The Zen of Narcissists: Lesson #5 – The Male Narcissist… The Saviour of the World has Arrived!

Narcissist rottenecards

You are the ideal man.

That’s all you need to know and I’m not going to write anymore about you.

Of course I’m kidding! There is so much to tell you about yourself that I may have to devote an entire blog to it for the next several hundred years. Since you’re immortal that sort of timing issue won’t affect you at all.

What’s wrong?

Sorry, you’re offended. You don’t do humour, your idea of a good laugh is when you humiliate someone else publicly like Donald Trump on The Apprentice. And your paranoia that others may be doing the same thing to you that you do to them… sorry… your certainty that others are as manipulative and double-crossing as you are, just not as clever, means that you are sure that anything I say about you could be the bait leading you into a trap.


Your ego is dented. Giving me the silent treatment are you? Waiting for your silence to work its torture on me until I’m so uncomfortable, suffocating in the heavy atmosphere filled with your poisonous vapors, squeezed and sucked by the invisible tentacles of your psyche, and ridden with guilt that I upset you but you won’t tell me why or how or discuss anything at all with me that I’ll crumble and apologise profusely for anything and everything just to break the stone cold silence and fill the dark damp depressing void to created between us. Then you can turn on your lecture mode and talk down to me, blaming me for every hurt you’ve ever had since before you were born because I’ve given you carte blanche to treat me badly… I mean treat me as you feel I deserve to be treated for being an ordinary mortal human who dared speak my mind to a god.

Let me bend over backwards and kiss your feet. I know you need to hear more about yourself. To have your ears filled with the Narcissistic Supply which you crave and which is the reason you behave as you do. The more you treat other people as though they owe you, the more they give you, right, because someone has to pay this unpayable debt which the world owes you. Just be careful, your weak spot is showing, you need others more than they need you. Learn to cover your tracks!

Elizabeth Bear quote

Men and women swoon when you enter the room. You stand out from the crowd like a giant in a kingdom of ants. Not sure why a giant is in a kingdom of ants instead of with other giants… Ah! Because the only way the giant can be impressive is by being with those who are not of its kind. Amongst the giants, you’re the ant. You’re very clever!

You’re Adonis, Zeus and all the other gods. In fact you’re better than the gods because they never managed to create the perfect man, but you did and are!

You’re perfect and a genius. A perfect genius. But you’re often misunderstood. That’s what happens when you’re as advanced as you are. Ordinary humans just don’t understand you because their mortal selves just can’t grasp the magnificence that your immortal self contains and exudes. It’s okay, you can talk down to them, you’re generous like that.

Walking the path of the perfect genius is a challenging one. You’re so far ahead of everyone else that you are forced to wait sometimes very impatiently for them to catch up. And sometimes you have to put up with them thinking you’re ordinary and treating you that way. Fools! Don’t they know who you are!

Your genius once recognised will save the world. The world is populated by idiots who are doing everything wrong and ruining the planet for you. It’s up to you to take your rightful place on the top of a mountain and preach. Preach your word! Preach long and endlessly never allowing anyone else to say anything, talk until all others are silent and know that only you are worthy of the power of speech (unless they have been permitted to praise you or they need to apologise profusely for their sins and apologise profusely in vain).



You are the embodiment of the Messiah complex. I mean, you’re the perfect genius ideal saviour of the world. The only problem with this is that there are all these little bothersome practical details which are beneath you to deal with and you need some disciples, acolytes, to do them for you so that you can focus on your noble purpose and heroic cause.

What you need to succeed is a good woman or man, maybe even several ordinary mortals of either gender, to be your personal everything – mother, father, babysitter, assistant, dogsbody, slave, and receptacle of your extreme frustration, a vessel into which you can discard all those parts of yourself which aren’t yours, you know, the human bits which inspire such self-loathing and fear in you.

