my end. In my end is my beginning.
                Wishing you a lovely day, here’s freezing but sunny. We need sunlight. And lightness of being. I do hope this fragility you feel at the moment will leave room to more pleasant emotions in a very short while.
                Take care x
                Seashell

                Like

                1. First, never apologise to me for you being yourself and expressing yourself as you are. I know that trait inside out. You’re beautiful as is. You don’t need to live up to an ideal of perfection, what you need is to see that you’re perfect as you are. The things you think are flaws, are not flaws, they’re gorgeous spontaneous burst of you being you.

                  Second, make a promise, a vow, to yourself not to kill yourself in any way. Very important. Because the urge to die and annihilate the self, is just a human urge. To feel it is one thing, to act on it is another. The urge to die is linked to the urge to live, the more you want to die is the more you want to live. It may not seem that way, but explore it deeply and you’ll find they are one and the same. So, make a promise to yourself to live, even though you may not want to. Then once you’ve made that vow to yourself, live. You’ve faced the darkness, you’re comfortable with it, now learn to understand the light side.

                  Astrology is just another philosophical theory. What you do with it is up to you. It is just another way to dialogue with the self, with the wisdom held within. The interpretations for each position are just words, you give the words life or not. Your choice, you have the power.

                  As for sharing your passions, that is natural. You’re not the only one who loves the things which you love. Concerts exists because many people love them. Same with poetry. When you go to a concert, there are other people there, right? Want to find someone who shares your passions, but are too afraid to approach them in person, say, at a concert… join a forum online which is dedicated to one of your passions and meet people of like mind in a detached setting. Just talk with them as you talk with me on my blog, they will like you as I like you. The internet is the natural home of shy people, so use it to connect with others who feel as you do, and be yourself, really just be as you are not as you think you should be. We all share many of the same fears and cautions about expressing ourselves, the internet gives us certain safe boundaries. You’re lovely as you are, stop hiding your light and your dark.

                  You could create a blog and share what you love on it, and follow those who share similar loves, it’s a wonderful community, and creates many great connections. Express who you are, all of you, and you will attract similar kindred spirits. Yes, you’ll attract some not so kindred spirits, but WordPress in particular gives a lot of control to the blogger. Focus on those who are of like mind and explore that.

                  Your life is in your hands, it’s up to you, you have all the power, you just have to recognise that fact.

                  As for me, I’m just tired. Really tired. All will be well once I let myself rest 😀

                  Like

                2. Seashell I just wanted to say what a beautiful soul you are.. Maybe you cant see it as it wasn’t reflected back to you… You have depth, sensitivity and deep intelligence. I am a lot like you. I opted out of society after recognising my marriage was unreal… to a person who could never see or affirm me and despised my emotions. My family did not get it. They did not get why I wanted to opt out. I was in a phase of deep exploration into all of these issues and I wrote and wrote and read a lot of biogs including one about TS Eliot and his breakdown and the poems that came out of it. I am sure he suffered just like us and I instinctively related to him and love his Wasteland poems from an early age. to me the Wasteland is a metaphor for our times of the deep wound we suffer as a collective and of the wounded child’s search for his reality…..there is some amazing stuff written on that from a mythological and psychological perspective and a wonderful book by a guy Richard Rohr which explains how the wound is what opens us to our humanity. The narc cannot acknowledge their wound.. so their life is tragic in many ways. they just don’t realise it. To be able to feel and suffer the wound and know it as a place of healing is a gift. This to me relates to the Chiron journey…..Its the one we are on especially the generations born during the oppositions of the 60’s. When you are a sensitive deep soul it can be hard.. you crave for another deep soul to recognise you.. that is not a narcissistic longing its from the soul….keep looking and don’t give up. but know the love you need is in your own heart. you just have to dig deep to find it….somewhere it comforts me to feel a silent witness watches us and loves us and longs for us to return that love to ourselves. Its the basis of the return home… and often its only won at the end of the burning ground….when our suffering has burnt us clean of all the obstructions which hid our true light…..don’t believe what your parents told you.. believe in you.. you are worth it. 🙂

                  Like

                  1. Dear deborah,
                    I have just discovered you wrote this to me by chance just now, sorry I didn’t want to ignore you!!!Sorry, really. Thank you for your support and for the lovely words you have for me. i am still struggling but I have understood better how it works. The wound is deep and changing behaviour towards ourselves is even more complicated than changing it towards others, I have to learn to stand for myself, that’s it, in a way I was calling for being wounded again and again- although i admit it, I didn’t intend to or expect it to happen with my therapist;I think he’s not well.
                    What a coincidence we both love TS Eliot, it is a powerful influece for my writing and I love his philosophical wanderings. How’s your writing? I’ll visit your blog then.
                    I really hope you are well. Big hug and sorry again!
                    s xxx

                    Like

          2. Its such a brave thing you are doing, Ursula.. and I can imagine a lot of energy to keep up with all the posts… I so love what you wrote to Seashell about fragility.. I came to believe when I entered recovery from addiction that its sensitive people who use substances to numb us but with the numbing comes a distance from the natural world and our instincts…. when we recover we begin to feel raw like an exposed vibrating nerve but then we can learn how to live in relationship with the earth, animals and the natural world and protect and nurture that rawness and use it as a means of being deeply in touch with our souls.. So much in modern socieity is gearing us to shut down. over consumption, busyness all to take us away from the now and from the soul. We need to come alive to the soul and the energies around us and learn protection from what is toxic and harmful… Your writing is helping me see so much more. and you are helping other beautiful souls, like seashell.. just the name,well it’s beautiful… blessings to you both.

            Like

            1. Thank you.

              There is great power in allowing ourselves to just be… fragile. Fragility is not as fragile as it seems, therein lies strength, but it takes us a while to learn to live with how it feels. The rawness is a challenge to humans, especially civilised ones. I keep ending up watching films about feral women at the moment, I think the raw fragility is connected to our primal memories and that’s partly why it makes us so fearful, because we’re tapping into something that we have within which frightens us. The us who has adapted to society as it is now.

              And all that you say is very true.

              Addictions help us as much as they hurt us. They are not something to view only in a negative light. Sometimes we need buffers to help us to cope, and to gain the time and distance we need to deal with the more traumatic events in our lives. We get there, just takes time… and quite a bit of struggling (working our muscles).

              Like

      2. Coming to terms with the pain and confusion of this disorder takes so long. We are human and that we gain understanding is a miracle.. often its only through a lot of suffering, reading and questioning. If we had parents who affirmed us would we need to doubt and question this much…. Narcs to me are characterised by rigidity..they take refuge in it cause for them it provides a strong defence…Its a great learning to be loving with ourselves. For me the narc parent leaves you with an inner nazi tormentor who gives you little rest and is a remorseless inner critic. Breaking out of that takes some time and a hell of a lot of support. Arent you strongly Plutonian.. it may be your mission in life to be obsessive.. oh wait, yeah you are human. 🙂

        Like

        1. Sorry that was meant to be a comment on the dialogue in response to Hunt for Truth….I’v posted it in the wrong place.

          Like

Comments are closed.

Up ↑

%d bloggers like this: