What is the best Revenge against a Narcissist?

Nietzsche quote - Daniel Clarke imageimage by Daniel Clarke

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What is the best revenge against a narcissist?

This question is a search term which someone used online which brought them to my blog. Whether they found what they were looking for or not, I don’t know.

And I don’t know what the best revenge against a narcissist is.

I could relate my own experiences of the narcissists whom I have know and had to live with and deal with. But I did not go down the revenge route, other than the living well is the best revenge path (and it took me ages to figure that out and then do it).

I could say – Don’t go down this path, it is not recommended by me, not if you’re dealing with a real narcissist, someone with NPD, rather than just someone whom you think is a narcissist but isn’t one. If they are a real narcissist – you’ll be sorry. If they aren’t a real narcissist, you’ll be sorry in a very different kind of way.

I could scroll through my memory banks for times when people managed to get the upper hand over my parents. It’s not that difficult to remember those times as I usually ended up paying for someone else’s victory rather painfully, and painful memories are hard to forget (I’ve tried a billion times to do so… sometimes it is better to let them be as is, or use them in a constructive, inspiring way). Recalling what those people did to get their victory over my parents is harder than recalling the consequences of it.

My parents, like most narcissists (narcissists in this case = people with NPD rather than those who are very narcissistic but don’t have NPD), did not like losing in any way, shape or form, and for a narcissist just about anything can be considered a loss. Their egos are huge, hyper-sensitive and very prone to being damaged by the slightest thing, which is why they can go from sugary sweet or immensely charming to viciously vitriolic in a blink of an eye.

For those who’ve used the search term – How to piss off a narcissist – or variations on that theme. That is the easiest thing in the world to do if you’re dealing with a real narcissist because narcissists are always pissed off even when they seem to be in a good mood. That good mood is a superficial veneer which covers an inner seething. That good mood may seem genuine, and sometimes it is if they’ve had a dose of ego boost, but it can vanish very quickly as they use it up hungrily and need more and more at ever higher doses. If they don’t get their next dose, or if it isn’t enough to satisfy them, their fragile ego, they may spiral into a pit of fury, despair, fear, self-pity, and many other causes for intense drama into which they will suck everyone around them like a black hole.

If someone is ‘hard to piss off’, then they are probably not a narcissist at all. They could be a sociopath, or they could be a regular person (who isn’t perfect, may have made a mistake, disappointed or hurt you… you’re not perfect either) being immensely patient, empathic, and understanding about your attempts to piss them off… and they may begin to wonder if perhaps you’re a narcissist in this scenario.

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red haircrow quote

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Someone getting a victory over a narcissist tends to trigger all those things which lead to the black hole mood. And if the victor thinks they can get far and fast enough away from the consequences of their victory over a narcissist… maybe they can, but appearances can be deceiving, and the narcissist is not the only one who deceives with appearances. We can all do it, and do it to ourselves not just others, especially when we aren’t seeing clearly for whatever reason.

My parents tended to get obsessed by those who scored a victory over them, and would spend an inordinate amount of time plotting their revenge to get back at the person who had bested them.

I got to be the fly on the wall (stuck in the room with no way out), the captured audience (the Stockholm Syndrome child), of not only their rage and fury, misery, hate and engulfing self-pity, but also their plots to get revenge on the victor. Narcissists love to talk and talk and talk and talk, about the same thing over and over and over and over again. When they are focused on one person, they will discuss that person to death, often also plotting their demise and smiling with pleasure at their own fantasies, while feeling perfectly justified doing it. In the land of a real narcissist, the bad guy is everyone else, they are the hero of their own story and reality. Their reality is the only reality. Anyone who disagrees is a villain.

If you want to never ever get a narcissist out of your life, out of your head, out of your heart, out from under your skin, then engage them in one of their favourite pasttimes – the revenge games. They will thrive, feeding off your obsession with them. They don’t mind if you hate them, hate is synonymous with love to them and they often prefer that kind of love, as long as you make them the focal point of your life, attention, passion, mind, body, heart and soul.

You’ll need a lot of stamina, determination, perseverance and a willingness to do and say things which require a lack of conscience, empathy, sympathy or concern for consequences. You’ll need to stay angry, miserable, and in continuous pain for however long it takes, which won’t be hard as the narcissist in your life will nourish you well in this area – they will turn everything in your life, within and without you, into a wasteland. Your heart will become hard and black like charcoal, and will burn and burn with an eternally dark flame.

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work on paper by Laurie LiptonTete a Tete by Laurie Lipton

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They will blame you for all of it, and you won’t be able to shake the thought that in a way they are right about that. That will hurt… perhaps more than anything else. The thought that you may be a part of what they have been doing to you will be a parasitic doubt which will eat you up from the inside out.

Why didn’t you just walk away? What made you stay and engage in a battle which is never-ending? Why can’t you let go of the narcissist? Go No Contact as recommended?

Some things are easier said than done, some advice is easier to give than receive and even harder to apply, some things are easier asked than answered.

And once you’ve engaged in open war with a narcissist… can you stop? Won’t that be letting them win? And what if they won’t let you stop or let them win? What if they won’t let you go? What if you tried to go and only engaged in battle because they wouldn’t let you go?

And what if you can win this? What if victory is just over the horizon, around the next corner, the finish line is up ahead (next to the end of the rainbow)… and you give up just moments before you could have claimed victory (and a pot of gold)?

And what if you actually manage to be victorious and serve a narcissist their just desserts?

Whatever you do, don’t be fooled by an apparent victory. If the narcissist goes silent, retreats and appears to have accepted your superior skills of vengeance over theirs… like with everything else that a narcissist does, this is just a facade. They are regrouping their forces, rethinking their tactics, and researching new ways to get back at you. This battle isn’t over even if the fat lady sings, that’s just an intermission… or a sly tactic to lull you into false security.

The moment you relax, resting on your laurels, they’ll be back with a sneak attack.

They may have used the time during which you thought you’d won and were celebrating and relaxing to find your weak spot, an area which you thought was safe, which you’d hidden from them somewhere where they would never find it.

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your story

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They may have moved in on your territory socially, and slowly taken over, infiltrating themselves into every nook and cranny which you thought was yours and was free from them. Such as befriending your best friend, slowly poisoning their mind against you. And even if your best friend is aware of this person, who and what they are,  there are no guarantees that this will protect you or your friend.

They may have joined a club to which you belong, and where you go to relax and recuperate from your battle with the narcissist. It may even be a place where you go to get support. If you’re part of a victim of narcissists support group – the narcissist may well turn up there with their own story about being a victim of a narcissist, and if you recognise yourself in their stories, they’ll enjoy that, they have you exactly where they want you, cornered and unable to move. And they may well believe that you are the narcissist in the relationship, it explains a lot to them about the way you have behaved and the manner in which you’ve been treating them. They’ll find it easier to convince others in the support group about you being the narcissist than you will be at doing the same about them, and it won’t matter if you’ve been a long time member of this group and they’ve only just joined, in fact that may work to their advantage.

If a narcissist accuses you of being the narcissist, they will do it far more effectively than you. Anything you can do, they can do it too… they can do it better and worse – because they’ve done the research, the same research you’ve done, only narcissists listen differently than non-narcissists do, they absorb information in a way which causes it to become a part of them. They become the information. They will have studied every trait which defines a victim of a narcissist and they will embody every trait, until they are the ultimate victim who has experienced more pain and abuse than any other victim ever. They are very competitive and victimhood is a fierce competition for them, one which they intend to win, and they will stop at nothing to win it.

So, in your quest for vengeance against a narcissist, you may end up becoming the very monster which you were fighting. And the narcissist will win… again.

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hero:villain - damien carrion

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If you don’t believe me, that narcissists can infiltrate groups for victims of narcissists, be they ACoN groups or otherwise… there are plenty of stories told by others, on other blogs, about this out there online. Use your search engine, use it wisely.

And narcissists can be those offering you a cure to heal from narcissistic abuse. So, be careful. Trust your instincts, trust your intuition, trust yourself before you trust someone else and what they are offering you, especially if they are offering you a miracle cure – a favourite of narcissists.

I’m not going to link you to the articles which I have come across pertaining to this issue, as I don’t want to get caught up in a narcissist drama – I’ve had enough of that to last me several lifetimes, and hopefully I’ve finally learned my lesson, or one of many lessons which real narcissists teach inadvertently. I will however suggest watching – Web Therapy (this links you to the wiki page, which links you to the official site – videos are available for free online) – by Lisa Kudrow, Don Roos and Dan Bucatinsky. This type of fiction… reflects reality rather well, and really isn’t fiction at all.

Of course none of this is relevant if the narcissist whom you are fighting, against whom you wanted revenge, is not an actual narcissist.

‘Narcissist’ has become a popular and trendy accusation for people we find annoying, mostly because they were being selfish by not making us the centre of their attention and universe. They wouldn’t be who we wanted them to be and wouldn’t do what we wanted them to do for us. That’s annoying, that annoyance caused us pain, that must make them a narcissist.

A great example of this dynamic is in the film – Don Jon (2013) by Joseph Gordon-Levitt.

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Don Jon Poster

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It is the story of a rather narcissistic young man who is living his life with little thought for anything other than getting his rocks off, notches on his bed post which feed his ego, having a fit body and seeing himself as being rather great from the outside, using the people around him to support his self-image. Then one day he meets a young woman who turns his world upside down. She is smart, beautiful, charismatic, and… in love with romantic films. She wants him to become the ideal she has of what a man should be for her – someone who does everything she tells him to do and makes her feel good about herself because of it. She is a narcissist, most likely a real one, the NPD kind of narcissist. She dumps him the moment he disappoints her expectations of him. He has done her wrong… she does absolutely nothing wrong. She’s perfect… he’s not = discard. She has no empathy or sympathy for him or anyone else. This experience forces him to self-reflect and look deeper into himself and how he is living his life. It is an excellent film, and has a poignant ending.

Please be careful when accusing someone of being a narcissist. Pause… and reflect… and self-reflect. If they have caused you pain you may experience them as being a narcissist, but that does not mean that they are a real narcissist. Don’t let the pain do your thinking, feeling and talking for you. Pain is a very narcissistic experience and we can end up causing more pain, passing our wound on to others in a similar manner that real narcissists do.

We all make mistakes… learn from them, use them to inspire, constructively…

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living well is the best revenge

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Rather than seeking revenge on a narcissist… figure out what living well means to you. Stop focusing your attention on them… redirect it onto yourself.

I know it’s hard… but consider yourself the best investment you’ll ever make in life. The most important relationship which you’ll ever have, the one which affects and influences all your other relationships, is the one which you have with yourself.

Take care of yourself.

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Update 2017 – I have recently come across an excellent blog (which also has a Youtube channel for those who prefer the spoken word, and the author of the blog has written books for those who prefer books).

This is the blog – Knowing the Narcissist

This is his Youtube channel – Knowing the Narcissist – Youtube

The author is a Narcissist – he states this in his bio, but before you run away, pause a minute, many victims of Narcissists have claimed to have found healing and help in their recovery through reading his posts (read the comments on his posts). I find his posts to be informative. In his posts he explains the Narcissist from the perspective of a Narcissist, and the Narcissist’s victims from the perspective of a Narcissist (and he gives detailed information about the different types and levels of Narcissists) – this is often what is missing for those trying to heal themselves after Narcissistic Abuse.

He is also rather patient, compassionate, and understanding for a Narcissist. Please be respectful – do not go there to bash a Narcissist, he is not your Narcissist.

Thank you for visiting. Take care of yourselves. Best wishes.

187 comments

    • Thank you 🙂

      Narcissists do have a way of bringing out our latent homicidal tendencies… sometimes we need to get in touch with the primal within, to find our strength to rise above and move beyond.

      Liked by 1 person

      • I would welcome your advice as I feel at conflict with myself at the moment, I could also need some constructive criticism,
        Two years ago I left a six year relationship with a man that had all but destroyed me, whilst I was still living him I was referred to a psychiatrist by my doctor because I was suffering from severe depression and I was close to taking my own life, the care worker that had been assigned to me went above and beyond to help me and within two days I was given a small apartment, I owe so much to these wonderful people who gave me help and understanding they gave me my life back at the very least, when I left this man, I felt that the person who I used to be no longer existed, my confidence was gone, I felt emotionally numb, and I found myself second guessing my own questions and thoughts, I was not even sure if I was insane or not, I also felt I hated myself, I was worthless, not worth loving, within a few weeks I felt stronger, but found my self feeling angry most of the time, and I felt hatred toward the man I had once loved so deeply for the pain he had put me through, I wanted revenge, but more than that I wanted answers to why I had been treated like this, it had seemed to be a pattern in my life, that went back as far as my childhood, you have no doubt whatsoever when you find an answer to the question you have been looking for most you life, because everything in your life suddenly makes perfect sense, I had heard the word narcissist, but it meant no more than just selfish, I never knew it was a personality disorder, since finding it, I have tried to find every resource, books, websites, videos, and hundreds of posts by people who have been through the torment of what I now know as narcissistic abuse, this knowlage has taken away my anger, I no longer feel hatred, instead I feel calm, and totally at ease with myself, and I have learned how to create my own boundarys I feel changed somehow within myself,
        But this is the reason that I am at conflict at the moment, when I left the relationship peter (that is his name) refused to let go, he knew where I had moved to, as it was not to far away from him, he was always asking if I needed anything, or if I needed help, he seemed to be in total self denial that any thing had been wrong in the relationship, his age by the way is seventy, and I am fifty three, and although I felt I hated him, I also found that I still cared about him, the odd thing is, because I was no longer in love with him he became harmless to me, and I just could not find it in my heart to be mean to him, and so have stayed on friendly terms, he did try to step over my boundarys once, but learned his lesson and has not attempted it since,
        Over the months his health has been deteriorating, understanding his narcissism has made it far easier for me to get along ok with him, and I tolerate the nightly calls from him, I called in to see if he needed anything today, I had not seen him for over a fortnight, as I have been distancing myself from him little by little, he was so happy to see me that tears ran down his face, I need to know, am I wrong to feel compassion for a man who not so long ago caused me so much pain, am I far to careing for my own good, as my family often tell me, do I walk away as some tell me I should, others tell me I should watch him suffer, but when I look at him all I see is a lonely human being, filled with so much sadness and pain, one website I came across even gives tips on how to tourture a narcissist, the truth is these people are tourtured enough already, peters pain runs too deeply to ever be healed, I thought I could help him heal when I first met him, now I know that it is better left buried, the only clue I have is that it happened to him as a child,
        Do I walk away, turn my back and tell myself that he will get what he deserves, part of me says that I should, I’ve got every right to, but another part of me asks what it would feel like to take his place, I can only imagine it as being lonely and full of despair, a person destroyed in childhood, through no fault of their own, should I remain his friend and try to bring a little happiness knowing he has someone who cares at least to the few years he has left, do I need the bitterness that clings to me, or do I let it go, someone not so long ago said to me that a man once said, an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind, whoever it was must have been very wise and enlightened, I try to remind myself of them often

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        • Thank you for sharing 🙂

          This is a complex situation and question – you have the answer to this, only you can answer this because you’re the one living it, so the real question may be about whether you accept your own answer to it.

          Part of you says – Leave and be done with this man and everything he represents for you.

          Part of you says – stay and… what?

          It’s Pros and Cons list time perhaps for you.

          What are the benefits for you if you stick with this man?

          What are the benefits if you decide not to stick with him and be done with him once and for all?

          Does a continued relationship with him rebalance power for you? He abused the ‘power’ he had in the relationship with you the first time around and made you feel ‘powerless’. The relationship with him made you rely on others to ‘save’ you because you had run out of ‘juice’ and were helpless. Luckily those others were not only trustworthy but up for this challenge and helped you get yourself a safe haven where you could heal and restore your personal power. Now you’re better and… suddenly he’s the one who is ‘powerless’ – now you have the upper hand. For how long will you have the upper hand in this scenario? Will he at some point flip things around again and once again you’ll suffer because he’s suffering.

          Narcissists hurt others because they’re hurting – that’s a big part of the narcissistic wound. They pass their pain on and on and on… hoping to cure themselves by doing the same thing over and over and over again hoping for different results even though they keep getting the same results. Curing themselves this way only ends up making things worse… and yet they don’t seem to see that. They don’t seem to learn anything from their experiences except how to be even more manipulative and intransigent in their ways.

          Does he really need your help, is he really helpless… or… has he just discovered, like certain types of narcissists do, that being ‘helpless’ in the eyes of others makes them even more ‘powerful’ than they were when they tried to appear powerful.

          Quick story – my father suffered his first stroke on the very same day that his long time partner decided to leave him. She had considered leaving him many times before but always stayed because he ‘needed’ her and his need for her fed her ego and her personal story. She’d had enough finally… was almost out the door, but then he had a stroke and… she never left. She stayed because she didn’t feel right about leaving him at that time anymore. He got even more abusive than he had ever been before because he hated relying on her and her ‘pity’. She stood by him through it all. This story was told to me by her so I don’t know how exact it is, but it is what she chose to tell and how she chose to see things.

          If this man really is a narcissist, really is an abuser… his illness won’t necessarily make any difference to how he is as a person. It might – there’s always one in a million chance for that.

          Maybe this is something you need to do for your continued healing… or maybe it’s repeating a deeply ingrained pattern.

          A situation of this sort involves more stories than the one at hand. What is the story which means the most to you right now?

          Another quote about eyes and being blind – “In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king” – this is attributed to Erasmus.

          Whatever you decide, and you must decide for yourself what to do, make sure you’re seeing things clearly for yourself as you will have to live with the consequences of your choice, others may be able to help you if your choice hurts you, but ultimately you’re the greatest helper you have, your own healer and decider of what happens with your story.

          Make the choice that is the one you want to make – make sure you confirm with yourself that you’re the one making that choice for you.

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  1. WOW so perfectly written. Great article, I am glad you are out and away, and living your life. I had a NPD ex for 22 years and lived through exactly what you describe and fed into the layers of hate and plotting even turning on my own parents. It was bad. Thank goodness I have been narc-free for 7 years and have healed quite a bit. Kudos on explaining it from your very honest perspective. Its a weird thing to compliment on sharing your horrible story but it’s an important account that does need to be out there to help others. Thank you

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    • Thank you very much 🙂

      Sharing our stories is an important part of our healing and learning, we’re all in this together and often experience similar paths.

      22 years with a narcissist is a very long time, and usually feels longer because of the hard work involved. Those 7 years being narc-free are a beautiful, gradual release, a return home to self.

      Thank you very much for sharing, and kudos to you too, it takes great strength!

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  2. I am truly surprised by this post, especially that you have found many people seeking information on this subject. I would think that anyone who is dealing with a narcissist, or any other kind of abusive relationship, would want to leave and stop the pattern rather than seek revenge. I realize some people don’t leave because they don’t know how, think they can’t, or simply have not recognized the dysfunction for what it is yet, but once it is seen, why bother with revenge? I think it will just fuel the situation and make it worse. Of course, at this point I’m starting to think that I’m a narcissist, among other things, so what do I know? LOL Just sharing my opinion while hijacking your blog, another narcissistic trait, I guess. This really is an interesting subject though, as is all abuse stuff. It amazes me how strong, yet fragile people can be at the same time. There really is only so much any person can handle before they suffer detrimental effects. I truly appreciate those who get through it without screwing others over in the process though, because reliving my own stories and getting past it is obviously not something I mastered as well as I thought I had yet. Of course, telling my same stories over repeatedly comes across as narcissistic and like I’m trying to throw those who screwed me over under the bus, but that’s not my intention, so I do it anyway. I do somewhat disagree with the statement that people will use your story to hurt you. I think only a true a**hole will use someone’s story for that sole purpose. There are people in existence that will use your story to help either you, or possibly themselves and others. I think that’s why people share their stories, it is a way to release whatever emotions they get out of it, whether positive or negative, and hope that others can take something away from it as well. Like I said though, I don’t know anything about anything so this response is all my personal opinion.

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    • Thank you for sharing 🙂

      So many disclaimers… are you a child of narcs, by any chance 😉 I used to do that whenever I dared say anything, and it got to the point where I never said anything because the disclaimers took up too much verbal space, so I decided to simplify things (stop speaking as though narcs were listening) and just share my perspective and if those hearing it can’t figure out that it is just my perspective (which most people – except narcs – can), then they’re the ones with the perspective problem… which ain’t my problem even if they try to make it mine.

      I do get why people want vengeance on a narcissist. Narcissists tend to inspire that within even the most peaceful and diplomatic person on the planet. A narcissist is like a song set to repeat, only you hate that song, it stabs you in the ears every time you hear it and you don’t know how to make it stop, so you end up making rash decisions because you can’t think straight while that song is stabbing you in the ears. I think it isn’t really so much about vengeance as about being heard, noticed, acknowledged as a human being in their own right – something which narcs don’t do with people. People aren’t people to a narc, they’re things, extensions of themselves and their ego. Which drives people nuts… and once you’ve been driven nuts… revenge is something which pops up as a way to perhaps get through to the narcissist… but it never does, it just eggs them on. And the ear-stabby song keeps playing.

      You’re not a narcissist, and you know it (even when you don’t), so stop that (unless you really enjoy it)… you may have narcissistic traits, but every human has those, it’s natural and often healthy.

      You know what you know, you have great insight into it… time to acknowledge that, maybe 🙂

      Like

  3. Very good post. It reminds me of an old boss who was either a narcissist or a psycopath. I couldn’t stand her behaviour anymore and tried to call her out on it by telling her ‘I can’t handle the way you speak to me, I’m working out of fear rather than motivation’. She turned it around on me and said I was trying to make her feel bad, and that she didn’t realise I was so ‘weak’ when she hired me. I had a strong urge to make her understand how she was ruining lives around her,but I realised that there’s no point because she will never understand.

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    • Thank you 🙂

      Realising that you’re dealing with someone who isn’t listening, has no intention of listening and will never understand (because they don’t want to and/or it probably doesn’t occur to them to do so) is a big step – shows a lot of awareness of others on your behalf. It usually takes ages to get that about narcissists or sociopaths with narcissistic tendencies, as they tend to offer a different persona than the actual one they have – so they give the impression of being open, team players, when actually they are closed for business, and are despots – it’s their way or the highway.

      Accusing you of being ‘weak’ is typical psychological manipulation – you’re supposed to react by doing whatever it is they want from you, which is usually to actually be ‘weak’ by giving up your strength and let them dominate you. They tend to accuse strong people of being weak.

      You can always tell who someone is when you confront them, although this can be a difficult position in which to place yourself if that someone is a boss at work. A person who is not a narcissist or a sociopath will take on board what you say, because the team is important to them, and so is every individual member of the team, a team of which they are a part. Narcissists and sociopaths have a different reaction, they tend to shut people down when confronted, often using very underhand tactics.

      I hope that you found a more satisfying, productive, respectful and motivational work environment (you said this was an old boss… so I’m assuming you left this place or the boss was replaced).

      Best wishes and thank you for sharing!

      Like

  4. Loved reading this! I was hesitant to comment, I think because I find going back in my memory log sometimes backfires on me and causes me to get thinking about it all again. I am officially 1 year NC as of tomorrow. No longer obsessed about it but I still think about it everyday…but I’m OK with that. Anyways, I wanted to comment on your comment that “In the land of a true narcissist, the bad guy is everyone else, they are the hero of their own story and reality. Their reality is the only reality. Anyone who disagrees is a villain.” So right on. I wanted to then share a quote my ex narc friend posted on FB. I have a handful of friends that I have confided in about her-this one in particular is still FB friends with her and she shared a quote that she posted. I don’t like to know this stuff & cringed while reading it but my friend texted it and felt I needed to know, in a way to confirm that I was right in running like hell and getting away from her. It was “Sometimes, the very thing that is making you crazy, is the idea or thought that you are crazy…just will yourself to think you’re normal and you’ll realize it’s everyone else that’s crazy.” These words sum up who she is- I found that fascinating, she laid it out in full sight- and no wonder I was so confused- what she says contradicts itself. She posted this on a day after seeing me. I ignored her once again-no eye contact, nothing. I am not doing this anymore to punish her but a means to protect myself & maintain my sense of integrity. Wanting revenge is about that I think…it’s like saying “hey, you didn’t get away scott-free…you chose the wrong person to mess with.” Ignoring was my revenge.

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    • I’m glad you decided to share 🙂

      I agree that sometimes the past is best left in the past, but occasionally we need to revisit it, if only to witness our progress from there to here.

      You’ve also pointed out something which tends to drive those who are dealing with a narcissist crazy.

      The ability of a narcissist to use things like quotes (often on formats like facebook) to highlight something… often something which they are doing but they can’t see they’re doing it, however they can point out their flaw in others and get all righteously indignant about it… and not realise that what they are doing is underlining their own stuff in a big red marker… is a trait I have learned to appreciate about them. It can be very annoying (how can this person not see the hypocrisy!!?!), but also insightful (they can’t see it because they can’t afford to see it, they have to be blind to it, but we can see it and need to pay attention), and at times humorous once you learn to laugh at it (which takes a while).

      I see it over and over again. It used to make me froth at the mouth and now instead I chuckle… and it confirms what I probably already suspect about them or simply reminds me of what I already know. Sometimes we need to revisit and review to confirm to ourselves that what we’re doing is right for us. Because doubts and a natural softening occur. Sometimes you need to prick yourself on the sharp edge of the past – for your own benefit.

      All humans can be hypocrites, but most humans are aware of this trait. We know that sometimes what we say and what we do… there’s a discrepancy, and we try to work with it, learn, and not be too OTT about it. Narcs on the other hand… They’ll rant about what someone else has done wrong, tear that person apart, condemn them publicly… and a short while later, maybe in the next breath, they will boast about doing the very same crime they just condemned in someone else, only because they’re the ones doing it, it’s heroic and wonderful.

      You asked a while back about a ‘test for narcissists’ – look at what people are pointing out about what is wrong with others, then flip it back onto them. If the shoe fits them better than it does others, then… it may a narc telling you that they’re a narc. If everyone else is crazy according to one person, but they’re sane, and they’re sane because everyone else is crazy…. hmmmm….

      Congratulations on 1yr NC! Hard work, worth it! Keep doing what you’re doing, always trust yourself!

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      • Thanks for your response…my head is going to nod off -I recall you saying that about yourself and I love the visual-makes me laugh. Agree, agree with it all. I think you are so right in needing to “prick yourself,” to remind yourself of the past & how you got from there to here. Important for healing and disengaging from it all in a way- you must recall the old to learn and make a new place.

        In regards to them “ranting about what someone else has done wrong” a story comes to mind. And I know if sounds crazy but I know you’ll understand along with the others that have been touched by a true NPD person. She’d share about friend’s of theirs from out of state (so I didn’t know them). She said that the wife gave the neighbor a blow job. The wife then told her husband. The husband responded by wanting to have the couple over for dinner. And that the husband was possibly interested in the man’s wife. Really? Most husbands would want to kick someone’s ass & not invite him over for dinner. I recall her showing no emotion about it but she was looking for me & my response because she knew I’d condone that BS-I have morals. It was HER…it was possibly her husband…it’s that kind of shit that freaks the shit out of me. Just so you know my ex narc friend was a Sunday school teacher, quoted the bible etc…packed her kids their lunches etc…it was all a fake good mom routine. So good that I took your advice when I went NC a year ago. I wanted to help her husband and kids. And now that I have been away, I have wrapped my arms around various situations and events that I think he wanted me too at the end. But she wouldn’t share me until the last 6 months when she was off cheating with a dude (I can’t prove but have enough evidence) and then he started to move in on me more. It was little stuff but I am putting the chaos together and it is coming full circle. He is in the game too, I think. But I think many spouses that aren’t NPD are so messed that they too play the game just to survive. She wanted him to be distracted with me and she probably fed him lines off shit about me and my marriage. Hence the porn photo she put of a girl on her phone of a girl that looked like me and then she said her husband did it. She did it but he was now involved and playing me too. He told her he was unhappy & divorce was discussed during this time. She needed to distract him-pull him back in-I was the perfect person to do this with. She was going to frame him & ruin me in someway- she knew I wasn’t a lesbian, so having her husband attempt to lure me in was the next best thing. This is better than Jerry Springer but now that I can swallow it all- I think he too was involved. I can handle that now, I couldn’t earlier-it was too much.

        I missed a train wreck…I feel like I did…I was about to be eaten alive at the end and my soul finally woke the fuck up to the biggest shock of my life! Hard work is right but thanks Ursula for knowing what I didn’t & guiding me gently to stay focused & on the right path…You knew more just from what I told you and I am thankful you told me to stay away from the family. Thanks and birthday wishes to you! You were born to be something great and you proved that you can make your own destiny ❤

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        • Sorry but I wanted to add that she always said her one friend’s M.O. from college was giving guys who were already taken blowjobs. I know now it’s her M.O. from various stuff that happened & her preoccupation with blowjobs…anyways…I guess I wouldn’t be very proud of having my M.O. as blow job queen, ha …good shit, narc style.

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          • Narcs often go where others are afraid to go, because the ‘shock’ or ‘taboo’ factor gives them an edge over others… they’re always looking for that edge. The story changes… but it always has an edge designed to shock.

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        • When you’ve been involved with someone who has NPD… takes a long time to piece everything together, sometimes ages because it’s all in pieces, they are fragmented and need us to make them whole. And we do make them whole while they’re with us, we fill in all the blanks and make everything copacetic… until we begin to question things.

          Being from a family ruled over by narcissists, it’s difficult to say – stay away – because of my own personal experience… but then again, I know that staying away, getting out and staying out, is the healthiest thing you can do. Took me a long while to understand that, to understand why certain people turned their backs on me, on my family. Now I get it… and I really get it! A family which is controlled by a narcissist… very unhealthy environment, and there is nothing those on the outside can do for those on the inside – those on the inside have to do it for themselves. When those on the outside try to help… they just get sucked into something very unsavoury.

          The way of a real narcissist is very twisted. There are some very good articles online about their approach to sex (particularly concerning the somatic narcissist types), it’s all about power, control, persona, ego, not about intimacy. Intimacy requires vulnerability, an authentic kind of letting yourself trust another, of letting yourself go. Not something a narcissist ever aims for, but they do talk about it quite a bit, as with many things.

          I’m glad I could offer some help and support, but the credit all goes to you – it’s very important to see that! Trust yourself, see your personal power and strength, your willingness to look and see, understand and do what you needed to do for yourself.

          You’re awesome… now pass it on 🙂

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          • I know it must be difficult for you to say “stay away”…her kids & husband are suffering, but mainly her kids-I know that for a fact. She left our school & switched her kids…and I know she is thinking- “well if I don’t have my friend, then either will any of you”. But she’ll have something else that’s she’s telling everyone else, like the school has a better schedule etc BUT I know her so well and they are being punished, manipulated & ultimately having to work harder to give her compliments & please her. Her husband tries to protect the kids but he has given up & is an addict. It’s a complete mess. I see the husband and kids around- the one in particular I’m most concerned about, as he at the age of 6, told her he wanted to kill himself. He wandered away from home at that age once too. He is quiet & has a hallowness about his eyes- she hurts him the most. I know her intentions and she told me she was a sociopath & pathological liar once & then pulled silent treatment for 3 days after- I was journaling at that point and connected the dots. She knows who she is. So I pray to God and for him to give the husband strength-he is the only way out. I kind of hope he overdoses and then is admitted to a treatment center and gets help and figures it out. I think it will have to take a big event for a change to happen.
            I will stand tall, be awesome 🙂 , and have faith that God has his hand in this and used me in some way to help the family-as I know my leaving has caused pain for them all. Thanks for the credit…I am a persistent son of a bitch and very passionate about the truth. This has tested and taught me a lot. Thanks Ursula…hope her kids turn out like you ❤

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            • Guess it goes to show that healing goes on and on…looking at what I’ve written above has proven that to me. Didn’t mean to go on & on. Anniversaries trigger emotions, it’s my deal. Thanks for listening. I’ll be good 🙂

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              • Anniversaries are a threshold between the past and the present, where the veil between worlds drops and allows us to feel who we were and who we are simultaneously.

                Exploring those moments and even the triggers, helps us to define the path we are now on. The future is built on that which has come before and what we learn from that experience.

                Take time to pay homage to yourself, and let it be as it is, see what it inspires. 🙂

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            • We learn by doing… and the doing teaches us to try things out and learn from what we try.

              There is nothing you can do for her or her family. She’s never going to change, and if you had tried to help her kids more than you did… based on my own experience as a child of a narcissist, the kids would have had to pay for your caring for them. Narcs are monumentally jealous and envious of any kind of attention which isn’t directed at them. Pay attention to their children and they get very insecure and competitive – not the good kind of competitive.

              Hopefully her son will find enough time to himself to figure things out as he grows. Keep his real self safe. It takes time. And hopefully he’ll do what I did, store scraps from positive encounters with others outside of the family in a safe place which the narcissist can’t reach, and those will inspire him.

              As an outsider there really is very little you can do, and what you can do may backfire because the narcissist parent is a control freak. Perfect on the outside – den of iniquity on the inside. No in-between. They look so great on the outside that if you say anything… you’re the one who pays for it.

              Sometimes the best thing you can do is walk away, as painful and heartbreaking as that can be.

              Look after yourself 🙂

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  5. Excellent, excellent post. Bravo! 🙂 My ex-narcissist really ran my life for a while, even after I had divorced him, because I was busy processing. I knew instinctively, however, to keep a low profile, to let him think that he had won. It helped a lot that he was living in a city 6 driving hours away from me and also that I had good friends who saw through him. He did try to intimidate them with threats of taking them to court, but they didn’t respond to his stuff and just waited him out.

    Good, good advice about reversing what the potential narcissist is saying about others.

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    • Thank you 🙂

      I’ve spent more time than I would like to admit to listening to narcissists go on and on about those who have annoyed them in some way. It’s all about them, they never twig that anyone else is an actual person beyond the narc’s version of them. So engaging in a ‘game of life’ with them can go on for ever, they can be very persistent. Once they have a grudge, it never settles.

      You handled your situation impeccably, and so did your friends. You’ve got a good group there 🙂

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  6. That is a very good film, a well-observed slice of human life, experience and personality types. Also a good insight into gender differences. I loved the part where it juxtaposed the girlfriend’s obsession with romance films with Jon’s obsession with porn, which were the same yet with a difference. He was aware of his obsession and its impact on his intimate relationships, he took time to explore it more deeply and eventually began to find a balance. Whereas the girlfriend was completely blinkered and unaware, and that was that. She was never going to change, she thought her view was right, everyone else was wrong unless they adhered to her view, and she expected others to change for her to suit her and her idealistic delusions – classic narcissist.

    I didn’t actually view it as being chauvinistic, there was a lot of sensitivity, thoughtfulness and respect towards both genders. I liked that it highlighted a female bias and took it to task. But then again I prefer ‘masculine’ films to ‘feminine’ ones. Romantic films tend to annoy me and I don’t watch them that often, unless they have Indie credentials or are ‘foreign films’, as they tend to be heavily in favour of what women want and often are critical of what men want.

    Male survivors of narc abuse are often underrepresented online, much of the literature focuses on the female survivor of a narc – which means that it’s either discussing what a male narcissist (husband/boyfriend/ex) did, or what a narcissistic parent did, more often a narc mother. However there are a few men writing about their experiences, adjusting the balance.

    This is an excellent example of that – http://www.arachnoid.com/psychology/narcissism_revisited.html

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    • I thought it was extremely funny how he would curse at all the traffic on his way to church, and go to confession every week after his sexual escapades and conquests. I was raised Catholic and this is true Catholicism at it’s finest! I also believe there is really no difference between the modus operandi between the male and female narc. The results are all the same. Maybe even more so damaging for a male victim. Society doesn’t allow men to be victims. And good luck trying to explain any of this or the abuse suffered. Thanks for the movie recommendations. Any more you found interesting?

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      • The narcissist as a film and TV trope and character as a plot device is common. Some films and TV really capture it, capture the experience of it. Others may just use it to frame the main characters without any understanding other than the superficial, which sometimes is all that is needed.

        TV series is –

        Web Therapy with Lisa Kudrow. You can watch episodes online.
        Enlightened with Laura Dern

        Both of those have a narcissist female as the lead and are insightful.

        As for films, off the top of my head (which is slightly blank at the moment) –

        Killing Bono (2011) – the main character is a narcissist, but one of those ones who often slips by unnoticed because of the charm and falling on his feet at the end in a way which makes for a happy ending, so everything is forgiven and forgotten.
        Charlie Casanova (2011) – about a sociopath, an ordinary one who goes too far with his mind games
        Hansel and Gretel (2007 – Korean film) – this is one struck me as a metaphorical insight into living with someone with NPD

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        • Thanks for the recommendations. All I do is watch films and documentaries now to escape the prison of my mind after my experience with a narc. I see narcissism everywhere now, because I had no fuking clue about it prior. This is partly what seems to be so insidious about it for the unfortunate victims. If you haven’t seen it already, I recommend Horns (2014). Kinda gets cheesy at the end, but I believe it captures quite a bit about afflicted narcissism. I truly believe you’ll relate to the parents in the film. I believe we’re all narcs to a certain degree. It’s to the level actions are taken, and lack compassion or conscience. I also highly recommend Child of God (2014). It’s really twisted, and remains that way throughout where most films fallout. I think it will satisfy your ‘distorted’ sense of humour! 😛 Stay thirsty my friend!

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          • Thank you for the recommendations too. I watch loads of film and TV. I haven’t seen those, I’ll check them out 🙂

            You might find this blog – https://thenarcissistsson.wordpress.com/ – interesting. He writes about his NPD parent, but also about his relationship with a romantic partner who was also a narcissist. He’s very sensitive and insightful. I had a few online blog-chats with him (I may have scared him, not sure about that – children of narcissists can weird each other out).

            All humans are narcissistic, narcissism is a natural phase of development, it’s normal and it is healthy for us… until it tips into the unhealthy version like any natural trait. This is partly why people find narcissist attractive and relatable – they’re at an extreme end of the expression of a healthy and normal human trait, and when we experience them from a detached perspective they simplify somethign complicated for us and make it seem very understandable. They can be inspiring… as long as we don’t get to know them better and get involved in a personal relationship with them.

            All narcissists are attractive from the outside, on the inside it’s very different. This difference is what causes the most damage. It’s like a really delicious looking cake which tastes awful. Delicious as long as all you do is eat it with your eyes, just don’t put a piece of it in your mouth and try to digest it.

            All survivors/victims of narcissist when they first become aware of NPD and start exploring it end up seeing narcissists everywhere in everyone and everything. That’s normal, don’t worry about that, it’s how awareness works. It’ll balance itself out over time, as you progress through the stages of healing from your experience. It’s more traumatic at the beginning, suddenly the world is upside down and backwards and the mind has to adjust – and doesn’t always want to.

            The stages of healing from a relationship with a narcissist in some ways echo the stages of grief – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%BCbler-Ross_model

            Give yourself plenty of space and time to work through your experience. Don’t pressure yourself, be gentle with yourself.

            This is quite a good post – https://afternarcissisticabuse.wordpress.com/2014/06/08/how-the-trauma-of-narcissistic-abuse-changes-our-world-views/ – on how a relationship with someone with NPD affects those who are unfamiliar with narcissists, who did not grow up with a narcissist parent (although the author of this post later claimed to be a child of narcissists – which is a bit confusing because this post does not reflect that at all, but that’s life, some things may be deeply hidden until they get stirred up and expose themselves).

            Whether someone grew up with narcissists or suddenly had one enter their life and wreck it… ultimately it is about how the experience affects us personally and what we do with how it has affected us. Learn from it, let yourself evolve and flow with it. It happened for a reason, find a reason and make it work for you rather than against you (unless that’s your reason).

            Narcissism is everywhere and in everyone – but it’s not all bad. You’ll emerge from the confusion with a greater awareness of yourself, and of your relationship with your self.

            Sometimes having a distorted perspective brings life into focus more clearly 😉

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        • Watched, Killing Bono. Didn’t find it narcissistic per day, but more about a dumbass who is lost in his pride and envy as most of us can do. I found it more comical than looming.However, you know far more first hand than I. Please give a review of Child of God (really has nothing to do with God). I’d love to know what you think. It was quite the creeper mind bender for me. I’d love to hear your perspective. Stay thirsty my friend!

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          • Killing Bono is not a good example of someone with NPD, at least not as an obvious example of it. I watched it because it sounded intriguing as a concept, I wasn’t looking for NPD or narcissism at all, and as I watched it I recognised aspects of my experience with my parents and others with NPD. The subtler sides of it. The main character was very narcissistic, but in a way which often goes unnoticed. People mostly only notice narcissists when they’re no longer benefiting from them, when there is no chance of a happy ending for them, when the illusion falls apart and nothing they do can keep it together. That’s when people become aware of it and those who have NPD, are narcissists. But there is a time before awareness… a time when the narcissist was the miss or mr right, the ideal man or woman, the one who promised a grand adventure, a fulfillment of fantasy, a drama to enjoy being a part of… that’s what hooks people, how they get sucked into the narcissist’s world. It can end happily and no one ever knows… what they know when it ends unhappily.

            I will let you know what I think of Child of God when I get around to seeing it, may take a while – I’m not always the decider of what gets watched, it’s a shared experience 🙂

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          • So I watched Child of God. It was very much in keeping with Cormac McCarthy’s work which is often bleak, visceral, slightly surreal, about nature, human and that of the wilderness. It’s the sort of film you just have to watch, experience, and not think. I liked the ending, the part where he crawls through a long dark dank tunnel doing a lot of grunting and shouting, then claws his way out of the earth, kind of like giving birth to himself, and runs off into the wild. Reminded me of the style of film of the 70’s.

            So why was it a ‘creeper mind bender’ for you? What was it about it? Did you like it for being that way or something else?

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            • Watching Kumare. Prolly not the best film to watch after an experience with a narc because of the gaslighting and brainwashing experiences but it was interesting none the less. The power of the mind is very interesting. I viewed it as the placebo effect, but strongly making it’s point. I could go on so much about this but it would truly be never ending as with all aspects of spirituality seem to be. Glad you had a chance to view Child of God. I thought you would get a kick out of it. I found it wicked creepy but entertaining. I like movies that aren’t so mainstream themed. It carried out same storyline and theme throughout where most films don’t especially ones this odd. I liked it because he was a wicked sick fecker and there was no point at the end which was the point I think. Just was/is, like a narc. Sometimes that’s all we have to go on in life. Have a gander at Horns when you get a chance. No need for review, but the parents are overt and convert narcs that made me think of you. Also has lots more narcissism from ther characters in a humorous way I think you might laugh at. Stay thirsty my friend!

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              • I’m a film and TV freakazoid, meaning I love film and TV, and will watch just about anything at least once, maybe not all the way through! I could bore you to death discussing it and recommending stuff 😉

                Another ‘documentary’ which you shouldn’t probably watch or see like Kumare – Catfish (2010) – http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1584016/ – it does capture the reason why narc’s do what they do, and shows how it’s about them and not about you – they never even considered you, never will consider you, they were and still are too caught up in themselves. Very sensitively done. The series is excellent… but you need to remain detached.

                If you enjoyed the ‘creeper mind bender’ style of Child of God, and the fact that it didn’t feel the need to tack on an ‘audience appropriate’ ending to appeal to what the media companies consider the ‘mainstream box office public’ (money – a la Swingers version of ‘money’) – which is an issue a lot of film makers have, that sometimes ends up ruining a really good film just to get the rating and promotion of the film. Then I recommend exploring ‘foreign’ films, if you haven’t already. Asian film in particular. Scandinavian film is also excellent (and their TV shows are… weird but brilliant). As well as ‘Eastern European’ film. There are some really awesome stories, which bend the mind, creep you out in a fascinating way, and have no real ending – it’s just a life goes on or figure it out for yourself end without end.

                If you want to know a bit more about the sort of TV and film that I watch and like, check out my Pinterest board – https://www.pinterest.com/perfidia/fillum/ – I’ve left loads of stuff out, I keep meaning to update it, but it’s just a Pinterest board.

                What’s your all time favourite top 10 film and/or TV?

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                • I love the way you write Ursula. It flows so eloquently with honesty, intelligence and true emotion. You definitely have a talent for this. Was watching Bukowski last night, but couldn’t get through it. I’ll try again when not so tired. I highly recommend this one for you as well. He’s so blunt, honest, guttural, just off being right on. You can’t help gasp and want more. Saw Catfish awhile back. It was truly sick, but I realize now how sick it really was. However, I think the guys knew she was a fraud so whatever. This kinda makes it even more sick and twisted. I used to watch foreign films, but I’m not into reading them so much anymore. Just too lazy I guess. I would much rather read a book or you blogs instead. 😉 There are many opportunities and outlets for ‘independent’ film makers here, but you have to look for the films.

                  I guess my favourite film of all times would be The Matrix. I’ve seen it so many times I could throw up, but watch it time to time again. Kind of a cliche movie to pick as a fav I guess, but it came at an important time in my life. I was tired of feeling crazy around all the superficial seemingly asleep ‘sheeple.’ The movie opened my horizons to, Yea, people do think like and are as crazy as me! I don’t think machines are going to take over the ‘whirled’ per say, although it’s possible eventually with newest AI technologies being created. Maybe “the beast’ the Bible speaks of is a machine, AI, or clone? I now kinda see this technology like narcs. A hybrid so to speak, lacking feeling or emotion and only relaying, responding and portraying. These were my crazy thoughts many years ago to where I felt very alone, and couldn’t find anyone I could relate them with. The Matrix also entwines a new ‘religious’ aspect if you watch closely. Karma, Buddhism, Daoism, Christianity are all spun in there where most missed. I found this intriguing as well. Sorry about the jibber jabber. Now your turn, what’s your favourite film of all time and why?

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                  • Thank you 🙂

                    I’ve seen the documentary – Bukowski: Born into This – and absolutely loved it! I haven’t seen the James Franco biopic of Bukowski. Magic Trip (2011) about Ken Kesey’s bus adventure with a bunch of his mates is very intriguing (this one is worth watching when you’re tired as it’s ‘trippy’). Searching for Sugar Man (2012) is great, it’s the tale of a rather unusual man and the people he inspired without knowing it.

                    One of the things I like about foreign film is that I can’t understand what they’re saying with my ears, I tend not to read most of the subtitles, so I have to understand it in other ways and I get more immersed in the film, the story, the visuals, the sounds, the body language of the actors, etc. It can be very relaxing as it stimulates other parts of the brain. There’s a French film – Home (2008) – which requires very little subtitle reading (mind you, I understand French) and is stunning.

                    There are some great English language Indies. I love Mumblecore. One of my fav Indies is Old Joy (2006). The Puffy Chair (2005) is fun. Eagle vs Shark (2007) is brilliant. Sightseers (2012) is creeper mind bender Brit style. The Loved Ones (2009) is creeper mind bender Aussie style. Australian films are awesome for quirky weird. The Castle (1997) is superb. Recently I watched In Your Eyes (2014) it’s sort of romantic but with an interesting spin.

                    The Matrix is a superb film, it does combine a lot of symbolism, concepts and philosophies which the mind loves and taps into that part of the human experience which feels surreal. I loved it.

                    Usually I go with Face/Off as my fav film, however the reasons for that are mostly superficial. It’s high octane eye candy entertainment with a great sense of humour and amusing plot. I love the John Woo touch. High Plains Drifter has been my all time fav for much longer as I saw it when I was a kid and it’s one of those which connects with a piece of your psyche.

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                • Sorry to take up your whole blog. is there another forum you would rather me post about movies? I enjoy sharing the experience with you as well. We’re kinda on the same page with film interests. I can’t seem to get into most new films put out, so I find it interesting watching some of your favs. I don’t fear telling you I ‘hate’ a film you picked. That’s part of the experience! 🙂 I usually tell it how it is. It’s gotten me in trouble quite a bit, so I needed to choose more wisely who I share with. I really did enjoy Old Joy. It was a sleepy odd thriller. I saw Old Boy on your list, but didn’t have a clue is was a remake! I’ll have to watch. I’m not so much into seafaring adventures, but Robert Redford did an excellent job with, All is Lost. It was realistically surreal. I believe he is one of our best living artists. I take it you’re from the UK?

                  On another note. I’m having a slow and extremely difficult time to say the least, healing after my experience with a narc. It’s been almost 60 days of no contact, and she has recently attacked me by proxy. This set me back quite a bit. I am trying to put together an edited version of events to get your perspective. Please share any ideas or advice for healing? I find your lifetime experience and knowledge of narcissism very helpful, and thank you for it!

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                  • No worries, really no worries 🙂

                    Thank you for being so considerate. Please feel free to keep doing things as you’re doing them, post wherever. All the comments show up on a central hub for me, and I don’t tend to think about whether they’re necessarily about the post they appear on (unless someone annoys me, then I get snippy and pedantic 😉 ) as everything is connected in life and tangents are very intriguing to explore.

                    If you’d prefer to post about movies on a film related post, this is the most recent one – it’s a very silly post – https://anupturnedsoul.wordpress.com/2014/12/15/inside-the-box-films-and-tv-shows-review-me/

                    Yes, I live in the UK, which I absolutely love! Awesome country, have you ever been?

                    re: going No Contact with a narcissist is essential for you, but don’t expect the narcissist to respect it, get it, or anything else. In fact going NC can have the opposite of the desired effect on a narcissist, rather than keeping them out of your life it draws them in because they can’t stand silence, being ignored, not knowing what you’re up to, being in control, and many other NPD related issues.

                    The ‘attack by proxy’ is common, covert narcissists in particular don’t like confrontation and often use others to do their ‘dirty’ work, and it is usually very awkward for you and for the proxy. They will often choose someone who is the caring-meddling-fixing sort, who doesn’t know the real story, who may relate to what they’re told from a personal angle (narcs are good at tapping into people’s soft spots) and will fill their head with a big drama where the narcissist is the ‘damsel in distress’ who needs saving and then send the proxy off on an ‘heroic’ quest.

                    The best way to handle it is to recognise what is going on (as you have) – the narc is trying to regain control of a situation in which they have lost control – and detach from the scenario. It’s none of the proxy’s business and the proxy is out of their depth. Don’t take things out on the proxy, they’re a pawn and have been wound up by the narc.

                    The objective of using a proxy to attack you may simply to be to get you to break your No Contact. Remember narcs rely on others for their identity and part of that comes from you caring about them – any emotional reaction you have = you care for them, they’re important, their identity is safe and intact. It’s not about you, it’s about them. Stick with your NC, that’s how you create a healing space for yourself. Ignore the proxy attacks, ignore the narc. Easier said than done, but worth it.

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              • Watched Maindenvoyage. A documentary about a young girl coming to age I think she lost her virginity along the way in many ways along the way, but a still watch. I think you would be able to relate to this firlm.

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                • Did you mean Maidentrip (2013)?

                  I don’t usually watch ‘coming of age’ films and documentaries unless they are about the coming of the age that I will be or about the age I already am.

                  There’s a very interesting documentary series which follows the lives of a group of children in 7 year installments. Seven Up! (1964) was the first installment, the latest one was – 56 Up (2012).

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                  • Yea, Maidentrip. I had a few too many cocktails. Sorry. I think she had her cherry popped along the way in many ways, and not trying to be rude. I honestly didn’t see where the disconnect from her father was, but I was awed by her sheer determination. Saw selected films on your pinterest website. Faceoff was spectacular! It was a great storyline with just good thrills, fun and action.There was numerous and too many others to list that I enjoyed very much as well. I’ll give update and review on some you listed as favs as well. I love films as well. It takes me out of my head trips into someone else’s for a moment. Stay thirsty my friend!

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                  • Watched Old Joy.I thought was a boring and mundane film about a covet sociopath narcissist with homo-erotic desires raping an unsuspecting victim. I think I can understand why you chose to add it as a fav. i saw a person lost and confused in his own disorder. There was no closure in the film which I believe was the point. Just a roaming mad man searching for his soul through the next adventure. Thanks for sharing!

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                    • Some films capture what it is to be human and that’s why I like them. They ditch the usual glamour, the need to entertain, to cut out the boring bits, to give closure, and just show it like it is.

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                  • Watched Old boy with Josh Brolin again. It’s kind of how I feel after being with a narc. She recommended it, so I much more I understand more why so now. Creepy in a mainstream sort of way. Even more so creepy watching it again. It’s a sick twisted tale of mystery combined with action, torture. paranoia with gasighting, brainwashing, control, conditioning, resilience and good ol’ sweet revenge. I recommend this one for you as well.

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                    • Old Boy is one of my fav films, the original version directed by Chan-wook Park (and part of the vengeance trilogy) not the Spike Lee remake, I only got 5 mins into the remake before I decided I didn’t care for it or what happened to anyone in it. It lacked the intense and silent poetry of Chan-wook Park’s work. James Brolin is a good actor but he just wasn’t Min-sik Choi who was breathtaking and compelling in the main role. South Korean cinema is stunning, it’s a very sensory experience for the viewer.

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                  • Please don’t get me wrong, I enjoyed Old Joy. I’m going to continue watching movies on your Pinterest blog while detoxing for the toxins and slowly going through this healing process. The love film as well, and grateful for the distraction from the constant hauntings in my mind after being with a narc. I’m also very grateful that you are helping me along with this process as well. 🙂 Love and Light.

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                    • Watching films is all about you in the moment, what you get out of it or don’t get out of it, and so on. It’s always a personal journey, personal taste. It’s one of the reasons people love film and love to discuss films with others – you can learn a lot about others through discussing films.

                      Me and some mates had a film related contest a while back. It was great fun! I lost hands down because I chose an obscure bunch of films from the period when I was into oldies from the 30’s. The guy who won chose the most recent decade and very popular films. The conversations we had while running the contest were insightful and we all discovered films we hadn’t seen.

                      Recommending films is an experience in sharing and opening ourselves up to new worlds of vision and sometimes just pure entertainment and escape. Who knows what we’ll find!

                      Don’t worry if you hate the films I love, that’s fine, that’s life and being human. I’m not going have a tantrum about it or like you any less for it 😉 I rarely if ever watch a film more than once, so I have no idea if I would still like now a film I liked a while back.

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                • I try to be respectful and kind to others so please don’t hesitate to let me know if I annoy you. I won’t personalize and I would much rather know than not know. 🙂 I’ll check out the other blog site and share reviews about other films you’ve chosen. It gets me out of my head for a hot minute. Never been to the UK but would love to go. Unfortunately I am financially devastated mostly due to the ex narc, the financial crisis, and poor choices. I’d really like to share my plans with you, but the ex narc is stalking me online. I’m changing my username just to be safe. She knows I know, and I’ve read they will even come to these forums claiming to be victims and believing they are! My IP address won’t change, but just wanted to give you a heads up.

                  The smear campaign started long ago, so at least I’m aware of that aspect. I read they may infiltrate my personal arenas so I need to be prepared for that. The abuse by proxy are not people at this point, but forums that I’m also unable to share. It’s more about revenge and the fear of exposure. It’s sickening how these people never give up! I don’t know what else to call them besides pure evil. Of course she is claiming to be the victim. I’m sure this is how she’s latched onto new supply sources. My hope is that she just spins herself out and moves onto other sources. She’s discarded me, so this is my best opportunity. There will be no apology this time so she’ll try to hook me in by other ways that I’ve shared with you. I’m really struggling with this healing process. Is there any other tips, ideas or advice you could share with me? I’m sure you’ve helped thousands recovering from the aftermath of dealing with a narc. I sincerely hope you’re proud of this wonderful service given to those suffering.

                  Love and Light.

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                  • Have you read this article – http://www.arachnoid.com/psychology/narcissism_revisited.html – it’s one of the best I’ve read on the subject and I think you might find it helpful in dealing with your situation.

                    The thing about healing from a relationship with a narcissist is that it takes time, there is no magic pill to cure it instantly, to make things immediately better, to turn back time – and if you could turn back time, you would become the person who was attracted to a narcissist – so the whole rigmarole might begin again. You can never go back to the way that you were before the narcissist, and perhaps that is for the best, you have to evolve, move forward, discover yourself anew.

                    Chances are that the narcissist in your life tapped into things within your psyche which need to be explored and understood, brought to light and awareness. Things which aren’t about the narcissist at all, but which are about you and may explain things. That’s what makes being in a relationship with a narcissist so painful – they stir up our personal wounds, ones which we’ve hidden from ourselves. They use our wounds to get under our skin – they don’t necessarily do this consciously, a lot of it is fluke which they then use to their advantage.

                    That’s why many people find going to a therapist or joining a support group helpful. Figure yourself out and you’ll figure out the relationship with the narcissist in a way that is more beneficial to you.

                    Online support groups are quite good, however if they’re NPD ones, there may be a few narcissists who are members – they often view themselves as victims of narcissists (which may be true as narcs gravitate to other narcs, the inverted ones tend to only seek out other narcs). CZBZ of – http://n-continuum.blogspot.co.uk/ – has written quite a bit about her own forum experiences with narcs claiming to be victims of narcs.

                    The most vital thing to do is to nurture and nourish yourself at this time, focus on yourself and what you need, be gentle with yourself, trust yourself, and give yourself time, plenty of time, to heal step by step. Don’t pressure yourself.

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                  • Hi Ursula,

                    I’ve read that first article along the way. I liked that it was very personally and simply stated. I’ll have to check out the other. It’s amazing how many websites are out there. It seems malignant narcissism is increasing and spreading, but the medical field doesn’t have any real effin clue! I can’t find any therapists who treat or even knowledgeable about NPD or NAS. However, I’ve read new studies that narcissists are on the autism spectrum; lack of empathy, but don’t use people like narcs. What do you think? Narcs generally aren’t murderers, but they definitely kill the person you once were. It’s really difficult accepting all the lies are true, and the truth was all lies. It makes the ‘rebirth’ process definitely more slow and arduous. And she is still after my utter destruction! Thank you for the tips, encouragement for courage and knowledge, and sharing your experience. I wish you wonders!

                    Love and Light.

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  7. That is an incredible read. Thank you. My life was a happy one. I was raised by loving parents, we were middle class yet we didn’t do without. My Mum and her Mum and Dad taught me kindness, unconditional love, manners, discipline, decency, compassion, forgiveness, to be curious and to be honest when striving to be ones best in all areas of life. It was essentially a great upbringing. I was lucky to fall into my dream role within the commercial aviation industry whilst still plodding along with a sporting goal. Dynamics shifted when a company collapsed however I ratcheted up the sporting goal and made it. I was about to turn 40 and had achieved a sporting goal and an opportunity to return to aviation presented. Not long after I began the new role I ended up in a relationship (now ended) with a person that essentially destroyed much of my life, my career, reputation, health and self belief. I have been through significant therapy and have learnt a lot about what that person saw in me and what they could leverage off. I don’t even know what the diagnosis would be for the person yet my therapist suggested “A malignant narcissist”. That person still lives inside my head despite cognitive therapy and living a healthy life. I look back an wonder where I would be today if I had not met that person. Seems fruitless yet I do. I have no contact, nor have I seen the person for 4 years yet the memories of pure evil are there and the outfall has not been pleasant at all. I used to be so trusting yet after the experience I’m not sure about trust anymore. The super positive point here though is that I can now spot a MN a mile off. I have learnt boundaries and am still healing. A few steps forward and a few back. In conclusion I still see myself in a state of disbelief that it actually happened and that I thank God I came through it somehow.

    Thanks for reading.

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    • Thank you very much for sharing 🙂

      I grew up with narcissists, so I can relate to having them stuck inside your head slowly poisoning you with their worldview. To get them out of your head and back where they belong, outside of you, requires getting to know yourself, your self, very intimately. Which takes time, effort, patience, and gentleness towards yourself.

      Since I’ve always had narcissists in my life, I don’t actually know from experience what it is like to live without them and then suddenly have one come into your life and cause chaos. I am however familiar with the kind of chaos they create, personally from what they did with me repeatedly, from what they did to themselves, and through observing them cause havoc in other people’s lives, and listening to other people’s stories. They never really see themselves as agents of chaos, so they never get the extent of the effect they have on others. They feed off the drama, and can create drama out of nothing. If you’re not used to that, it can be like being hit by a powerful wave, be submerged, get sucked under, caught in a riptide.

      It tends to be a harder hit if you’ve had a happy childhood, loving parents, and a great life, when a narcissist strikes you personally as you’re completely unprepared for their kind of person, behaviour and effect upon you. It is not dissimilar to being kidnapped and dropped into an alien land, which speaks an alien language, and has completely alien customs – it’s the ultimate culture shock, more so because you have been hit where you feel safe. Everything which was once safe becomes unsafe – and that can be very alienating.

      This is a good post about that experience – https://afternarcissisticabuse.wordpress.com/2014/06/08/how-the-trauma-of-narcissistic-abuse-changes-our-world-views/

      This is the best post I have ever read about narcissists – http://www.energeticsinstitute.com.au/page/narcissism.html

      Where would you be if you hadn’t met this person?

      I have often wondered who I would be if my parents hadn’t been narcissists.

      That kind of fantasy happens, and is part of the process of making sense of things which don’t make sense. It isn’t as fruitless as it may seem, and our imaginings can help us get back on track. It’s our psyche’s way of sorting the wheat from the chaff.

      You can’t go back, but sometimes going back over things in the mind can help you to move forward – so, steps forward and backwards is a healthy way to go. If you could go back, rewind, erase, change things… you might still end up meeting a narcissist, maybe not that particular one but another one, because sometimes what happens does so because it is meant to for us.

      Having a relationship with a narcissist exposes us to unresolved issues within us. They have an uncanny ability to tap into those issues and bring them out into the open. Through all the pain, the chaos, something else emerges. This kind of experience is how we discover who we really are, what we’re really made of. You’ve always known you were strong, but now you know how deep that strength goes. In spite of everything, you’ve survived and gradually learning how to thrive again. Plus you now know about narcissists and can identify them – that’s quite an ability to have gained.

      The blood, sweat and tears… are worth it. They have to be, and we make them worth it.

      Keep doing what you are doing, trust yourself, and take good care of yourself!

      Liked by 1 person

      • Wow…you have taken the time to be so kind. You absolutely know so much more about me than I have even written. You know the narcissist and what they can do, potentially are and essentially what happens.

        I simply cannot thank you enough…

        x

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        • We’re all ‘experts’ once we’re exposed to it. It comes with the experience. The hardest lessons are of value because they hurt so much – that kind of pain, if we work with it can be whatever we make of it. Trust yourself and focus on yourself and what you need to recover. It will take time, give yourself that time. Be gentle with yourself, respect yourself. You’ll be fine as long as you take good care of yourself.

          Best wishes!

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  8. I am currently in a very difficult and very stressful relationship with a man that plots revenge on me everyday.it can be a lovely day yet somehow he can flip out of nowhere like a coin and leave me baffled.i have been slandered e.g .him calling me hurtful derogatory names infront of the kids so they know what he feels towards me, I get called an “Ugly Fat B******” nearly 10x in a day to how pathetic I am and how useless I am as a wife. .all this just cos I told him he is neglecting his duties to me and our kids..he purposely will leave the house hours on end cos he knows it upsets me and upsets our underage kids who have pined for his affection and he has blatantly admitted he doesn’t care if it causes them pain as long it makes me upset seeing their pain..I have lost all my friends, no family members want to come to our home as he has made them aware of his hatred towards them..I have no job, no money, no social life..I’m at home always in pain due to my Arthritis which flares up when im under immense stress . majority of the time im always nervous as he threatens me with threats of cheating and telling me he’ll marry again as I am mental.. (yes!..he calls me the loopy one)..What’s really strange that other people find me to be attractive and I’m not a skinny but neither overweight enough for him to call me fat b****** all the time..he insults my most private and sensitive areas of my body and will gp into details of how ugly and deformed I seem..the ugly truth is..I now have started to hate my looks and have started to wonder maybe he is right all along. many people who we both know have approached me and have asked how did he get so lucky having me and when they tell him he has a very beautiful wife..he gets very very jealous and starts telling them its all fake and don’t they find him to be the better looking one..the other painful truth is…he is not attractive in any way..he has many flaws and always claims he can attract anyone..but when his own friends and family members tell me he is lucky tp get someone like me that sparks some jealousy in him..I pretend to be very confident when he puts me down everyday as I don’t want to give him the satisfaction he so thrives off..he only lives to see me hurt and down with no confidence at all..I guess you could say he has achieved all these things .my kids ask me why their Father doesn’t want to spend time with them..I have to lie at times and say he is busy..but when they ask hom he says it’s because he doesn’t want to see my ugly fat face…the kids can’t understand why he is so cruel and have said they don’t like him.i am so sadand feel helpless that tthey’ve been subjectedpto his abuse.he lacks empathy and remorse. Nothing I or my kids do can make him love us.he never shows care or support when the kids are unwell..infact, he always chooses to leave the house when any of the kids arw poorly. .the kids during their illnesses have cried for him and even when I’ve called him to home as the kids need him..he has said clearly..he doesn’t care..too busy smoking weed and being arpund his mates . Another bad trait he has is his arrogance which everyone including myself find its so fake and overly exaggerated to fool others..he has no job either yet will spend our living allowance on drugs and gambling. .and infront of people he will put me down by saying I should work.if o tell him to watch his language infront of the children he gets even more abusive and then starts slandering my whole family members..I am now truly low and feel debilitated by his everyday abuse..I have no job as my confidence has reached rock bottom and no money or anything to my name to help me be strpng enough to let him go..but why is it hard for me to detach myself from him??..I hate who I have become..I use to tell others to be strpng and not put up with their partners abuse..yet here I am living through it for nearly 10years now.he’s made me become addicted to him and its like he’s put some kind of wicked spell on me..o can’t stop wanting him even after the evil things I’ve endured by him..and he knows I can’t let him go..I just hope I lnew of a miracle that would rip him out of my heart and system for good.

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    • Hi all.Im just giving an update on my current situation from the last time i posted. my Narcissist ex was driving me insane and mde me feel below low level..now the current situation is he has walked out .now been 5mths since our separation although we kept contact due to kids just these past few weeks he did the most degrading and hurtful thing,he took my kids to his ex wife’s home and who by the way is extremely overweight (and to think he called me ugly and Fat Bas**** everyday just really does not make sense why he would go and want someone he divorced in first place cos he didnt find her attractive and said he couldn’t love her nor find her attractive??..things got really bad as his daily threats got alot worse and he started to cause me even more stress and anxiety.He would smack the kids if they told him to not use bad language.If i asked him to come and take kids to school he’d start verbally abusing me calling me sh** mum,ugly F*** face..Lard Arse,Mother f*****..daughter of a w***..and the classic..”I pray regularly for your death”..this could be over just something normal.He started to chat to mutiple females online..would take their numbers and hide them in his car along with his cannabis.He then would turn and say,,”you cant be a good wife and i want a submissive wife..one who kisses my feet and obeys my every rule”. .like an idiot i would say i can change but just let me prove it..he then straight away wpuld say i couldn’t be that good wife and he cant see me changing..But then i asked myself what am i to change??..i am respectful,loving,caring,loving and kind person who never spent her husbands money nor ever betrayed him?..so what did he want me to change??..oh yeh!!..i know!..he want3d me to remain dead..be muted even when i saw or heard of his antics.he wpuld perv on women’s behinds and id ask why he did it??..he’d get so angry and say he is gona do it more and he actually would just perv to hurt me and would make me watch..cos he knew i couldn’t do anthing..he knew i was weak..he is alot stronger than me so i couldn’t even defend myself. He’d always be online and very secretive about his phone and never leave his phone lying around.would take his phone wherever he went.The only time he’d say he was crazy about me was when we had sex which was once a month if he wasnt gone from home.If anyone paid me a compliment whether it be a female or realtive and friend’s . he’d instantly start degrading me to hirt me.I use to tell him he is insecure whoch is why he displays his insecurities upon me.Not once in 9yrs has he apologisedhe said he doesn’t feel any empathy towards me and if anything he loves watching my pain.in bed he’d show so much affection.be all over me like a rash..and take time out to make love yet as soon as it was over..he’d turn cold and evil again.He said he just can’t stick my ugly f***face and wishes i was dead.i knew he had issues and he needed help..i suggested to him on many occasions when he was in a calm and good mood that he could get some professional help.mperhaps speak to someone who could help him understand why he is behaving this way. But hed turn rpund and say its me thats crazy and who need to be locked away in a mental home.Everyday he plotted revenge and would say i should watch this space as he will show me.the other thing he says alot is…”You will have to kill me for me to lose…and even then i win”..he has!..cos he knows who i am and what triggers my fears. .Im still struggling to move on as i am codependent and am having wittdrawal symptoms like a drug addict does when going in to rehab…he became my drug..i just wosh i can move on and find some sort of peace.

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      • Thank you for sharing an update 🙂

        Glad to hear that you’ve managed to safely separate from him.

        He will probably always be the way that he is because he doesn’t think there’s anything wrong with him, he thinks everyone else is the problem. Once someone sees things that way, they tend to stick with it.

        The important thing is to focus on yourself, get therapy for yourself (often needed after living with a narcissist, and useful for dealing with them in the future), and gradually work towards finding a healthier and happier place for yourself. It’s going to take time, so be patient and gentle with yourself, give yourself time to heal.

        Best wishes on your continued journey forward!

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  9. I would like to also add..my Narcissist husband cheated on me while I was going through the most traumatic time watching my mother on coma for 2mths while I was at the hospital he was engaging in a fling with someone on FB..then said its cos I said I would cheat on him and he did it to get back at me.i curse him everyday yet still waiting fpr justice..seems ill be waiting a while.

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    • Thank you for sharing 🙂

      Have you visited Kim Saeed’s blog – Let Me Reach (http://letmereach.com/) – she writes a lot about how to break free from a romantic (partner/spouse/lover) relationship with a narcissist. She has been married to a narcissist, and knows the difficulties of being in that kind of relationship and how hard it is to leave. She recently wrote a post which you might find to be of relevance to your situation – http://letmereach.com/2015/05/18/breaking-your-addiction-to-the-narcissist-the-betty-ford-approach-2/

      As you have wisely pointed out, it is easier to tell others what to do when they’re the ones in an abusive relationship, than it is to take your own advice when you’re the one in the abusive relationship. Things are always more complicated inside of the relationship than they are to those outside of the relationship.

      Even people who have personal resources separate from their abusive partner – a job, money, supportive family and friends, a therapist, etc – find it difficult to leave an abusive relationship. Having those things may seem like they make leaving easier, and sometimes they do, but ultimately it comes down to you. The way to get out of an abusive relationship begins on the inside, and that is often the hardest step to take. There are many ties which bind, many of which we’re not conscious of. Making them conscious and then severing the ties can be difficult and painful.

      There is no miracle cure or solution for what you are going through. No hero to save the day. You are the only one who can really help yourself, you are your own hero, although there are support systems available if you need help. If you feel ready to leave but don’t know how to do it, if you don’t want to leave but want some support, would like practical advice, to talk with those who can understand your situation, I suggest checking your local abuse support networks and domestic abuse helplines. Such as this one – http://www.behind-closed-doors.org.uk/

      There is nothing you can do to change him, how he behaves towards you is not your fault. It is about him, not you, but he is blaming you for his problems, thus making it your problem. He has a problem and he is taking it out on you and your children. Unless he decides to become aware of himself, be responsible for what is making him behave this way, which sounds doubtful from what you’ve shared, he is going to keep doing what he is doing, and he will keep taking out his issues on you and your kids. This is not your fault.

      Don’t blame yourself for his issues, and don’t be hard on yourself for putting up with his abuse and still caring for him. Relationships are very complicated. People are complicated. Situations can be very complex.

      If you can, find a local support group who understands what you are going through and can help you to figure things out. It will take time. Be gentle with yourself. You have been through a lot, over a long period of time.

      Take care of yourself.

      Like

    • Hi, thank you for sharing 🙂

      Yes, of course males are allowed to post here! Many do.

      I can see where you perhaps got the impression that it may be a ‘females only’ issue, as females tend to be more open online about their experiences with narcissists than males are. Males tend to be more self-contained, stoic, and cautious about discussing personal things.

      However there are quite a few males who blog about their experiences with narcissists:

      https://apensiveheart.wordpress.com/

      https://thenarcissistsson.wordpress.com/

      http://www.arachnoid.com/psychology/narcissism_revisited.html

      Narcissists come in all forms of gender, as do those who attract narcissists. Narcissistic Personality Disorder embraces gender equality. Anyone and everyone, regardless of gender, can be a narcissist, can have NPD, and can be attractive to narcissists. It is not gender specific.

      I am female, and I tend to attract female narcissists more so than male narcissists. I also tend to attract Covert narcissists, mainly female but sometimes also male, rather than Overt narcissists, male or female.

      It’s about a personality disorder and how it affects us as an individual, rather than about gender.

      Please feel free to share your story if you would like to do so. You are welcome to do so whatever your gender and the gender of your particular narcissists. It’s about being human.

      Over to you!

      Like

  10. If you’re dealing with a narcissists, you may be you’re own worst enemy. MOST narcissists are locked in a child like state inters of their interactions with others. If you interact with them as adults, as you would other adults, you will always be on the losing end.

    Interact with them as if they were children … no need to fear them, or apply some mystical power to them … you’re problem is you’re trying to interact with a child as if they were an adult.

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    • Thank you for sharing 🙂

      I hope you don’t mind that I used your comment in my latest post as it was about my narcissist parents and they do indeed behave like children. You’re spot on about that!

      One of my favourite films which I think captures NPD rather well in so many ways is – Hansel and Gretel (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1002567/) – it is a South Korean film about children (who have been children for decades) who take adults hostage and manipulate them into playing happy families.

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  11. I have done something so stupid and tried to get revenge on the narcissist and now it has backfired and i dont know what to do – i was with him for two years and he promised me the world, faked an entire future with me, made me fall in love with him – when he discarded me the first time i didnt even know what a narcissist was, i was devastated but got through it, he came back eight months later full if “i love you’s and i took him back only to be discarded again, only this time i knew he was a narcissist and i have struggled more this time than the first time, i think because i had learnt all about it and that his sole intention was to destroy me and i did not deserve that i am not a horrible person. He left me in debt from borrowing my money and never paying it back, i paid for holidays, shopping, i looked after his daughter and it was all fake, he did not care that i have a young son to look after – well i did something so stupid, i set up a facebook page in his name to see if any other woman were looking for him and then stupidly got drunk and put stuff on there that was to do with his ex – anyway he has now text me saying “your not that clever, my turn now” – why could i not just leave it, he will retaliate i know he will, i have potentially out myself and my son in danger and i cant stop crying, he broke me like no-one has ever done, i feel so alone and wished i had never acted this out now

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    • Thank you for sharing 🙂

      Don’t be too hard on yourself, what you did is something which is very human. To want revenge is really quite normal and natural when we’ve been deeply hurt, feel humiliated, and sometimes we let our pain do the thinking for us.

      You’ve called yourself for your comment ‘Ashamed and Scared’.

      Being ashamed is nothing to be ashamed of, it’s actually a healthy sign. We all do things in a moment of passion of which we are not proud, cross over lines, as long as we can recognise that it may not have been the best thing to do, that it has consequences, and that we can learn from it, and make amends if need be, then it simply shows that we’re human.

      Being scared when dealing with a narcissist is normal, they often inspire fear and use it to control us, have power over us – fear is one of the most primal and ancient forces in the natural and unnatural world.

      Whenever I am afraid of a narcissist and what they might do to get back at me – and they often get back at you even when you haven’t done anything – I try to imagine the worst possible scenario and then work back from there, figuring out solutions to it.

      You have more power in this situation than you are giving yourself credit for having. Whatever he does – you can counter it. Just make sure you deal with it in a level-headed manner if you can – which can be quite a challenge when dealing with a narcissist. They have a way of bringing out the worst in us – you counter it by bringing out the best in yourself.

      Once you’ve done something, you’ve done it – but that doesn’t mean you can’t do something else to alter the course of things. To make amends.

      So… a possible solution to head him off at the pass could be to confess to what you did and apologise publicly (a narcissist is very aware of public opinion and image). A confession and apology can be a very powerful act – and take the wind out of a narcissist’s revenge sails.

      However while confessing and apologising – don’t make excuses for yourself, just tell your story honestly. Explain why you did what you did, own up to not being proud of it, be willing to admit to your shame – in this case shame is a strength as many people can relate, empathise, sympathise. We all feel shame, we all feel pain. We also all feel fear – you could also own up to being afraid of his retribution. Many people will relate to this.

      Don’t blame him for what you did – own what you did. If you blame him, people will take sides, he’ll use it against you… just tell your story authentically, it’s harder to take sides that way as many people have been in a similar situation as you.

      If many of the people he knows are also people you know, and know on a platform like Facebook, then just post your heartfelt story on there as you did on here. You are not as alone as you feel. And everyone is human (except for narcissists, they are too but they refuse to accept it).

      He survived what you did, in fact it flattered him that you did it and you got his attention (even though that’s not the attention you wanted). And you will survive whatever he does, if he does anything, or anything worth worrying about. Narcissists tend to be big on threats and small on follow through, but not always. And he’s not as clever as he thinks he is…

      You’ll be fine, a bit battered and bruised from all of this, but you’ll discover how strong you are and that’s the greatest gift an awful experience can give us!

      Take care of yourself!

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    • I’m so sorry to hear your story…but you are not alone..I too experience the some thing. Start a new move if you can change your number get rid of old friends that new him. Keep reading about naricisstic people. Find your inner peace let go of the hate and the disappointment. Seek Theraphy and move on to save your life..do no contact and stay away.

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  12. What a helpful and timely article. Thank you for writing it. I used the word narcissist loosely for years, but 8 months ago came out of a 3 year relationship with someone who was a certifiable narcissist. He was a slightly below average looking man in his 60’s and I never would have thought he would turn out to be a pathological liar, verbally abusive, and play the kind of horrible mind games he played with me (sexually and otherwise). It felt like our relationship went from love to entanglement and I continually had an underlying feeling of stress…yet, because the other side of it was mr. sweet, I stayed and hoped for the best. It wasn’t until I looked in his email and through his phone bill and realized that his disrespect and disloyalty was not an event but a lifestyle that I full grasped the degree of mental and emotional illness I was dealing with. He started getting uncomfortable when he felt that I was aware of his game and said to me that I care too much about what he does! Well, yes, he was correct!!! We were living together in a committed relationship. The night we ended he still didn’t know that I looked through his things and he sat across from teary eyed saying how sad it was that we were ending — how so much of this was in my mind– how if I thought he was such a disgusting horrible cheater who lied all the time why would I want a boyfriend like that — I cut him off and told him that I looked and asked him if he wanted names. He said NO! Then I said one woman’s name…I will always remember this scene as long as I live and will probably use it in a script. 3 years together and his last words as he ran out of the restaurant…”NOW EVERYONE GONNA KNOW IT’S MY FAULT!” Not, I’m sorry– no remorse or concern for me. It was all about how others would perceive him. I never saw him again. He went on to lie about his actions to anyone who inquired. Never took responsibility. Is surrounded by people who completely enable him and support his way of life — and it’s like I never existed.
    He told people I was “jealous?!!’ and he couldn’t live that way! All of it so ugly, untrue and hurtful. Anyway, 8 months later I still think about him…I feel angry, hurt, and at times obsessed with wishing he would feel some of the same in his life. Today as I was driving along I was thinking about how I could get even with him, but I everything you said in your article is true and I know it. He would do a better job at hurting me because he’s far more practiced at this art. I need to let it go.

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    • Thank you for sharing 🙂

      It is nigh on impossible to get even with a narcissist, especially if they are a full blown narcissist rather than on the middling or lower end of the narcissistic scale, in the conventional manner of getting even with someone, however they are also the sort of people most likely to make us want to get even rather than let it slide.

      The anger and desire for retribution which a narcissist inspires can be hard to get over and let go of. It’s normal and natural to find it hard to let go of the issue and of them.

      With people who aren’t narcissists, when they hurt you, even if they stick to their version of what happened you can usually work things out some way just by talking things over as they have the ability to reason, use logic, and empathise, so they may be able to understand your side of the story, or at least that you have your own version of what happened and that even if they disagree with you they can agree to disagree. Whereas a narcissist can’t, won’t, and never gets that there is any other side of the story than their own. There is no one else who matters than them, there is no other story than the one they are telling.

      Anything you do to be seen or heard, acknowledged, validated, etc, by them ends up becoming just another part of their version of events and they rewrite it to suit them. Do something to get back at them and it will become something they use against you for their benefit, they also get ego boosts from it as it means they’re important to you. Hating them flatters them. Everything you do towards them is a sign to them that they have value and mean something to you.

      Best approach is to ignore them, as difficult as they sometimes make it to do so. Get on with your life and behave as though they don’t exist. They hate that – which is partly why they do it to others.

      If you come across someone who relates his version of your relationship to you, says he told them you were jealous, etc. Just laugh it off as though you were just told the most hilariously ridiculous joke. His version of your relationship is irrelevant – you know the truth, and it really doesn’t matter what he’s telling people or what anyone else thinks – this may seem odd, and it may seem that it does matter what others think and what he’s saying, but it’s not. If you try to set the record straight, you’ll end up confirming his story just by making it seem important, by adding to the drama (narcissists thrive in drama), whereas if you act as if it doesn’t matter, that it’s funny – other people will take their cue from you.

      You mentioned writing your last encounter into a script, which reminded me of ‘Girls’. I don’t know if you’ve watched the series – it contains a narcissist, Marnie, as a character. There’s a storyline in the first season (I think it was the first season) with Marnie and her boyfriend, Charlie. She dumps him, and expects him to pine for the rest of his life for her, when he doesn’t, but moves on finding a new love interest as well as finding career success – she becomes incensed. How dare he move on! How dare he get over her! – That is the best way to get at a narcissist, move on from them and live a happy life. They hate it when other people forget them and find happiness. They seek happiness more than anything else and when someone else has it but they don’t (which they rarely do because they have an uncanny ability to turn everything into misery) it hurts them.

      If you want to get even, be happy. Every time you smile, laugh, have fun, do something for yourself, think of it as another nail in his coffin. That way you can move on and get even while moving on!

      You might find this blog worth checking out – http://letmereach.com/ – Kim offers tips on how to gently move on from being entangled with a narcissist, she’s been there and done that so she is well aware of how difficult it is to move on. She also gives insight into the many reasons why we hang on even when we know we should let go.

      Be gentle with yourself, and take good care of yourself!

      Liked by 1 person

  13. I came across your blog that same way you mentioned. I don’t think you realize how much you have saved me with your words. I feel as if you had been watching me these past weeks, and wrote this article for me to stop my behavior. Everything you said has been true. I guess revenge for me was my last attempt at validation. I wanted to believe he cared on some level. How can you share so much with someone, and be discarded? Was any of it real? He must care about me and miss me a little? Right? But even the little care I was hoping he had, has not made him apologize. He does not feel he is wrong. Isn’t it funny how someone can hurt and disrespect YOU, and end up discarding you due you reacting to their disrespect? This has troubled my soul. No matter how much I try to get him out of my head, he pops back in. Do you think he is secretly sorry or misses me at all? I even tell myself he is, but his pride won’t let him admit it to me. I know have to accept validation will not come from him. But how do I get past wanting him to care how he treated me? How do I get past NEVER hearing he is sorry for hurting me. It is hard for me to allow him to go on being happy after the pain he has caused. That is what brought me to search this topic. I just want to be the person I was before I even knew him. I want the old me back. But how do i ever be the same person after being hurt by a narcissist? It is the worst baggage a woman can carry. Any advice you have is greatly appreciated. Thank you again for this blog.

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    • I decided to not be silent about his very patterned behavior and without using his name I wrote a poem called What He Said– which defines him as a narcissist without ever calling names. I’m simply wrote what he said. I posted it on FB because I feel that one of the problems is that when a person is treated badly by a narcissist they get silenced and shamed for sharing and while the narcissist goes on and is allowed, supported, enabled . Some will find my words inappropriate but in my opinion which counts most- his actions and lies were inappropriate and my response to it more like “reporting” or quoting without accusing or using names. I will never be the same person that I was before this relationship and perhaps in the long run it will be better.