It’s an honour, so they should be grateful that you have hand-picked them for the role. They occasionally think you care what they think and feel, and that you’re abusing and mistreating them. They may even accuse you of taking advantage of them. Some people don’t know how lucky they are that you noticed they were alive and took them under your wing and attached them to you as though they were an extension of you. I know it’s a nuisance, but every Messiah must bear a cross, every genius must tolerate fools, every god needs mortals to worship them. And since you’re all of those in one, the weight of the universe is on your shoulders. The good news is that you only have to carry the universe when you’re in public, in private you can dump it onto your surrogate mother’s shoulders. It’ll crush them but they’re replaceable. You are not replaceable. You’re one of a kind and were handmade by angels, rolled on the thighs of vestal virgins.


Ghost king by MadLittleClown

The most important thing for you to remember is that you are right and everyone else is wrong. You know the truth and everyone else is a liar. You are the only one of any worth to walk the Earth and all the others inhabitants of this planet are allowed to be here because you tolerate their presence on condition that they play the role which they were destined and assigned to play by you. You need an audience, worshippers. You need offerings of Narcissistic Supply on a regular basis, a constant basis. If you don’t get your fix you could die, which would be excruciatingly embarrassing for an immortal.

When you’re low on supply this strange pressure builds up inside of you, intolerable pain, stress which threatens to rip you apart from the inside out. You know it as The Fear. Ordinary mortals know it as emotions, feelings, conscience. You’ve heard of these things, and mimic them with great skill, but you don’t know what they are, you never learned about such things, you were too busy being prepared for greatness to have such flaws, such imperfections.

These flaws and imperfections were put in a box deep inside of you and they amalgamated into The Fear. Narcissistic Supply keeps The Fear appeased, but when the supply runs out, The Fear rises up. It wreaks havoc within and threatens the fragile construct of your idyllic version of reality, it wants to kill your identity. The only way to avoid self annihilation is to unleash The Fear on the world outside, let it wreak its havoc on others, not on you, let it feed on human sacrifices until it is full and sated, then it will return to its box and keep quiet for a while. And you’ll be safe again.

And it always feels so refreshing to let The Fear out, clears the air, and lightens your load. Pity that others always seem to rain on your apres-tantrum joy parade.

happy quote

Your best sources of Narcissistic Supply are:

1 – A group of people who admire you and think the Sun shines out of your ass. Which is why so many Narcissists choose a career in dream selling. People always love you when you sell them their dreams. If you dangle those dreams before them just out of their grasping hands they’ll give you everything they have just so you’ll let them have what is already theirs and charge them dearly for it. Their gratitude will feed you Narcissistic Supply for years (as long as you have lots of desperate and confused followers, so be certain to confuse them and encourage their desperation using critical digs and put downs which lower the level of their self-esteem).

2 – Sexual conquests. The seduction part is the most nourishing for your ego, especially if your target thinks that they are hard to get. No one is hard to get for you. In fact sometimes you despair at how easy people are to get, just tell them the truth about themselves (because mortals withhold this stuff from other mortals out of fear and thus they’re starving to hear it), tell them how beautiful, talented, gifted and special they are (they won’t believe it, but they long to believe it because somewhere under their inner mental mantra of never being good enough they know they are better than good enough), and they will be like puppets on strings which you control. You never need worry about telling them the truth about how much you admire them because you know how to wipe their memories of it afterwards.

The orgasmic sensations which course through your body as you watch yourself seducing them, convincing them to lower their drawbridge, let down their defenses and invite you willingly into their treasure room not knowing that you aren’t the knight in shining armor – you’re not a knight, you’re a king and kings don’t do rescues – you’ve cleverly led them to believe you are but you’re a pirate intent on plundering, is the greatest rush of Narcissistic supply ever. The actual act of sex is your payment to them for services rendered. Since you’re a sex god, they really are getting out of you much more than you’re getting out of them.

Your sexual conquests may become addicted to you. Treat them mean and keep them keen while their Narcissistic Supplies last. Once they run out of it and start being a drain on your precious time, attention and patience, just discard them onto the heap where all the other bodies are. And make sure you have a surrogate mother to clean up after your mess.

Narcissist lover

3 – The Surrogate Mother. This can be male or female. You can also have more than one, which is quite a good idea because when you’ve exhausted one, the other one can step in to the breach. Remember it is important to have one of these as you do not handle the details of day to day living. You need someone to do this for you as you have more important things to do. Make sure when choosing a surrogate mother that you pick someone with great stamina to put up with all your shit. Someone who will willingly sacrifice their paltry needs to cater to your vital ones. Someone who will censor themselves into complete silence and keep themselves imprisoned there. Someone who believes that their copious amounts of love can save you from yourself and heal your deep gaping suppurating wound. Make sure you give them your wound and maybe they’ll actually be able to heal it for you. Punish them regularly if they fail you in any way or make any demands whatsoever. They like this as they give you lots of Narcissistic supply when you do it.

Do not forget to test them on a continuous basis. They are not to be trusted (no one is to be trusted because you judge others based on yourself and you know you’re not trustworthy). Their vows of love and caring and all that other mortal emotional stuff must be challenged and they must be made to prove their love over and over and over again and it will never be enough to satisfy you.

If they misbehave and step out of line. Abandon them for a while. It’s quite a good idea to let them be aware that you have found a replacement for them who is much better, more beautiful, more talented, more special than they are during this time. The competition for your very special love is fierce. You love it when mortals fight over you, it exhalts your superior being status. They will suffer greatly, realise their guilt, feel ashamed, and come running after you beginning for your forgiveness. You can pretend to give it to them, but don’t ever let them forget that they have wronged you.

common denominator of crazy exes - someecards

4 – Your Progeny. If you decide to have children, to pass on your golden seed and create a mini version of yourself, remember they will probably only be half immortal, so they’re you but a diluted version. They do belong to you and you own them. They are useful tools for manipulating your surrogate mother, especially when punishing her for giving them attention which she should be giving to you.

They are also a lifetime source of Narcissistic Supply. Remember to remind them that you are the perfect parent and only a perfect child will be tolerated. Make sure Society considers you to be a perfect parent, play to the crowd, when in public show  the world what an awesome parent you are and how lucky your child is to have you… so that you can’t be blamed if they are screwed up and make a mess of their lives, but you can claim all the credit for their successes and achievements, and for them turning out well. Undermine their confidence subtly all the time and make them spend their entire life trying to win a moment of genuine affection from you.

narcissist-relationship -

I think you have enough to work with, but it’s not work for you, it’s a pleasure. Now go and save the world, great Saviour!


*This is mostly based on my father, a Narcissist. I have never had a romantic relationship with a Narcissist due to observing the modus operandi of the male Narcissist, in public and in private, and knowing about my father’s attitude towards other people which he shared with great pride and at length in detail. He was a serial adulterer and his sexual conquests often stayed with us in our home. I watched him seduce them, then take them to pieces afterwards and discard them. My mother cleaned up the mess. Don’t feel sorry for my mother, she is also a Narcissist. I know way too much about their sex lives, and having two Narcissists teach you about the Birds and the Bees… well, it’s surprising that I decided to have any romantic relationships at all.

I have known other male Narcissists. My childhood was populated by Narcissists, and I attract them, but male Narcissists usually do not find me sexually attractive.

There is very little difference between a heterosexual male Narcissist and a homosexual male Narcissist. Most Narcissists are open to bisexuality because what they seek is to be admired and adored. Whether they are vocally open about their sexuality depends on the Society they are living in, they are very aware of Society’s ideals, and on their image of what an ideal man should be.

**I have used some quotes in my Zen of Narcissists series from a site called The link will take you to some information and an advert for a book. The site is part of They have lots of resources for those dealing with a relationship with a Narcissist. I have only briefly explored it. Love their quotes!

***series sponsored by – this link will take you to, a brilliant source for information on how to heal from a relationship with a Narcissist written by someone who knows what it’s like, has survived and is sharing her experience, and the Narcissist Slayers award nominations where you will find links to excellent blogs which offer advice and personal experience of relationships with Narcissists.

****More information, articles, links and resources can be found here – – Victims of Narcissistic Abuse – NPD – Sociopath – Psychopath Help Guide


  1. You nailed aspects of The Messiah (the Narcissist raised by a Narcissist) I haven’t seen anyone hit before. I especially like the ‘giant among ants’ idea, as I’d observed this but hadn’t quite connected the dots, as the people I’m thinking of in this capacity seemed to be surrounding themselves with the tiniest of ants–and I wondered how that could be satisfying for them; now I know. I know two sets of narcissistic mothers who raised messiah-deluded sons; one of them hasn’t reproduced, thank the gods, but the other has, and he treats his child precisely as you described. I know the sh*t will hit the fan soon enough, as the child is smart, and may soon come to resent the way his father feeds on him/ tries to hold him in a child-dependent state for his own gratification. I stay at a safe distance and take notes. Thanks for a very enlightening read!


    • Thank you 🙂

      I had an insight into the dynamic of the Narcissist’s Messiah complex after reading The Mosquito Coast by Paul Theroux. It is a fantastic book. The main character reminded me of my father and explained a lot to me. The film did not have the sharp vision of the book and lost much of the complexity of the relationship dynamics.

      Most Narcissistic males have a strange and strong bond with their mother. It is often a love/hate relationship and no one else is allowed to comment on it. The mother often replaced the father with her son, whether the father was around or not, crowning her son as the heir of manhood and her little soldier and hero. The mother may also be a misandrist, but will encourage her son to be a misogynist to keep him to herself. The son may be confused about whether he was a son or a surrogate husband – hence he looks for a mate who will play the role of surrogate mother because relationship lines are very blurred and boundaries are non-existent.

      Growing up in a Narcissistic family is similar to a cult and just as difficult to escape and deprogram yourself. You’re correct to stay at a safe distance as you would only get sucked into the drama. It is unfortunately/fortunately up to the child to awaken to what is happening and then free themselves. It does help to have an outsider give you a ray of hope that there is a different way of life beyond the reality you are trapped in, and that not everyone sees you the way your Narcissistic parent (or parents) does, but it can be hazardous for the outsider to do that. A friend of my father’s wrote me a letter and managed to give it to me without letting either of my parents know. It was very simple and just told me to believe in myself. That letter made a huge difference to the path I took.

      Writing about this from this perspective has been very useful to me, I learn a bit more each time and clarify more for myself, I’m glad it is helpful to others too.

      Liked by 1 person

  2. hi dear!
    I’d like to add a few examples as it took me ages and my previous therapy to figure out.
    if he wants to see you at the beginning of the relationship, it’s not because he wants to know you better or enjoy time with you:he enjoys his image of himself you are giving back, so your n suupply;in the meanwhile you dream of a blossoming feeling of love and you see tender attachment when in reality nothing is tender or attached.
    if he opens a bottle of Chateau Yquem 1989 or Corton Charlemagne 1988 it is not to please you and to show you you are worth it, but it’s just his boastful image he’s working on, megalomaniac of sophisticated mannerisms; or taking you to an expensive restaurant, it’s just to impress you as after this first phase of seduction, once he’s smitten you, you are not worth it anymore.
    And last but not the least, if he wants you to meet and spend time with his mentally disabled son, it’s not for a sense of family of tender feelings of sharing, but he just can’t cope with the shit and you do all the job.
    And if he decides to leave you at the ritzy lutetia bar, it’s just because of his image.being a jerk with a megalomaniac twist.
    ah! i was forgetting….no sex drive at all, have you ever made love to emptiness?sense of humor is the only thing i have been left with!


    • Thank you for sharing. The more we know about how Narcissists function or don’t function, the more the boundaries between what is us and what is them become defined, which is important for our own sanity and healing.


      • Dear Ursula,
        i’d like to hear what you think about this. Concerning the matter of understanding the Nlogic, i have been told we can’t really project on others unless we do it ourselves, unless it’s an active mechanism in us; is this the reason why it’s so difficult to grasp how it works for them and also why my reactions in general, but i guess coming from the N training i have been given in my family, are always put off, as though i had a sort of paralysis in front of them?
        Sorry if my post sounded very personal but it took me such a long time to understand it because of this matter of a different logic, when you are involved with someone it’s hard to admit that there is no feeling behind actions.
        take care,


        • Understanding Narcissistic logic can be very tricky because it is fundamentally illogical. They think like a child of about 5 years of age. Much of their thinking is magical thinking. They believe that they can create their own reality and identity just by thinking it into being, imagining it and making it real, and that’s exactly what they do, however they don’t understand that not everyone agrees with their thinking. They get very frustrated when confronted by the fact that other people do not share their version of reality and don’t accept their version of identity, their own and the one they give to others.

          Projection is a huge part of a Narcissist’s way of being because they have no boundaries between self and other, other people are an extension of them and their identity. Since they tend to live inside of a story, usually a fairytale or myth, sometimes a soap opera, they assign roles to everyone, but those roles are one-dimensional and don’t allow for the other person to have any identity or story of their own. Once a Narcissist has given you a part to play in their story, that is that, that is who you are. They sometimes reassign roles, especially with a hero role, the hero often becomes a villain because the hero disappointed the Narcissist.

          It’s basically like playing pretend when you’re with a Narcissist. You know, like when we were children and we played games where we were pirates or something like that, and one child gets to pretend to be a pirate captain, and another pretends to be a princess on a ship which is raided by the pirates, and the princess is captured, and there are soldiers fighting the pirates and so on. That’s how they live life and have relationships. It’s all a larger than life sized game of pretend. A fantasy made real, but it’s only real to the Narcissist, and for a while it is real for those who get sucked into the game.

          It’s important to express what you’ve experienced and understood, by expressing it your understanding evolves bit by bit. You’ve got a lot of insight and now you’re fine tuning it until all the pieces fall into place and you’ll see the details and the big picture together in one.

          Paralysis around a Narcissist is a normal reaction because they censor people until they trap them in a very small space. You can’t speak or act or think because they block you. To break the paralysis takes patience with yourself, and time, and doing what you’re doing, gradually understanding more and more about them and about you. The paralysis will fade as you progress and become something else which will frighten Narcissists and paralyse them when they are with you. Give it time, you’re halfway there.


          • So, if i got it right, projection in their mind is followed by manipulation in order to have you play the role they have ascribed to you, and you become a sort of puppet acting on its own but unconsciously making their vision come true. I am not aware yet until it happens, therefore i need to focus on my instincts and emotions more;that’s why i ‘d like to get some practice with my N female “friend”.
            Saying things loud, in this case writing them here, it’s something I have never experienced before, as i am not used to claim i am hurt, my parents twisted and laughed at my grief. Thank you for showing me how to heal.
            i have another query, as I stopped seeing a very old friend of mine all of a sudden afer thirty years, who behaves with her son exactly as you have just described it below: is this behaviour typical of N mothers?


            • Yes, that’s pretty much how their projection works. It varies slightly depending on the N and depending on their story and what role they have assigned to you.

              Getting things out into the open, especially writing about them helps to clarify your thoughts and your own words can often give you insight, because we see more than we realise we do.

              When you acknowledge your own feelings, it helps to release them from being trapped, and that can provide a lot of healing. It’s like screaming when you physically hurt yourself, if you try not to scream and pretend it doesn’t hurt it can make the pain worse, but if you scream it can make it better. So saying you’re hurt when you are is a powerful thing to do. By acknowledging it you validate it and set yourself on course to heal.

              I don’t know if all N mothers behave that way with their sons, but N mothers do tend to be very invasive of their children as they don’t see boundaries between themselves and others, and they do think of their children as being their property, and they expect their child to fulfill an important role for them, often to do something which they wanted to do but couldn’t so they live through their child. There is also a subtext of wanting to steal the child’s youth away from them. N’s do not like to age.

              Be sure to balance your time with your N friend with time with non-N friends, it helps to compare how you feel around the N and non-N and see how they behave to get a whole picture. And it’s also important to spend time with people who enjoy your company without an agenda.

              Take care of yourself, and keep doing what you’re doing, it’s great 😀


  3. Would you say male Narcissists are more obvious? Less sneaky perhaps? It seems I’ve met quite a few people like you describe and I’ve known it in an instant. Then again, they weren’t trying to get any more from me than perhaps a sale… I’ve only been in one brief relationship with a man that went exactly as you describe. It was so brief though, that it was merely a blip.


