Answering Questions About Narcissists…

These questions are from the search terms used to find my blog – the answers are a mix of serious with humour added. If you want me to clarify and go deeper into an answer to a question, or have another question to add, let me know using the comments:

Why are Narcissists attracted to me?

You taste delicious! And they’ve seen something special about you, which they will initially reveal to you during the seduction phase of the relationship. They see treasure and like a pirate they want to loot you. They will then try to make you forget what is special about you by taking you apart piece by piece.

Do Narcissistic people know they are difficult?

No. You’re the one who is difficult because you’re not giving them what they want and you’re expecting them to behave respectfully towards you. Although occasionally they will admit to being difficult, they have a different interpretation of the word. They’re unique, special, and you could never understand them… they are so misunderstood, that’s the price of being superhuman.

What does a Narcissist do when they don’t get what they want?

Have a tantrum, and scream and scream until… they get what they want. Or they burst into flames (if only). They’ll find a way to make you wish that you had given them what they wanted. They are very persistent.

Do Narcissists ever say they are wrong?

Sorry… what now!?! No. But if they do… watch out! It’s a trap!

Things Narcissists don’t want you to know?

How long do you have? They don’t want you to know anything and everything. I could have said the truth… but you already know that. Seriously the list that goes with this is too long. They are afraid of being an ordinary, mortal human. That’s their worst fear. Use this knowledge wisely, they are vicious when cornered and exposed.

Does a Narcissist ever fall in love?

No. They don’t know how to love as they are superhuman. Love is a human concept. But they do talk about love and how great their love is, greater than mere mortal love, if only they could find someone worthy of such supernatural love.

Two Narcissists in a relationship?

That’s not a question, but let me introduce you to my parents – Obsessive, competitive, dramatic, certain that they are gods and behaving as though they are, so very destructive to ordinary humans… and if they decide to have children, their children are going to end up wishing they hadn’t been born, at least not to these two maniacs. I could go on and on… and so can they, far longer than I can. I’m sure you could find some examples among celebrity couples.

Narcissist scream and curse?

Like a spoiled brat, only worse because a child grows out of that, Narcissists don’t.

Why am I attracted to Narcissistic men?

Why indeed? I don’t know you so I can’t be precise, but if you grew up believing in fairytale romances, that might answer that for you. Remember most fairytales, when they haven’t been censored into twee stories by Disney, always have a dark side.

Android sex?

You’ve had sex with a Narcissist then?

Can you ever win with a Narcissist?

Yes, but not as long as you’re playing the game by their ever changing rules. You have to make your own rules and don’t tell them what they are.

I admire your strength said the Narcissist?

And that is true. I admire you and now I’m going to eat you, said the Narcissist, and absorb your strength into me and leave you with nothing! If you want to know what talents you have, listen to the first things a Narcissist tells you about yourself when you first meet them, because they’ll reveal to you exactly what they are. They tell you what your talents and gifts are. After that, they will take you to pieces trying to get their hands on the gifts you have and which they want for themselves. If you won’t give them up willingly, they’ll destroy you and take them.

Why does my Narcissistic mother want to know everything about…?

Because you belong to her and what is yours is hers. How dare you keep anything from her, who do you think you are! Sound familiar?

Do Narcissists know they’re different?

Yes. They’re special. Immortal. Every single one of them, and there are a lot of them. So they’re not different, but don’t tell them that. They will talk your ear off telling you how different they are. They’re extraordinary!

Can a Narcissist woman find a man she will stay with?

Yes and no. It depends on the myth she is living. Some female Narcissists play the long-suffering ever-faithful wife so well they should get an Oscar for it. They will cling onto their chosen mate beyond the grave. Some female Narcissists play the Femme Fatale, seducing everyone, male and female, as they go. A Succubus. Many play the Damsel in Distress holding out for a hero. But when the hero tries to save her, she gets whisked away by more evil beings from which she needs saving. And heroes have a tendency to turn into villains in a Narcissist’s version of reality. Why do you want to know?

Why do Narcissists not like receiving presents?

Because gifts are an IOU, and they don’t like owing anyone anything because they like others owing them. It’s all about power games. Presents are tools of manipulation. Have you ever received a present from them and wish you hadn’t accepted it because now you owe them? They judge the actions of others by their own reasons for committing those same actions. They give presents when they want something from you. Ergo… they hate getting presents. But they also hate not being given presents!

How to annoy a Narcissist?

Easy peasy. Everything and everyone annoys them. Just say ‘No’ when they want something. Or rub their noses in a mistake they made, they make a lot of them. They hate making mistakes and having those mistakes pointed out to them. Seriously though, why do you want to annoy a Narcissist? The backlash is going to be dramatic and you’ll never hear the end of it. Is it really worth the momentary satisfaction?

Playing with a Narcissist?

Let them win. That usually means letting them cheat too. Or don’t let them cheat and win and watch them have a tantrum. They don’t do that thing called ‘losing’.

Giving a Narcissist boundaries?

They don’t know what boundaries are. If they find one it has challenge written all over it. You give yourself boundaries for your own sake, your boundaries won’t be acknowledged by the Narcissist, but have them for yourself they are a sanity saver. That’s why No Contact only works if you enforce it, they don’t understand what it means. Them ignoring you does not mean No Contact, it means they don’t need your services at this time. You ignoring them… this is intolerable to them!

What if both parents are Narcissists?

You end up like me. Good thing? Bad thing? *shrugs, cries, screams, laughs, falls silent and stares at floor while lying on the ceiling.

Why do Narcissists abuse?

They don’t consider what they do as being abusive, however everything you do is abuse to them. They see themselves as the victim. Perpetual victim of poor poor themness. They were abused as children which is why they became a Narcissist, what they do to you is what was done to them. And. They have no idea that what they are saying and doing is abuse.

Can I deprogram myself after Narcissist?

Yes. It’s going to hurt like hell, but it’s worth the pain. You’ll never fall under the spell of a Narcissist again after that. They’ll try, but you will be immune. But it takes time and patience and trust in yourself and being gentle with yourself.

Do Narcissists feel regret?

Not like you do. Their version of regret is different. They don’t like to be unmasked, when that happens they do a disappearing act. That’s regret to them. They were umasked and it was a horrible experience, they wish the illusion, the fake self, the mask, was still real. They wish all their illusions were real and they hate it when an illusion gets popped. They miss their illusions, and have nostalgic illusions about their illusions, dreaming of a time that never happened, but it is so real. The past to them is as imaginary as everything else, and they really miss the you they pretended you were, and the them that they were pretending to be. However they are very adept at faking regret to make others sympathise with their plight.

How to get a Narcissist to respect you?

Tough one, but possible. Say ‘NO’ and mean it and stand your ground no matter how bad it gets. If they can’t manipulate you, they’ll fear you. Fear is the Narcissist’s version of respect.

Do Narcissists run from feelings?

Most people think they don’t have feelings. They do, but not the way ordinary mortals have them. They were never taught how to deal with emotions, so they experience them as stress, which induces great fear. So, yes, they run away from feelings. Or they unleash the stress in your general direction and feel better, but you feel crushed. Or they get you to deal with their feelings for them, which is their favourite way of dealing with mortal stuff. They provoke you, you explode, they stay calm and accuse you of being insane. You emotional outburst made them feel very powerful because they caused it.

Why do narcissistic men control women?

For the same reason Narcissistic women control men. They need to be in control because it makes them feel safe. They are control freaks. They are afraid of being… human. To them being human is a chaotic experience which scares the crap out of them. So, control is power, control is safety, control means never having to feel fear.

Are you really a sensitive person or a Narcissist?

Narcissists are hyper-sensitive. About themselves. But completely insensitive to other people. They do however never ever shut up about how sensitive and empathic they are. They’re not. Not in the traditional understanding of sensitivity and empathy. They use their version of empathy to find your weakness, get under your skin, then they use it to hurt you and manipulate you. They’re very bad empaths.

Empaths and Narcissists?

This is a very common search term. There is a link between the two. An obvious one – Empaths are more likely to give the Narcissists the energy they need as they can’t generate their own and need to get it from others. Empaths are very giving, are overly sensitive about others, but tend to neglect their own needs, less for you, more for them and you won’t make any demands. This is Narcissist heaven because they are a bottomless pit, a very hungry stomach, of hyper-sensitive need which the Empath fills. But it’s never enough and the Empath never knows when to say ’No’. The not so obvious one – Narcissists are highly empathic, just in a very self-serving way. How exactly do you think they’re so good at messing with your mind and heart and getting you to give them everything they need.

Why do Narcissists play mind games?

It’s their favourite game. They live in the realm of the mind, so they are comfortable there and know their way around it. Their real and intimate version of sex is a mind fuck. They create their version of reality with their minds, so their minds get a lot of exercise and are very capable, flexible and quick to adapt and integrate new data. If you want to outplay them, don’t play mind games with them, block their mind games.

Why Narcissists always blame someone else?

Why blame yourself when you can give someone else the blame? There’s that. There is also the fact that accepting responsibility for blame means they might have to face their own ugliness… they can’t do that! Besides it’s easy to find others to blame, especially as you don’t have to ask for permission to do so, so they hand it out very generously and get to pretend that they are wonderful and beautiful, and the only reason their world is ugly is someone else’s fault. And they’re very good at getting people to forgive them and make excuses for them.

Narcissistic discard when it’s not about them?

Narcissists use conversation as a means of securing ‘Narcissistic Supply’. They need acknowledgement, affirmation, confirmation of their existence and that they are who they are pretending to be. You are there to support their magnificence. You’re the applause of the audience after a performance. They also need a million other things from you. There is no time for you and it has to be all about them. If you talk about yourself or a subject which interests you but does not interest them, they switch off. The only reason they will listen to you talk about yourself is when they are seeking information about you to become you, they are gathering information about how to steal your identity. So when you first meet them they will focus all their attention on you and batter you with personal questions aimed at finding out everything they want to know about how to become you. Once they have what they want, you are no longer needed, and they discard you because to keep you around might be dangerous to them, especially if they are now pretending to be you. No one else can know that you exist or their game might be discovered and their new mask will get ripped off.

If you’ve been in a relationship with a Narcissist, you’ve felt the sting of sudden abandonment and rejection. They leave when they please, and they return when and if they feel like it. Yo-yo-ing. They do not know who they are, sure they have many versions and ideas about who they are, and never shut up about who they are and what they do (without ever doing anything they say they do), but none of them are real. If they could, they would put their missing core self on a milk carton, but if you found it they’d reject that too. They tend to discard those who get closest to their real identity. They are afraid of that. All their behaviour is driven by fear. If you saw the face behind the mask, even if you were not afraid of it, and they saw you seeing it, they are afraid of it and now of you… so they get away.

Discarding people is a defense mechanism for them.

Why are people attracted to narcissist?

Why do so many people find Brad Pitt, George Clooney, Angelina Jolie attractive? I’m not saying those actors are Narcissists, I don’t know them as people, so I don’t know. It’s what they represent to us which attracts us, which makes us desire them or to be them. They are an ideal. A Narcissist tries to embody an ideal and make it real. They sell us our own dreams and fantasies and make them seem real and obtainable. They turn love into a mythic quest. If you’re looking for a Prince Charming, an Edward Cullen, A Wounded Man who can only be saved by true, self-sacrificing love, a Princess, A Damsel in Distress to save, or a Bewitching Siren… a Narcissist can be that for you. But the dream has a tendency to turn into a nightmare.

That’s it for now.



For more on Narcissists:

Narcissism and the Fruit of Suffering –  the blog of my favourite author, whose book Going Mad to Stay Sane helped me to figure out and explain many aspects of my own experience with narcissistic parents, especially my tendency to be self destructive.

Let Me Reach with Kim Saeed

The Narcissistic Continuum

Narcissism – Living Without Feelings – A very long and detailed analysis of NPD, which explains how someone develops the disorder, what goes on behind the facade, how the disorder affects the individual who has it, and its effects on others, and so much more. If you want to understand NPD, this is an excellent article. Comprehensive and insightful.


  1. I’m an empath and I’m in love with a narc. Nothing has happens between us. But he did something to me and when he asked out of the blue to get intimate I refused. I got the most horrifying silent treatment for 3 months. I didn’t understand his twisted way of mind fuck. It was so hard not to text. But eventually I stopped.


    • Thank you for sharing 🙂

      I’m glad to hear that you’ve kept your boundaries clear for yourself, and him. That’s one of the hardest thing for those who identify themselves as Empaths to do.

      This is an intriguing cautionary tale and insight into the Empath/Narcissist relationship (when taken beyond the point you stopped things) –

      And this is also an interesting insight into the Empath/Narcissist dynamic –

      It sounds as though you have very healthy boundaries, as well as strong self-preservation. Kudos. Keep trusting yourself and doing what you are doing. It is worth exploring what made you ‘love’ the narcissist. The more you know about yourself, the more you understand about others and your interactions with them.

      Keep taking good care of yourself. Best wishes!

      Liked by 1 person

      • Thank you. For a long time I thought something was wrong with me. Why didn’t I just give him what he wanted? He even said mean things behind my back about me in the intention that it would reach back and eventually it did. It hurt me so badly. I thought it was just a macho thing and he was just a little angry that I refused him. But no. It went on for months. I think you posed a very interesting question as to why I was attracted to him. I think.. Maybe beacause in the law of opposites do attract. Empaths have this notion that they can heal the world with love. But in the numerous blogs that I’ve read narcissist are energy suckers. They suck the very good energy out of you. I am so very glad to have dodged the bullet. But I have a deep sense that he’s going to return in some pretending miamed way so that I can feel sorry for him. In fact I know he is. He knows how much I care for him. I shared the fact that I was an empath. He knows I have good energy. The thing is I don’t know if I will be able to resist him… Because he’s gonna pull out that box of charm. I know I have to be strong. But saying it and being it in that moment is what is going to be critical.


        • Remember to be gentle with yourself. Cut yourself lots of slack.

          Sometimes we need to have certain relationship experiences to figure ourselves and our story out. Some relationships are echoes of things which we need to know.

          If you find this guy attractive, there’s nothing wrong with that, even if you’ve identified him as a narcissist. Narcissists can show us certain things about ourselves, not all of which need for us to have issues with ourselves about it.

          Ask yourself what it is about him which you love, then explore that. Sometimes it’s about a part of us which we’ve denied urselves, and which we need to acknowledge and embrace.

          Being an empath means you have certain wonderful natural abilities, but these abilities need respectful boundaries to be set for your benefit and for the benefit of others. Perhaps that’s what this is about. Or maybe it is opening up something else, a different kind of paradox.

          Keep this in mind – even when we don’t feel ready, life only gives us experiences which we’re ready to deal with.

          So, you’ll be okay, whatever happens. Trust yourself!


          • Right now you need to continue reading everything you can get your hands on…..knowledge is power…..and you will need it here. He will come back to you like nothing ever happened and expect to resume where you two left off, don’t fall for it. Even if he is not a narc the disrespect he is showing you should be enough for you to move forward. Don’t play the empath, it’s not your role. Find someone who can respect, trust and love you and if you don’t you always know that God will……please read to understand…….My position is divorcing a woman after a 11 month marriage, after 2 months the writing was on the wall, but I thought I could hang in there and make it work…….you have NO chances of making any relationship work with an evil being. Many good articles on the net of the demon and narcissism….good luck


  2. I’m sorry to bother so much Ursula. I’ve probably posted here more than anyone. Can’t sleep tonite. The emails don’t stop. The first with “i miss my best friend” was to illicit rumination. The next about how angry and disappointed she was with me was attempt for me to argue back. The next about “how much I’ve missed” was to intill some sort of guilt and shame. last nite she broke in my email again. There was all kinds of stuff about narcissim in there, and she’s very well aware I know about all the cheating. Then she emails me today saying, “Please reply with something” WTF!?? There is no remorse, regret, responsibility, apology or sorrow. There is never anything about our daughter or even a picture sent. I know you don’t know everything, but do these people somehow forget the boundaries they’ve crossed, and the pain and damage they inflict? It’s hard to accept the mother of my child is only lives to pilferage and punish.


    • No worries 🙂

      Just keep in mind that much of the suffering which a narcissist causes us… is due to us not accepting reality – the reality that we’re dealing with a narcissist, and that this person is not who we want them to be for us.

      They hurt us, yes, but we hurt ourselves some more with the hurt they cause us.

      Try, if you can, to gently move yourself away from wanting her to be who you need her to be for you, and understanding that she’s a mess, she will never understand that because she can’t (narcissists just can’t – it’s part of their disorder and what caused the disorder), and that’s who she will always be.

      She will never apologise, regret things, show sorrow, be responsible… not in the way that you want her to do those things. She may do it the way some narcissists do it, but it will always be done in the way that narcissists do it – not the way you want it to be done for your benefit.

      It hurts. Hurts deeply. And may hurt forever… but that kind of forever can ease into a more liveable time. You’re still in the raw. That rawness amplifies your wounds.

      You will survive this, and one day you’ll look back on it and wonder about many aspects of it. Mostly you’ll wonder why you thought she was as important as you think she is now. But you’re not there yet. So just give yourself some time and breathing space.

      Take good care of yourself.


      • After her breaking into my emails again on the 8th and emailing me, It made me realize this is real, and I have to accept it. It made me finally find myself again. Hard to explain, but it’s like I immediately woke up from a bad dream. I’m not saying I have it all figured out, but at least I’m at a better place than I’ve been. I wanted to thank you for all your support, guidance and encouragement Ursula. My laptop caught a virus, so I can’t streamline video, but I still hope to see you at the movies. Thank you for everything again.


      • I cannot change my secret question and its what she has access to. I don’t know why I didn’t think she would break in again, but I probably didn’t. I closed all accounts down except for the one, to spew and spin in. Problem solved, or probably not. Her behaviour is having less and less impact on me. i don’t want her to mean anything to me, and that’s the problem. I’m hardest on myself for knowing knowing, but how could I? If I’d known, I probably would have been bite so hard, but that’s here nor say any more. I still get disappointed, angry and have difficulty understanding and accepting she is what she is, and does what she does, but it’s fading. Hopefully a fuller acceptance will be the outcome.
        Thank you Ursula as always.


        • Thank you for sharing 🙂

          It’s because narcissists are adept at finding out our secrets that they get access to us in a way which makes it hard for us to let go of them.

          You might find these articles interesting:

          They both touch upon our side of our entanglements with narcissists and how they draw us in and keep us stuck in their web. It takes a while to disentangle ourselves, but we can do it, and we come out wiser because of it.

          Disappointment, anger, the struggle with all the variations of pain… it’s a part of the process of living. A relationship with a narcissist brings it sharply into focus, and forces us to face it, learn from it, deal with it, and in doing so we grow and become more accepting of life, ourselves, and our experiences of being. It can give a greater empathy for the world and how it is.

          Keep on keeping on!


          • I just find it disturbing that she would break into my emails and then profess her ‘love’ for me thereafter as I’m sure she’s banging away with her next victim.

            Funny how you would recommend these as I’ve read and subscribed to them recently.

            Thanks for the encouragement.


          • She’s nothing but a dirttbag whore. I would honestly like to drop her off in a desert or forest somewhere and tell her if she fucked with me again, she wouldn’t come back next time, but this would do no good with this person. I find sex sacride, unless both parties agree it’s strictly for pleasure. Any suggestions to get over this hurl and literally hurl?


            • You already know what needs to be done, and it doesn’t involve doing anything to her, but doing things for yourself, like giving yourself time to move through the stages of grief and that it will take a while. It requires accepting that she is the way that she is and there’s no changing any of that. She did what she did, she will continue doing what she does – you can’t change her, and you’ll never get her to see what you want her to see. She will never be who you want her to be. You know this intellectually, but your heart still wants to turn back time, and make the past different, make her different, make yourself different. You’re still dreaming of a happy ending, where pain and hurt and betrayal don’t figure in it. We all do that, even narcissists do that, but they actually think they can do it by doing more of the stuff that they always do.

              She breaks into your emails because she loves you. But she doesn’t love you in the way that a healthy person loves another, her love is that crazy twisted mess which narcissists call love. Which is more like hate, and definitely obsession.

              I thought you were going to take a trip away from it all, that’s quite a good idea. Changing all your emails is also quite a good idea. Cut the ties to your past with her bit by bit, find your future with yourself. If you feel like hurling, perhaps you need to stop ingesting crap. I often feel like hurling after dealing with a narcissist (it’s one of the ways I recognise them). Take a while though to do what is good for us, especially if you’ve gotten used to doing things which are bad for you to cope.

              Take care of yourself, living well is the best revenge and the path to escaping their crazy. You may never physically be free of her, but mentally and emotionally you can be.


              • ‘Happily ever after?’ That was lost at whoredome while she was pregnant. I’ve grown a deep hatred for her, although I know it’s not serving. The trip won’t happen until next year when I can get affairs in order.


                • It’s not the conventional kind of happily ever after, it’s just a hope for something that never was but which we wished could have been. Happens quite a bit when we try to deal with the chaos of a narcissistic relationship.


        • You van change your secret question. Call customer service if you can’t find the right place to access it. Sometimes they need to do a reset.


  3. Hi, I went out with a guy for four months and now looking back he had all the classic signs of a narc, but I didn’t realise! From the way he sucked me in with so much romance, asked me to be his girl friend straight away (you’re all mine he said )constant sweet talk / texts, how he wished he’d met me years ago, making future plans, amazing dates he kept planning, a holiday, his past (a lot of unhealthy relationships, all his ex’s where physco’s, still angry with one ex, cocaine addiction, cheating on ex wife several times which I think he regretted telling me as he was drunk when he confessed this to me) his over confidence, him having a rage on friends, his ex, a stranger in the street who he nearly had a fight with whilst we where on a date and ultimately me! The last two weeks of our relationship changed! He was so loved up with me for the first three and a half months !I’m pretty independent and didn’t want to jump in with two feet so kept the dates to 2/3 times a week! Whilst keeping my plans going with friends and family! It went from begging to see me to cancelling at last minute! This had happened a few times before, without so much as an apology! All of a sudden he wanted things on his terms! It was complicated as he had a son, so I was trying to be flexible! Him having a son was never ever an issue for me an I had even met him a few times and enjoyed getting to know his son. Anyway without going into all the details, he messed me around on two occasions ! On the first occasion I got the silent treatment for four days till I cracked and contacted him! We normally spoke every day! He’d made firms plans with me over Easter to go out on a date and also hang out with his son on another day! He canelled by text on the Friday, not even saying sorry! I tried to talk with him to sort it out! And tell him that It wouldn’t work if he couldn’t be considerate. If he wanted me as his girlfriend he couldn’t treat me like that! I knew I was trying to be understandable about him being a dad, but I just knew he was using this to Make me feel bad! At the time though, he deflected a lot of the blame on to me and said I reminded him of his ex’s (who he calls physco’s) I ended up not standing my ground as much as I could have! He made me feel so guilty at the time! I could tell he was angry with me, would not stay at mine and when I asked if he’d missed me to lighten the mood he said he couldnt answer me! In the end I give him the option to end it if he wasn’t happy as he said I’d made him feel very awkward, rather than drag it out! He said he wasn’t going anywhere! Anyway two weeks later similar thing happened over plans, I was trying to determine a time and where we where going on our date with him on the phone and he just lost his rag with me again, shouting! Called me selfish and said I was keeping him on the phone! I told him he was over reacting ! He ended the call abruptly saying just leave it! He text me later to say ‘ he was staying in, let’s talk in the week’ Them two last weeks I felt so anxious, his calls and text where not consistent. I was very much getting ‘ill do as I please attitude’ from him! I started reading about narcissists and so many things rang true! I was frightened of his sudden unpredictable behaviour! I knew that although he give me the impression he wanted something serious, he couldn’t do an equal relationship! And what he told me of his past, he couldn’t with his ex’s either! I knew I’d never be happy! I suspected he was all of a sudden playing games with my emotions! Blowing hot and cold! It went from so keen, to ‘if you like’ if I suggested stuff! I knew he was a dad but as I said before I was understandable and it was never an issue before! He had mentioned about taking me to visit his family in his home town the last time I saw him, but somehow his words and actions no longer added up! I didn’t know what to say after his last text! I felt he’d been disrespectful the way he spoke to me, and no apology in the text! So I didn’t respond ! I thought if he wants to call me with a personality transplant and try and sort things I didn’t want to be with him any longer! That talk never ever happened! I was to frightened to contact him incase he tried to say I was being a physco! Or if I text him, I’d get the silent treatment ! And part of me thought I’m not chasing again after the way he spoke to me and me giving him the olive branch the first time! I feel like he was trying to create drama to get his own way or get out scot free! It was such a shock! Even if he didn’t want to be with me I thought at his age 41, he would tell me in a civil way! He used to praise me that I was grounded and told me so many personal things!, i couldn’t understand why he couldn’t speak now! So it’s been seven weeks and neither of us have made contact! I have been so bewilded he could just cut me off like that! He admitted his life has been chaotic for the past ten years, but apparently I helped him deal with life so much better! He hadn’t been so clean from cocaine and stopped drinking so much! But I could see that chaos creeping in to our relationship! I want a healthy relationship with someone and I also have a sick mum so I just knew I can’t be in a crazy relationship with anyone! Can you offer any thoughts or advice ! Did he walk away because I was trying to establish some boundaries and I’d also made negative comments about cocaine and his past cheating? He had used cocaine in them final weeks and suspected he’d been out on another occasion and took it but couldn’t say because he had changed plans with me! I think the honeymoon faze was coming to an end and he’d mentioned he was worried about out first arguement cause it would break his heart! Not long after, he was letting me down and we where arguing!!! Do you think I did the right thing by ignoring his message and walking away without any closure! I really did sense he would get angry again if we’d spoke and I wouldn’t get a straight answer from him! Two weeks later I checked the on line dating website where we had first made contact and he was already on line looking for Someone new! Apparently he hadn’t been so happy in ten years until he met me! Umm works and actions don’t add up! For now I’m trying to stay busy, and remind myself that I’m on the right path! I miss him as I hadn’t felt like this about anyone for nearly 20 years and I’d never been with anyone who had been so loving! But I don’t miss the other side of him that I saw in them last two weeks! Didn’t want to understand, angry, didn’t want to to compromise and quite cold! X


    • Thank you for sharing 🙂

      Yes, I think you did the right thing for yourself, you trusted yourself and respected yourself. If you’re in any doubt about it, read what you’ve written in your comment. If someone else had shared this story with you, would you not agree that the right course of action was taken?

      You can find out more about the chaos which a relationship with a narcissist can cause, in mind, heart, and life, from this blog – – Kim writes many posts about romantic relationships with narcissists, and about the self doubt which comes from breaking up with a narcissist, because when they are being good they are wonderful, and it can be addictive, it can make you doubt all the horrible things they do, perhaps even blame yourself for the way they’ve treated you and make excuses for them. Convince yourself that they’re not all that bad, and perhaps you’ve been unfair, and other things like that, as pointed out in this great post –

      Missing his wonderful side is natural, missing the love you shared and the good side of him is normal, but you do need to keep in mind that the other side of him is a part of him and it’s there to stay. People are who they are, and the longer you know someone, the more they reveal of their whole self.

      Always pay attention to what someone has done in previous relationships, as they are more than likely to repeat the behaviour and pattern. Sometimes people can change, but that usually requires for them to truly want to change for their own personal reasons. They don’t tend to do it for others, especially not if they like that part of themselves, and/or get something from being that way.

      In a relationship we need to be able to love the worst of a person for it to last, but usually we love it because we don’t find it to be the worst. If you don’t like this other side of him, then eventually it would have become an irreconcilable difference. And if he is a narcissist, the worst side will become the dominant side in the relationship. Once the honeymoon phase is over, it’s over and there is no going back. They may turn on the charm, but it will get thinner and thinner.

      Narcissists are always searching for the ideal love, that’s partly why falling in love with a narcissist can be so magnificent at first, because they see you as their ideal lover, that special one, their soul mate who will cure all their problems with your love, you will fix everything for them, and they present the best of themselves and their dream for the perfect relationship. But their vision of ideal love doesn’t stand the test of time, the daily grind of living and being human. Once their ideal love bubble pops, all their fears come out to play and cause havoc. Slowly everything which was perfect about you becomes flawed – but it’s not you who is flawed, it’s them projecting their flaws onto you. Passing their wound onto you.

      Enjoy the memory of the wonderful experience, let that inspire you to find a healthier relationship, and to see how deep and beautiful your love is. Use the other side of the experience to guide you in other ways, to show you what it is that you don’t want. There are many great guys in the world, and much love to be found. The great guys usually are quieter about it, and don’t tend to come on so strong – that coming on strong is often a sign that someone may be a narcissist. Narcissistic love tends to be an all or nothing, sweeping you off your feet with big gestures, then dropping you at the slightest problem. Narcissistic love makes you feel so good for a short amazing time, then the rest of the time it feels awful, like there’s always something wrong with you and you need to try harder, change, be this or that but never yourself. It is also all about them, and never about you. What they want, need, and need you to be for them, and whatever it is is never right or good enough. Love becomes a quest to win their love, and each day the goal post moves further and further away.

      This is also an interesting blog –

      Take care of yourself, and trust yourself, your instincts are good and are protecting you. I know it hurts, and you miss him, this is natural and normal. Give yourself time to process everything, and allow yourself to learn and heal from the experience.

      Best wishes!


      • Thank you so much for your comments! It really helps, as a lot of people don’t understand! They just say ‘oh get over it’ but it’s been pretty tough these past few weeks! I’ve thought about him everyday!

        I do find it hard to know if I took the right course of action, because he just tried to make out I was being unreasonable cause of his son! I knew deep down this wasn’t the case! But i I didn’t bothered arguing the case, after the first time I knew he wouldn’t understand ! Him being a dad had never been a problem at the beginning an we’d aggreed that i would get to know his son more! And we talked about me not staying over when his son was there! I completely aggreed with this and even guessed what he wanted to talk to me about! I knew his son didn’t need to see his dad in bed with some woman he hardly knew!! As time went by though, the last six weeks dispite us saying I would get to know him better I just never saw him! He kept us separate! I was actually trying to meet him earlier on that last day we last talked on the phone so I could see his son, and I’d not seen my ex all
        Week and he was busy rhyme next day so thought it would be nice. He started going the gym more to, and I felt like there was some kinda time slots thing happening! I would have loved to have Sat down with my ex and ask him what he wanted from our relationship!! But then I only began to feel uneasy the last two weeks as I thought we were totally on the same page! He was loved up, I was too! He asked me if I was happy and he said he was so happy with me!

        One of the things I struggle with is , how can I enjoy the memory of him and my experience, when in hindsight I suspect this was all a facade in order to try and manipulate me! Get things on his own terms sooner or later! It feels like the whole things been a lie! I used to think he staired at me so intensely cause he fancied me, but now I see him looking at me like pray!! Creepy! How can I trust anyone else after falling for him? The thing that confuses me the most, he acted so caring, so how could he just vanish without so much as a good bye?! He clearly didn’t care! I think though I have learned some signs to look out for now thank god!

        I will definitely be looking at peoples past more! At first he painted himself as the victim and I felt sorry for him in a way! He said his wife ended up with one of his mates! It wasn’t until later I learned the whole story ! I thought you shouldn’t judge someone by their past but I think different now! He almost blamed his wife for his cheating!! That she bossed him!! He didn’t fancy her or like her! And he was more worried about telling his parents he was divorcing! Not hurting her! I spoke with him about being faithfull in our relationship and he assured me he would! I told him if you feel like you can’t, you speak to me, we go out separate ways and move on! He was embarrassed he’d let slip ‘his dirty secrets’ as he called it!

        He said his past girlfriend had boarder line personality disorder and wouldnt allow him to leave the relationship! He claims she threatened to tell his friends partners that they had cheated! So he stayed! He said he was in therapy for the last year he was with her! They took drugs together and he was pretty much doing it everyday, even in work!! Reading between the lines I think she dumped him once she found someone new! I could sense he was very angry about this! I was meaning to talk to him
        Properly about it but didn’t get the chance.

        I just can’t believe I ended up with someone like this! And he walked away Scott free after creating some drama over something so small, thinking ,the sun shines out of his bottom! I didn’t even tell him how disrespectful he was ! Although I did tell him he was over reacting and he was selfish when he lost his rag on me! He’s a very successful man, with money! This doesn’t really interest me to be fair! I have my own lovely home and been all over the world, I’m very lucky! But i just have a average job. But I would much rather have my life, than his! He seems messed up! Him telling me all his problems has pretty much frazzled my brain !! At least now I’m away from it and can concentrate on more important things! My mum has cancer that can’t be cured! I knew when it ended with my ex, that life is way to short to have a relationship like this! I owe it to myself and my mum and I’m grateful I only had two weeks of horrible treament ! It could have been a whole lot worse like his previous partners!!

        Thanks again xx


        • You’ve highlighted one of the many problems which all those who’ve been in a relationship with a narcissist come up against – when you try to share your story with others, others just can’t understand unless they’ve had a similar experience. They tell you to ‘get over it’ or ‘move on’ and many other typical statements which others give when they think being in a relationship with a narcissist is like being in a relationship with a regular person.

          A relationship with a narcissist is difficult to ‘get over’ and ‘move on’ from. There are many complexities which keep you caught up in it even when the narcissist has ‘moved on’ from you (which they may only do superficially, while keeping you hanging on), even when you’ve ‘moved on’ from them.

          It’s a mind f*** as well as an emotional roller coaster.

          Trying to make sense of what has happened often keep us stuck in it, because everything involving a narcissist is illogical, but our logical reasoning wants to make it logical.

          Have you read my post – – in it I tried to explain (sort of) how we end up in relationships with narcissists. What attracts them to us, what attracts them to us, and things like that.

          For the best article on Narcissism, I recommend this –

          His love for you was not all a facade or sham.

          I know a lot of sites which write about narcissists claim everything narcissists do is calculated and manipulative, and their love is deliberately fake. This may be true in some cases, especially if the narcissist is actually a sociopath with narcissistic tendencies rather than just a narcissist. Many people confuse ASPD with NPD, because of the crossovers between the two. They see Hannibal Lecter or Patrick Bateman where actually it’s Forrest Gump or Walter Mitty. They see a deliberately manipulative and cunning a-hole, where actually it is an opportunistic manipulator, childishly cunning, who is desperately trying to make the world and everyone in it be who they want them to be by selling others what others want to see and hear.

          From my experience of narcissists (mostly my parents) they believe their own fantasies, especially their fantasy of love, which is why their fantasies seem so real. When they fall in love, their love is real – it’s just not real real, it is a fantasy which seems real to them and therefore to you – but they don’t know that. They manipulate themselves too – many people don’t get this aspect of NPD, because it’s too confusing. People prefer to make things black and white – NPD is not black and white.

          Narcissists love you for real until you’re too real for their unreal version of love. Until you disappoint them, and ruin their fantasy, by being a real person rather than their illusion of you. When you ruin their illusion of you, you ruin their illusion of themselves… and that causes all the horror and fears they’re trying to hide form to rise up.

          They are the eternal child, who believes in magical thinking, and lives in fairytales… as long as you support this, they’re happy. have their happily ever after forever and ever. Just don’t mention reality, trash which needs taking out, bills which need paying, consequences, responsibility, accountability, and other things which spoil the fairytale.

          He loved you while you embodied his perfect fairytale love. In that time his love was real. What caused it to become unreal was when reality demanded him to face things which he doesn’t want to face. For a narcissist this is a crisis point, which causes them to shift, especially shift blame. Everything they can’t handle (which healthy people can handle) becomes a source of problems, the fault of which never lies with the narcissist.

          He used his son to blame you for problems – if he’s a typical narcissist parent, his son will get blamed for the break up as much as you have been blamed for it (and it doesn’t matter if the son is young and didn’t do anything to cause anything, same with you). Everyone except them gets the blame for the end of their fantasy version of love, life, themselves. So everyone else has a personality disorder… except them (although they’re the common denominator and focal point for all their problems).

          Narcissists can make you believe that you’re the mess that needs fixing, the flaw which broke their mirror, the imperfection which ruined perfection, and if you have any issues hidden within you about this, they inadvertently (for the most part) tap into it – you end up thinking it’s all your fault. It’s not. Your love was real, so was theirs for a while. Your love stayed consistent, theirs never does because theirs is tied up with all their fears, dreams, hopes, delusions and illusions.

          It’s very difficult to make sense of it, and sometimes impossible to figure out, because you’re healthy and normal, and they are not. They sucked you into their world, kind of like going to Disney World. It was great, until it wasn’t – until Prince Charming took a cigarette break.

          Don’t hassle yourself too much. Be gentle with yourself, let yourself adjust and heal in your own time. Getting over a relationship with a narcissist is like going through the 5 stages of grief. So give yourself plenty of space and time, and you’ll be okay.

          Best wishes!


          • I’m really sorry to hijack this thread, but this response exactly describes my relationship Ursula. I ruined her fairytale by questioning all the inconsistencies, dishonesty and disloyalties. It just didn’t add up any more so the jig was up. And they definitely won’t look at themselves. Not in this lifetime. The picture has become far more clear. I had to grieve times 3. I had to grieve who I thought she was, grieve the loss of a dream and future faking. I believe I’m at the end of grieving who she really is. Thank you for sharing.


            • Are you taking this plane to Cuba?

              It’s not so much that they won’t look at themselves, it’s that they can’t see themselves without using us as mirrors. And they don’t always like what we mirrors show them, so that mirror gets cracked.

              You’re going through the process of recovering yourself from having all of you ‘hijacked’ and ‘Stockholm Syndromed’ by another. Grief takes time, and sometimes it is repeatedly felt. You’ll be okay in the end because you’re made of strong stuff. This is how you find out just how bullet proof you are. I know it sucks, but that’s life sometimes… Keep loving Jason Statham! He’s everyman, really!


              • Haha, it’s funny you should mention Walter Mitty! It’s one of his favourite films and he made me watch it again with his not long before we split up! Yeah, these people, it’s like trying to make sense outa the senseless!! Your response almost makes me feel sorry for him!! I know I have to let it go and be proud I walked away! I just could to be bothered explaining for a second time his self centred behaviour! If I had to explain again, I may as well be banging my head against a brick wall! He’d wall ready made me feel like to jealous, selfish girl friend once! Which I reassured him I wasn’t! I’d loved spending time with his boy, was caring towards him when he hurt himself, got some little presents for Easter and his birthday and just enjoyed get to know him!! The whole think was the strangest relationship I’ve ever been in! It’s like he tried to groom
                Me to be this fantasy girlfriend! And I fell for someone who wasn’t real! Your right, as soon as I had a tiny problem, bang! Crisis! And he knew it would happen sooner or later cause he said he was worried about our first argument as it is going to happen and it would break his heart ha!!
                Thank you a million times over! So good to speak with someone who understands! Instead trying to explain to friends! Which doesn’t really help cause you just end up feeling more negative!

                I have to be proud I walked away too!

                And for now, remain positive! So positive things will come into my life!! And maybe it’s already working as I’ve been asked out on some dates with a couple if different people! Who don’t seem full of there own self importance!!! Baby steps for now though! Onwards and upwards!
                Thanks again! Good luck to everyone else dealing with this xxx


    • Thank you for sharing 🙂

      Trying to get a narcissist to do anything which they don’t want to do is quite the conundrum. Usually it requires trying to convince them subtly that what you want them to do is something they want to do, in others words they have to think it is their idea to do it. So if you want a narcissist to move out, then you sort of have to get him to decide that he wants to move out, often by doing things which make him not want to live with you.

      I know that sounds manipulative, because it is. If you’re not a manipulative person it can be difficult to use this kind of tactic. Being honest and straightforward is the best way to be usually, but with a narcissist it may cause complications because of the way that they are and how they perceive other people to be based on themselves. They are clever, but can be intensely stupid when it serves them to be that way. If they don’t like what you’re telling them when you’re being honest and up front, they’ll just play dumb and ignore you – not take you seriously – because they don’t want to hear what you’re telling them. It does not fit into what they want, and what they want is all that matters to them.

      He likes living with you, so he’s not moving out. And he probably thinks he can change your mind, that you’re just going through a phase, and other things narcissists tell themselves to shut out everyone else’s reality from their version of it. He is being dismissive of you – that’s what narcissists do until you give in to their wishes.

      This article might help – – especially the part which gives advice on how to get what you want from a narcissist, #3 in particular – ‘Persuade the narcissist that he or she will derive something significant from doing what you want.’

      Often what happens when you no longer want a narcissist in your life is that they want you more because you don’t want them. They tend to cling harder to those who try to get away from them. They are terrified of being abandoned or discarded – only they are allowed to do that to people, people are not allowed to do that to them.

      If you’ve been with him long enough to know him well, and you know what he doesn’t like about people, and maybe why he broke up with others, then use that information to persuade him that he is the one who wants to move out. That’s easier than forcing him out. Although sometimes being firm with a narcissist can also work, you need to be aware of how your particular narcissist reacts to being forced out.

      You basically need to profile him to find out the method which will suit the scenario the best.

      Is he more attached to you or to the home. Is he financially independent or relying on you. Does he have another home to go to or is this it. Is this your home which he moved into or did you move into it together. Would it be easier for you to move out and leave him. If you want him to take you seriously, it might be an idea for you to move out, but if this is your home and not his, that might be difficult. Perhaps you could leave temporarily to get your point across, but that might make things more complicated – narcissists can be territorial and bloody minded, especially when they’re hurt by you. If you hurt a narcissist they often cling to the things which you care about, and if you care about this home you share, he will cling to it and use it against you to hurt you like he is hurting.

      Think things through carefully, then work out a plan.

      Best wishes and take good care of yourself!


      • As I read through these stories of so much hurt, I’m absolutely certain he’s been in my computer. You know how you just know you know? And then the person stupidly uses your words back to you? And I’m not even upset. I just unsubscribe from the ones who responded back. Except here. This is great because I’m just taking notes. I never got rid of the pix but I did stop “hanging out”. But I decided life is too short to try that hard to stay away. We’d naturally repell one another given a week or 2. Every time. I’m simply learning to control the fallout and kerp me safer! We’re on the outs right now but I’m ready to grow some more lol


        • When it comes to relationships, there isn’t a perfect way of doing things, there’s just what is right for us at any given time. Being aware, knowing yourself, and the other person, and the dynamic between you is helpful. Sometimes you just have to do what feels right for you and go for it, whatever it is.

          Life is about living it, and learning from it, and discovering what happens next in our story.

          Take care of yourself 🙂


          • You always have the right words to say. And so does he. And that feels so good deep inside my aching soul. Aching for that positive affection. I have learned to begin doing this for myself. To love me unconditionally means not just saying it, but doing for me what I’ve been doing for him. What we’ve been doing for each other. Giving myself special treats and little gifts when I’ve accomplished something. No matter how small. I am so grateful for him. He’s taught me so much. I’m able to correct my faults, when I’m able to see them. He shows me. It’s never pleasant lol And in the moment I don’t always see how I contributed to this breakdown we’re experiencing. I’ve also discovered that as empathic as I am, I have narcissistic tendencies rofl. How do you like that!?! But I know I work on being a better person. Being with him has taught me to take a, not necessarily, more honest, but more clearer look, so that I can see where I’m maybe monopolizing the conversation or not letting others be who they are i whatever capacity they choose. However it is, I see it quicker and easier. Sometimes I’m able to correct in the moment. It’s awesome. I’m about to get really busy anyways. Work/fun is going to start pouring in and I’ll have to give that my undivided attention until I meet my goal. In conclusion, giving myself permission to h8ld on, has also helped in letting go when he stays away! It’s great. A gradual weaning myself out of this co-dependency that wasn’t serving either of us. And you have been a gift through it all. And babe if you have figured out who this is, like I said, not cool!


            • The most important relationship in our lives is the one we have with ourselves, and when we treat ourselves well, we feel better and that gets passed onto others. The more we accept ourselves, the easier it is to accept others as they are. If we feel bad about ourselves we may treat others badly, and things can get tricky from there.

              Relationships with others helps us to figure out more about who we are and what we are about. Sometimes we learn more when the interaction is challenging, because it makes us pay attention, ask questions, look deeper, self reflect, and we discover new things about us and about others.

              All humans are narcissistic, it’s not always a bad thing to be, there is a healthy side to it too. It’s a good idea to be aware of it. Awareness allows us to be the authors of our own story, gives us more personal power in our lives and in our relationships.

              You’re a soul on a journey, trust your inner map 🙂


  4. So I have been married to a narc for 15+ years…I just didn’t know it until recently. Filed for divorce but I just can’t ignore him. We have two young kids and are in a custody battle. I do ignore him unless it is about his kids. He hasn’t paid much attention to them in 2 years (while he secretly lived a double life) and now he wants close to full custody. I have been a stay at home mom for 10 years and I can’t imagine not being with my children. He is very unfit for parenting and has his girlfriend handling it all. My kids are confused and he is so manipulating, controlling and a bully. How do I communicate with him without him ruling over me or effecting me? We have to communicate because of our children. The kids have seen the mental abuse and I now see him taking advantage of them.


    • Thank you for sharing 🙂

      Sharing children with a narcissist makes things very complex because a narcissist views their offspring as an extension of themselves, as their property (like a house or a set of golf clubs) – and they may use their children to get back at their spouse. They may care more for their children during something like a divorce than they ever did before that time.

      A narcissist often cares about things (and their children are things, a fashion accessory, to a narcissist) because someone else cares about them, and they have an issue with that someone else. If you care about your children and the narcissist is angry with you – what better way to hurt you than by taking your children away from you or using them against you. If they think your children are your ‘weak spot’ then they will hurt you there.

      Ignoring a narcissist isn’t easy because they hate being ignored (only they are allowed to ignore people) and they are very adept at getting attention. If you are deliberately ignoring them, they may notice because this is something they do so they know when someone else is doing it (unless it is very subtle) and it will make them even more difficult and vindictive. They feel entitled to have all of your attention – how dare you not give it to them!

      Communication with a narcissist requires that you learn to speak ‘narcissist’ – they only speak that language, their language.

      I’ve only come across a couple of posts which give guidelines for communicating with narcissists – most articles insist on No Contact, which is good advice except when you can’t go No Contact because of reasons such as having children with a narcissist.

      These are those posts: – this is called ‘How to talk to a narcissist’ and gives advice on how to shift your communication to one which is focused on what a narcissist hears. – this is advice for dealing with a narcissist in a business scenario, but I think some of the points are relevant for personal scenarios.

      As for not letting a narcissist affect you – this is down to you and can be very difficult to do as you have to cut off your feelings when with them. If you don’t want to be affected, you have to remain conscious of this at all times when dealing with them. They will poke, prod, and provoke you until you lose your shit – they use you against you, use your feelings against you.

      This is quite a good post about the ‘games’ they play to get you to lose your focus and self control:

      It takes a lot of self discipline and deliberate control of focus to stay calm around a narcissist. It is important to do so, but can be an uphill struggle because they are very adept at getting you to lose focus and control due to being intensely irritating, irresponsible, erratic and prone to causing a drama out of nothing. Their aim is to get you to be confused, unsettled and emotionally upset.

      This is also worth reading as it covers all aspects of NPD:

      If you can’t stay unaffected, and can’t ignore his ‘games’, don’t worry about it, use it to your advantage. You’ve lived with this man and know him well – which means you know his weaknesses and what makes him lose his shit, what affects him, what he can’t ignore. Use your knowledge of him to benefit you just as he uses his knowledge of you to benefit him.

      Also, makes ‘friends’ with his girlfriend, if that is possible (she may think he’s all that now, but so did you once upon a time, and one day she may realise what you now know). If she’s looking after your children because he can’t, won’t, doesn’t want to… she is an ally not an enemy (at least where your children are concerned). He’s the enemy, not her. And she may help you in a way which things like the legal system won’t and can’t. Remember that narcissists tend to triangulate – get everyone else fighting each other while they get away and manipulate from a safe distance.

      Take good care of yourself, and don’t sweat the small stuff… the small stuff can be very useful!


  5. I just readcyour artical and it was so informative and answered many of my questions and confirmed to me that i am not “delusional”as my husband seems to think.I have known my husband for 35 years and married for 24years.For 33 years he was always respectful and generous.But 2 years ago I lost my job and I started to looking at our bills closely to figure ways to cut back.When I saw some charges I didnt understand I asked my husband what they were and my life has been a living hell since.The man I knew my whole life disappeared that day and a mean and abusive one took his place.I have filed for divorce but still live in same house while the paper work gets filed.At times I am scared of him and his rage.He has convinced my family I am delusional and wants ne to get therapy!My story is long so I will get to the point.Ive uncovered a lifestyle I had no idea was going on and he refuses to admit to any wrong doing.Today he came to me with a proposal to halt divorce.I guess my question is will the man i used to know ever come back and can i ever trust and believe this man?Thank you so much.Mags


    • Thank you for sharing 🙂

      This is an unusual story (and I realise you have only shared the basics of it to keep it short, etc) where the issue of narcissism and NPD is concerned as most narcissists don’t suddenly change after years of being good to suddenly being bad because a hidden aspect of their lives is discovered. Narcissists tend not to play the long con in that manner, and the ‘honeymoon’ period tends to be relatively short compared to the ‘nightmare’ side of being in a relationship with them. They are who they are consistently (consistently inconsistent, amongst other things), it’s usually us who suddenly realise that they aren’t who we thought they were and think they ‘changed’ overnight from hero to villain.

      They rely on others to keep their facade going, and to believe in it.

      35 years of him being respectful and generous… is not usually the M.O. of a narcissist, at least not to those very close to them (sometimes to those who only know them superficially and believe the appearance over the reality).

      So I’m not sure how to answer this, as it’s different from anything I’ve known and experienced.

      I’ve watched narcissists fool others, those in a social context who don’t know them intimately, but knowing a narcissist intimately usually isn’t quite so black and white. They do tend to go from hero to villain overnight, but not after being a hero for so many years without the slightest hint of them being anything else. The shifts between roles are more regular and become a part of the landscape of the relationship.

      He sounds more like a possible sociopath (not the psychopath version of ASPD) than a narcissist, but I’m not a professional and shouldn’t be making such guesses.

      As to whether – “will the man i used to know ever come back and can i ever trust and believe this man?” – I doubt it because you now know that there is more to him than the man you have always known him to be, and that once you uncovered this other side of him he turned nasty and changed towards you – you know too much about his ‘other life’ and ‘other self’ to go back to how things were, how you both used to be, you can’t erase that knowledge and neither can he.

      If you could discuss the situation with him logically between two equals who know the score, then maybe a way forward would evolve out of that, but since he’s refusing to own up to what you’ve found out about him, and is going the route of accusing you of being delusional… this does not look promising for a reconciliation.

      I don’t know what he’s done but you do and you need resolution – if he refuses to give it to you… how can anything be resolved, and how can your relationship resume as normal.

      It sounds as though the rug beneath your world was pulled out from under you… nothing will ever be the same. Can you ever trust him again – or what would it take for you to trust him again? And how would this change your relationship?

      Take good care of yourself, and trust yourself!


      • Thank you for your response.I know deep down that it can never be the same as before.I do believe that it worked all those years because I catered to him and “kept the peace” for the family.I was ok with that most of the time.Now my children are grown and I expected a different relationship with my husband.But the control became overwhelming and he took over bank accounts,let my car die and started doung the food shopping when he fealt like doing it.He cut me off financially and just recently left ne four days with bread and dry cereal.And on day 4 he proceeded to bring home dog food for dogs and nothing for me.The frightening part is his enjoyment at my pain.If you have anymore insight I would truely appreciate it-Thank you again.


        • Thank you 🙂

          It sounds as though he’s using a passive-aggressive manipulation tactic with you to show you who is in control, who is the boss, and to wear you down until you do as he wants you to do, until you go back to being who he expects you to be for him.

          If you have been catering to him and being the peacekeeper, then that is who he wants you to keep being and what he wants you to keep doing. He may also want things to be the same as before, you’ve changed and he doesn’t like it, and he is trying to force you to forget everything and return to being your old self who thinks he’s a great guy and doesn’t know what you know.

          You caught him red-handed and made him look bad in his own eyes by ruining his facade. He refuses to accept responsibility or own up to what he has done. He is blaming you for the situation, and punishing you for discovering and revealing his deceptions.

          Because you rely on him financially, he’s using that against you. Finances are the go-to tool of manipulation for narcissists, sociopaths and other manipulators.

          Manipulators find satisfaction in playing those types of games with people they think have wronged them. He sees himself as being in the right, so he feels justified in doing what he is doing to you, he may even feel self-righteous about his behaviour as he sees himself as being the injured party in the scenario – you were not supposed to find out what you did, therefore it is your fault, and he has every right to punish you for it. If you come around to seeing things his way, accept that he is right and you are wrong, accept his total rule, bow down to him, then maybe he will let you have a cookie.

          However once a manipulator starts down this kind of road, things tend to get worse rather than better. Even if you back off and do everything he wants, give in to his demands, he will always be afraid of you and his need to keep rigid control over you will increase.

          The best thing to do in this situation is to learn as much as you can about manipulators and their tactics, this will help you to understand the dynamic and will give you a certain confidence in dealing with him. Knowledge is power in this instance. Get concrete evidence of what he has done and put it in a safe place, get legal advice, and find a support group.

          If he has isolated you, which is something manipulators tend to do when they want to control people, and you don’t have any friends or family on whom you can rely for help, then joining a local support group or an online one may be the way to go. Getting help from strangers may be easier than getting help from friends and family as those who know him may think he’s a great guy and may be under his influence. Those in a support group will have experience of being in a similar situation and may offer you invaluable assistance especially of the practical kind – those in your local area may be able to recommend a lawyer, legal aid and other resources, and other people who can offer you assistance and shelter.

          The idea of going to a therapist is quite a good one, but not for the reasons he suggested. Talking things through, being able to confide in someone and have them listen, be on your side, can be a life saver. The more you understand about yourself at this time, the more confident you will feel in dealing with the situation and his behaviour. A counseling group will show you that you are not alone and that you have rights.

          Articles which may be useful:

          This one gives advice on how to manipulate a manipulator –

          These are blogs offering advice and resources:

          There is a lot of information online, as well as support groups, people who have been through similar experiences. Do lots of research. You are not alone, but you do have to handle this on your own even with support from others, and you can do it, you are strong and intelligent, and you know this man very well, use what you know about him to your advantage.

          Take good care of yourself!


  6. Hi Ursula,

    After hoovering on a weekly basis, I’ve heard nothing but crickets for the past couple of weeks. She’s usually at my door by month 3 with some lame false apology. What gives. Is she done?


    • Narcissists are never done, but she may have a new toy which has her full attention and therefore the old toy is being ignored. Whatever the reason for her silence, enjoy it! And be careful not to provoke contact because the silence is too silent. Focus on all the things you can do and want to do, rediscover how much fun life can be when she’s not in it, and if she eventually turns up, remember you can handle it – you’ve come a long way!

      Take care of yourself!


      • It sucks they can just move on without any thought, care of concern, and I’m left with all the ashes.

        Thank always.


        • Ashes are nourishing, so make good use of the richness like a phoenix rising!

          They don’t move on without any care, thought, or concern… but it’s not the kind of thought, care or concern you’d actually want another person to have for you. Remember what it’s like when she comes back and does her routine about how much she loves you and how can you do this to her – that’s what their care, concern and thoughts are all about. Poor, poor her, and what a baddie you are, it’s all your fault, blah, blah, blah… she’ll never give you what you want from her, she can’t, she’s a narcissist. It always has to be all about her.

          She’s taught you what love is not about, and those ashes will nourish your next love which will be everything this has not been. You now know that you deserve to be loved, cared for, thought about, in a way that she never could give you. That is a big something which will grow from those ashes.

          Sometimes we have to go through the worst so we know how to recognise the best. Life is strange 🙂


          • I honestly think she’s done. She knows the gig is up. Even her revenge campaign has shown no fruits for her labour. My birthday is next month so I don’t believe I’ll hear from her until Christmas. I’m sure she has a new sucker so I’m happy to have time and space. i do miss my little one, but it’s time to make money to make my next move. Time to retrain my body and brain. Jason Stratham full course ahead.


            • I saw one of those Keep Calm posters with – Keep Calm and Love Jason Statham. 🙂

              Keep doing what you are doing, taking care of yourself and claiming back your freedom and power. If she does turn up like a bad penny, you know you can handle it.


              • Lol. I’ll have to look out for that poster and purchase it when I see it for reminder. I’m a bail agent, so money will be hard fought and solely endured. I can’t help to want to seek revenge. Not against her, but against those who knew what they were doing. I’m laying low for now, but covert is turning to the overt in my mind. Hopefully time will dissipate my thoughts of returning punishment.


                • Concepts like revenge and ‘returning punishment’ are natural and normal for humans, we all feel it, doesn’t mean we act on it, but we may fantasise about it – that can help. Which is partly why we love Jason Statham and films like the ones he does.

                  When it comes to a relationship with a narcissist – revenge is their daily bread even when it is totally ridiculous. They often pay us back for loving them… which is seriously twisted. They’re always hell bent on some kind of payback… often for slights to their very delicate and hyper sensitive ego.

                  You’ll probably never quite lose that edge… that secret wish to see her get her comeuppance. You could mitigate it by telling yourself that a narcissist eventually effs themselves better than we could ever eff them up… but it can take an age for that to happen, and they always seem to have at least one person who is willing to defend them and sacrifice themselves to protect them.

                  However to get revenge on a narcissist… often requires losing yourself more than they’ve already caused you to lose yourself. And a final victory is never guaranteed, at least not for you – they win sometimes because we want to hurt them.

                  Ultimately the best revenge against a narcissist is living well… getting on with your life and making it about yourself… that’s like kryptonite to a narcissist – how dare you not devote your entire existence to them and their dramas, how dare you do stuff for yourself, excluding them! How dare you get on with your life and do stuff which makes you happy…

                  Want to pay a narcissist back… make them insignificant to you, make yourself your primary focus. Weird… and slightly wonderful!


                  • My desire for revenge is not against her. I understand she’s already stuck in misery and sufferance, but my desire to seek revenge against those who knew better is overwhelming.


                    • I get that, but often those ‘who knew better’ didn’t know better and proved it with their actions. They may have been as delusional as a narcissist (they may also be narcissistic), and they may have been under the influence of the narcissist as you once were.

                      As galling as it may be to remember the time that you were under the influence of your narcissist, it helps to keep things in perspective when dealing with others. The bubble may have burst for you, but for others the bubble is still intact, and everyone has their reasons…

                      Many years ago someone came up to me and told me how crazy my mother was. I didn’t listen because I couldn’t listen at that time – I was too stuck in my role as my mother’s little soldier and protector. And besides listening to them at that time would have dropped me deeper into the hellhole I was already in. Their motives were not altruistic – in fact they had simply switched sides in an ongoing war between my parents. They joined my father’s team after having been on my mother’s.

                      This person had once thought the sun shone out of my mother’s ass, and had I tried to warn them about her then, they would not have listened. Just as if I had tried to warn them about the perils of joining the other side, they would not have listened.

                      This person wasn’t telling me the awful truth about my mother to help me, they were telling me because they wanted me to do something for them. I’m not sure what they expected me to do with the information, they certainly didn’t consider the position I was in, or what would happen to me, they may have just wanted to avenge themselves on my mother and were trying to use me as my mother used me, as my father also used me. They were definitely being used by my father to get at my mother.

                      However they weren’t really on my father’s side, just as they hadn’t really been on my mother’s side – they were in it for themselves, and were actually part of that faction known as people who benefit (or think they will benefit) from the drama which narcissists create. This person was very ambitious and saw a way to advance themselves in life through other people.

                      Getting back at those who aided and abetted a narcissist is about as satisfying as getting back at a narcissist. Those who are delusional remain that way for their own reasons… until they choose to see what they have refused to see. So whatever you do to them will probably only backfire on you and convince them that they were justified.

                      Best revenge is taking what you know and using it to live well. These people aren’t worth your time, trouble or attention – they’ll end up screwing themselves at some point, those who get involved with narcissists usually do. I certainly did, and it woke me up. Hurts like hell to wake up… best thing ever though.

                      The idea of revenge is better than following through on it… even if in films it looks really good, and feels great to watch.


                    • I’ve honestly already been there covert and it feels good. Always sick a bigger fish on a sick fish, and it handles itself. I’m not looking to bring her down, but know she will eventually bring herself down.Patience is my greatest virtue with this but not holding my breath. My lock was broken into today, so this song is is dedicated to the whore hole I’m dealing with.


  7. Hi I am a little confused. I was in denial earlier when my narcissist boyfriend disappeared on me for no apparent reason and I have been reading up a lot on the disorder. I am confused because I havnt got any straight answer for myself and it would be great if you can help.
    We have been in a long distance relationship for 2 years and yes there have been cases of him putting me down or critising me on little things and making it my fault during fights and not entirely resolving problems. Putting me down for him was a joke and so I would joke back with him the same way. Although we would fight and resolve I could send that he doesn’t entirely take accountability but I would settle with it. He has been attentive to my needs, flown me to various cities to meet him, and he has traveled to mine with asking him to,bought me things that I like and even surprised me with a phone I wanted and was collevting money for my bday. Anyways to jump forward he has been open to me about his condition. He has told me about his childhood issues and the mother son strained relationship while growing up. He has shown me his reports and shared all this thoughts and I have always told him how wrong it is to think like that or that he needs to be more sensitive. I have in fact also told him at times to treat disputes as a business deal so that he can be in control of emotions etc and he has heard me out. Never turned around and fought back or disappeared on me. Im confused on why would he do that. At present he is currently fighting a custody battle with his ex ( scizophernia) and yes iv seen clinical reporta of that too and for the past one month been distant. When I took this up with him he would pay more attention to me, but somewhere I wasn’t convinced in my mind. One night he went out with friends and normally we would inform each other but he didn’t and when I got to know the next evening I questioned him n since then he has maintained he doesn’t want to speak to me. I thought this was his tantrum so i texted him that night but no reply. I did give him time and then reached out to resolve things even laid down boundaries that it is disrespectful to read my texts and not answer to which he replied saying he has a lot going on and needs his time. I replied saying take care. No reply. 3 days after that I chkd up on him and he said don’t worry I can take care of myself. What does this all mean??


    • He’s probably seeing someone else, time for you to move on. If your aware of his narcissism why are you still hanging on? Narcissism which cannot be helped with drugs and or therapy is an evil presence within the soul. The DSM is looking to add evil as one of it’s personality disorders if that doesn’t tell you something..good luck, take the opportunity to move forward


      • Thank you tony.

        I was holding on only because he never did it before and hence this behavior confused me. During the silent treatment I have had a chance to read up more on the disorder and have started comparing notes. The more I read the more I’m convinced that he is a narcissist mainly because of the way he described his behavior with his ex and not for the way he has treated me. Only the silent treatment at present matches with me. Confusion also came up as his ex is certified schizophrenic so his description of her, or her harassing him the way he described it was a possibility of being real. I knew that they share a very toxic relationship so I always left it as its an extreme case and hence extreme reactions. However as of this morning ie in total close to 2 weeks of staying away by him and 2 days of no contact he messaged saying he is off to Dubai and on the flight taking off bye bye. I have not replied. I am expecting this to be blown out of proportion but I know i am doing the right thing as anyone genuine would atleast show some care,give some explanation on his own or apologize.


    • Hi, thank you for sharing 🙂

      Going by what you’ve shared I would say that this situation, at least on his side of the story, is very complex. If he’s going through a custody battle with his ex, then his stress levels will probably be quite high and that sort of thing has a way of leaking into everything. Dealing with that kind of thing is very tough, and can be draining on the mind, body, soul and finances.

      You sound as though you’ve been very patient, supportive and understanding, and things sound like they’ve been going well in the relationship – all relationships are complicated, and require give and take on both sides, and time to get to know each other.

      If things between you went from being okay to suddenly being not okay, then I wouldn’t take it personally, something is going on at his end of things and he just can’t handle anything at the moment. Maybe things aren’t going well in his custody battle, or something triggered an old issue for him and he’s retreated to his bat cave – men tend to do that, they’re not as comfortable sharing their feelings and problems with others the way that women are, and when things get rough, too emotionally intense, they tend to take a time out by going out with their friends.

      Things may be too intense for him to share them with you at this time, don’t take it personally.

      If he usually replies to your texts, but this time didn’t, then I wouldn’t worry too much about it, and I wouldn’t make too big of a deal about it. He may just need some time on his own, and it has nothing to do with how he feels about you, and is more about how he feels about himself. Men like to deal with their problems on their own, so what he said in his last contact with you is about that, about him needing to prove to himself that he can handle things and take care of himself.

      From your description of him, he doesn’t sound as though he is a narcissist. He may be behaving narcissistically but he’s under a lot of stress and a custody battle can be very painful, and personal pain makes people narcissistic. If you suspect that he is, then you need to consider it, but if you find things which don’t fit, then pay attention to those too.

      Trust your instincts and yourself, and take good care of yourself!


      • Thanks Ursula.

        It feels nice to get some comfort. I do want to give him the benefit of doubt but somewhere I’m not convinced. He had told me that his therapist tght he has bdp with temp hypomania and this was during the divorce settlement. After which he has been goin in for sessions and recently discovered he is a narcissist. He didn’t want to share these reports withe for a while but eventually confessed himself. Given that he has been good to me and been forthcoming of his condition ( which is rare for a N) I thought he is trying. He hates being alone he hates abandonment and that was all very clear in the past few months when he vented about never goin to marry again and the possibility of losing his daughter. As these cld also be normal reactions I felt very empathetic towards him. But the more I read on Narcissism its goes back to re affirming that these are all the traits.also his description of his ex. It may be true but it may also be exaggerated. This morning he just said he is flying out to Dubai and taking off bye bye. This is after 2 days of NC and me saying almost 2 weeks on silent treatment given to me. Wouldn’t a normal person atleast apologize or give an explanation given he has been absent for this long. My instincts are in a constant debate at present so iv chosen to not reply and maintain NC. Am i doing the right thing..? I know he is N but what if he is trying to change? He hates his ‘devil’ side as what he likes to call it. Why would he so open about it with me?


        • If you’re certain he’s a narcissist… and considering his therapist confirmed this… then don’t expect any changes in behaviour, even if he’s trying to change his ways, and accepts that he is a narcissist, admits to it. Kudos to him if he admits to and accepts the diagnosis and wants to do something about it, that’s hard for a narcissist, but it’s a long tough journey to recovery, and narcissists often play games with their therapists.

          NPD is still a bit of a mystery to professionals who deal with those who have it due to the reluctance of those who have it to work with professionals. There are a lot of aspects of NPD which are still being researched, such as its connection to depression in those who have it.

          This is one of the best articles I’ve read on NPD – – as it shows the complexity of it, the possible origins, and is not too harsh on those who have it, however it doesn’t excuse them either.

          What is important for you to consider is how much you are willing to give up to stick by his side. This is a big issue for those involved in a relationship with a narcissist. You love him, but don’t give up more than you are willing to, even if you really love the person who has NPD. Even if he’s trying to change – with a narcissist you can never be sure how much of the desire to change is real and how much is just them wanting to be who they are not. They shed skins and change in a blink of an eye, but they stay the same underneath all the superficial changes.

          If you haven’t already been to this blog – – I recommend perusing the posts on there, the blogger, Kim, was in a relationship with a narcissist.

          I know it’s hard, you really care for this man, can see the good in him, but please take care of yourself.


          • Thanks Ursula. I am trying to be tough and strong. I have had a realisation after reading soo much on narcissism in these past few days. My father is one and so was my first boyfriend with whom I was for 6 yrs. I wasn’t even aware until my current told me about being an N that this condition even existed. I would otherwise look back at my father and my first relationship and think that they are just evil sad and unhappy people who can never live and let live.
            I think I am going to start counselling to put an end to the abuse I keep attracting. I def have become a co dependent because of the non stop abuse all my life and I feel that it gives me a sense of familiarity and normality now. I feel bad that I have a huge void and I didn’t even realise it until now. I thought I was OK but obviously not. I guess maybe that’s why I have been as patient with my current as my threshold for abuse is way above normal people.

            I am willing to take responsibility for myself and bring about a positive change. NC and therapy for me it is. I just can’t do no more.

            Thank you for all the help and the referred material. I am going to be very active on this page as well as the others recommended by you. Wish the best to everyone on a safe and happy recovery!


            • I just feel bad for the N’s and for the ones suffering. Our pasts and childhood issues can make or break us. No person good or bad deserves I’ll treatment. It’s a cycle of abuse for the N and their victims goin forward. Silver lining is for a few of us who have realised and are willing to move forward. Heart goes out to the ones who are still in denial.


            • Sometimes we find out about our past through an experience in the present. Takes a while to put all the pieces together, and it can be tough on us to face things which we’ve kept hidden from ourselves due to needing to. The human psyche is a labyrinth.

              Take your time to work things out, and do what you need to do. Trust yourself to guide you through this experience and everything it opens up. Sometimes the best things in life come out of the worst or the painful things in life.

              Best wishes, and take good care of yourself, enjoy the adventure of getting to know yourself and your life story!


  8. I don’t know if you’ve seen her before, but what she says kinda reminds me how you write. I thought her thinking was quite informative and expansive.


    • Thank you 🙂

      She’s rather beautiful, isn’t she. I hadn’t come across her before. I used to be very interested in stuff to do with energy as it was a popular idea during the New Age, it’s an intriguing concept and subject, and there are many philosophies which refer to it in different forms. It’s fun to explore as it can give new angles and perspectives, and ways of dealing with things. Cool!


      • Yeah, she’s definitely my ‘type.’ I like brunettes with green or blue eyes. My first crush was Brooke Shields, and I had a crush on Liv Tyler for the longest time. Do men prefer blondes or brunettes? No worries, all men love red heads. 😉

        I thought it was a very empowering message. I’m glad you enjoyed it. 🙂


  9. Hi
    I’ve been reading all the posts with great interest, Ive been wondering so much why my girlfriend acted the way she did
    But it seems it’s highly likely she is a vulnerable narcissist
    She is highly intelligent and outwardly a lovely person but as our relationship has grown she’s become harder to get close to, she drew me in at the beginning with a love that was so strong and I responded the same, I thought it was true love, she has always told me that she’s very strong externally but very weak inside, she told me from the start that ‘she will be I charge’ (I’m an easy going bloke and don’t care about who’s in charge!)
    She was brought up by her older sister as a child, as her mother had issues, she doesn’t react well to criticism and will not stop until I’m proven wrong in an argument
    Recently we’ve broken up, I said something stupid and upset her I’ve apologised profusely and the more I apologise the more she backs off, if I back off she messages me more!
    If she is a vulnerable narcissist was the love she showed me not real? How can I help her?
    Do I ask her straight about it? Or do I put it behind me and move on (I am still very much in love with her)
    Your help would be greatly appreciated


    • Try this. Ask her what her goals are and is there anything in her life she wishes to improve upon,,,,,her answer should give you a pretty good idea who/what she is….if her response is void of anything concrete, well your hunch was correct. GLTY


      • Thanks for that
        When she starts speaking to me again I will!!!!!
        But if I’m honest we had made lots of plans
        But I’m guessing that was just part of the ploy
        I’ve done alot of research tonight this is all very scarey 😦


        • John, it is very scary, you’re right. I remember the moment I realized my boyfriend (ex-boyfriend when I figured it out) of 5 years was a narcissist. It a crushing blow in all areas of your life. There is the revisiting the whole relationship with clearer vision which is very hurtful. Then the, “how can I possibly trust another human being ever again”, and finally the anger. It gets better, I promise. The best thing you can do for yourself is stay away, take some time to focus on you and what you want out of life.


    • Thank you for sharing 🙂

      It can sometimes be difficult to tell if someone is a narcissist or not. People can be narcissistic without actually being narcissists.

      A good resource for NPD traits and behaviours is this one –

      And even if we think someone is a narcissist, doesn’t mean they actually are one, we just may experience them that way.

      This is an article I often recommend –

      Relationships are complicated, especially when we fall in love – love can cause hidden issues to surface. Issues which were hidden because we didn’t feel safe enough to face them, but love creates a sense of safety and those issues come forward to be confronted. Basically when we fall in love, we experience a rush of self love which can trigger fears within that have been latent, and this can cause disruption to our love life, to how we think love should affect us.

      I have a friend who sabotages their love life, whenever they fall in love and especially when it is a love returned, because they’re afraid of not being able to live up to what they think the person who loves them expects of them. They feel unworthy of the other person’s love so they sabotage it.

      This is also worth a read –

      The expectation of love, which we have of love and those we love, and which we have of ourselves and think those who love us have of us can cause a lot of issues in the smooth flow of love in a relationship.

      We can all be narcissistic in love, and it can be hard to discern if the narcissism which we detect is ours or the other persons, and if it is natural narcissism or NPD.

      If you think she may be a narcissist, you need to assess why you think that. What is it exactly that caused you to suspect her of being a narcissist? What guided your online investigation?

      There are many types of narcissist, and Narcissistic Personality Disorder has a sliding scale from mild to extreme.

      This is a good article about narcissism in all its forms and what may cause it –

      And this is a well written article about the ‘vulnerable’ ‘sensitive, Covert type of narcissist –

      You need to understand your own story as well as hers, a relationship is always about both people, not just about one person.

      This is an interesting take on love –

      If she is a narcissist – her love is real, it’s just a narcissist’s version of real love which can be rather unreal. Narcissists tend to seek an ideal, perfect, kind of love, the kind often found only in romantic novels and films. The person they love is idealised, put on a pedestal… and they experience disappointment very easily, you can fall off the pedestal and when you do they are inconsolable. You let them down, you’re not who they needed you to be for them, etc.

      If she is a narcissist, there is absolutely nothing you can do for her, she is wrapped up in her own version of reality, of you, of herself, of life, of love. She is unreachable, however if she’s a real ‘vulnerable’ covert narcissist, then she will give you the impression that she can be saved, but only by a worthy hero, knight in shining armor. A ‘vulnerable’ narcissist is the Princess in the Ivory tower who tests your love by sending you on impossible quests to win her love and hand. It’s rather exciting at first, as the narcissist makes love a quest about proving your worth and love, and that can be hard to resist (especially if your personal story includes this as an element). Can you be the hero and save the day, rescue the damsel in distress?

      The answer is no, because the damsel likes being in distress, and if you manage to complete the quest, save her, you may find yourself transformed into a dragon, a villain, from whom some other hero must save her.

      If she is a narcissist, and a covert ‘vulnerable’ one, you won’t be able to discuss anything with her, if you try you will only end up frustrated, confused, blamed for everything. Narcissists love to talk, love to talk about love, are obsessed with love and talking about it, but they really don’t deal well with real love, they only want fantasy love – which is why the early stages of falling in love with them and them being in love with you are so incredibly delicious. It’s a dream come true… however they can’t handle it when the dream needs to get real and include the less dreamy aspects of real love.

      If she isn’t a narcissist then discussing things with her might clarify what’s going on. Even if the love between you two is no longer what it was, someone who isn’t a narcissist will understand your need for closure or anything else and may want that too. A narcissist will never give you closure, as far as a narcissist is concerned, they quite like the idea of you pining away for them for the rest of eternity.

      You need to ascertain if she really is a narcissist, or if this is a misunderstanding. Perhaps asking her to share her side of the story might aid in clarifying, but be prepared to listen to a long monologue, whether she’s a narcissist or not. Be prepared to be blamed for things you didn’t do, whether she’s a narcissist or not. Women approach love differently from men, men often have a bit of difficulty understanding what women want, especially when it comes to love. Depends on influences. If she’s a fan of romantic films and novels… things may be complicated whether she’s a narcissist or not.

      If you can get her to talk about it, tell her side of the story, and you’re prepared to listen without interrupting, defending yourself, or zoning out, and have your ears burn with too many words… and maybe not be able to tell your side of the story, or get a word in edgewise… what you hear if you listen will be informative and help to determine whether or not she is actually a narcissist, and what is actually going on with her.

      Male and female communication styles differ and can sometimes cause problems in relationships. You might want to read up on that, there’s a lot written about it because it causes so many problems in relationships.

      If she is a narcissist, you might find this blog helpful – – although many posts on it are written for women who have been in relationships with male narcissists, much of it applies to males who have been in relationships with female narcissists. It mainly focuses on romantic relationships with narcissists, and might be helpful… if your particular lady is a narcissist.

      Ultimately though, be sure to investigate your own story – sometimes our problems with others stem from our own issues, and a relationship with a narcissist stirs those up for us. It’s an opportunity to figure ourselves out, to understand what we want from love and others, and what’s going on within us.

      Best wishes!


      • Wow
        What a great reply
        Firstly I’ve took on board your advice and I’ve already booked to see a councillor and maybe see if the issues are with me.
        Secondly the reason I came across narcissism was I was searching why she would back off if I messaged her but be more attentive if I didnt, I wondered if there was a reason for that.
        I’m really hoping she isn’t a narcissist and that the problem is mine and im looking for reasons to blame her, and that our love can be retrieved (because I feel our initial love was so great, I’m sure it’s still there! )
        But there are many of the traits they have, in her life, I understand that we all have some traits but some of the blogs I’ve read the likeness is uncanny
        I’m quite a caring and trusting bloke and my big doubt is that the love she showed felt very very real we were inseparable, I’m sure I would’ve seen through it if it wasn’t real?!
        I sit here not messaging her because if she is N then I’ll be feeding her ego yet I feel if I don’t message and she’s not N then I may be losing the love of my life and not making the effort to stop it.
        The one thing I know is my love for her is real
        And as such how can I walk away from someone who has a problem and not care or want to help her
        It’s just not how I am
        I am going to try to see if she’ll talk about it and maybe that will help me decide
        But I’m not a DR and can’t help feeling I’m making a diagnosis on someone with no qualifications to do so (I may be totally wrong, I want to be wrong)
        Another problem we have is we are in different countries and can’t just meet to chat 😦

        Thanks again for your advice it is a great help


        • Thank you very much 🙂

          All relationships are a mix of both people, some bumps in the road of love are caused a bit by one person and a bit by the other, some of the problem may be yours and some may be hers – unless she’s a narcissist, in which case she’s the problem. It’s worth exploring yourself either way as knowing ourselves better improves all of our relationships, it improves our relationship with ourselves which makes our relationships with others flow more smoothly.

          If she fits the criteria you have read about narcissists, and what you’ve read causes alarm bells to ring for you, do keep that in mind, however also keep in mind that you need to answer the questions you have.

          If I was you I would go out on a limb and follow my heart, within reason and with care, then you won’t have that regret hanging over you. It might make you a tad vulnerable, however there’s strength in it too as it may be the easiest way to remove doubt – and doubt can eat away at you, so it’s best dealt with head on. I would not worry about feeding her ego, if she is a narcissist she’ll be feeding her ego anyway. How she reacts to your contact may be the confirmation of whether she is a narcissist or not. Sometimes the only way to find out is by taking a chance and seeing what happens.

          The geographical distance is a bit of a problem as you can’t see what’s going on at her end of things, and don’t really know what may be happening in her life, what her circumstances are, as you can only rely on what she says about it, and she may be hiding something. People sometimes love long distance relationships because it allows them a certain escape from their lives. Do you know any of her friends, they might be able to give you a rounder picture of what’s up with her.

          Have you Skyped at all? It helps to see a person face to face, to watch their expressions and body language, to hear their voice and tone.

          What about cultural differences? Is she foreign or an expat? If she is from another country whose culture is different it may have a bearing on the matter.

          Take good care of yourself!


          • Sorry for the delays
            I’ve been trying to have space and take stock of everything
            I’m still very unsure wether my ex girlfriend is a covert narcissist or not my head says she is my heart says not
            He’s a quick question
            Has anyone on the forum ever approached a narcissists ex partner for information or even support??


            • No worries, I never expect people to reply, especially on issues concerning narcissists, you have a lot on your mind, weighing on your heart, and going on in your life right now.

              In answer to your question – Has anyone ever approached an ex-partner of a narcissist for information or support? – Yes, in fact the ex-spouse of a narcissist recently mentioned that they have been regularly contacted by the newly discarded lovers of their narcissist ex for support and information. They found this a bit awkward due to not wanting to paint their ex too harshly and appear like a woman scorned in the process even though what they shared was the truth – which was basically, run for your life and don’t look back!

              It can be a good idea to contact exes of the person whom you suspect of being a narcissist, especially if you’re uncertain and want confirmation one way or another, however it does have to be handled delicately as it can be emotional (as Vinnie Jones in Lock, Stock, would say). You may not get support from an ex, but if she is a narcissist you will get an earful from them, really depends on how things ended. Some narcissists are quite good at keeping their exes loyal to them, others leave a path of destruction and very angry people in their wake.

              It is worth a try, and may be informative, just be aware that it might not turn out as expected, and that you may not get support from them and they may be unpleasant, especially if they were discarded for you by this woman.

              Take care of yourself!


              • Yes you are right I’m not sure it’s a wise move to contact them and I know my ex would go mad wether she is a N or not its probably not the right thing to do.
                I just wish I knew for sure
                She has recently offered me the friendship card, my sceptical side is saying that’s because she trying to keep me close as a source, my sensible adult side is saying that’s what grown ups do when they end relationships.
                This is the problem I’m facing with trying to gauge wether my ex is N or not there seems to valid arguments for both sides that their behaviour is actually very nice (bearing in mind my ex is more likely a vunerable or covert narcissist)
                I’m being strong with no contact thing but that hurts alot and she messages now and then and and tells me she still cares about me and again maybe she’s just a normal girl who does miss me and is hurting at our breakup too and me not being my normal nice self is upsetting her more!!
                So confusing 😦


                • It’s okay to be confused, all of us experience that more often than not especially in relationships whether there is a narcissist involved or not. In fact confusion is a great spur to learning, so don’t worry about the confusion, let it guide you.

                  You’re going to be fine, ’tis but a scratch even if it feels like your arms and legs have been cut off. You’re made of very strong stuff, and maybe this is the way to learn that.

                  This may (or may not) be a useful site for you to explore while trying to figure things out – – I’ve linked you to a Dear Abby kind of article about a male involved with a narcissist female. There is more on that site aimed at men dealing with women who may be narcissists.

                  Take good care of yourself, and be gentle with yourself – this is not going to be easy whatever you do. Trust yourself! You’re a great bloke and you deserve the best!


                  • Hi
                    A little time has gone past since I contacted you last
                    So to update you
                    Contact with my ex is getting a bit less but now she has said she’s coming to my country soon and we’ve agreed to meet for a coffee
                    My friends have said I shouldn’t they say I should just leave her and the heartache I’ve had in the past (I am feeling stronger but still love her and miss her a lot)
                    But my heart says I should see her
                    What do you advise?
                    And if I told her we weren’t going to meet up what do you think her reaction would be (if she does have narcisstic tendencies)
                    I really appreciate your advice


                    • Right now your thinking with your heart and not your head…never a good place to be….So,be on the winning side for a change. Tell her it’s not a good idea for the two of you to meet and just sit back and see how it unfolds. Take control of your life and be strong in your resolve…..good luck


                    • Hi,

                      Here’s the thing – You have to do what is best for you, and you need to ask yourself what that is.

                      For some, avoiding someone they think is a narcissist is the best thing to do. Going No Contact and sticking with it is what they need to do for themselves.

                      For some, confronting someone they suspect of being a narcissist, either confirms their suspicions or alleviates them. In either case it works out for them because they need that final confrontation to decide one way or another.

                      You can’t live your life listening to the advice of others, because even if their advice is good it may not be good for you personally – only you can live your own life, and only you get to deal with the consequences of your life decisions. So, do whatever you need to do for yourself, and be clear with yourself about it.

                      Your friends care for you, they sound like they’re trying to protect you from being hurt more than you already have been, and they probably have been listening to your story about your relationship with this woman for awhile and have seen how much she has hurt you – they don’t want to see you suffer anymore because of her, so they’d like you to move on from her and be done with her. They love you and want to see you happy, and she doesn’t seem to make you happy. If she doesn’t make you happy now, she is never going to make you happy no matter what. If she makes you suffer now, she will most probably always cause you to suffer.

                      You sound like a lovely bloke, and you deserve a lovely lady who makes you feel on top of the world and happy at the very thought of her! Happy about yourself and your love for her, because she’s happy about herself and her love for you.

                      This woman, narcissist or not, makes you doubt yourself in a painful way – that’s not a good sign for a relationship.

                      I’d probably advise you to see her because your heart and mind need to be on the same page about her, they’re still debating and while your mind is set, your heart still hopes she’s going to live up to your fantasy of her – and maybe your heart needs to see her in person to confirm what your mind already knows, or for your mind to confirm what your heart knows. Either way, if I was you I’d tackle this head-on… but I’m a child of narcissists and I know the price which comes with not confronting things and keeping illusions going on longer than we should. So, perhaps my advice is biased by my own experience and may not be good for you.

                      The meeting might make things worse and drag things out because she might be on her best behaviour if she feels she’s losing your admiration. Even someone who is not a narcissist can behave narcissistically when it comes to matters of love, especially if loss of love = loss of ego nourishment. If she’s a narcissist, she’s going to pull out all the stops to keep you hooked, particularly if you’re showing signs of wanting to be free of her.

                      Narcissist 101 – they dump you, no one ever is allowed to dump them.

                      Have you ever watched the UK TV series – Dates ( – there’s a character in it (played by Oona Chaplin) who is a typical female narcissist. She is the perfect lover, men fall for her in an instant (mostly because she’s the embodiment of feminine mystique), and she strings men along but never allows them to get close to her. She needs them to be besotted with her because she hates herself, and their love fills a void but… nothing can fill that kind of void. Beauty can turn ugly veyr quickly when a narcissist is involved.

                      The narcissist is a beautiful illusion of love, the kind of love which fantasies are made of, which can never be real. This woman in your life is a beautiful fantasy – what’s the reality of it and her?

                      If meeting her reveals the reality, then maybe this is what you should do… but make sure it is what you want to do.

                      This decision is yours and yours alone.

                      Take care of yourself!


                    • So a further update
                      Since making plans to meet for a coffee now she’s back in my country tomorrow, but we had 3 weeks with no contact and then she contacted me, it was very formal but she said she was glad I was ok and it was lovely to chat and regularly says she hopes we can be friends.
                      Today I messaged her to say have a safe journey and I told her I was looking forward to seeing her.
                      Her reply was
                      ‘I don’t think it’s a good idea for us to meet, it won’t do either of us any good’ (wouldn’t ‘friends’ meet for a coffee??!! )
                      I think this was very cruel, it upset me greatly but cements to me the fact that she is a NPD, and I’m sitting here now knowing she within a few miles of me but I won’t get to see her.
                      It has given me some closure that I was hoping for, yet I still feel she will message me, if she does I think I need go no contact, I’ve been caught in the narc whirlpool for a while now and I need to get out, but my question is how do you stop thinking about and stop loving someone who you gave your whole heart too???
                      I really want to move on but its so hard 😦


                    • They also like dating sites….that’s where they can garner or their narc supply……..interesting the field of teaching seems to be a path they follow. No one there can interfere with their control and manipulations……


                    • I’m sorry to hear that she lived up to your suspicions, at least now you have confirmation, and your mind and heart can work together on recovering from this experience.

                      She will probably repeat whatever pattern she has established with you, narcissists do the same thing over and over again and again, it’s part of the disorder, and they’re often oblivious to any changes on your part unless it dents their ego, affects them personally and disrupts their patterns.

                      Once you make a definite decision and go NC, you will find that it will help you to focus on taking care of yourself. It will take awhile to stop thinking about her and stop loving her, so don’t pressure yourself to stop. Don’t try to force yourself to move on, it will happen naturally at its own pace, you will gradually find yourself thinking less and less about her, and your heart will find a new love.

                      Narcissists have a way of getting under your skin and into your head, and they can inspire an obsession with them in people. Many people find discussing their experiences with others who have been in relationships with narcissists helpful, as well as hearing the stories of other’s experiences. It helps to know you’re not alone and it can clarify matters which may be confusing. Talking about your relationship, about her, until you get bored of doing it can be cathartic and get her out of your system. Find a support group, go to a therapist, or chat with a very understanding friend. Clearing your mind and heart sometimes just needs for you to get it all out until it becomes clear inside.

                      Give yourself time to heal, be gentle with yourself. You’re going to be fine. 🙂


                    • John, I found out the xnarc I was with had 3 different guys in 3 different cities, and just added one recently in another state. I also caught her on a dating website, but gave her slack at the time because she said, “she forgot about it.” She wanted to see me for my birthday last month after 8 months of no contact, but I already knew she had NPD so I declined. You have that new found knowledge now as well. My best recommendation is to change your number and block her from your email address. Otherwise, it won’t stop. I can assure you of this. I know all too well how much it hurts. Tend to those wounds, and never look back since you have no ties. With time and self-care, you will realize how truly beautiful you are, and she won’t matter any more. Sending you positive energy for a new beginning! As Ursula always says.. Take good care of yourself.


                    • Thanks for your kind words
                      My heart goes out to you though, I don’t know of any other men and don’t want to.
                      But as upset as I am I do feel some strength today and I feel I can get my closure.
                      I already know she’ll be in touch again but today I made my mind up I won’t answer her again
                      Im Usually a happy go lucky, fun and carefree fella, my goal is to get back to being myself again.
                      I’ve learnt a big lesson in the last few months.
                      I’ve had alot of support from this group and I appreciate it.
                      Thank you all


  10. Fack!!! I was going through my emails this morning. I always look forward to your posts. And I opened another one she sent yesterday by mistake. She has so many effn email addresses, it’s hard to keep track! She sent a Nora Jones song with the email saying, Do you miss me or her? You don’t seem to miss me at all.” I truly wanted to respond, Because I don’t! But I just deleted it. I When we first started dating, I told her that I didn’t like listening to Nora Jones because her music reminded me of my ex. 1. Totally the wrong song, and one I never heard. 2. My ex is now married with 2 kids and haven’t spoken to her since we broke up. She used to accuse me of “still being in love with her” all the time when we first dated.

    Sheer fukn madness! I used to defend these accusations prior since I felt it an attack on my character. But now I see it for what it is, as she proves herself to the point of denial no more. It’s just the same ol’ shit. You’re absolutely right.. it’s just play, rewind, repeat. She has already sent me two more emails today. I knew I was playing with fire, and shouldn’t have responded in the first. But it was more of a, let’s see thing. As sick and frustrating as it is, I feel a sense calmness and relief. I got my black tourmaline cross yesterday. It came in a nifty little bag as well. I do feel a little sense of positivity and protection, so I think I’ll get the one that send negative energy back to the sender.

    Thanks for letting me rant. I don’t visit forums any more. I felt it kept me too focused on the narc. I’m over the shock, fear, confusion and realization. I’m onto recovery now. I guess my question is, if she’s already taken me to “final discard,” Why the continued haunting?


  11. I didn’t know where to post this, so I thought I would here. I think I’ve read it before. I don’t read much about narcissism anyone other than the blog sites I’ve subscribed to. But I thought this was a good article. I thought you would find it interesting, and it may help others as well. I can relate to three of the statements, I was most recently was told.

    I hope you don’t mind me posting. Love from across the pond. ❤


  12. Very interesting article! Why does the narcissist want to become us? Is it just because they have no real self and are envious or is it more than that? Do they want to become everyone or just certain people? Is there anyway to get a narcissist to come back after discard? I’ve heard they get worse each time. Why is this? Is it because they’re trying to see how much they can get away with?