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    • Thank you very much for sharing 🙂

      A narcissist is unable to see beyond themselves, they are completely wrapped up in how they feel, what they think, and focus on what you did to them according to them. They only see their version of reality, their side of the story – their side of the story is the whole story as far as they are concerned. If they treat you badly, disrespect you, lie to you, cheat on you, they tend to justify it to themselves by telling themselves that you deserved it, that they did nothing wrong but you did, that you did something to them, that you started the fight, created the problem. They’re the sort of person who hits you and then blames you for provoking them, for making them hit you. Everything hurts them more than it hurts you. They never accept responsibility, are never accountable, nothing is ever their fault.

      They can’t empathise with others, so they can’t see things from your point of view, so they can’t work things out logically or realise that perhaps they were in the wrong, or meet you halfway and make amends.

      They aren’t this way on purpose, it’s hard wired into them, and they are mostly unaware that they are being this way and that it is a problem.

      This is one of the best articles I have read explaining narcissism, the different types of NPD and its possible causes – http://www.energeticsinstitute.com.au/page/narcissism.html

      Was any of it real? – Yes, narcissists are not like sociopaths although the two disorders have overlaps and similarities. When a narcissist falls in love with you, they believe they love you. It’s not fake. Love is very important to them. However their love has a major element of fantasy, illusion and delusion to it, which makes it unreal. They idealise the person they are in love with, and romanticise the relationship – most narcissists want the kind of love which you see in films and read in romance books. We all want that to a degree, and we all have fantasies about love and idealise those we love, because when we fall in love everything gets blurry and we get starry-eyed, but we know that real love is more than just a fairytale, and even fairytale lovers go through rough patches. Narcissists only want the fantasy version of love. They see themselves as a knight in shining armour, as a hero, and the object of their affection is an angel, a special being who will save them with their love, heal all their pain and live happily ever after. However their expectations are too high and they are easily disappointed, the slightest bump in the road of love and their love bubble bursts. Once that happens everything starts to fall apart and go wrong, and they can’t handle it so they jump ship.

      Is he sorry and does he miss you? – Yes, but probably not in the way that you would like him to. He misses his ideal of you, the person he needed you to be for him, the angel who was going to make everything better for him, and he is sorry that you let him down and couldn’t live up to his high expectation of perfect love. He feels sorry for himself and misses his bubble. This kind of sorry and missing you often prompts a narcissist to turn up in your life again after they’ve discarded you and been silent for a while. The absence from the real you allows them to retrieve their fantasy version of you, and they often return hoping you’ve magically forgotten everything because they have, and that you’re back to being who they need you to be for them.

      Narcissists are like children, one minute they love you and everything is wonderful forever, next minute they hate you and everything is awful and over because you didn’t give them what they wanted. Except unlike children they never learn anything or ever grow up.

      It takes a while to get over being in love with a narcissist, especially the aftermath of it. It’s normal and natural to want closure, to have him apologise, to hear him acknowledge what he did to you, to have validation. These are things which we often get in life, in relationships, but not when the other person is a narcissist, they never give closure, they just leave loose ends flapping in the wind, they never want you to forget them or get over them, and they don’t know how to give those things because they don’t know how to give maturely. They’re children who make a mess and then move on leaving someone else to tidy things up.

      You can’t become the same person you were before you met him, and as painful as that is right now, it’s actually a good thing. This experience will enrich your life, and will bring a far greater love into your life. A relationship with a narcissist can teach you to appreciate your relationships with other people who are not narcissists, and will create deeper connections with others. It also gives you the ability to recognise narcissistic love, which allows you to recognise real love.

      Who you are now is better than who you were, it may take a while to see that you haven’t lost who you were, you’ve gained a new aspect to who you were. You’re stronger, wiser, more aware of yourself and of others.

      This is a good post about learning from the experience – https://afternarcissisticabuse.wordpress.com/2014/06/08/how-the-trauma-of-narcissistic-abuse-changes-our-world-views/

      And this is a great blog about healing from a romantic relationship with a narcissist – http://letmereach.com/

      You’re going to be fine, give yourself time to heal gradually, be gentle with yourself, and take good care of yourself.

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  14. I’my 50 now,married with a 35 woman and have a 5yo hyperlexic sweet little boy.My life is a total mess.My NPD parents are doing well in their 80 and so is my younger brother feedind his N traits on his presbiterian sda flock where he is the saturday star preching about himself.My father was an tyrant wrecking my friendless childhood with his pants belt.My drama queen superliar enabling mother stand allways behind him completing the picture.She is “poor Helen” the one to receive pittings for she’s”look like abnormal husband”.My three times/week beatings ended when I was 15 with a slam to the floor of my father wich I recomand to everybody in my situation.After that the scandal become rare with few flares and menace till I grow to get a job.I’m from a communist eatern state so there was no hauses or rooms to rent and the perspective of having a house even

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  15. Now I go nc to all my relatives exepting a distant cousin who is amazed why I’m not talking to anyone.As I say in my 20 I don’t find a place of my own so I gave half of my earnings not to have any fights with them.They”change”radically and peace seems to somehow landed.Of course the price was a set of rules like no visit from friends and not a really room for me,just a bad and something to eat and some loundry.Argues were often for invented reason so I come to spend my time and the second half of my earning,wich was bigger than theirs,at the bar.My mother keep tellig me that she keeps my money safe in order to help me get a home exept 15%representing my fair share of bills and food.Nestless,I remain alone with my drink and my cigaretts for next 20 years.I learn that they buy indeed an apartment with that money and a car but to my gc brother.I change myself.I turned from lamb into wolf for my father slowly.I begun to work,hardly,kick my habits,finish my universitary studies and get a batchelor degree in sociology.I stopped give them money because my grandmother let me a small apartment that they rented for money.The pretext was to recover their money invested in it wich was the rent for two months.I didn’t know that they did that so I agreed.They pay my allways jobless brother’s bills and some wage for him.I consider to pay my bills and let them the rest to leave me alone.It took 45 years to me to figure out what happens.After I got married unfortunately with a bpd woman they cheat me to give them my grandma apartment to live in with papers till their death giving me the house instead without any paper.After few months they give to my brother2/3of the yard by donation behind my back and a lot of money.I see it when the workers come to put the fence.All the house and yard don`t value as my brother’s apartment.The house is old and without any value.My inheritance from my grandsma is paid by me and used by them.I threat my mother to give me donation upon the rest of my house and she relluctantly did.I say to her that if she didn’t I’m gonna beat the shit outta all of them and she get scared even I didn’t do that ever.She came to me several times to lure me back,she do the hover with no results.The pure violence and fear inducing behaviour,the meaning threat and no contact is the ONLY WAY to deal to this people,my pain brothers and sisters.Scare them,they are easy to scare,yeld to them,fright them with jinxes and make them ridiculous in the front of others.These are their weapons against you,use them.That will NOT make you the same with them because you don’t look for pleasure but peace.After that go nc when you can do it forever.

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    • Thank you very much for sharing 🙂

      You’ve been dealing with what sounds like constant torture NPD style since you were a child, and pushed to your limits, until breaking point. Your strength is admirable, as is your ability to show restraint, and to try to work things out with people who have treated you so despicably.

      I guess the upside of all of this is that they have inspired you to become a force to be reckoned with, and that you have learned every aspect of what abuse of power is all about, and this has encouraged you to use your own power wisely.

      I agree that if you have no way out, are surrounded by narcissists who are continuously using and abusing you, then the only recourse is to fight fire with fire, because those with NPD don’t understand any other behaviour. They only understand their own way of being and behaving, and if you do anything else they think you’re strange and will treat you as though you’re stupid. They don’t realise just how intelligent you are and what an amazing human being you are for caring, for providing, for succeeding in spite of everything they have done. Narcissists do not understand humanity.

      I wish you all the best with your NC, it can be very hard to do because those with NPD do not understand it, never respect it, and can’t stand to hear the silence of cutting off contact with them. They also don’t understand the word ‘No’. But you have a lot of personal power, stamina, strength and bravery, and you will come out of this on top.

      Take good care of yourself, keep going forward doing what you have to do to get yourself out and free from their madness. You deserve health, wealth and happiness.

      Liked by 1 person

  16. Hello,

    I just found your blog a few hours ago and I can already safely say you have profoundly changed my life. I had always had an inkling that I had been around a disproportionate amount of narcissists in my life but you have helped me see thing s for the harsh truth: my mother is a narcissist, as is my brother (the man who raised me and the only male example to form my later relationships on), my first boyfriend, my first intense (on my part anyway) relationship…. I’m having a hard time finding a relationship that *doesn’t* fit the description! So, as I question my current relationship (a man I have been giving serious thought to marrying!), I have a few questions: 1) Is there a such thing as an entitled person who seldom admits to being wrong who’s just “selfish”/self-absorbed as opposed to narcissistic? and 2) is there a way to stop subconsciously attracting these sorts of NAPD people?

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    • Thank you for sharing 🙂

      The first thing to keep in mind is that all humans can be narcissistic and behave narcissistically, as Narcissism is a normal and natural phase of human development, and certain aspects of it are healthy for us. Not all those who are behaving narcissistically, and who may appear to be narcissists, are narcissists (have NPD).

      Psychologists have stated that only a small percent of the population actually has NPD, yet going by all the stories people have shared online it does seem that the percentage may be slightly higher.

      Figuring out if someone is a narcissist or not requires knowing the context around their behaviour, as the narcissistic traits and behaviour could be situational, due to something going on in their lives, they may be stressed out by a relationship or life problem, and they’re acting out in a narcissistic manner. It could also be that they are conforming to what they think society demands of them, and certain aspects of society encourage narcissistic behaviour – the corporate world is notorious for turning regular people into narcissists just to survive and thrive in a cutthroat environment (those who work in this environment may display NPD traits and behaviours but may not actually have NPD). Cultural and gender differences may also apply.

      There are many ‘lists’ online which are designed to help us identify a narcissist, but those lists are generalised and can be quite vague in a way which may end up seeing regular human behaviour as being narcissistic.

      To answer question #1 – Is there a such thing as an entitled person who seldom admits to being wrong who’s just “selfish”/self-absorbed as opposed to narcissistic? – Yes, that encompasses most of us at some point, especially the not wanting to admit when we’re wrong (no one likes doing that) in some way, much depends on the person who is assessing us and the way that we are being and behaving (according to them and their experience of us).

      For instance:

      Someone might think you’re being selfish if you don’t want to do something that they want you to do and you’re honest about it and say no when they want a yes and they can’t accept no as an answer – if you’re busy when they want to spend time with you, if you don’t text them back immediately when they text you, etc.

      They may think you’re self-absorbed because they want you to focus all of your attention on them when you’re with them, and if you are caught up in a matter which is important to you and which takes your attention away from them when they want it they may judge you negatively for that rather than understand that sometimes you need to focus your attention on yourself.

      Some people are prone to being more self-centred than others (or that’s how we may experience them), and they can seem narcissistic to those who are more prone to being others-centred (or someone who is self-centred may think that others should focus on them like they focus on themselves and therefore they experience those who don’t focus on them as being self-centred and don’t see themselves that way).

      Something like ‘entitlement’ needs to be assessed according to whether it is justified or not. If someone has worked very hard to develop a skill, achieve a goal, then they may be entitled to have a sense of entitlement. They feel they have done what is required of them to get a reward, and society may have promised them a prize for doing what they have done.

      There are as many variables as there are people in the world, and it can be difficult to assess all those variables, especially as we tend to do it from our own position, points of personal reference and self-bias.

      These are a couple of interesting articles worth checking out:

      https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/fulfillment-any-age/201204/it-s-fine-line-between-narcissism-and-egocentrism

      https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/inside-out/201307/how-realistic-are-your-relationship-expectations

      Sometimes it’s not so much about whether the other person is a narcissist or not, but in how we experience them. If we experience someone as a narcissist, or if we suspect that someone is a narcissist, that is going impact our relationship regardless of who they are or are not.

      If you suspect that this man you are considering marrying may be a narcissist, then you need to look into why you think that about him. It’s best to understand why you’re thinking that now rather than push it aside. Narcissists tend to be consistently narcissistic about everything, even the tiniest and most insignificant detail.

      So the sense of entitlement will encompass things that don’t have any bearing on who this person is – they’ll expect to win the prizes for contests they haven’t entered. They’ll think they’re a scientific genius without knowing anything about science other than what they’ve read in a magazine article, and they’ll expect everyone to bow down to their science.

      The inability to admit they are wrong will be about things which you can prove without a shadow of a doubt that they are wrong about. The very idea of being wrong makes them break out in a fit of rage and they will scream and scream until everyone stops trying to get them to admit they’re wrong, and agrees that they’re right even if everyone (except them) has to die to do that. They’ll insist that they know you better than you know yourself and will bully you into submission about it (usually just to shut them up). You could record them ordering pizza with pepperoni and when they get their pizza with pepperoni they will say they didn’t order the pizza that way, and if you play the recording of their voice ordering pizza that way they’ll deny it and accuse you of doctoring the tape.

      The selfishness and self-absorption will be relentless, and if they ever do anything for you – it will come with strings attached, you’ll own them for it, will be expected to be grateful for it for the rest of eternity. They only give to get.

      A narcissist is consistently narcissistic and there is nothing you can do about it. They will not change no matter how much you love them and they say they love you. A non-narcissist who appears to be narcissistic won’t be consistently narcissistic.

      In answer to question #2 – is there a way to stop subconsciously attracting these sorts of NAPD people? – the short answer is no. What attracts a narcissist to you is not a ‘flaw’ or ‘error’ in you. They’re attracted to you as you are, to the things which are normally and naturally attractive about you, to the same things about you which non-narcissists also find attractive.

      Everyone attracts narcissists, because narcissists need other people as their sense of self, of identity, relies on other people. So they are constantly seeking someone – anyone to give them what they are lacking. If you seem to have a strong sense of self, they will find you very attractive as they want what you have for themselves. They also tend to feel quite vulnerable, so they often find gentle people very attractive.

      Their attraction can be fickle, they get bored of people easily, especially if people don’t live up to their ideal of them – which is easy to do as they are idealistic perfectionists who have relationship quests for others which are impossible to fulfill. If you don’t tell a narcissist what they want to hear or don’t do what they want you to do, if you aren’t who they’ve decided that you have to be for them, they’ll discard you to go off in search of someone else.

      The problem is not in attracting narcissists but in them latching onto you, becoming obsessed with you, sticking around – once they latch on getting them to let go can be problematic. This isn’t your ‘fault’, other than perhaps you were being pleasing when you should have been unpleasant, but you didn’t know that they were a narcissist and not a regular person at the time.

      The ‘subconscious’ aspect which can also be a problem when you attract a narcissist is less to do with what attracted them to you and more to do with what attracted you to them – what made them stand out from all those who have been attracted to you and wanted a relationship with you, and what inspired you to develop a relationship with them.

      Our attraction to narcissists is far more pertinent than their attraction to us. Our attraction to them is often hidden in the recesses of our minds. In your case you’ve pinpointed what that might be by knowing that your brother whom you think may be a narcissist set the standard of relationship with men for you. With women, your mother would have done that – so if you also attract female narcissists, that’s where to look for your attraction to them in return.

      So the question to explore isn’t – why do I attract narcissists (or people of that sort) and how do I stop doing whatever it is that they find attractive – as this question may result with you realising that who you are is what is attractive and changing that would mean not being yourself – which is not something you want to do.

      The question is – Why do I find narcissists (or people of that sort) attractive – what is it about them which makes me pay attention to them and get involved in relationships with them.

      If you grew up with narcissists then the answer is that you’re repeating a pattern (which can be broken, gradually and gently) which you learned as a child, and you may be attracted to narcissistic people because it is a familiar relationship experience, and non-narcissists are a strange and unknown experience. Non-narcissists are often not as exciting at first as narcissists, as they’re a slow-burn kind of passion, you have to get to know them, and they take their time getting to know you. Narcissists tend to be a fast, furious, burning the candle at both ends kind of passion which ends up burning the house down with you in it.

      If you’re looking for a Prince Charming in a love relationship, you’re more likely to be attracted to a narcissist as they go out of their way to be Prince Charming (and later they turn into a frog).

      My suggestion with regards to this man you are considering marrying – if he has a family, and you can meet them (or have met them), study his family, their dynamic, and his relationship with them, that may answer some of your questions. Or just ask him to tell you more about his early life, his family, etc. That can be very revealing as when you marry someone you also marry into their family, and their history with their family.

      Also maybe get to know him from some other angles than the ones you’re used to. Take a trip into a zone which isn’t one he finds comfortable and see how he reacts – also keep an eye on how you react to how he reacts. Often the only way to know if we’re with a narcissist or not is in how a person affects us – the more self-inhibited you feel in their company, the more likely it is that they may be very narcissistic and maybe even a narcissist.

      Best wishes, and take good care of yourself!

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  17. I have been reading about narcissists for days now as I think I have been dating one for a while. I have tried to leave many times thinking he is just a hypocrite and eventually returning because he has made me feel bad or changed his stories over and over again to the point where I felt like giving in to him was easier. I’m finding it so hard to leave because he just won’t allow me I’ve even started doing the things he does or showing him how wrong he is by doing what was ok for him to do but not me as I felt that was the only way of getting through to him because nothing I said about him ever seemed right n he’d always come back with how much he loves me n how much it hurts him that id be out there moving on with someone else. At times he would apologise even though it felt so lame because he’d always throw comments on how originally it’s my fault n what I did made him do what he did. My final straw was him telling me how if he cheated on me it would be my fault too when I flicked the comment off thinking he has mentioned so many times he’d never do that to me or how much no1 else has ever come close to how I make him feel he got angry at how I would even tell him to go for it. We later spoke about it and he turned it around on me saying I accused him of cheating he locked me up in his car n yelled down my throat for almost 2 hours got a little physical and wouldn’t let me leave n went on n on about how worthless I was to him how disgusting n disrespectful I am for not looking at him when he talks or not answering his yes or no questions. It got very heated n I tried to shut him out but my anxiety kicked in n he then turned it all around instantly by saying how much he loved me and how hurt he was that I’d think he’d do that so at that point it was just easier for me to accept his apology n agree with everything he said just so I could leave the next day I told him his attack wasn’t on n that I was leaving for good he then attacked me for what I’d been through in my past n attacked my friends accused me of being with other men and that’s the real reason he said I wanted to leave his also threatened to post videos of me which I never even knew he had and continued with how disrespectful and dirty I was to him how crazy and jealous I am n how i always leave things on bad terms. He then at the end tells me how much I hate him but he stil loves me so much and would do anything to have me back even therapy for his anger I told him further then friends I will not be with him as I feel I need to ween myself off him as his been in my face or on the phone 24/7. Now it’s my bad temper that has lead us here and I tried being nice about it but eventually got angry again n bullied him back like he does to me. I don’t know what to call him weather he is a narcissist or an abuser a hypocrite or a selfish brat but I’m finding it very hard to leave as he wont let me n being nice about it ontop of all the degrading attitude he gives me. What is the best way to go about it do I simply ignore n have him rock up in my face constantly or do I keep him calm by being nice until he gets over it? Everyone I’ve asked has thought it was me as his the nicest guy In town they know but I have seen many sides of him and a lot of which I truely believe r fake even though he has changed somethings I’ve been upset about but never lets me live it down now I’m stuck in this mess not knowing how to get out or if I can I’m even starting to feel like a narcissist myself

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    • Thank you for sharing 🙂

      The problem with asking other people about your relationship is that they can only see things from their point of view which is outside of the actual relationship. They’re not you, they’re not there when it’s just you and him, they don’t see with their own eyes and feel with their own feelings what goes on when there is no one else around, and telling them about what goes on between you and him when no one else is around is not necessarily going be believed because they were not there and didn’t experience it so it’s your word against their view of him. For them perhaps he is the nicest guy in town because when they interact with him he’s nice, maybe he only interacts with them when he’s in a good mood and he doesn’t interact with them when he’s in a bad mood, so they only get to see the nice side of him.

      How did he seem to you when you first met him, did he seem like the nicest guy in town and is that why you were attracted to him. When he first showed you his nastier side did you find it hard to believe that someone who seemed so nice could be that way? And because you thought he was such a nice guy, did you think that maybe his nasty side was your fault? Did you think that if you were nicer to him it would make him nicer to you, but no matter how nice you are he still finds a way to be nasty, and he still blames you for his behaviour? This is a classic dynamic in an abusive relationship.

      This outlines that – http://www.huffingtonpost.com/pamela-jacobs/early-warning-signs-of-an_b_6009076.html

      Going by what you’ve shared of your relationship with him, how he behaves with you, how he treats you and how it has affected you, it does sound as though he is abusive, and therefore is an abuser.

      You are experiencing him as an abuser. Whether he is abusive with anyone else, whether others see him this way is not going to change how you experience him.

      My advice would be to check out sites like this one – http://au.reachout.com/signs-of-an-abusive-relationship – which have resources and offer clarity about abusive relationships.

      And read articles like this one – http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2014/10/13/21-warning-signs-of-an-emotionally-abusive-relationship/

      which point out things like this:

      “It is important to remember is that it is absolutely not your fault. Abusers are expert manipulators with a knack for getting you to believe that the way you are being treated is your fault. These people know that everyone has insecurities, and they use those insecurities against you.

      Abusers can convince you that you do not deserve better treatment or that they are treating you this way to “help” you. Some abusers even act quite charming and nice in public so that others have a good impression of them. In private is a different story, which is also quite baffling.”

      It can be difficult to leave an abuser, they tend to get more abusive when you try to end the relationship, but they also can turn on the charm to make you doubt your own perception of their abusive behaviour. There are steps advised for leaving an abuser, an abuse support group either online or in person will guide you through what you need to know and do, and will help you. If possible find a local support group so that you have people you can turn to who will support you through this process.

      Take care of yourself.

      Like

  18. Not sure if this is ‘revenge’. He cheated on me with prostitutes and mistresses then when I opened my eyes and left him, he was intent on destroying me financially too. I built our life brick by brick for 7 years, while he worked at knocking each brick down and in the end he wanted to destroy me for having the gall to abandon him. Is it revenge to fight back, promise him the world if he does what I want for a change? Ok so I took him back on false hopes, and promised him the world and he released me by signing Court documents instead of wasting years and most of the money on lawyers. Then I left him and told him what I did. No I’m not concerned about him returning to even the score, he has already tried to ‘hoover’ me back unsuccessfully and he failed miserably both times. He is most definitely too demoralized to even think about returning, he has been beaten by a small girl who decided this narcissist bullshit was ‘bullshit’ and she was going to fight back and not allow him to destroy her life just because he thinks he can. Why do we call our reactions ‘revenge’? Why label our reactions to bullshit negatively. Why not fight them back and get them back? we never asked for all the shit, all we wanted was a loving and trusting relationship. If they cant take shit, then they should reconsider dishing it out because one day or the other they will come across someone who can catch their shit and throw it right back. It’s called LIFE! And life happens to everyone sooner or later….Am I a bad person for taking care of my own needs when I realized he didn’t give a shit about me unless he could get what he needed?

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    • Thank you for sharing 🙂

      That sounds more like strategy than revenge as the intention behind your actions was freeing yourself from him rather than paying him back for what he’d done to you. That you got payback while doing what you needed to do to get out of the relationship could be considered a side order of revenge, but the main dish was getting free from him, from his BS, and that experience.

      Sounds to me as though you did what you had to do to get out of a bad situation, and now you’re free from him. Seems like a good result.

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      • Thank you for replying. I will now stop referring to my actions as ‘revenge’, rather look back on it and thank God I was strong enough to get rid of him finally while having the strength to think how to keep what he was intent on destroying just to prove his power and control over someone he believed was not smart or strong enough to outwit him.

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  19. Thank you for this post I almost got sucked back into his never ending game I forgot the only way to win is to stop playing you saved me more pain

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    • Thank you for sharing 🙂

      It can be all too easy to get sucked back in, and so easy to forget what we need to remember. Sometimes we need to get sucked back in to remind us vividly why we got out. But just because we may get sucked back in again doesn’t mean we have to stay the course. We can make up our own rules 😉

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  20. I was involved, im pretty sure with a narcissistic for 2 yrs. I have been nc for about 5 days now and struggling sending him a bitch out text telling him Im on to his actions.

    We live in a small town and he is all about his status bigtime. If i ever heard anything on him he would want to know who said it and details and become obsessed with it. He was also obsessed with his body…excercised twice a day. Also drank beer everyday and im pretty sure is a functioning alcoholic.
    Further in our relationship if we were at odds i would express my feeling and how i was hurt. One situation i sent a text after a wk of us back in forth. He would ignore me all day. So i would try again nxt day and pop in that he was still in the rumor mill. I knew it was a way to get a reaction to see if he was really reading texts and not responding. Turns out he backfired a text asking who?! What did they say?! Tell him everything?! I called him out on his avoidance of me for two days and he said just now had time to respond.
    I had always felt like he kept me on a leash. He would just leave on a trip to mexico without telling me. When i asked he acted like wasnt bigdeal and i was being rediculous in asking. I think he even claimed he had a stalker.
    If i was vocal in my concerns for us he would avoid. If i dismissed and gave him attention than he would desire me again.

    In the past i tried walking away from him so many times as our relationship progressed. He would beg me not to. One time even said i was his option. That turned me wrong but i ignored it. Things he said didnt add up. Little lies here and there. Started making excuses to why he couldnt see me. Making empty promises etc. The majority of our communication revolved around sexting. He liked it and thought it was fun. I didnt and told him i wanted to talk some normal too. He would respond how i made him feel bad because of it. I told him so much about me but i really knew just crumbs about him. It all felt like he was half there.

    One time I found a mark that looked like a hickey on his shoulder. Asked about it and his cheeks turned red and he blamed on me without even looking at it. I said nope not me. He then said how he thought was a irritation and talked forever about it. I brought it up again few months later when i was upset. He cussed at me and said i remember crazy things. Asked if i had a crystal ball. Everything spiraled from that point. The mask started to come off. His texts started getting sarcastic and mean. At one point i told him i wasnt sticking around if he wouldnt tell me the truths. He cut the texts off for a wknd. Then text me on a Mon asking how i was doing, picking right back up like nothing happened. I let it go and was nice back thinking maybe i was wrong on everything. Tues never heard from him. Wed i text him late in day saying hey? His response contradicted himself saying “what”? I said really? He said u kicked me to the curb. I said “we just talked two days ago nice”. He said “well i should have told u i was out of town with another employee with me. Sorry”. WTH?! It was so messed up like most his responses. The communication definitely went downhill drastically. He would make promises to not keep them and then make excuses. Sexually he would start asking what i have done in past and asked bc he said wanted to make our sex life better. I at the time didnt know we had a problem. He would send me texts while drunk getting very mean about why i didnt do different things sexually…asking how did i not know i didnt like them if i didnt try. It was like he was screaming thru text with all the cussing too. That was huge for me…i was floored and devastated. I knew he wanted to have it in the a**. He asked nicely in past and i said no. I told him nxt day how insulting and disrespectful he is toward me. He said he could explain how i mistook it. He said it was a speech text mistake. He was always saying i mistook and misunderstood his texts…i was reading into them way to much. I have apologized so many times bc he made me feel guilty for his sadness. I mainly always did do the apologizing bc i valued us more. I just wanted the avoiding of his silent treatment gone.

    I today question his sexuality. He always wanted me to tell him how big his p***s was. Wanted confirmation if he was the best lover i had. Started taking pics of his genitals almost every day and texting them to me. Asked me to reciprocate but i resisted. That made him upset. He at one time shaved his testicles and told me he showed the other men in the locker room. I dont believe it. Another time said the women in the suit department loved measuring him…they would fight over who did it. Always trying to make me jealous. The thing was i could read into it and know. It was just so off to me.

    Then the gifts. Our first vday together. He gave me diamond earrings. Two wks later on his bday i went out of my way and tried to make him feel special with a cake and gifts. My bday a few months later i got a nice text saying he loved being with me. He was too busy to meet me even a wk after bday. I rcvd no gifts from him…not one piece of candy, no flower, bottle of wine…nothing. Holidays after were the same…no gift. He was too busy to even meet me for holiday. Nothing from him but i spent on him. When i went on shopping spree out of town he would always ask for me to shop for him too. Then would sometimes ask for me to buy him a new work shirt or shoes. Told me he needed to reimburse me but never did and i felt bad asking. Second vday together i spent on him and he gave me a statue. A 10″ naked one with mans genitals showing. Said it would remind me of him. I never wanted a sugar daddy but this to me was not normal in a healthy loving relationship.

    Over a repeated pattern of time he has finally wore me out. I know he is not right in his way of thinking. Nothing about how we argue doesnt seem normal. I sent my last email to him a wk ago telling him how i have felt during our relationship. Saying he is never remorseful to his treatment to me and i do the apologizing. The hurt over the gifts and holidays was another. His mean texts making me feel doubt and manipulation. He responded that his life is sad, empty, depressed and has been his whole life and now i have made him feel even more unworthy. He stated that he loved our bodied together. He loved my gentleness when we were together. He said he never thought he would be happy…seemed to be destined a life of sadness. That he couldnt even keep me happy. I responded that im not taking the blame this time for his consequences for his actions.

    I am now finally putting so many puzzle pieces together with the help of articles like yours and others. The fake love comments..they only were said when he wanted something in return. Just so many things adding up. Esp the communication thru texts and how he could twist my thoughts.

    So my question is…does this sound like subtle narcissistic behavior, sociopath or mixture of both? And if we know its not good why do we have that itch to send a text or email. I mainly want to show him what a shithead he is at the same time have the old boyfriend that gave me so many compliments. Im almost 90% sure, him being so cocky about his image in town, that I dont think he will do any damage to me. Im pretty sure he will just stick to the silent treatment.

    Like

    • Thank you for sharing 🙂

      From your description of him and his behaviour, it does sound as though he is very narcissistic and might be a narcissist. The relationship does come across as being all about him and what he needs from you for his own benefit, for his ego, and when he doesn’t need anything from you he ignores you.

      Typically narcissists tend to only remember you exist when they need something from you, and their interaction with you has to be all about them. If you try and make it about you they get bored, annoyed, frustrated, try to bully you with emotional blackmail into focusing your attention only on them, accuse you of all sorts of random crimes they think you’ve committed against them, and if you refuse to relate to them the way they want you to they go off in a huff and sulk, give you the silent treatment.

      The ‘itch’ you have to text him, send an email, contact him again, is a normal reaction to being around a narcissist. They always leave you feeling dissatisfied, with unfinished business, unheard, invalidated, unacknowledged, and with no closure. They also leave you with a bad taste in your mouth, thinking that somehow everything is all your fault and that you should make amends, or that you need to justify yourself to them, prove to them that it’s not all your fault and get across to them that it may be their fault – they will never accept anything as being their fault, and if you blame them they’ll twist it around and the blame will end up being yours again.

      They leave you feeling very frustrated with all these things you want to say, such as telling him what a shithead he is. You could tell him repeatedly how much he has hurt you, what he has done to you, what is wrong with him, how awful he’s been and you might get temporary relief from having said all of that but the frustration will return because a typical narcissist will never apologise (not genuinely, although you might get a fake apology if they want something from you), will never react to your words the way that you would like them to, they don’t actually listen the way you expect a person to listen, they hear what they want to hear not what you want them to hear, and they’ll never change for you or give you what you really want from them. You will never have the sort of relationship you want if the other person is a narcissist.

      Once the honeymoon phase of a relationship with a narcissist is over, the wonderful person they seemed to be, the one who showered you with gifts and compliments, is gone. That person is now replaced with the less pleasant side of the narcissist which is the more consistent side. And the more you know about them, the less pleasant they become. This is who they really are underneath the smiles and charm. He pretty much told you that when he said that he saw himself as destined for a life of sadness. Narcissists are very unhappy people, their unhappiness is a wound which they expect others to cure for them as they have no idea how to solve their own problems, partly because they think that they’re not the ones with the problem, it’s everyone else who is the problem.

      For more information, I suggest checking this blog out – https://letmereach.com/ – it deals with romantic relationships with narcissists, the challenges, issues of it, and offers tips and tricks for handling breaking up with a narcissist and sticking with NC.

      Best wishes!

      Like

      • Thank you for your advise. It has helped ease alot of my confusion. I just hope one day I can go without giving him any thought. Lesson learned on my side for sure.

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      • What do you make of my ex-N’s reply to me after i told him i was done with the charades in not too nice words. His response is below…

        I know this is late in responding, so I’m sorry. I’m not a horrible person. Trust me I want to think I’m good. I want you to think that in your memories of me. Baby at the end of the day I realized I’m not worthy of you., you have a lot to give and I’m so limited. You told me you would seek that and you should. Your special! Sounds like maybe your peace is coming true that you want. I’m not bad, but I’m sorry that you think so. My heart is actually my biggest fault. I take very thing to heart

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        • It’s a very clever reply. He took a lot of time to think this one through before he sent it.

          In your original comment on this blog you said that you wanted to be free of him – this is your chance to seize your freedom. He’s given you a get out of the jail of this relationship card, take it and set yourself free.

          This is pretty much as close as you’ll ever get to an apology from a narcissist. If it doesn’t feel like an apology, it’s because it’s not. However if they give you this kind of speech, don’t waste your time worrying about what it isn’t and what you wished that it had been as that’s how you stay stuck in the relationship.

          My advice to you is to let this be the last word between you. It’s a good place to end things.

          If you’re really done with the charades, then be done with it.

          There is no reply to his reply other than you moving on.

          If you’re tempted to keep the conversation with him going and feel the need to write to him – do it on a piece of paper then shred it, burn it but don’t send it.

          Take good care of yourself and go after your bliss 🙂

          Like

          • Thank you for your input. No, his apology didnt seem all there to me. I will take your advise and leave it behind and walk away. I do want bliss. Thanks again! 🙂

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            • I am so glad I read this portion of the comments.

              My ex husband finally admitted to me the other day he was angry with me for being sick with postnatal depression. Because I was not there for him! When I told him how cruel he was to me, his “apology” was along the lines of “If I was cruel, I’m sorry”. And “I think really highly of you but my friends can’t figure out why”. This to me is his passive aggressive way of showing me what he really thinks of me but won’t admit. He always has be be the guy who is above all those petty emotions.

              I am left dazed and confused and sucked in again.

              I had such severe depression I could no longer revolve around him. He became more angry, manipulative, cold, calculating and downright creepy. He would mostly stay calm as he tore me down and tell me how selfish I was and how the world did not revolve around me. I now realise he was pissed because it was no longer revolving around him.

              To the outside world he portrayed the caring doting husband. To say I felt discombobulated is an understatement. Not only was he 2 different people between inside and outside the house, he was 2 different people to me at home. It was mind boggling.

              He also told me that 7 months after being “in limbo” after the breakdown of our 20 year relationship he just got up and started again. “it’s like it (the relationship) never happened”

              It was very hard to tell when my ex was angry. You mention above its easy to upset a narcissist. But mine would hide it very well, or let on he’s not upset. And yet days or years later I could be on the receiving end of and undercurrent of seething rage for something unbeknownst to me.

              I read the apology above and I realise my ex would not even close close to that. And I realise it’s just empty words. But recently he is saying stuff like he is just not good with emotions and that I am. it parallels a little with what I am reading in this apology.

              I do hope you walk away and listen to your gut instinct. If it doesn’t feel right, it is not right.

              It might save you years of going round and round the bend and ending up depressed. I’ve been there and am.still trying to live well and piece myself back together.

              Good luck to you.

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              • Rachel….thank you so much for your comment. Everything you mentioned hit home with how my ex-Narc was with me. Very passive aggressive. My emotions were never ever his fault, the blame was always twisted and thrown back at me. It really really has you questioning your own sanity its scary. And your right, i was sucked in over and over time until i finally was burnt and broke down with having way too much. When I feel sad at times of how things went so wrong, I just remind myself of the situations I caught his being evil towards me. Gives me the reality check I need! God bless you for being so strong. I pray for all of us victims.

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  21. Thank you, beautifully written. I came looking for a way to get revenge, to restore balance and so let go of my pain and anger, but instead i see my time and energy should be spent getting my own head and heart back in order, back to the me who would never want to hurt someone else.

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    • Thank you for sharing 🙂

      It took me a long time to realise that wanting revenge was just another way I was feeding the narcissists in my life with attention and energy, and that I was neglecting myself while focusing on them. Focusing my attention on myself has made a big difference in my well-being, it’s also made me a nicer person to be around – I never realised the extent to which my anger and pain at my narcissists affected the others in my life.

      Take good care of yourself!

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  22. My mother is so evil she scares the hell out of me. Her name is Helma. She is so insane her abuse has been passed down on three generations. My father was a regressed pedophile. The two of them desteroyed over three dozen childrens lives. My fathers name was Melvin. Hellma and Melestor were extremely sick people who went as far as to murder to fulfil their sick evil ways. However they are pillars of society and have never paid for their crimes.

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  23. I’m worn out. It’s been since 2/11/15 when just 6 weeks after he said, “Let’s get married on Christmas Eve”, that out of the blue, he came up behind me and tried to kill me in three separate attacks. Since then, the Civil courts and his $12,000/month income afforded him the most vicious attorneys, and the three (3) different attorneys I hired to try to fight back and simply present the truth, failed miserably, receiving over $25,000 in retainers, and not getting me anything. Nothing. I lost my motor home, the bank accounts were cleaned out (against court order), he failed to pay me the interim support, as well as the non-modifiable final payment of support. He protested the meager separation of ‘stuff’, and took me to arbitration, then filed ‘du novo after arbitration’. The two different interim judges were not kind, or interesting in spending a lot of time seeking the truth, or even allowing me to present my case, since at this point I was self-representing. It’s been a nightmare for the past 17 months, and I’m not sure the Civil part is even over now. Surely he will come back at me again, and again, and again. The Criminal Trial has already seen two changes of District Attorneys, and I’ve been interrogated like I was the perpetrator. My entire life has been controlled by the impact of this bastard, who LOVES to hold court, and already had his next victim lined up by the second week of our marriage. His intent: To marry me just after my Mother passed away, we changed our Wills, then kill me in hopes of receiving my ‘would-be’ inheritance. He took his ex-wife to court for four years, costing her over $100,000 simply to defend herself and answer his allegations of theft, forgery, and more. He is doing the same thing to me, only I don’t have $100,000 to pay retainers that guarantee no results. I’m worn out. I have been isolated from what little family and all friends, as I moved to Baja, Mexico simply for the low cost of living, and to be as far away from him as possible. I feel like I’ve become a very negative drama drain on what friends I have been able to stay connected to via the internet, and I’m sure they are tired of it. My feelings of inadequacy, self-worth, purpose, have been diminished to crumbs. I want it to end. I want some semblance of a life back. I want this man to die, so I can feel relief that he will stop coming after me. I know he won’t stop stalking me until he is gone. He continues to covertly investigate the whereabouts of his ex. The judicial system is horrible, dysfunctional, and not supportive at all. They simply want to determine if I am credible, and could withstand a trial. They interrogate me like I am the attacker.

    I just want it to stop. I cry daily, my body aches from the stress, and I feel terribly isolated and alone. WHEN will this madness end. Will I EVER heal? I’m getting to the point that life is so painful, the only parts I enjoy are the brief ‘bites’ of time in the ocean with my little rescue dog, and when I sleep, if I am not having nightmares about this horrible journey. When I do have “good dreams”, I awake only to realize the dreams were just that, and my reality is the nightmare… Our lives for the many years we were together, I was SO wrapped around making him happy, to build our “forever”, then along came a baseball bat and simply shattered my world like a Christmas ornament on a string… I don’t know how much longer I can keep going………. =(

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    • Thank you for sharing 🙂

      It sounds like this guy’s MO is to find someone who will make their life revolve around him and ‘making him happy’ but what really seems to make him ‘happy’ is fighting people in court, dragging them through the mud, humiliating them in front of others, and making a big public drama out of the relationship.

      He’s doing to you what he did to his ex. What people do to the person they ‘loved’ before you tends to be what they’ll most likely do to you now that their ‘love’ has moved onto you as people tend to follow patterns of behaviour, but unfortunately we don’t find this sort of thing out until after they do to us what they did to the person before us.

      His ‘love’ is bankrupting you, as he bankrupted her before you. She may have had more money to use to fight him but perhaps that was all she had and he made her use it.

      He builds himself up by destroying others, those others who made the mistake of loving him… that’s a terrible price to pay for loving someone.

      You’re far stronger than you know, things like this push us to our limits and still we keep going – so our limits aren’t our limits. You will survive this, you have so far and you will keep going.

      The friends who are still there for you… yes, they may be tired of hearing about this but if they’re still there for you then they are awesome friends. It’s worth remembering that they may feel helpless to help you, just as you feel helpless. You’re living the nightmare, they get to hear about it without being able to do anything about it.

      The brief ‘bites’ you get – savour those, those moments of feeling good when everything hurts are important. It’s okay to have good dreams. It’s okay to smile during a rainstorm of tears and misery. The strength we don’t think we have often reminds us it is there through small details.

      The legal system is not well designed to deal with the sort of sociopaths and narcissists who haven’t committed an ‘obvious’ crime, and the twisted games that they play using the legal system, partly because those sort of people don’t view the legal system and the law as applying to them. They don’t care about the rules unless they’re using the fact that you do care about rules against you.

      Chances are that he’s used more than one lawyer in his battles and that he’s probably discarded (and pissed off) more than one lawyer along the way, maybe contacting them or his ex might prove useful, not because they’ll necessarily help you themselves but they may give you some pertinent information about him which you can use to make the scales of balance tip in your favour.

      He’s made mistakes – find those mistakes then consider the best way to use them. He sounds over-confident – people who are over-confident tend to leave a trail of usable errors behind them.

      Also consider what his ‘end game’ is. What does he really want – find that and you find the reason why he’s doing what he’s doing and his Achilles’ heel. If you can research his ‘history’ maybe you’ll find someone who ‘won’ against him in the past.

      Do you remember what made the court battle he had with his ex end?

      Did he have other court battles before or after his ex?

      Who or what does he fear?