    • I don’t know. That’s a very good question. I’ve been wondering something similar and been trying to figure it out but I lack sufficient data.

      There are more females who openly talk (and blog and write articles) about their relationships with Narcissistic men than there are males who talk about their relationships with Narcissistic females. I think men may be less analytical about their relationships than women are and thus we’re more aware of how male Narcissists behave than how female Narcissists behave.

      And the women who talk openly about their relationships with a Narcissistic female tend to focus on their Narcissistic mother rather than Narcissistic female friends and lovers.

      Men tend to be very loyal towards their male friends and lovers and often don’t discuss openly (or publicly) if they have had an experience with a male Narcissist.

      Ergo it’s more obvious in a male than in a female because we know what to look for and what the red flags are in a male Narcissist. The female Narcissist may be getting away with it simply because we are not aware of what signs to look out for. Or she may be better at covering her tracks. Or gender stereotypes may be protecting her from being exposed. Gender stereotypes do support the male Narcissist, especially in certain places such as the corporate environment, but they also leave him more exposed because he has less of a need to hide.

      And of course our gender probably in relevant to how we deal with males and females.

      Must do more research, get some feedback from blokes on this, and do some more thinking. Let me know if you find an answer 🙂


  4. Thank you, thank you, thank you. I have been with my “Narc” for 14 years, and just recently began to understand this “relationship”. Thank you also for the links. I need all the support I can find while trying to get a job, which is all that stands between me and freedom! Bless you!


    • Thank you 😀

      I wish you all the best finding a job and freeing yourself. It’s a challenge, but very worth the strength and effort needed to meet it. 14 years is a long time, so be gentle with yourself and give yourself plenty of time to heal and gather your strength. Knowledge is a powerful weapon when dealing with Narcissists, and luckily there is a lot of it on the internet and much of it comes from people who have experienced relationships with Narcissists so they know how difficult the path ahead of you is and they offer support and encouragement.

      There’s a gift every Narcissist gives those who have a relationship with them, underneath all the hell of it, that hell forces you to get to know yourself and discover your strength and courage and personal power. Trust yourself.


        • You will, just trust yourself, not an easy thing to do after being with a Narcissist but very necessary, you know what you need, you know what you need to do, your intuition, instincts and intelligence will guide you. Be gentle with yourself, baby steps, one day at a time, one step at a time, focus on your goal – the Narcissist will try to confuse you and focus you every which way but where you want to go – stay focused and determined – if you falter just gently nudge yourself back on track. And if you have doubts, let them flow in and out of you.

          Do you have a support system, people who know what’s up and can back you up? If yes, rely on them and allow them to help as long as you feel comfortable and they support your choices. If no, use your blog and express yourself there, and connect with other bloggers who are in a similar situation on a similar path. You’re welcome here anytime you need a boost or just to know that you’re not alone or anything you need 🙂


  5. Dear Upturned Soul,

    My husband is 33 years old and is the son of two narcissists. The father is exactly as you describe (the kind who hated his mother) and the mother is the silent treatment, let me live through you…how you make me silently suffer-type (obsessed with and loved her father all his life). I knew his family was really screwed up when I first met him and, consequently, initially rejected him. However, I did finally (he was persistent) fall in love, and he is sweet. He did fairly well at living joyfully until we became seriously ill about two years ago (we’ve been married ten years and together almost 12 years). Then, he started turning into his mother…turned inward, depressed, unable to relate to anything or anyone…luckily, while self-absorbed, not narcissistic (as far as I know). We were getting better and so were many aspects of our lives, yet he never expressed true joy or gratitude. I became bored with him and resented him (over a period of a year). Luckily, I didn’t have an affair but sent him to a psychologist.

    Now, about six months later, he did make some progress, but I am having him switch psychologists so he can discuss his parents. He kept mentioning them initially and so I watched them very closely during their visit this summer. I was horrified by my close examination of them and I drew tight boundaries with them, ignoring them for much of the vacation. Now, I have advised my husband to stop calling them each week. (They live overseas.) I feel it is their method of programming him or keeping his childhood programming of their ideal images in place.