    Liked by 1 person

    • Thank you for sharing 🙂

      Interesting questions. My main experience of narcissists is with my parents, so the answers I might give to those questions would vary due to the parent/child dynamic.

      I think the answers vary from narcissist to narcissist and our own experiences with them.

      One of the most intriguing articles I’ve read on NPD is this one – – it’s a long in depth read but you may find it might give insight into the matter.


    • This article is so clear , so on the spot …. it made me break the last ties with a N ex at once. ( after 6 month silence he tried again to contact) i would like to say DO NOT underestimate the effect pathological narcissism has.( i had never eve heard of it before i met him . read my eyeballs out the past months) Even though the last four weeks i kept him at a physical distance , he still tried to get under my skin trying to weaken my nerves. just by texting. People, keep sharing your feelings with people you trust , family , friends …they will be the ones who will keep reminding you of you. My N was all of the above, and more.. he behaved like a enlightened guru , a teacher to pathologies he dreamt up i had. really dangerous because you can easily confuse it with care. but deep down you know !it is very common for them to behave like this. Everything is a fantasy, and an outcome of their feeling of worthlessness and trying to manipulate and control.
      . i learned a lot. it gave me a great sense of strength, bounderies and freedom. the fight is SOOOOOO with it! i support anyone who is in there , send you all a warm heart ! you can do this!


      • Thank you very much for sharing 🙂

        That’s an excellent observation about confusing a narcissist’s need to be a guru as caring.

        There was a person I only knew casually on social media who disappeared then suddenly reappeared, contacting me, and one of the first things they said was that they had discovered they had special healing powers (they saw themselves as a shaman) and they were going to heal me. I was perplexed because the only reason they had contacted me was due to them wanting something from me. I had not asked them for healing (that’s not the sort of thing I would ever ask of someone unless they were a doctor). Shortly after they told me that they were going to heal me (whether I wanted or needed it or not), they got furious with me for something I said online which was unrelated to them but they took it personally, insisted they knew it was all about them. When I tried to set them straight and explain that it was something I wrote about my recently deceased father, they adamantly told me they knew better than I did what I was talking about and nothing I could say would change their mind. They did a typical narcissistic character assassination of me, and turned it all around to make me the bad guy and them the poor wounded soul who only wanted to help.

        The thing I said which set off their tantrum was about how my father only showed interest in me when he wanted me to be interested in him, otherwise he was completely disinterested in me. I have to admit that the more this person insisted this was about them, the more they convinced me that it must also apply to them, and it made me aware that they might be a narcissist as my father was.

        I was at that point where I had had enough of narcissists and their antics, of trying to deal with one in a reasonable and polite manner, appeasing their fragile ego, so I gave them a piece of my mind, stood my ground, and refused to be bullied. They backed off and disappeared again after that. I haven’t heard from them since then. But this was just a casual acquaintance which is very different from when you’ve had a close relationship with a narcissist – once you’ve been close to them they see you as belonging to them, you’re their personal property.

        This author has written quite a few articles on the ‘guru’ type of narcissist –

        Keep doing what you are doing, take good care of yourself!


  13. I did go toe to toe with several narcassists, and I survived. Everyone says not to, but at the time the mind games, cruelty and gas lighting drove me over the edge, and I fought back and sort of won. I got away and regained my sanity and function well now. Im too protected for them to do anything about it I think I saw one of them and I couldnt decipher his reaction, he looked stricken, haunted and traumatized by my presence, maybe hateful too. I turned around paid for my purchase and left. I didnt feel much emotion or pain at all, he seemed much worse for the wear than me. I realized I no longer felt under their control and was happy and calm and went about the rest of my day normally. I dont know what I expected, but I guess they hate losing and being exposed or having destroyed your sanity, hate to see you recover and prove them wrong.


    • Thank you for sharing 🙂

      The advice to not confront a narcissist is usually given because it can sometimes make things worse. It’s one of those life experience pieces of advice given by people who’ve done something and wished they hadn’t done it, and are trying to warn others not to do what they did.

      But there are times when it is exactly what you need to do.

      It’s just that no one is going to want to be held accountable for the consequences of encouraging you to do it. They’d rather tell you not to do it. What you actually do is up to you, and your responsibility.

      Most people who give advice about narcissists and how to handle them tend to generalise because they don’t know you or your narcissist – they don’t want to put you in danger.

      Whatever gets your narcissist out of your life – that’s the way to go.

      Some types of narcissist will run a mile if you confront them, other types of narcissist will see your move as a challenge, a move they need to beat.

      They do hate losing. They hate being exposed. Some will leave you alone if you expose them, if they lose to you. Others may leave you alone for awhile, then come back later – because they never forget someone who made them feel like a loser, feel exposed. Some will retaliate right away, and think they’re justified because you started it (you didn’t, but they’re not good with facts… or at least, they mold them to their version of the story).

      Sounds like you did what you needed to do. You knew your narcissist(s) and yourself, and dealt with them accordingly. Don’t second guess it, or expect more than you got from it. A win against a narcissist can feel like a deflated balloon on a birthday.

      Focus on yourself, take care of yourself and keep on going. Anywhere is better than there.

      Best wishes!


      • Thanks! Im fine with what I did. Its probably like advising someone dont run with scissors, but if a bear is chasing you with scissors and you’ve got scissors in your hand, you’d better run!


        • From the sounds of the situation you were in, being surrounded by a group of aggressively delusional people who were ganging up on you, and not feeling safe in your own home, I’d say that you have some mighty powerful instincts and are very strong.

          The bear in this case took one look at you and ran. It is a win, and it does bring with it a certain satisfaction. The best part of it is knowing that you can trust yourself to get yourself out of a jam, and that you have a natural ability to come out on top. 🙂


          • I love the way you put that. At the time I warned them not to mess with me, but they didnt listen and continued to provoke me despite my broken heart and being betrayed. I was fair enough to warn them, but it did no good. And then I let them have it in a very clever way that broke no laws. I revealed a secret that I felt no loyality to keep any more. They underestimated me and thought I would be too kind to do such a thing. I was starting to be kind to myself


            • “starting to be kind to myself” – that’s the big take-away that finally gave me the strength to break away from my narcissist, Janet, and that is ultimately the “lesson” that I think everyone who is powerfully affected by a narcissist is there to learn. I stopped giving him the benefit of the doubt, and began to give it to myself; I stopped being empathetic to his damaged emotions, and began being empathetic to mine; I stopped trying to understand him, and began to understand myself – to give myself the love that I had been trying to give him. It’s a lesson I am grateful to have learned – even though it was a painful one. All the best to you!!!


              • Youre so right! Standing up for yourself is reclaiming your worth and your power. In fact I told him I had more power than him and that he would never ever best me so dont even try! Turns out it was the truth.


              • The truth is a “normal” person has scoo much more power than a narcassist does. Its all smoke and fun house mirrors. They dont have the ability to be happy. Best to you too!


                • Janet, it’s interesting that you mention “happy” because I’ve had this idea brewing in my head that narcissists are drawn to people who exude a happiness that they, themselves, cannot feel and are almost in contempt of, yet they are drawn to it and ultimately, they end up trying to destroy that happiness in the other person. I’d love to know if anyone else out there has seen or felt this in their relationship with a narcissist…


                  • Narcissists always want what others have. They are full of envy. I used to think it was their envy that, ironically, kept them from being happy but now I think their brains just aren’t wired for happiness, at least not in the same way as a neurotypical’s brain is. Since contemptuous delight (when they feel they have “won”) is the closest thing to happiness for them, I’m wondering if they read our happiness as some kind of victory and so this triggers them to want to destroy that.


                    • Excellent point about the envy.

                      Envy is a strong influence and motivator for narcissists. In the early stages of a new relationship the envy takes the form of admiration. They admire all these things about you and want to be with you because of those things. At some point that admiration begins to shift into envy. Bit by bit what they admired about becomes what they envy in you.

                      The best article I’ve ever read on the narcissistic wound and its most probable causes is this one – – if you scroll down to the Early Life Developmental Defences section, it explains the ‘wiring’ of a narcissist’s brain. They are prone to experiencing an all or nothing view of the world. This is expressed by them in many ways, one of which is swinging from extremes such as hating what or who they once loved, or wanting to destroy what they once created.

                      Happiness is something which eludes them, they just don’t understand it and how it works, and because of that it drives them nuts, especially when someone else has it and they don’t understand how that person has it. They often do all those things which society, media, advertising, tells us should make us happy and find themselves not happy. So when they see someone who is happy they feel as though that person is taunting them with this elusive treasure – they want that treasure!


                  • Very good observation.

                    Narcissists, just like non-narcissists, are drawn to people who are happy.

                    Happiness is an attractive trait.

                    Many pop-psychology articles list happiness as a means to achieve success on all fronts. Popular people are usually people who smile a lot, appear to be happy, exude optimism, and make those around feel good about themselves. Their happiness is infectious and infects others.

                    Being unhappy is listed as the one thing which will make others find you unattractive and avoid you.

                    The main difference between the attraction to happiness which narcissists and non-narcissists have is that non-narcissists won’t usually question why you’re happy if you’re a happy person, they enjoy your happiness and being infected by it. Whereas narcissists want to figure out what makes you happy and how to get that happiness for themselves. They want to be the happy person who everyone else finds attractive. This is partly what makes them ‘destroy’ your happiness – they’re basically dismantling it and you so they can have the formula for themselves.

                    But there is no real secret formula to happiness. Even if advertisers and entrepreneurs everywhere in this world of human try to tell us there is – buy this product, it will make you happy!

                    Real happy people find happiness in the darkest places because that’s just the way they are.

                    Narcissists often base their idea of happiness on fiction – on TV, film and book versions of happy – those fictional version of happy tend to romanticise happiness and give the impression that someone else is what makes you happy – hence narcissists tend to think that you are what is going to make them happy. And you do make them happy for awhile and you become their source of eternal happiness for them. But. When you don’t make them happy anymore because they’re expecting you to get rid of all their unhappy by magical happy means, or when the happy you infected them with in the early stages of the relationship wears off and their usual unhappiness returns (with a vengeance) they start pulling the legs off the happy being – you. You’re not Mr. Darcy, and they thought you were!

                    They destroy you because of the narcissistic wound which destroyed who they were a long time ago and they just keep replaying the wounding over and over again.


                    • Also they try to get you to depend on them for your happiness and then take it away by breaking up.


                    • When a narcissist breaks up with you it’s often due to them not being able to handle the pressure of the situation which they’ve created. Their facade is cracking, the reality they’ve built is crumbling.

                      They love the honeymoon phase of a relationship. They end the relationship when that phase comes to an end and then they move onto to a new relationship so they can go through another honeymoon phase.

                      If they set themselves up as the source of your happiness, they can only keep that up for a short amount of time before you start demanding more from them than they can actually give. You want a deeper relationship, a deeper kind of happiness, you want to know them better, they can’t give that to you because it requires the sort of intimacy and scrutiny which makes them too vulnerable to being found out as being a flawed and imperfect person.

                      When they set themselves up as the source of your happiness it also means that you’re being set up as the source of their happiness which relies on you making them feel good about themselves all the time. The slightest complaint from you, the slightest doubt from you about them, the slightest hint that you’re questioning them, and they see that as leading to you being disappointed with them – they can’t live up to the expectations which they see you as having of them (which are actually ones they have of themselves), so they cut ties before those ties cut into them.

                      One of their biggest fears is that you’ll find out that they’re not who they claimed to be – the moment it looks like you might be about to do that, they get as far away from you as possible as you have now become a threat to their survival.

                      They’re not taking your happiness away, they’re protecting themselves from you taking their happiness away.


                    • Who is this? Is this admin? These are great answers! You should write a book! Or maybe you already did? You have a great understanding of NPD and couldn’t have gotten better training than being raised with NPD parents. Thanks for helping us to figure them out!


                    • Yes, this is ‘admin’. Otherwise known as Ursula of An Upturned Soul.

                      No, I haven’t written a book. Thank you for the suggestion. I doubt if I ever will write a book, to do so I would have to get over the hurdle of profiting from pain… which is rather complex.

                      The best book on narcissists which you will ever read is the one you write while trying to figure out your own story and experience of a narcissist 🙂


                    • Why do they discard in the most hurtful way possible? It kind of feels like they take it out on us that they’re not who they’re trying to get us and them to believe they are.


                    • A rule of thumb with narcissists – whatever they do to you they feel so much worse than you do according to them. When they hurt you it’s mainly because they want you to feel their pain.

                      What they do is their pain doing.

                      What they say is their pain talking.

                      Pain is a motivating force for them.

                      Their pain is always worse than yours according to them – and don’t try to reason with them on this point. Reason is not going to win, neither is logic.

                      They tend to think they’re the ‘victim’ of some pain you inflicted upon them which is why whatever pain they inflict on you seems justified to them. Chances are whatever they did to you is due to whatever they think you did to them.

                      The discard tends to reflect their worst fears, their greatest anger, envy, concern, anxiety… it is all about them , you are all about them.

                      They take all their issues out on others – that’s our issue with them. That’s the issue which keeps us attached to them long after they’ve detached from us. It sucks and will always suck because it will never make sense.


              • The best to you too! Being kind to ourselves should be the order of buisness. Narcassists are not morr powerful, they are all smoke and mirrors. Normal people who can love rule.


  14. At the time I didnt know I was dealing with narcassists and had given very little thought to the disorder. It was only months later that I stumbled upon some material, and realized why the whole experience was so god awful, and why I had gone temporarily crazy and acting in ways that were very uncharacteristic to my personality. I had been duped by several who backed eachother up and one was a neighbor, so I couldnt even be at peace in my own home when it all blew up on me. What was funny was when I ran into the one who hurt me the most, he looked attracted and pleased to see me, as a random blonde woman, until he realized who I was. It was laughable.Then his expression changed and I saw tremendous pain stress and perhaps anger. It took me a moment to recognize him too, but I felt fine. I felt calm and confident. It felt like winning but it didnt really matter that much anymore. I knew Id really made it.

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  15. My soul no longer hopes for life darkness consumes me and I am comfortable I no longer care enough to build or destroy eagerly I await the next realm I’ve nothing left and I am nubm never have I more power or peace what am i


  16. Wow! You nailed that one! If I knew at 23 what I know now, I would have run fast and far from both the narcissists in my life. But I didn’t. Now I am dealing with the fallout, which is akin to PTSD. If yiu are “one in a million” and someone you have only known for a few weeks “can’t live without you,” ask yourself how they managed so far. Right? Could you talk more about the initial “love bomb?’ I think that would be really helpful for those at the beginning of this type of relationship. And how to get past the disappointment that what looks like your deepest dream is really just dysfunctional B.S. and totally unhealthy.


    • Thank you for sharing 🙂

      You’re absolutely right that when someone tells you that they ‘can’t live without you’ it’s worth asking ‘how they’ve managed so far’ to exist without you.

      However someone telling you that you’re ‘one in a million’ and that they ‘can’t live without you’ isn’t necessarily a ‘red flag’ pointing to a narcissist.

      Love tends to inspire a certain madness in even the most grounded in reality of people. That ‘madness’ isn’t necessarily a ‘bad’ thing. Life can be hard, harsh, tough and love softens those kinds of edges.

      When we ‘fall in love’, meet someone who hits all the right buttons for us (and makes oxytocin, the ‘love hormone’, kick in) we often feel as though ‘we can’t live without them’ and ‘they’re one in a million’ because they make our life so much brighter and make us feel so much more alive than we have ever felt. It’s the sort of thing we might say while inspired by love. We don’t mean that we can’t actually live without that person – it’s an expression of our excitement. We feel newly born, newly alive. Life with this person we love seems better and we’d rather not live without them and they are one in a million to us, that doesn’t mean we can’t live and haven’t lived without them, and that we don’t know there are other people in this world. Saying such a thing isn’t always a sign of NPD – it’s sometimes just love talking and being poetic, romantic, OTT because we feel OTT when inspired by love. It can be a very ‘good’ feeling and experience.

      If things had worked out ‘happily ever after’ with the person who said that to you you wouldn’t be questioning it and seeing it as a red flag. It’s mainly because things went wrong, the ‘dream’ became a ‘nightmare’, and the person who said that was a dealer of BS – in hindsight (and hindsight is always a 20/20 thing after things go wrong) reviewing what went on, what was done, what was said, everything seems like a red flag which you should have noticed before you got involved, got in too deep and got hurt. Hindsight is finding fault and danger signs in everything past, it’s wanting to avoid the disappointment which now hurts like hell, and there’s nothing you can do about.

      All relationships are complicated and prone to causing disappointment – often because our expectations are too high and too idealistic. We’ve waited so long and so patiently for our deepest dream to materialise… the last thing we want is for the deepest dream come true to be a lie which explodes in our face and hurts us. That kind of pain is the sort which feels impossible to ever recover and heal from – how can we continue living after this has happened to us.

      Your deepest dream may be something you’ve been working on for most of your life, refining it, building it, working on it until it was perfect and the slightest thing can knock that sort of house of cards over because… humans. Narcissistic humans are the sort who one moment embody everything we’ve been waiting for and the next moment they take our biggest dream and crush it in a way that it can never be put back together again. They knocked over our sand castle which took us so long to build… and now all we have left is the PTSD which makes us never want to dream, hope, build anything ever again in case another narcissist comes along and ruins it.

      So how do you recover from such a blow?

      You stop blaming yourself for what happened and being paranoid about it happening again. It’s not your fault. You’re human… allow yourself to be human. Take some time out to review your ‘deepest dream’ by going through the debris of disappointment and retrieving the parts which are worth keeping and letting go of the parts which perhaps you thought were essential to it but maybe aren’t.

      There is a gift in the curse of a relationship with a narcissist (and if you happen to have had more than one relationship with a narcissist the gift in the curse is multiplied). To get the gift out of the curse of it you need to be honest, real and authentic with yourself – in other words don’t BS yourself. BS-ing ourselves is often why we find the BS of narcissists attractive. Be real with yourself and you won’t find the BS of narcissists interesting. But don’t beat yourself up about having fallen for the BS of narcissists, don’t confuse the cynicism and the skepticism which is often a symptom of disappointment, a defense against being hurt again, with being real with yourself.