      Don’t give up on yourself, but do consider giving up on any battles which you don’t need to fight so that you can focus on those battles which you do need to fight. Regroup your resources. Sometimes we have to give something up to get something far more important… although sometimes we have to fight for everything to get a small victory.

      It’s worth keeping in mind that we’re at our most dangerous when we have nothing left to lose, when we have been shattered… the slivers of your Christmas ornaments can be deadly in a way that the bat which smashed it can’t be. Sticking with things you can do legally, because you don’t want to go over that line – what would shatter him? You must have heard him talk about his battle with his ex, what really bothered him about it? Find his weak spot and use it against him (don’t commit any crimes to do this no matter how pushed to the limit you are).

      You will get through this.

      Like

    • I feel like you have my life. Unfortunately, I have two little ones and cannot leave. I have ignored, fully complied and fought but nothing works He has the money and I have nothing. This will never end
      I am exhausted.

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  24. Im in serious need of advise im 2 years in a very bad bad bad way bad emotional, mental physical I dont even have words to express. For 2 weeks im planning to kill this monster but I have a beautiful baby boy. My monster just have it was to get to me. I look craze living in a room of darkness. PleasePlease help me

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    • Thank you for sharing 🙂

      I can relate to the ‘room of darkness’ and the urge to kill someone who is a monster in your life as a way to solve what seems impossible to solve any other way. Sometimes we end up in a desperate corner, tired, distraught, fearful, powerless and helpless, filled with crazy thoughts and overwhelmed by intense emotions. When we’re cornered and see no way out we tend to want to lash out and may do so blindly because we can no longer see beyond the terrible pressure of the moment.

      You need to consider the consequences of any action you take – killing your monster will hurt you far more than it will hurt your monster, and it will hurt your beautiful baby boy for the rest of his life. You may solve your monster problem but that solution will create another monster of a problem. Your baby is your light to guide you through this darkness – make choices based on what is healthiest for him, and what is healthiest for him is to have you caring for him, caring for yourself so that you can care for him, and not in prison because you killed someone. It’s also worth considering that you might fail in your attempt to kill your monster and then you’ll be in prison and your monster will be free, enjoying the benefits of the status, and if the monster is the father of your child then he’ll get custody.

      There are other ways to ‘kill’ your monster, ones which are legal, and far more productive and healthy for you and your beautiful child.

      If your monster is abusive towards you, then you need to seek professional assistance. Share your story with those who can help you solve your problem in a practical manner. Find a local support group – one wherein the members have been through a similar situation and can guide you through the steps to take, giving you power and the ability to help yourself and your baby.

      One of the worst aspects of being in a room in darkness is the belief that you’re all alone – you are not alone, other people have experienced the darkness and terror, the desperation, and have survived it coming out of it stronger. But you do need to reach out to others, to those in your immediate environment who can help – family, friends, professionals.

      If you’re at that point where you feel that you have nothing to lose enough to do something desperate and destructive, then you also have nothing to lose reaching out and asking for help from those around you, from a therapist, from the authorities (depending on what kind of monster your monster is).

      Please take care of yourself.

      Like

  25. Good Morning thank you for the reply. This monster turn everybody against me. So that he can control and kill my power of being me. He stole my joy and made me go craze. I went to the neighbour and talk to her. And she couldnt believe what she is hearing with tears in pain in my eyes she answer me with this. That the monster was telling them the same thing. He makes everyone think bad of me. I cried and told her will I ever be crying if I suffer I cant even explain how the monster make me feel. He makes everything ugly. New Year I invited my best friend over we had a lovely girls night in our back yard. Just the 2 of us. The monster was sleeping and our baby boy. He never slept he hide behind our outside and overheard our conversation. Just as something tell me to enter the house he looked at me with dark eyes and said no word. After that he did his ways to kill my friendship with my best friend. I am 33 I have no no life. I feel like im over my 80st with this monster. I end up crying infront of him telling him how he makes me feel. But he never even react to it in a minute he will ask what am I talking about. Each day when the monster comes home dont talk or talk about his day at at work. He creeps behind me to see what im doing. For 6 months im trying to be like him silent and secretive and it is working it makes him go craze. He keep on accusing me of cheating every single day and every single day I explain to him who wants me after all u leave me looking like this and at night I still look the same. I block him from every connection I could so that he cant see that im trying to do reaching about his ways with me. And he cant handle it. The monster chat to every woman making me bad let me feel like im the one that treat him bad. I download everything and I record him I should get enough info about him. Cause he will have his ways to make everybody believe him. And I chat to the woman telling them how he really treat me and they cant believe it. And he gets so mad cause that woman dont chat after that to him again. I told him one night in last week ill be going out whooooooo wtf did I do I should hear how boys will have sex with me and use me. And leave me and that im only good for they needs. All sort of stories. I have notice that the monster has his ways in front of our baby when he talk to our son he wont mention me as go to your mommy or take him mommy he will say go to that thing. I mention him ones that when your baby should get hurt pick him up hold him tight to your chest tell him everything will be ohk. Kiss his forehead. But the monster cant do it. But he brag about our son to others. I thought its because he is mad at me that he also take or ignore his son. But it happen to much. I know when someone tells you that you not man enough to be a father that it will hurt but with this monster not even sure if he feels anything. he also get angry when our baby are to attached to me. Its like he ignore a grown person. I always beg and cry to him to give attention to our son but no hell no that means nothing. I told him on friday evening that im done with this relationship and cant handle this unbearably feelings im moving out. The next morning the doors are locked. Ive learn to keep my mouth cause he will be having a plan to use it. He is killing my soul. Why cant people see him for who he is.

    Like

    • One of the essential things to do when dealing with a narcissist and how a relationship with a narcissist affects us is to use logic. Narcissists rely on us getting caught up in petty arguments, insignificant details, complications, distracted by the confusion and drama which they create, defending ourselves against ridiculous accusations (which are often them accusing us of what they’ve been doing), fighting endless battles trying to win some imaginary trophy which isn’t worth the effort. Their nonsense twists us up in knots of crazy.

      Try to avoid playing games with him – this will keep you trapped in his games even if you score a win every now and then. Narcissists play games on a constant basis. They thrive on games.

      Other people will see whatever they want to see – trying to get them to see what you see will exhaust your energy. Some of the people you’ve spoken to have taken what you’ve said about him on board, enough for it to annoy him and derail his games. This hasn’t really satisfied you or served the purpose which you’d hoped it would.

      I suspect you’re hoping to change him into who you want him to be, who he perhaps seemed to be when you first met him and fell for him, and if he is a narcissist that’s never going to happen. If he’s a narcissist things will only get worse especially now that the two of you are in open war with each other. And now that you have a child, your child will become a pawn in the battles between the two of you.

      If he is not who you need or want him to be for you, and everything about him makes you see him as a monster then your decision to end the relationship and move out seems to be the most logical. He won’t let you go easily, and he will play games with you – you need to stay focused, use logic, and make sure that you have your move out planned in a practical manner, incorporating his possible reactions, things like him locking the doors, into it.

      If he’s the sort of person who will try to stop you from leaving then leave when he can’t stop you. Don’t warn him beforehand, just do it. Get a friend to help you. Have a safe place to go. Make sure that you have support when dealing with him. Contact the authorities if need be.

      There is advice online for how to leave an abuser/controlling partner and create an Exit Strategy and Safety Plan –

      http://www.healthyplace.com/blogs/verbalabuseinrelationships/2011/05/develop-an-exit-strategy-how-to-stop-verbal-abuse-part-5/

      http://www.reducingtherisk.org.uk/cms/content/safety-planning

      You might find this blog of interest as I think you may be from the same part of the world – http://survivednarc.com/

      Focus on your well being and that of your child, and take care of yourself.

      Like

  26. I met a guy when I was 35 and just split up from my daughters father my first boyfriend. There was no cheating or bad things just grew apart. The new guy was recently broke up from a 5 years. I had been single for 2,years when I met him. And very naive. I was studying nursing and living alone with my daughter. When I met the new guy he was nice and didn’t come on too strong ! After we slept together after few mths, he started talking bout his ex comparing me too her, I started to feel insecure I had never had to deal with exs before . I started looking at her social media and built a picture of perfection to her. He stated insulting me being cruel but I was addicted to being accepted by this man , he was do crule he ask me to be his gf when I said yes, he said well I don’t want that , and went in s bitter rage about his exs and women ! I know I shud have got out as he didn’t take me out text weekends and go hot and cold with me! I was so vulnerable to him ! Anyways things got weird I decided to walk away and no contact ! He started seeing a girl who stalked me who abused her position in work to come to my house and have one to one conversation about men and him !! He eventually told me he she did this! He constantly fake Profiles driving past work my home and if I went out turn up ! I felt I was being constantly watched ! He did go back to his ex and moved in with her ! He then cheated on her and sent her the video to watch! She left and I moved house changed car new job ! This was 1 year no contact and he moved on the same street as me ! I become very withdrawn because his he had been I feel like ppl constantly watching me ! Stupid enough he bumped into me started talking and he felt sorry how he was with me so stated seeing him again !! Omg after the novelty wore off I wasn’t allowed to hug him ! Sex was cold ! He would tell me to met someone else he doesn’t care bout me ! Compare me to his ex who now is dating a women and I see her she was not the perfect as he made out ! He then started telling me bout girl interested in him ! Texting out of the blue ! I was cold with him out put my walls up ! But inside I was hurting rejection anxiety ! I’m slim keep fit gym women look after my self don’t smoke so drugs good job nice car heart of gold ! So not speak or put myself out there because don’t trust anyone just work loads ! He wud put me down never tell me I looked nice when j made effort and never cuddle me I felt so unworthy of him ! I walked away he text few times I closed Facebook. Changed my number and kept my self busy ! I travelled to Asia with the girls enlarged my boobs got in best shape of my life got promotion at work and a year on ! He met someone else had an affair with married women they got caught she is a big girl like his ex doesn’t do much with herself like the ex the opposite of me ! He is off social media but she is on it ! I found out who she was Becsusr I kept bumping into her she wud give me dirty looks ! Then it popped up on Twitter she posted a pic of him her to my friend Twitter knowing if be told ! I don’t care the fact she had to do this shows he does to get what he did to me ! I don’t feel as if he’s is stalking me like he use to ! But weird why all his girls conr in to my life when I’m so private ! Anyway I feel free happy and have remained single to heal from the damage he did ! It went in for 5 years and never got to be his girlfriend ! But I’m shining like s dimiond ! And feel sorry for other girl he mets the poor things ! Do you think he is s narrcassist or just a insecure rebound guy ? 😀

    Like

    • Thank you for sharing 🙂

      From the way that you’ve described him and the things that he did he does sound very narcissistic and may be a narcissist. But what he is or isn’t doesn’t really matter anymore, what matters is that he’s out of your life for good and you’re taking care of yourself.

      Consider your experience with him as part of the many lessons life teaches us about being human. You met during a vulnerable time for you and got caught up in a complex relationship drama. You’ve learned from that experience and have moved on to better things.

      Sometimes we get caught up in the stories of others, and may act out of character while we’re caught up in their story. Hopefully we come out stronger and wiser.

      Take care and best wishes for the future!

      Like

  27. Bull! I am sooo tired of hearing that the best revenge is living well. That would be fine if you could actually get away from this psycho. My husbands ex and the mother of his son has made it her priority to destroy him. She doesn’t care who she hurts in the process including their son. According to her Everything wrong in her life is his fault. We have been stalked by her for years. It’s never ending. So what Real advise can you offer for putting a stop to the abuse?

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    • Thank you for sharing 🙂

      A narcissist in a nutshell considers everything to be everyone else’s fault – the problem is you and not them. You’re the one with the personality disorder, not them (many narcissists think everyone else has NPD and are often the first to label others a ‘narcissist’ especially nowadays since this accusation became a trendy hot topic). They’re good, you’re bad. They’re perfect and all the fault and flaws lie with you and everyone else. They always right and everyone else is always wrong.

      They project/transfer all their problems onto others (usually their nearest and dearest or close allies of their nearest and dearest) and make it their mission in life to rid the world (which revolves around them) of problems like that.

      They see themselves as the heroes in the story while everyone else is the villain – they’re the villain who thinks they’re the hero.

      They don’t ‘care’ who they hurt because no one hurts as much as they do and never will – their pain is what drives them to inflict pain on everyone else. They are certain that others are the ones who don’t ‘care’ which makes them all the more vicious in their tactics and attacks. A large part of the pain they inflict is an attempt to get others to feel their pain.

      They’re passing their wound on to you. The wound is what made them narcissistic and continues to hurt them and hurt you through them. Reacting to what they do to you continues the story they’re already involved in and writing – you will never outwit them in this scenario because they’re writing the script and you need them to create a drama to which to react to – and they tend to already have many alternatives to how to deal with your optional reactions to their pokes and prods.

      For every poke you score with them they have a poke-back which will irritate and hurt you more than you’ll ever hurt them – their abuse thrives on the pain you inflict (because it’s born of the pain they inflict and thus it is their homeland).

      They sometimes are under the illusion that fighting you is the righteous way for them to heal what ails them, but of course fighting you only makes things worse for them and for you. The more they hurt you the more you want to hurt them back, the more you hurt them back the more they want to hurt you and so on and so on into infinity and beyond.

      Narcissists will keep going long after you’ve been worn down to a nub – they never tire of the game of revenge, it fuels them (or in narc-speak it gives them narc-supply), hence the reason why I went with ‘living well is the best revenge’. I get why you don’t like that concept. I’ve been through periods of thinking it was bull too. It depends on how you interpret it and what parameters you use for ‘living well’.

      “Living well’ when a narcissist is involved in the scenario of your life is not the same as living well by ideal life without narcissists standards. Living well simply means you’re not getting caught up in one of their many endless dramas and living your life based on their cues and provocations. It means you’re in control of your life rather than being controlled by them. You pause before you deal with them and their BS, and take stock of what is actually transpiring before ‘reacting’ and maybe stop yourself from ‘reacting’ to their provocation.

      I grew up with narcissists and watched them inflict their shit on others, as well as on me. They are the energiser bunny when it comes to keeping on keeping on through thick and thin. They can make a drama out of a peanut butter and jelly sandwich and turn it into a crime which you committed against them and they can get people to back them up (in narc speak these people are known sometimes as ‘flying monkeys’) while you’re still reeling from the absurdity of it.

      When it comes to revenge – narcissists excel at this and make it their life mission while telling themselves another story entirely which makes them the hero against the villains. Their revenge isn’t ‘revenge’ it’s retribution against oppressors and abusers. They can flip anything around and make their version stick. They can make you out to be crazy while being they’re insane btu can make themselves seem sane.

      Think you’ve won? Think again if a narcissist is part of the equation. They have far more stamina for ‘winning’ than you have or ever will unless you happen to be a narcissist too then the odds are 50/50.

      Your husband is irrevocably tied to his ex through his son – she’s not going anywhere and the more you try to fight her, the more she’ll use her and your husband’s son to ‘win’ against you and your husband. Narcissists consider their children to be their property and therefore can use them however they like – if the son is the quickest way for your husband’s ex to get to your ex and turn the screw then that’s the way she’s going to go. But she’ll make things out to appear as though she’s a wonderful mother who cares about her son – and her son if he is in her custody more than he is in your husbands will have no choice but to back her version of the story up because if he doesn’t he’ll pay for it and if you think the hell she puts you through is bad try being her child.

      This site – http://www.narcissisticmother.com/ – explains what it is like to have a narcissist for a mother.

      Chances are you and your husband feel trapped in what you can do against her because you care for the welfare of his son and know she will take anything which you do to her out on his son (narcs are particularly prone to using ‘parental alienation’ in creative ways, especially when they feel hurt – she will make her son pay for any crimes she perceives his father has done against her, and pay everyone back through alienating them from each other so they can’t gang up against her) – and she will see this as a weakness to use against you. You won’t hurt her as long as she uses her son as a shield.

      So, what are your options?

      They are limited if you actually care about your husband’s son (at least until he is of age to get himself free, and children of narcissists are never allowed to grow up, ‘come of age’ or become independent from their narc parent as their narc parent has needs which their child is permanently required to fulfill – it takes an enormous amount of effort on the part of a narc’s child to get themselves free from their narc parent) – and she will use this to keep you in her grasp and involved in her drama.

      You can’t ‘put a stop’ to the abuse if you’re dealing with a ‘real’ narcissist because the abuse is a part of who they are and how they are – part of that includes them viewing you (or in this case your husband) as being the ‘real’ abuser.

      There is, as far as I know, no ‘miracle cure’ to change a narcissist into not a narcissist for your sake.

      However you can deal with them in a manner which dulls the sharp edges of their behaviour – but this requires understanding a narcissist inside and out, and understanding your particular narcissist in a way which you’d probably not want to understand them.

      If you’re calling ‘bull’ on the concept of ‘living well being the best revenge’ and introducing yourself to me with your first words being ‘Bull!’ then I would hazard a guess you’re not in that place where you need to be to turn the tables on your narcissist – you need to be detached in a way which is challenging for a human to be detached. You sound as though you’re in the ‘anger’ phase of dealing with a narcissist and that phase can go on for a long time and cloud judgment in a manner which tends to benefit the narcissist more than it does you.

      Being angry at a narcissist can be a useful thing but it can also handicap us if we’re not in control of our anger – anger is second nature to them, they often thrive on us hating them and sometimes prefer our anger and our hate towards them than love and other lighter feelings and emotions. They know anger better than you do – it drives and fuels them – and if they know it, then they know how to use it against you. They’ve been angry far longer than you have.

      What they don’t know can be used against them and one of the things they don’t know is how to ‘live well’ – in other words how to enjoy life in simple ways because everything they touch becomes a complicated mess which hurts and causes pain for everyone.

      You can’t stop your narcissist from doing what she is doing – this would require being able to control another human being and… that’s something which narcissists are attempting to do with you with their ‘abuse’. As you can attest, someone trying to control you does not lead to you willingly accepting being controlled. So your narcissist will not acquiesce to you controlling them which is the main way to stop them from being as they are and doing what they are doing.

      Most posts about narcissists and how to deal with them are hit and miss (including mine) because each narcissist is different and the factors of each particular scenario, dynamic and story are different. You are different from everyone else dealing with a narcissist. So what works for one person may not work for you for many reasons.

      The best advice I’ve come across as to how to ‘talk’ to a narcissist is this one – http://www.psytalk.info/articles/narcissist.html – if you want a narcissist to do something then it has to be in their best interest to do it and they have to come out of it smelling of roses.

      The most comprehensive list of narc traits and behaviours (with resources) is this one – http://outofthefog.website/personality-disorders-1/2015/12/6/narcissistic-personality-disorder-npd

      The most in depth look into the ‘wound’ which drives and motivates a narcissist is this one – http://energeticsinstitute.com.au/narcissism/

      Best blog about narcissists is this one – http://n-continuum.blogspot.co.uk/

      But none of these offer the magic bullet which you’re looking for to kill your narcissist problems and end your period in narc hell.

      Narc 101 is – once your narc has settled in they’re nigh on impossible to get out of your life. In your case a child connects you – and you’ll be connected to your narc for life (or in your case as long as you’re with your husband as he is connected to that child’s mother through his son for life). Your husband is the one who has to figure out how to deal with his ex as he is her target. You can’t fight this battle for him.

      If you want ‘real’ advice then you need to stop looking online for answers as posts like mine are based on the story of others and not your story, and find someone in your real life to give you some advice which suits your real life situation.

      Bets wishes!

      Like

  28. I have quite a sad story for a 20 year old girl. I met a narcissist and he took my virginity.

    I am a med student and live with 4 other classmates. So we are classmates as well as flatmates. Two of my flatmates liked me, but I wasn’t interested at first. The one I tought was attractive was a player, so I I wasn’t into the idea fo dating him. We lived together for 2 years. The first year, we were good friends and he told me all about his conquests, He really treated girls like shit… scumbag narcissist typical behavior, but we were good friends. I always made jokes about what a prick he is with girls he dated or slept with. The second year he started changing, saying he’s looking for something more serious, saying he’s done fooling around and all… months passed by and one night we saw a movie together in his room and we ended up cuddling. It happened many nights on a row. I was thinking that maybee he really changed, it made me feel special.

    Then one night things got more sexual, but we didn’t sleep together, the following morning I told him we had to stop, it wasn’t a good idea since we were flatmates and it might ruin our friendship, and the summer was in a week, we wouldn’t be able to see each other anyways.. he said he cared for me and that he really wanted to make things work, giving examples on how some couples orkout as flatmates, hwo we could see each other in holidays by traveling, he was persistant. I gave in. During the whole time I asked to keep “us” a secret since we didn’t make it official and our classmates knowing about it would ruin the whole thing. He told practicly the whole college about us. I was angry at first but also taught that it might mean he’s serious about us.