    He seemed more joyful, however, still zombie-like about his problems. So, I asked him why he worried about what his parents said about him…why he repeated bad things about himself..he doesn’t have a good memory…he doesn’t have emotions, etc…I said..After all, they’re just two narcissists. He stared at me and asked me what I meant by that. My family had been one of psychopaths (by that, I mean, sociopaths through genetic predisposition) and I have learned to disregard most of what they ever said to me, so it just seemed natural that, surely, my husband didn’t believe the weirdos in his family. He did though. At that moment, I saw that he had never really contemplated his programming, never fought it. So, with great luck, I found your lovely site where you describe being the child of two narcissist parents. I read the entire thing to him…it all applied..not trusting, feeling empty and lost, trying to please everyone, not really feeling your emotions and being trapped in a prison of silence.

    I don’t quite relate to it, but that is why I rely on all your posts. I need this window into his psyche to try to help him jar himself loose, into the happier, freer being he was before the recession, before he became ill and went back to his childhood default. He was literally amazed by what you wrote. He had felt himself alone, thinking he was the flawed one. He had never questioned this version of reality. Luckily, his brother is a bit farther along on the process, and I encouraged him to strengthen his relationship with his brother this summer. (Their parents instilled distrust and jealousy between all the siblings.) The youngest, his sister, seems to be developing some narcissistic traits, but I suppose time will tell.

    You changed his whole reality, I think. I was so ecstatic to find your detailed writings. They are invaluable. Thank you so much. I will probably have to read and reread your site many times. I especially love your explanations of how you felt, as I identify most with victims of narcissists. I can spot narcissists fairly well (they are a lot like psychopaths to me…only less scary), and so I just aborted a relationship (only about a month and a half long) with one that I had experimentally allowed to progress. However, I never understood or contemplated the damaged psyches of those who fall for and believe these people. I, especially, never thought about a child having two narcissistic parents with no other role model. I was lucky enough to have a normal parent for six years (before her death), so I always knew when things were up. I never wanted to judge my husband’s parents, but I’m so glad I finally did (verbally, I mean, in front of him) so that he could discover your experiences. I love him and want him to smile again sincerely, to really enjoy life again, to have self-confidence again (he has a terrible inferiority complex, I think) and, most of all, to hope and dream again.

    Thank you for sharing!


    • Thank you 😀


      I should really get my partner to write a post about being in a relationship with a child of Narcissists. I’ll ask him, he’s very private, but I would love for him to do it.

      Before I met him I had already done a lot of work on myself because I knew that I wasn’t prepared for a healthy relationship. But it’s very difficult to know how to have a healthy relationship when your role models for relating are Narcissists. You basically have to deprogram yourself, delete everything you’ve been taught and start afresh. The values a child of Narcissists inherits and absorbs… are ideals which are impossible to attain and so you live under the pressure of never being good enough ever no matter what you or anyone else does.

      However as much work as I did do before I met my partner, which did help, at least it helped me to find a partner who was not a Narcissist, it still left a lot that needed dealing with because when we are alone we stay very guarded, but when we fall in love we feel safe… and that’s when everything which we’ve kept at bay surfaces.

      I think I read about it so I was prepared, but only intellectually prepared. Can’t recall the author who wrote about the dark side of love and how love allows us to face our dark side because we feel a certain safety to do so. But that dark side also threatens the safety which love has given us. It’s as though our suppressed and repressed fears surface and seek to be confronted and healed in the relationship. And it tests the strength of the love.

      When both parents are Narcissists it is rare for a child to actually become a Narcissist because they are not allowed to by the parents. There is a self-destruct mechanism programmed into the child. The child is not allowed to outshine or challenge the parents, in fact they are expected to fail and disappoint. This is their purpose. To be a failure. In everything. Thus they must also fail at being in a relationship with anyone. They must not be loved or be loveable because the parents have decided that it is so.

      So to accept love, real genuine love from another person, is very difficult as it goes against everything you have been programmed to believe about yourself and about others. How can someone love you when your own parents don’t and have told you that it’s your fault that you are unlovable? It’s known in psychology as cognitive dissonance.

      The paradoxes this causes can split a person’s mind into warring factions. Deep depression and suicidal thoughts ensue.