      You’re allowed to be a deep dreamer and hope that your deepest dream will materialise – you just need to perhaps realise that if a person is part of that deepest dream they may not be dressed up in shining armor the way that a narcissist does. Sometimes the real heroes don’t look anything like heroes – narcissists tend to try to look like heroes are supposed to look which is why we fall for them and their ‘love bombing’ because that’s what we believe a hero of love is supposed to look like and do. Real heroes of love are often rather awkward at first and shy about expressing their love for us because they’ve been hurt too and are cautious just as we are.

      The best way to get past the disappointment is to learn what it has to teach you about being human and living life – disappointment is a natural and normal part of that and all humans go through it, have a hard time getting past it, build walls around themselves to try to avoid the pain of it, live in fear of experiencing it, are awkward about falling in love because of it.

      Try to avoid disappointment and you’ll make yourself miserable (that’s what narcissists try to do – avoid disappointment and cause it to happen because they put so much energy into avoiding it and the power of negative thinking works just like the power of positive thinking does only it seems to work more efficiently).

      Cut yourself lots of slack, be gentle with yourself, take this opportunity to get to know yourself and your deepest dream better (there’s nothing like picking up the pieces of a shattered deepest dream to make us know it and ourselves, its creator, more intimately as we put it, and ourselves, back together again), and let yourself heal at your own pace (don’t try to rush things, yourself, the healing process).

      Maybe this experience is something you needed even if you wish you hadn’t had it because pain like this makes us go deeper into ourselves and find the parts of us which only come out when we really need them.

      And maybe having a relationship with a narcissist is criteria you needed so that when a non-narcissist comes into your life you’ll recognise them. They’ll be the person who perhaps frustrates you because instead of love bombing you… they make you want to love bomb them (but not in a narcissistic way of love bombing).

      I took your advice, btw – – thank you for the inspiration. Not sure if this is quite what you meant or wanted but it’s what came out.

      Take care of yourself!


    • Your sight is such a place for those healing from the narcissist. I was involved with a female N for 20 years. We were both female. Both educated, she was with a male when we met, of course someone I know now to meet her sick needs, elevate her by his being a worthless attorney in town. Narcissist relationships start with an unbelievable amount of lust, chaos, tension….my gut told me, ” leave this now” was to unreal. Into the first 3 months I realized she probably had a drinking problem. She had children, I did not. At the time I pressed her not to discuss our relationship with others, for I was very private, and it was not as accepted as today. My life went into a whirlwind for the next 20 years. She did a lot of gaslighting, and it hurt. I went from a strong, avid athlete, to a caretaker, meeting her every need. I moved out many times, only to be sucked in again. Now that I look back, I was healthiest every time I left her. I did not diagnose her until the final end. I have studied Narcissism adnauseum. She was 100% Narc. Your sight is the most informative for me. It has been invaluable. THANK YOU! It is going on three years now of healing. I had gained, so ashamed of myself, a lot of weight in the relationship, stopped all my athletic pursuits. I felt shame so much of the time. I found in the end she was triangulating me, lying to family, friends, etc. She isolated me from my friends for 20 years. I became so isolated from everyone. It was hell. I knew, just knew, there was something wrong. Narcs are so good at presenting the great facade….I thought it was me. This is what she wanted me to believe. I lost thousands of dollars with her, thousands….the final straw in the end, ( and though it hurt and stung like hell, I am glad it finally happened) she betrayed me with one of the ugly men in the beginning,(ofcourse the major desire of those men knowing she was with a woman all those years) he called me a “waste” for being gay back then. She made sure she told me that……gaslighting. I could not believe she was with this man, behind my back, who she new had a huge impact on my sanity, self esteem by those few words, “you are a waste”( for being with me, being gay)…I know now she was having affairs with both the attorney she was with when we first met, and the man who called me a waste. I am 63 now, she is 70 and still going strong with these men, and who knows what else. She was vicious when I pulled her mask off, she knows I know. She taught me the meaning of compartmentalization, she had so many lies going on when I look back………..just sick stuff. I was huge NARC supply, and my personality was everything she is not; warm, loving, very gregarious.. I lost so many good years ,20, and although continue to heal, do not ever see a relationship again in my life. I am totally wiped out, and would be fearful my loving, giving nature would succumb to another N….I am closed off with only profession, my beloved doggies, and a few close friends. I also am athletic again. Lost all the weight. The N relationship changed the course of my life forever. I have no feelings for her other than pure disgust….it took a long time to get there, and I don’t bath in anger toward her, she is not worth the energy. The mask came off and she discarded me like crap. The wound was so significant in the beginning after finding about the betrayal. I was directing a social service program, and how I managed I do not know. Looking back it is all a fog. I don’t tell people about what she did, it is not worth it, nor would they understand. She lied to so many people behind my back. She pops in and out via emails, text….but I am cold, NO CONTACT..I once thought she was attractive, I see her as pure evil now. The thought of her scares me.
      I want to thank you again for your phenomenal healing sight for those of us wounded, those of us on the brink of self destruction…you validate what I lived, I have read your sight over and over the past 3 years. Today I am reading because I noticed in our old joint bank account, a charge I did not make. I texted her did she have my bank card for someone made a purchase in her area the day before….she texted back, “sorry, I did not realize it was yours I got a new card and it was to your account, I will mail the card to you” I texted back “destroy it” period. Do you think she transferred the funds from that transaction back into my account. Hell no. This is after 3 years of it ending. Once a NARC always a NARC…..& I will not give her the gift of me in any way, even texting “put the money back into my account”..that would interupt NO CONTACT. Rather I closed that account completely yesterday. To ignore her feels great!
      Thank you again for your ability to express who a Narc really is, and there are many out there. For anyone reading this, if you find someone,in the beginning, you have huge electric attraction, unbelievable attraction, RUN, it is only lust, and luring by probably a NARC…..your life will enter a tailspin, you will or could be destroyed.
      God Bless, someone who has pretty much healed from the sick NARC…


      • Thank you for sharing 🙂

        It is indeed exhausting being with a narcissist, the exhaustion is a part of the PTSD which comes with experiencing narcissistic abuse. Even once you’re out of the relationship, go No Contact, the flashbacks and memories of it can suck all the energy out of you, the fear of them turning up, contacting you again, of some other shoe dropping means you can never relax. Learning to relax, trust life, trust yourself, trust others again is a slow process requiring baby steps.

        The hardest part of healing is how a relationship with a narcissist impacts your relationship with yourself. They pass their wound onto you with everything they do and how they affect you, and often leave us as confused about who we are as they are, but unlike them we haven’t developed the coping mechanisms of creating personas, projecting and transferring our stuff onto others and making others responsible for our problems so that we’re blame free. We have self-reflection and as beneficial as it can be it can also be how we hurt ourselves using hindsight.

        The more you look back and see how the narcissist played you, manipulated and messed with you, betrayed you and managed to get you to betray yourself for them, the angrier you get at yourself for not having seen who they were sooner, for having made excuses for them, for having put up with their games, and most of all for having loved them – we can get stuck never forgiving ourselves for having loved someone who we now know wasn’t worthy of our love and that impacts our view of ourselves and often undermines our recovery and healing.

        Getting over the fact that you loved a narcissist can be very difficult as you can see now what you couldn’t see then and it can make you hard on yourself in subtle ways that chip away, and you may ‘punish’ yourself by not trusting yourself to ever be able to make decisions about other relationships.

        I found the writings of Pema Chodron really helpful in dealing with self-blaming and shaming, and also the book – When Women Were Birds by Terry Tempest Williams – which I read recently when my narc mother returned to my life causing chaos and everything past to resurface.

        “For far too long we have been seduced into walking a path that did not lead us to ourselves. For far too long we have said yes when we wanted to say no. And for far too long we have said no when we desperately wanted to say yes. . . .

        When we don’t listen to our intuition, we abandon our souls. And we abandon our souls because we are afraid if we don’t, others will abandon us.” ― Terry Tempest Williams

        One of the blessings/curses which comes with a relationship with a narcissist is that it forces us to get to know ourselves better, it stirs up our own issues and makes us face them. It can take a long time for us to feel strong and brave enough to look in that kind of mirror, and keep looking until we make friends with the parts of us which we may have viewed as enemies. A narcissist uses our own self against us – the worst triangulation which they do is the one between us and the other parts of us, especially our secrets, shadows and our own wounds. Where we’re vulnerable to narcissists is where we’re already vulnerable and they see that and use it to keep us caught in their web. They can see our vulnerabilities because they have similar ones, everything they do to us is a reflection of them and what is going on inside of them. They tend to hurt you where they hurt – thus passing on their wound.

        The man who said that you were a waste because you were gay – did he ever say that to you directly or did you only get her word for it that he said it. I ask because it sounds like a narcissist’s wound talking. Narcissists can twist what people say, making a shiv out of a toothbrush. They also ‘things people said’ which people did not say at all or said in an entirely different manner and context. We tend to believe the narcissist’s version of events and conversations because people can be a-holes, society can be harsh, and if we think the narcissist loves us then why would they invent something with which to hurt us, why would they lie when they don’t need to lie, but then again why would they pass on something nasty when they could protect us from it.

        One of the things which drives a narcissist to behave the way that they do is intense pain surrounding identity/existence. Often the nastiest things they say to you are things which they believe about themselves, things which most likely someone else (like a parent) inflicted upon them. She most likely sees herself as a waste perhaps because she’s gay but probably because someone made her feel like a waste for being alive. They often hurt us with what hurts them in search of a cure for themselves and their wound – but usually they only end up passing the wound on – they basically inject us with poison, the same poison running through their system, and hope that we’ll be immune to it – if we are they want our immunity.

        Keep doing what you are doing, nurturing yourself, giving to yourself the benefits of who you are – your loving, giving, caring nature can love, give and care for you naturally. As you heal yourself, your relationship with yourself will become healthy in a way which will make it hard for you to succumb to another N. What you’ve been through and the painful awareness it has given you has positives to it too.

        Take good care of yourself, and focus on what the next 20+ years will bring for you – what do you want, need, feel like having in your life 🙂


        • Thank you for your kind email. I certainly did not expect a reply, it was deeply appreciated. You just have your finger on the pulse. I have been a Mental Health professional for 39 years. Helping many….was I blind, YES. I met/counseled borderlines, etc, and narcissist are not as researched or counseled so much, it seems they tie the diagnosis in with Borderline/Narc…..I was so damn blind. Then after my abusive collapse 3 years ago, I found you, your blog. Truly, I believe it saved me in many ways. I went to Amazon to see if you published a book. I would lock myself in my office, put a “do not disturb sign” and read as though getting affirmations on a daily basis. My heart was devastated in a way I did not know was possible, and I could still live. I went to the Bible and found Narcissism alive and thriving there as well. Thus, I still go back to my “favorites” when troubled, angst, and read your blogs. It calms me. Your entire email was very refreshing in your demonstrated ability to bring it all together, thus your gift at helping those affected by N heal. You can read in all your writings your experience and knowledge of this disorder. I could not believe the paragraph, you wrote, below. I sat there stunned. I always wondered why in the beginning when all her male friends, etc, were having a love fest based on our gay relationship, it pained me deeply. My privacy was so invaded/violated. I know now it was her “getting off” on these men knowing of us together. I think a part of her hated men too….you would know better than. She was telling so many people. I was horrified. & that was the begining of the 20 year whirlwind of hell. What you wrote below, I just never thought of that, but now that I preview the beginning to the end, her betraying me with this man, etc; I bet you are correct. I bet it was not said in that context, something to the affect, because he is disgusting to…..Over those 20 years I asked her, do you hear from him. Up to a couple weeks before the betrayal with him, 3 years ago, she always said “NO, never, I don’t want to talk about it”…she would become very angry. Then bam, she slipped up, and my worst fear was alive,I discovered she was sleeping with this man. I let out a almost primal scream of pain. I think perhaps her telling me he said I was a waste, was the beginning of her “gas lighting”, weakening my otherwise full of life spirit. You talk about envy, I do believe she always “envied” my ability to talk to all walks of life, hold director positions with ease, friendly in the community. I look back and see jealousy, thus I became crippled and isolated with all the abuse. I am no big deal, but I was/am very competent. I was not insecure until her abuse. She would get degrees, but never move up, or inward into peoples lives. She held professional positions that were safe from exposing herself to much. I truly was in shock when I read your email below. After the waste comment, she would slowly inject hurtful things her family said about me, friends, etc. I would often say “why”, I am a good person. I look back in my healing, why would any kind, loving person share hurtful things with anyone, yet alone a partner. I would never say something to hurt someone, never. Early on, in moments of alcohol, she would elude to possible sexual abuse as a child, and many times expressed how her older sister would abuse her as a child. She often said her mom, who was deceased, threatened her as a young adult to never be with a woman. I have no clue if any of this is true, for I do not believe a thing she said in the 20 years of our time together This was odd….the lies are so prevalent, she may have been with women before. She certainly left a lot of men, had 3 children from different men. I have learned narcissist are so hard to detect in the beginning, because in her instance, they come on so kind, so intelligent, so fun, WARM, interested in you, (uh oh) and sadly, so intoxicating intimately. ……that is the net I now know they are circling around the victim. I will forever be embarrassed. There is no empathy in a NARC, that is so abnormal I now know. The entanglement of lies is overwhelming…the weave is extraordinary. I knew one shrink for years, and went to him for some anti depressants, anxiety med’s after the betrayal the final end of this obscene story in my life, before I read your blogs and started understanding the stronghold Narcs can have.. He knew her, he knew she had been abusing me. I never cry, and I sobbed, so broken, told him the story, the betrayal, he calmly, methodically said, ” Debbie she is a sociopath, she abused you as long as I have known you, I could not help you until you knew”…I said “but she looks so normal, has a good job, comes across so likable”

          As it all ends, she does not know what to do regarding me, just run, again, the mask is off, I think the NARC runs then, right? I told her in this past 3 years of healing she was a narcissist, she did not say a word. ( I thought she would go wild with spewing anger)She presents so soft, feminine, but I have seen her anger, it is vicious, the foul words that come out of her mouth, are mind boggling. The no contact I would assume is something she never expected, but I also know she could care less. . I never thought I would feel so released, and she repulses me, our time together repulses me, and frightens me to never allow such an act to occur in my life again. She moved from “our home” 2 years ago. I related to her, in honor, part of the income from the sell should be shared. I put so much money into that home, remodels, mortgage, etc. She went off in a vitriolic tirade…………….I just said forget it, not worth it. So to the revenge arena with a NARC, I believe the best revenge is disappear, for me, to keep healing, create new memories in my life. Keep up with my mountain bike riding, all the things I lost in those 20 years.

          Lastly, I currently reside in a beautiful place in California, have been here all my life. It is time to move on now, make new memories. This is taking huge courage, for I am still wounded, afraid. I am taking my doggies and starting over with a new director position in my profession on the Coast of California, Northern. New home, new friends, the beach, the seagulls, the beautiful sea, the small town…..again, thanks to you, your God given gift to blog as you have. I will take all these lessons with me. There will be no forwarding address to my new home so this woman cannot ever find me. She is blocked from my phone, my email address, etc. I will continue to read your blog when I am hurting, or need affirmations. PTSD is real after NARC abuse. I actually pondered suicide the pain of abuse was so humilating, so deeply scarring and painful……………but my faith helped me, and again, an angel took me to your blogs.

          If you have published, would you please let me know. I would love to have all your work in books. God Bless, Debbie

          “The man who said that you were a waste because you were gay – did he ever say that to you directly or did you only get her word for it that he said it. I ask because it sounds like a narcissist’s wound talking. Narcissists can twist what people say, making a shiv out of a toothbrush. They also ‘things people said’ which people did not say at all or said in an entirely different manner and context. We tend to believe the narcissist’s version of events and conversations because people can be a-holes, society can be harsh, and if we think the narcissist loves us then why would they invent something with which to hurt us, why would they lie when they don’t need to lie, but then again why would they pass on something nasty when they could pro tect us from it.”


          • Thank you very much 🙂

            I haven’t written a book and probably won’t, the blogging format suits me better and also allows for others to share their story here – many of those who visit this blog get more form the stories which others share on here than they do from my posts 🙂

            I do understand the suicidal thoughts which come with the pain that a narcissist inspires and causes for us. One of the things which kept me from ending my life was the knowledge that the narcissists in my life would use my death to spin their story into more of a myth. I could visualise my mother turning my suicide into the ultimate martyrhood, she would play the mother who has lost her child to the hilt, blaming my father for what I did and using it to make his life even more of living hell than she’d already made it – while my father would use it to prove everything he had always accused her of being and doing. Their endless war would continue as it always had and they’d hardly notice me as usual except for how I could be spun into their web, their facade, their dramas. I would have played into their hands so perfectly if I’d killed myself (Going Mad to Stay Sane by Andy White confirmed that for me). I also didn’t want to upset whoever found my dead body – which wouldn’t be either my father or my mother. So someone else who had nothing to do with the pain would get to carry that kind of pain and yet again the narcissists would ‘win’ and benefit from the pain of others.

            Suicidal tendencies do have a way of putting our life in perspective for us – and making us face what we may be avoiding seeing to an extreme. That moment when I was prepared to end my life was also the moment when I stopped blocking what I didn’t want to see.

            So much of what we feel in a relationship with a narcissist is theirs and not ours. The humiliation – that’s theirs but we take it on as though it was our own, as we do with so much of their wound. We worry about hurting them so we end up letting them hurt us and we help them do it. We are anxious about their sensitivity, their pain, their issues, so we bottle our own, repress our feelings and emotions, suppress our needs and wants, and a whole load of other things for them… we make them the centre of our world thus our world becomes one of pain, because pain is their home – who a narcissist is and what they do is all about pain, borne of pain, avoiding it, escaping it, passing it on, etc.

            A large part of their hold on us comes from us buying into their pain, helping them to avoid it, pass the burden of it onto us and taking it on as our own. When we face it and deal with it with eyes wide open – that’s when their hold over us begins to lose its grip. We return to them what is theirs and return to ourselves what is ours.

            One of the most powerful things we can do for ourselves to heal is to accept everything which comes with being human. Narcissists make us afraid of being human because they’re afraid of it.

            They make us feel embarrassed, ashamed, angry at ourselves, for normal and natural things which humans do, think, feel, are. They encourage us to hate who we are – as they hate who they are.

            We’re doing what one human does for another because we know what it is to be human, and that’s not something we should feel embarrassed or humiliated about but we end up feeling that way because they feel that way about being human. And because what we do to ourselves stings far more than what they do to do us, and we do a lot to ourselves because of them, because they convince us that everything about us hurts them and we must stop being ourselves to stop hurting them. But they always find a reason to be hurt, always find a way to use us to hurt themselves and blame us for what they do to themselves using us.