      I think that the gender of the child makes a difference. Females are more analytical than males, especially where relationships are concerned, they tend to question interactions more and seek answers. Men tend to feel more deeply and don’t analyse their feelings as much. They’re also more loyal. They make a bond and don’t question it as easily and as much as females do. But I’ve never been a male so I’m not sure about that, it’s just based on observing my relationships with males and females. My male friends tend to be more forgiving when I screw up.

      I questioned my parents and the validity of their truth early on in my life, but didn’t understand what I was questioning until much later. I reckon I would have left my parents when I was about 5 years old if I could have done so. Not being able to do so meant I had to adjust my view of what was wrong and right to suit them. To survive I had to repress my reality in favour of theirs. This plays a huge part in what happens within the psyche of a child of Narcissists. Growing up in a family dominated by two Narcissists is like growing up in a cult. Escape is not an option. Society does not support you, in fact it supports the Narcissists. So you rewire yourself. You escape in another way, by denying your true self in favour of a false version of you which eventually becomes real if you want to hold onto a small speck of sanity. You go mad to stay sane. This is very hard to undo and takes an enormous effort and support from extraordinary people (people like you).

      My partner did meet my parents and expressed a similar view to yours about your husband’s parents. I saw that as a confirmation, but I still allowed them to influence the relationships for a while. Societal pressure to be a good child even though your parents are abusive causes the child to refuse it’s own truth in favour of the majority’s truth, thus in favour of the Narcissistic parents who play to the opinion of society and know how to manipulate popular opinion. I had already begun to detach from my parents when I met my partner… but it took some very intense experiences for me to cut off all contact. Even after cutting off physical contact… their voices and programming in your head… takes a lot of work, awareness, willingness to feel extreme pain, and a very solid partner and support.

      Coincidentally it was an illness, both my partner and I got ill with different things at about the same time, which was a catalyst for a complete change and a lot of healing.

      Writing about my experiences on my blog is an essential part of my self therapy.

      I’m doing this for myself and it is very selfish… something which many children of Narcissists find difficult to do… and what I share openly, breaking my silence, has had an amazing, for me, bonus of helping others. I can’t ever explain how much that means to me.

      Thank you for sharing.

      Trust yourself and take care of yourself. Both you and your husband.

      Feel free to talk with me on my blog any time you need to. Self expression is very healing, even when it doesn’t seem that way, sometimes just saying something… that’s all you need to do.


      • To survive I had to repress my reality in favour of theirs. This just rang so many bells for me… also that the child of narc parents is programmed to fail….I really do wonder how you managed to come to so much clarity on all of this….. because its a herculean task… it seems to me that suicidal depression is so much a critical turning point of this journey into realisation…. is there some further comment you can make on that. I feel that this kind of depression is so much a result of the murder of our true self and reality in deference, not only to the parent, but to the society that never believes us anyway and just judges us with the same lack of empathy for being messed up….


        • My suicidal depression took me to the very edge and did so in a way where I didn’t actually have to commit suicide because my body was ill and I could let it die from the illness. I’ve written about it here – – it’s quite a dark post so don’t read it unless you can deal with someone else’s darkness and not absorb it. But it has a happy ending 🙂

          I struggled a lot with the fact that society seemed to be on my parents’ side and they used it to keep me under their thumb. I think it’s one of the reason I made the sort of choices I have about how to live my life and why I am so stubbornly rebellious. If society says – do this – my first thought is – no – then I think – why exactly do you want me to do that? – then I investigate and often find hypocrisy disguised as advice.

          Depression is the suppression of joie de vivre – at least mine was mostly that. The will (which includes primal joy) to live was crushed.


  6. Gosh yes.. the paralysis … you feel you cant move.. they have sown you a suit and it doesn’t fit the arms are too short and there is no way to get out of it.. and the more you try the more it shrinks until you are all pinned inside it..the frustration and angst of that is usually so hard to put in words but as usual you nailed it


    • That feeling – that’s how they feel and they are passing it on. It’s also a guide to knowing if you’re with a Narcissist or not when you’re unsure, because they start sewing it on the moment they meet you.


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