            Bottom line is – there is absolutely nothing wrong with you. But a relationship with a narcissist causes everything about you to become something which is wrong with you, and the things they make you regret the most about yourself are often the best parts of you, the ones they once admired, wanted to possess for themselves, found they couldn’t have them and the admiration turned to envy which festered and became toxic.

            Don’t be angry at yourself for loving her and what you did out of love for her – your love was doing and being what love does and is. It’s just that love terrifies narcissists and they turn our love for them into something we regret so deeply that we never want to experience love again. That’s their problem not ours, but it becomes our problem over time. But we don’t need to solve that kind of problem the way that a narcissist does and that’s a blessing which comes with being human and accepting that status as a human who makes mistakes, learns from experience and… pain is a part of the human experience, is a very powerful teacher who can make us as it breaks us.

            Empathy and compassion require that we know the deepest heartbreaks of being human.

            Your new life and home sounds wonderful, a new adventure for the soul to live, grow and prosper 🙂


  17. Hello, I am new to Narcissists. Just started to date one since this March. I rejected him for many times at the beginning because I felt we are not compatible together even though I never met him at that time. But he pursued me so persistent for 7months until we met. After second date, he stared to act very different, like someone who I never knew before but I guess he might just be a player. But I’m young and I don’t mind just having some fun, which turned out to be a bad idea. I have never met those people before. He is hot n cold, he kept distance and play a lot of mind games, he pushed me away once coz I told him you are different now from earlier. Nothing makes any sense from him. But the negative energy was pulling all over me, he brought up my self doubt and blame me for try to changing him instead of taking who he is. I stopped seeing him after two dates, but we still texted each other, the way he think are kind of weird. I don’t know and he kept ask me to share my deepest secrets with him, which I didn’t because I don’t feel like to be pushed to answered those private questions. Last time when we see each other, I slept with him for fun, he told me nobody in this world is happy, everyone is miserable. And he kept blaming me for accusing him to be negative, which I never said that before, but I felt that. Anyway, the morning after, he suddenly speak nasty to me because I tried wake him up earlier, and then he refused to send me home instead of calling me a cab. I told him it would made me feel hurt if you do that, and he was laughing the whole time when I felt so bad. I felt depressed and very unhappy after I got home. And I started to do some research about this kind of abnormal behavior, btw, he lied a lot and he had tons of Asian girls, He has intention to collect Asian girls because they are very submissive and obey their men. However, I am pretty much not like that but with an innocent face though. After I put all those puzzle pieces together, I know he is convert narcissist, and I was very angry about it and I posted in my own blogger about how irresponsible those people are without mention his real name or anything, but he found out the same day when I posted, so bizarre! He asked me whether I am talking about him, I didn’t answer and he texted me later whether I was mad at him, I didn’t answer. And he responses me with “oook! ” I don’t even know what that means! I am so tired of those faking shit, I’m young, smart and making tons of money by myself, I don’t need a man to make me happy. I plan to not response him for a bit longer because I knew he might be a little angry and out of control, because normally if I don’t answered him right away, he would sent me ten messages and show me upset faces. And he always say something and mean another things, he wanted me to guess all the time, I hate it so much. Can you just fucking say what you want? He also likes to compliment me in his way,” look at those fake green eyes” when I use different color eye contact lenses. How funny it is!

    I feel very sad today that I can’t comfort him and hold him because I want to keep a distance with him for my own sake. He is a sad baby and it hurts me too for not show my empathy to him, but I cant forget the way he treated me like a shit after sex and come back after few days silence because his dick is missing me. What should I do? Please help! Thanks!


    • Thank you for sharing 🙂

      Sometimes when people comment on my blog about a relationship they have with a narcissist, I’m not always sure that the person they think is a narcissist is actually a narcissist. All I have to go by is their words, description and story, what they share and their decision that the other person is a narcissist. In your case you have accurately described the behaviour of a narcissist. Everything in your story points to a narcissist, including your concern about being empathic towards him.

      You may be young and may not have had experience of narcissists before, but you’re smart – very smart.

      What should you do? – exactly what you’ve been doing minus getting more involved with him than you already are. Your self-protection is working well and you need to keep protecting yourself by distancing yourself from him. If he treats you like shit this early on in the relationship, things aren’t going to get better. If you accept how he treats you now, he’ll see that as you accepting this kind of treatment and he’ll excuse his behaviour by blaming you for it.

      He may be a ‘sad baby’ but sad babies can be very mean to those who love them and want to make them happy babies with their love. And besides his sad baby is what keeps you caring for him so he’s never going to stop being a sad baby, he’ll just become a sad and angry baby who cries all the time and stresses you out until you’re a shell of your beautiful, intelligent, independent self.

      If his ideal woman is a mythical being known as ‘the compliant Asian’ (and he thinks it’s perfectly okay to categorise and objectify women, people, like that) then he needs to go out and find that unicorn, and not try and turn you into who you are definitely never going to be for him or for anyone. Why did he pick you when you’re not at all his ‘type’, is it perhaps because his ‘type’ is actually someone who is independent whom he wants to force into being dependent on him?

      If you’re tired now… imagine how exhausted you’ll be after a year, two years, seven years of this mind game mess.

      I realise that there’s something really attractive about this man for you, you have feelings for him, you’re sexually attracted to him (even if he’s an ass the morning after), you care for him, and he seems great from a distance (not so much up close and personal). Something is keeping you attached to him, going back to him even though your logic tells you that he’s bad for you, his compliments are criticisms, he lies, he laughs when you’re hurt, he doesn’t seem to care about you – he cares about you caring about him.

      He stalks you, wants to know all your secrets, wants to tell you what’s wrong with you, blame you for why something is wrong with him…

      If a friend of yours told you the relationship story which you’ve just shared with me… what would you think, feel, and say to your friend when they asked you what they should do?

      Reread your comment and listen to your own story – you’ve got loads of advice for yourself in your own words – it sounds like you’re shouting at yourself to get out and get away from this man before he turns you into someone you’re not, before he hurts you even more than how he has already hurt you.

      What would you tell yourself to do? How would you help yourself? Do that!


      • Thank you so much for your comments. I love all of your analysis about Narcissists. U r the true survivor n so much respect! I knew I was right about him from the beginning, but I fell for him because he kept telling me how sad and depressed he is and I don’t like to see sad people, i always like to cheer them up or support them more. But I do feel bad about I stop responding his texts, he never apologize for last time and always come back like nothing happened. In fact, this is the third time he use the same tricks on me, hurt me and try to win me back, what kind people do that? I don’t know whether I should respond him coz I don’t want him to feel bad about himself, silly me! This is my nature n I can’t help it. And I don’t think it’s his fault for he become who he is, and he is a sick minded person and how can I just help him with mental support? Thank you!


      • Quick updated! I tried not do anything after no contract. But he messaged me twice today again for trying to hurt himself. It feels bad not to response after that, I guess he pretty much figure it out before he texted me. And I told him that I don’t really hate him even after he hurts me, but he was kind of trying to put everything on me, said I didn’t talk with him about those problems. But I did every time. He never listens anyway. That’s ok, it always like that because he hates confrontation or any kind. He said he would leave me alone and sounds like to ask me not get too close to him, or maybe it’s another test, I’m not sure. Need expert idea, and I ask him if you want me to leave you alone, I can do it too. He said no. Do I sound like crazy here? Coz I want to set a boundary between us so we won’t have to hate each other again. Last question, I don’t really know what his motives will be since he stalked me on my blogger and he knew what I was talking about, Because i was really hurt and angry so I might say something very extreme. But I did never mean it. I am afraid he might do anything to revenge me because today he is extremely calm like all those my feelings are come from nowhere. Is that safe if I try to ask them to stop playing their game with me? I did twice today, and he said I made him very confused. Thanks a lot!


        • Pause. Take a deep breath. Come back to yourself.

          Everyone gets upset particularly when something upsetting is happening.

          Everyone says things they don’t mean in the heat of the moment – this is also known as being human and other humans will understand this because they do it too. If it was really nasty and you’re genuinely sorry, apologise.

          It’s okay to apologise to a narcissist too. Narcissists are human too and appreciate the same things which non-narcissists do. In fact apologising to a narcissist can go a long way to calming a narcissist down.

          Many narcissists don’t mean to be mean, sometimes they’re mean when they’re trying to be nice – it’s agonising to watch them being nice, and being on the receiving end of their niceness can feel like they’re stabbing you with a smile on their face. They are really awkward and don’t understand being human, at least not other humans being human.

          It sounds like this man is desperate for your attention, and like a child trying to get the attention of parents who are ignoring him, he’s tried being good, but good doesn’t get him attention like being bad does, when he’s bad people notice him. In his attempts to get your attention he’s tried all sorts of tactics but the only one which succeeded was threatening to hurt himself. He’s probably going to do it again because by breaking your no contact you’ve shown him how to get your attention, where your boundary has a weakness, and that’s how narcissists learn and figure out how to get us to give them our attention – they push our buttons until one makes us react to them.

          While you could try to tell a narcissist to stop playing games with you… your narcissist doesn’t listen to you. You’ve confirmed this. He’s confirmed this. So he won’t listen, and even if he does listen he’ll hear what he hears which will probably confuse him as he doesn’t think he’s ‘playing games with you’. He might even think you’re the one playing games with him and you telling not to play games with you is a game you’re playing with him.

          When dealing with a narcissist – keep things simple. A narcissist has a complicated mind, and even more complicated emotions, they can turn the most basic human interaction into a drama with several acts.

          If you want to end things in a friendly way – this can be tricky with a narcissist – let him save face, let his ego come out of the relationship feeling safe. If you can, make him think it was his idea to break up. That’s he’s too good for you.

          When things get too much for you – take a break to allow yourself time to think and relax.

          Take care of yourself!

          Liked by 1 person

          • Thank you so much! Your insight is always very helpful. I did make him feel better during our last conversation until I mentioned he hurt me.. I don’t really want to text him again to make it more messy! I don’t think he is serious about me except we had this crazy sexual chemistry together. and I knew he already started to look for other supplies by changing his online profile pictures even before our fight, and I guess he was planning to replace me with another supply so that I decided to get out first. I guess he didn’t expect me to leave before his supply is ready, pretty shocking! Maybe that’s why he was panic.

            Did they like people who are more easily under control or the opposite? How do they react differently from when he leave you to when you leave them? By the way, he is convert and passive aggressive type. He said last time, “it’s ok you can hate him”! Like I really need his permission to hate him or like him.. And I said “I don’t want to…” did it mean it’s totally over? Hope so! Is there any question that I could ask to check whether the next person that I will meet is not a real crazy? I don’t want to give up on the real deal, but it’s pretty scary out there now…

            I really appreciate your time and reply!


            • Every narcissist is different even if they have many similarities – narcissists are people, human beings, even when they sometimes seem like they’re not human at all.

              Therefore who they’re attracted to, what they look for in others, can be as varied as it can be similar to what every human being looks for and is attracted to. And it’s worth keeping in mind that people who aren’t narcissists may seem a bit crazy or narcissistic, especially when we first meet them before we get to know them better – everyone is nervous and anxious in the early stages of dating, wants to make a good impression and impress the other person, wants to talk about themselves, may be too intense, can be awkward. Thus finding one question which will identify a narcissist or a crazy person for you isn’t going to be easy.

              You can check out some of those lists which are plentiful online that claim to help identify narcissists, some of the advice is good, but it is generalised and you may find those traits and behaviours in non-narcissists and others may find them in you:



              This is a more in depth one and you may recognise some of your experience with your narcissist in this article – – your experience with your narcissist is actually a good guideline for you to use in your future dating experiences.

              You might find it more productive to use the time to get to know yourself a bit better, find out what attracted you to your narcissist, what made a ‘crazy person’ attractive to you. Because for a relationship to happen between you and someone else, it requires your participation too. Go over what made this man attractive to you and ask yourself why those things were attractive for you.

              You’re young, beautiful, intelligent, independent, successful – this will be attractive to pretty much everyone. So finding out why you single out certain people, like this man, to give your attention to and to get into a relationship with is worth doing. Chances are you probably ignored other guys who were trying to date you or get your attention – why this guy and not the others?


  18. My N husband just blocked me because of the N injury I caused him. I went all NC on him, changed my number and all. Will he still hoover even if he has a current supply and he is the first one to cut off communication?


    • Thank you for sharing 🙂

      If you’re still married to your husband, even if living apart, separated and going through divorce proceedings, then the possibility of him hoovering is definitely there as you’re still tied together even if both of you want to break those ties and both of you have gone NC from each other.

      If you are going through divorce proceedings he may re-establish contact with you if he doesn’t like something in the settlement and wants to bypass lawyers/legalities (a common occurrence with most narcissists), and he may cut off communication again if you don’t give him or do what he wants.

      If you’re already divorced and he has moved on to a new love interest, and everything is going well for him, his new love is giving him the attention and ego boosts which he needs, is supporting his persona and reality, then he’ll probably maintain his silence towards you as he doesn’t need you. He may even have blocked you to prove to his new love that he is over you (he will most likely use you as a means of manipulating his new love, comparing the two of you to make his new love work harder to give him supply).

      However if his new love goes wrong, and if he is the type of narcissist who is nostalgic (turns the past into a fantasyland, prefers the past, the past and people from their past are always better than the present), then he may get in touch with you when he’s been disappointed by others.

      If during your relationship you became his parent-by-proxy (certain narcissists turn their spouses into their parents and that becomes your default role for them), then he’ll return to you every time something goes wrong for him, like a child returning home to mummy and/or daddy when the big bad world has upset him.

      Certain narcissists can ignore you for years, then suddenly reappear in your life as though no time has passed, and expect to pick up where you left off in the relationship – as long as you promise to forget why your relationship ended (but they never will if they think it’s all your fault – which they usually do) and have conveniently forgiven them, think it’s great they’re back in your life.

      It very much depends on your individual narcissist, on the patterns they replay over and over, and on the role they’ve given you in the drama of their life. If he breaks off communication with you when you’re not being who he wants you to be, then returns after a period of silence to see if you’ll ‘behave’ this time and be who he wants you to be for him, then he’ll most likely keep repeating this pattern with you unless or until he finds someone to replace you (but replacing you may not be easy if you became an important character in his drama).

      You may be able to break his pattern with you, but this can require a great deal of consist effort on your part to set distinct boundaries.

      This is an interesting article about the yo-yo-ing of a narcissist in a relationship –

      Take good care of yourself, Best wishes!


    • liza on March 30, 2017 at 4:03 am said:
      My N husband just blocked me because of the N injury I caused him. I went all NC on him, changed my number and all. Will he still hoover even if he has a current supply and he is the first one to cut off communication?

      UPDATE: (April 4, 2017)
      Yep. My N husband contacted my mother days ago, asking her how I was. Is this still hoovering? He sent food to my address yesterday even though I know that he is still seeing his current supply. When my mom confronted him about it he denied it of course. He can’t have the both of us. He would stop replying to my mom if the topic of his affair is touched. What’s up with him?


      • Ask your mom if she will practice NC on him as well. It’s imperative to have all family members go NC in a narcissistic situation. That’s the only way to keep everyone free of this evil..


      • Going by what you’ve shared it does sound as though he’s hoovering. Since I don’t know him or his side of the story, there is no way for me to know ‘what’s up with him’. If he is a typical narcissist then he’s most likely keeping his options open and/or creating a narrative for his persona where he’s the ‘good guy’ who is doing his best to reach out to you.

        You can end up driving yourself crazy trying to figure out what your particular narcissist is up to. While it’s a good idea to be aware of what he’s doing if you’re in the process of a divorce as this may affect the process itself, it’s best not to obsess over his behaviour as this means you’re focused on him and neglect yourself. To heal from a relationship with a narcissist you need to turn your attention towards yourself and what’s up with you.

        This is an article worth reading, it’s a no-nonsense look at a typical narcissist’s approach to relationships –

        Take care of yourself, and focus on what you need at this time and can give to yourself.

        Best wishes!


  19. My N ex broke up with me very suddenly after committing to a serious future. The break up was designed as a giant mind game to destroy me. In the aftermath I put the pieces together and realized I was dealing with a covert N. I unmasked him with the facts over email, along with some resources – e.g. sons of N mothers. He vanished immediately and completely. My question: when N’s are unmasked will they return to Hoover, or stay away for good?


    • Thank you for sharing 🙂

      It can be difficult to predict the behaviour of an individual narcissist as each narcissist is different even though certain behaviours are similar. There are variables which affect narcissistic patterns.

      The best way to know what he’ll do next is often by looking at what he’s done before – in your relationship and in previous relationships.

      If he’s been confronted before by you or a previous love interest, he’ll most likely do what he always does – narcissists tend to play, rewind, and repeat.

      If he’s ever done a vanishing act on you before, he’ll most likely repeat what he did then.

      If he’s never done this with you before… he’s probably done it with other people (narcs do this with anyone who says or does something which doesn’t fit into their version of reality and which upsets their narrative). He’s probably told you about those instances where he did it with others, and he’s most likely also told you what he did next – however the stories will have been biased in his favour, with him as hero and them as villain, so you might not recognise them as being similar to what happened between the two of you.

      If he instigated the circumstances which lead to the break up, and indirectly provoked a confrontation with the intention of making you ‘unmask’ him so that he could then become upset and disappear on you, then he may have wanted you to seal the deal on the ending of your relationship and he won’t be back to ‘hoover’… unless he changes his mind. Narcissists can change their mind, especially while they’re in silent treatment mode – when you’re not around to ruin their fantasy version of you, they can get very nostalgic which makes them return to win you back (hoover). It also depends on what other people say about your break up – if he doesn’t come out of it as the hero, he may return to repair his public persona or because everyone keeps telling him what a fool he was to let you get away (narcissists are influenced by public opinion).

      Be prepared for him to return – and get your mind sorted to deal with it (even if he doesn’t come back to ‘hoover’ this is an exercise worth doing, it’s brain training for dealing with narcissists), decide what you want (like whether you want him back and to re-enter a relationship with him which will be more of the same – if he’s a real narcissist he will never change), and what’s best for you – but also be prepared for him to stay ‘disappeared’ and don’t take it personally if he does, everything and everyone is about the narcissist not you.

      This is an article worth checking out –

      If you were together for an extended amount of time, and he is a real narcissist rather than just a very narcissistic person, then you might find this worth reading –

      Your focus should be on yourself and on taking care of yourself!


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