    Then we had holidays, he went back home in another state. I stayed in the same flat we were at. we kept talking and texting then he invited me at his place (in one of his text he refered to me as his girlfriend). I went, had a 10hour train ride. we slep together, I was a virgin, he was my first guy. By the way, he kissed me when I arrived, and didn’t eaven kiss me goodbye, his behavior just changed completly the moment he deflowered me. when I came back home, I realised I packed an underwear that wasn’t mine, which was under the bed, since it was dark I didn’t realise it untill I unpacked ounce back home. When I sent him a text to confront him about the matter, he told stupid lies, said he didn’t cheat on me. I told him we were done. I am certain he slept on a girl but I won’t list all the reasons now… he called, said he never cheated on me, that I was mistaken. I said “ok then I believe you” (I just want to slap my naive old me now..) then he said that eaven if he cheated, it wouldn’t really be cheating since we weren’t really together. he then said we had to take a break during holidays because we’re far from each other (I told him before that we shouldn’t be together because of that exact reason and he said we could work it out…) and he then said: “were you hurt when finding the underwear?” I said “no” he replied “yes”, me “no”, then I said, “ok a bit” and I just felt that he was satisfied when knowing he hurt me, something about his voice tone.

    I was torn but didn’t want to show that I was hurt, I said ok, but don’t expect us to be back together after holidays if I find anyone better (when we’re back home after holidays…) and hang off. He sent a text saying he hoped I wouldn’t meet anyone the summer cause he cared about me, and he hopes he can see me on a weekend on July. told him it better not to see each other at all untill spetember.. I thing I never went through anything that difficult. I was a high value girl at my college, very respected,top student, partiime model, being asked out by many guys.. and I gave up my virtue to a worthless c*** because I was too naive and trusted him, I didn’t have any experience with guys… The worst part is that I can’t take my first time back. It’s something that mattered to me and that was why I waited for so long.

    I feel horrible, I will be back in the flat next week, I will see him after 2 months, and I have no idea on how to deal with all of that. I would just like to hurt him just like he did to me, and get back at him. I wouldn’t stand seing another girl being hurt the same way I was because of him as well. Also, he bragged to mutual friends about f****** me, said personal details…

    Like

    • Thank you for sharing 🙂

      When dealing with someone who is either a narcissist or very narcissistic it’s important to keep a cool and calm head. Be logical and try not to complicate matters for yourself. This can be difficult if you’re heart is hurting and your emotions and feelings are overwhelming you.

      To prepare for seeing him again I would recommend that you go over your story with yourself and reclaim the power which you’ve given to him back as your own. Change the way you’re telling the story to yourself and it will change how you perceive him. At the moment the way you’re telling it gives him all the power and leaves you feeling powerless – when we feel powerless we tend to want to lash out at the person who has the power. He doesn’t actually have the power and you are not powerless.

      For instance – you say “he took my virginity” but he didn’t ‘take it’ you decided to ‘give it’ to him. You traveled all the way across country to give him your virginity. You chose him as the person you wanted to have your first sexual experience with. You knew him well before you made your choice, you knew what he was like, he shared who he was and how he was with you, he told you how he saw women and having sex with them. You hoped that he’d be different with you, and that he’d somehow ‘changed’. He behaved towards you the same way he has behaved towards all his other romantic conquests. I reckon that part of the reason that you ‘feel horrible’ is due to self-recrimination. You knew what he was like and you chose to ignore that, and now you’re angry at yourself for giving him something which was very precious and important to you. And you’re angry at him for not appreciating the valuable gift you gave him.

      As much as it may hurt to realise that the person who you chose to have your first sexual experience with turned out to be immature and unworthy of the experience – you need to understand why you chose him and also ask yourself if perhaps what now seems like a bad choice was actually a good one.

      For many women the first time is invariably a disappointment, perhaps because we expect too much from it and romanticise it to an unrealistic point. Psychologically it can be confusing and disorienting, especially if you grew up in a social environment which places more value on a virgin than it does on a woman who is no longer a virgin.

      A very important thing to make clear to yourself is that you are still exactly who you were before you gave up your virginity – except you have more personal experience knowledge. If you need to see it as having changed you then see it as you having crossed the threshold from ‘girl’ into ‘woman’.

      You are still all of this – “I was a high value girl at my college, very respected,top student, partiime model, being asked out by many guys.” – there is no ‘was’ about it. This experience has taken nothing away from you, it has given more to you. Make this have value for you and add value to you, rather than making it into something which takes value away from you.

      See your own power in your story and change your perspective of how things unfolded – this will affect how things continue to unfold.

      I’m sure that the other women he has played ‘the player’ with wanted to hurt him as he had hurt them, and they may have tried, he may have even told you about them trying to hurt him if he even noticed their attempts to do so, and he seems to have learned nothing from it, he just keeps playing the same game, making the same mistakes and is basically really naive, immature and incapable of dealing with the opposite sex in a respectful manner. The way he is, these games he plays, is going to eventually hurt him far more than anything you or anyone else do to him. The consequences of his actions will catch up to him. That’s his problem, story and responsibility.

      Don’t worry about him bragging to mutual friends about him having sex with you. You may have wanted to keep things private and a secret, but when you do something which involves someone else you can’t control how they will handle what happened – it’s obviously a big deal for him and he wants to shout it from the rooftops, show off that he managed to win the attention and affection of a woman who all the guys fancy. You have nothing to be embarrassed or ashamed about.

      Best way of handling seeing him is to treat him with calm indifference – especially if he expects a drama from you. If you need to talk to him about what happened, then do so the way you used to talk to him when you were just friends – tell him calmly and clearly exactly how you feel and think, but keep it simple guys find the way women communicate to be too verbose thus confusing and they can only absorb so many words before they switch off and stop listening or hearing anything you say.

      Treat yourself with respect and let this sad story become a part of the narrative of your life which inspires you rather than brings you down. You are a woman now, you have no time for boys like him anymore 😉

      Like

  29. I met my ex at work. I still have to work and see him and next week will be the first time I go back since our break up. I shared in the last 3 years my most vulnerable issues with him and he knows my weaknesses. Throughout our relationship there we rules implemented for pretty much anything. I “broke” the rules there would be several days of silent treatments, physical and verbal abuse. I once broke the no lipstick rule and wore a Chapstick with a light colored hue, I use to wear red lipsticks when we met, and I was accuse of being a slut. Apparently I was asking for attention and opening myself to men. He said “if I knew you were this much of a whore I would have never started dating you…what a waste of my time”. I would argue with him saying it was just Chapstick and his reply would be “well, Chapstick is not much of a hard rule to follow, right?” He claimed he was just looking out for me and protecting me from the perverts, we work with a majority of males. He loved me and I would apologize.

    I’ve done a lot of reading and thru my work I was able to get instant professional therapy, the therapist labeled him as a Narcissit abuser based on our session. I decided to seek help after last week, he punched me in the chest to get out of his car. He was upset at me because I didn’t get in his car fast enough on our way home and started driving, dragging my leg a few feet before I was able to pull it in and close the door. What set him off? I was walking down the hall at work and I looked into the sups office as I passed. Nothing more nothing less. Just looked in….he was in the corner hiding, he was infuriated that I didn’t follow the simple rules and if I couldn’t follow or to stupid to understand the small rules I was unable to follow the big rules and probably being a pig behind his back.

    I haven’t talked to him since. I’m done. He has texted me saying he loves me but is very disappointed in me. I didn’t reply back. My family and friends are aware of his sickness and I needed to be accountable for my choices.

    When I researched what the therapist labeled him as I felt that everything I read was written about us, especially the gasligting, I really though I was losing my mind, second guessing everything, My memory suffered as well, I couldn’t tell how much time passed or recall the day of the week. I missed appointments and birthdays. I went to the dr to get checked out because I was getting sick physically, body aches and so stressed out after a fight that my body limbs would go numb. I would become paralyzed for a short second unable to move. I didn’t link it together. I just thought I was getting ill.

    So now that I know what happened to me. I’m unsure how to continue working with him. My family told me to go back to work and be the person I was before he manipulated me. Fix my hair, put on my red lipstick and be social as I was before. The thing is I’m worried about retaliation and that’s how I got to your site, looking up “will a narcissist retaliate?”

    I want him to know that he no longer has control over me but I also don’t want to infuriate him. He was very private and no one at work knew of my abuse. He had another persona and is liked very much by all. I was considered one of the lucky ones to have snagged myself one of the good ones.

    Any advice? Lipstick or no lipstick?

    Like

    • Thank you for sharing 🙂

      You’re in a delicate and complicated situation.

      Dating a work colleague can make the workplace an awkward environment if the relationship ends, even if it ends well and both people choose to mutually break up it can create a certain discomfort. If it ends badly it can make the workplace a minefield for both people. If the relationship is with someone who doesn’t have a personality disorder then the difficulties can be managed in a logical and mature manner between adults, however if the other person has a personality disorder then their disorder will cause problems in ways that can’t always be predicted or managed in a logical and mature manner.

      If the person with the disorder is the one who ended the relationship this can make the situation less problematic because they’re getting their way, doing what they want, writing the narrative which includes them choosing to move on from you. They are in control and as long as they don’t perceive you as a threat to their control, their narrative, their persona, etc, they’ll most likely just ignore you.

      If you are the one who ended the relationship with the person with the disorder the rejection and everything it means for them and their self image can trigger all sorts of vindictive, petty, and intensely difficult behaviour which will disrupt the work environment for you.

      One of the areas of concern in your situation is that your ex does not seem to see himself as an ex – his text saying that he loves you shows that he still sees the relationship as ongoing. If he still sees the two of you as being in a relationship then when you go back to work you have far more to worry about then whether to wear lipstick or not – and the lipstick issue seems to be a big trigger for him so I’m not treating the wearing or not of it lightly. If you don’t wear lipstick then that will confirm for him that you are indeed still in a relationship as this shows adherence on your part to his rules. If you do wear lipstick this will be a visible public slap in the face to him and if he still sees you as being a couple it could be an intense shock to his system and version of reality.

      From your description of him he sounds like a ‘Control Freak’ – I would suggest that you read up on this particular personality type, using ‘control freak’ as your search criteria rather than just using ‘narcissist’ as this will yield results that will be more pertinent to the situation.

      This is a good article on Control Freaks and how to deal with them – http://thebusinessmd.blogspot.co.uk/2011/08/cut-strings-with-control-freak-in-your.html – it gives a lot of information about what motivates a control freak – and knowing what’s going on inside of the mind of your ex will be important for any strategy you decide to use to deal with him.

      An excerpt from the article:

      “The control freak has a lot at stake, if you really think about it through their eyes. Remember when you have held a conversation or attempted engage them in some way, if you paid attention to their physiology, you would have noticed a shift in their physical appearance. This is because their emotional stakes involve protecting/defending their own identity and sense of well-being. Control gives them the temporary illusion of calmness. When they believe they are dominant, you can watch the tension leaking from them. The control freak is very alarmed and fear driven. Part of their strategy is to induce that fear in you with the indirect threat of loss. Since the emotional stakes are so high for them, they need to assert themselves with you so they do not feel so helpless. To surrender control is the same as being victimized and overwhelmed. When a control freak cannot control, they go through a series of rapid phases. First they become angry and agitated, then they become panicky and apprehensive, then they become agitated and threatening, and then they lapse into depression and despair. In layman terms, they Freak Out.”

      While it is healthy for you to be done with him – if you haven’t clarified with him that the relationship is over and given him the opportunity and time to process this information then you may find that your first interaction with him could cause the very scenario which you would like to avoid.

      I would suggest discussing this with your therapist and getting advice from them as to how to officially break up with your ex in a way that he will understand and accept. It will need to be done respectfully towards him and preferably before you go back to work as he will be placed on the spot at work and for him there will be the added pressure of other work colleagues ‘watching’ him and ‘witnessing’ you breaking up with him which will distress him greatly. It will also need to be done in a safe way for you as he is prone to violence and you do not want to give him news which he does not want to hear without support and back up for you.

      Ideally with a narcissist, especially one who is a violent control freak, when you want to break up with them you should get them to break up with you, or find a way to make you breaking up with them be in their best interest, for their benefit and own good, and for it to be their idea.

      For instance with this man you would use the fact that you’re constantly ‘disappointing’ him, that you’re a ‘disappointment’ to him, unable to follow his rules, basically completely unworthy of him, as reasons why you have to bow out of the relationship – you’re not ‘good enough’ or ‘worthy enough’ for him and never will be. He deserves better. This plays to the vanities of a narcissist, it strokes their ego, and can override their anxiety and fears which are the main problem when dealing with them. Narcissists do not under any circumstances like being rejected – it taps into their wound which often includes a terror of being abandoned.

      But doing this can be tricky especially if they are attached to you and don’t want to let you go. It requires manipulating them and being proficient in manipulation and comfortable and confident using manipulative tactics – which are described in books like The Art of War by Sun Tzu, The 48 Laws of Power by Robert Greene.

      The fact that you have shared your ‘vulnerabilities and weaknesses’ with this man is not as problematic as it may seem – these could actually be used by you to gain an advantage, restore the balance of power, and cut him off at the pass, but to do that you need to see your vulnerable issues and weaknesses as sources of strength. You need to be okay with them existing and be accepting of them, if you’re afraid of them then his knowing them will be a source of fear for you which will undermine your confidence in handling him and anything he does. He will use them against you – all narcissists do. How he will use them depends on his particular narcissistic wound. Narcissists tend to hit others where they hurt the most – they do to you what they’re most afraid of having done to them, or what they hate the most when others do it to them. It’s up to you to turn take the sting out of your own issues so that when he does use them against you they won’t hurt you in a manner which gives him control and power over you.

      Will he retaliate? – going by what you’ve shared of your relationship he is prone to retaliation for perceived slights. Narcissists do not tend to vary from their established patterns. If he lashes out when you break his rules, he’ll lash out when you ‘break his heart’ and he’ll feel perfectly justified as he always does in lashing out at you. His goal will be to regain the control he had over you, and to have you apologise for all the wrong you’ve done to him. He may even want to crush you if he sees no way of regaining the relationship he had with you on his terms. He may also want to get back at you before you do anything to hurt him and his reputation.

      He will never see the wrong he does to you as his narrative writes that as right and righteous behaviour. Someone who thinks that it is totally acceptable, verging on noble for a noble cause, to call their girlfriend a ‘slut’ and a ‘whore’ while claiming that this is for your own good and they are making you into a better person because they ‘love you’ is completely and stubbornly blind to their faults and flaws. The problem is always everyone else – they’re perfect. The control freak behaviour aims to keep their version of reality intact for them – the slightest threat to it sends them into a tailspin.

      Chances are that he may have shared stories about his previous relationships – those stories will give you clues as to how he behaves in the aftermath of a relationship ending – however he may have omitted pertinent details and those previous relationships which made him look bad. Also worth recalling is how he has behaved towards anyone at work or socially who has ‘done him wrong’.

      Bottom line – Take your worries very seriously and consult your therapist on the best way to deal with this before you have to deal with it.

      Prepare for the worst – hoping for the best without preparing for the worst is a bad idea when dealing with a narcissist.

      Make sure this man knows that you are no longer a couple before you return to work – how he reacts to the news will give you added information.

      If you are worried about his violence escalating and fear for your physical safety, then you need to take precautions – you might want to consult with an expert on leaving an abusive partner, contact a helpline or support group which deals with this to get advice.

      It might also be advisable to contact your workplace and inform them of the situation – however this could aggravate matters. It might be worth holding back on that and seeing how things play out once you’re back at work. He might not cause problems for you, but if he does you will need to deal with it.

      While your family is obviously being supportive and are right to encourage you to take back your life and regain your control – you are not the same person that you were before you entered a relationship with this man and you can’t go back to the way things were before, not just because this experience has changed you but also because you have to factor him into the scenario and he may not allow for you to resume your life without and before him.

      Please take good care of yourself and take your concerns seriously.

      Like

      • Thank you for responding. I thought about what you said about him not knowing we were broken up based on his last text and that sounded like him. So, I sent him a text telling him in a positive way about the breakup and making the idea his….like you deserve better and it’s me not you..turns out we weren’t broken up. He told me he would give me another chance though….to be respectful and treat him better and not such a whore. I kept the conversation peaceful and kept telling him he was right and I was no good. In the end he said I cut my own throat and he was tired of my games anyways but if I ever changed my mind he would concider taking me back so as long as i got my shit straight.

        I feel a little bit relieved because I found the courage to not soak up his bs. He asked me if I was sure and that he didn’t mean certain things. When I asked him about the Punching and dragging my foot and the ice bag he threw at me at work all in the same day…he replied I was crazy, he admitted none of it said I was overreacting and it was all in my fat head. Than like he would always do, he changed the subject.

        I have to admit I was close to going back. I don’t know why I would even consider even thinking about it but he has a hold on me I can’t explain. I think to myself well maybe I am overreacting? I know the answer is to stay away but why is it so hard knowing it was so wrong?

        Like

        • Some of the most healing moments after being involved with a narcissist are those where you are forced to see or speak to them and you realise that they no longer have the impact upon you that they used to have – in those moments you get to see them differently, you see that they don’t have the power over you that they used to have, and you see yourself as stronger, wiser and freer.

          RE: Being close to going back to him

          You might find this article of interest – https://selfcarehaven.wordpress.com/2015/04/27/your-brain-on-love-and-the-narcissist-the-addiction-to-bonding-with-our-abusers/ – it discusses the ‘addiction to a narcissist’ and its possible causes.

          An excerpt from the article:

          “Many survivors of narcissistic abuse are confounded by the addiction they feel to the narcissist, long after the abusive relationship took a toll on their physical, mental, and emotional well-being. Make no mistake: recovery from an abusive relationship can be very similar to withdrawal from drug addiction due to the biochemical bonds we may develop with our toxic ex-partners.

          Understanding why we are addicted permits us recognize that our addiction is not about the merits of the narcissist, but rather the nature and severity of the trauma we’ve experienced.”

          You sound as though you’re a logical and level-headed person, and this relationship started out in a manner which was logical but then devolved into a confusing and complicated experience which left your mind reeling. An intelligent mind when faced with something which confuses it, which it can’t explain, seeks to make sense of things, find reasons, and may underplay the events.

          Narcissists often get away with what they do to us because we make excuses for them and/or blame ourselves due to ‘cognitive dissonance’. We doubt our own perception because what we perceive seems so over the top, crazy, it just doesn’t make sense. The story seems like a foreign film, an episode of Twin Peaks, a far-fetched romance novel. Our mind cannot compute or process what has happened to us, what the narcissist does, says, and who they are. We can’t believe that a person we once thought was normal could be so utterly insane. Maybe we’re the ones who are insane – this is a common thought for those who have PTSD from narcissistic abuse. They encourage us to see ourselves as the insane one, we’re imagining everything they did or said to us, we’re ‘overreacting’, being overly dramatic, we’ve got them all wrong, we’re wrong about everything, we’re wrong in the head.

          They don’t have self-doubt, not the way that we do, and their conviction that they’re fine and we’re crazy makes us doubt ourselves… which leads us further down the path of explaining away what they do to us as somehow being our fault, maybe they’re right and we imagined it all, maybe we’re making a fuss about nothing.

          But we know the truth… it’s just that the truth is really difficult to absorb because it’s a knotty mess. It doesn’t make sense and we long for things to make sense again.

          Bottom line – he’s a violent abuser, physically, mentally and emotionally. What he’s done to you is horrific – no one has the right to do that to anyone.

          Never forget that. Those moments when you’re wondering if perhaps you ‘overreacted’… remind yourself of the scene from the moving car. Frankly ‘overreacting’ to that is the right reaction to have. What he did was insane.

          It will take you awhile to process everything that has happened, give yourself the time and space to do that. Don’t judge yourself, be gentle with yourself – treat yourself as you would a friend who came to you and shared this experience with you. Don’t worry about still finding him attractive, still having feelings for him. The heart takes longer than the mind to understand that someone isn’t who you thought and felt that they were, and it takes the mind awhile to deal with that.

          Any questions which come up while processing things – explore them as you are doing as the aftermath of a relationship with a narcissist is a great time to get to know yourself deeply and discover the world within you.

          Like

        • I know the “hold” you mentioned. It’s impossible to relay to others why we want them back at times, when clearly they are uncaring and selfish. Please be very careful! He sounds dangerous, not just mean and controlling. Sending healing thoughts your way!

          Like

  30. I met a horrific narc on pof 12/15. My first clue that he was abnormal was 3 weeks later, on Christmas. He called me and I mentioned I was having difficulty finding a restaurant that was open. Although I was just minutes from his area, he didn’t invite me over, even for a drink. Later that night, he called to say he cooked a 18 lb turkey for himself and two roommates!

    In several months of dating, he never once let me inside his home, even when I had to drive him home once! Although he does own it (I checked). We had to use motels! No, he is not married (I checked). I believe he doesn’t bring unimportant dates like me to his precious home since he’s a player and to avoid being hunted down by wronged women.

    He asked to be “exclusive boyfriend and girlfriend” early on, yet when I physically confirmed he lied to me about cheating with a friend (she admitted it), he claimed he didn’t realize we were a couple! (Then why lie?). He had a million excuses and all the right words, but no actions (such as inviting me to his house when we fought about it). When I had to put my sweet cat to sleep after 20 years, having mentioned her several times, his text said, “Sorry about your DOG dying”!

    He gave me nothing for any holiday, ignored New Year’s Eve (saying he had to work on a friend’s car), Valentine’s day (after I told him it’s my favorite holiday), and forgot my birthday by calling a day late and doing nothing for it anyway. Although he is a mechanic, and he noticed I had an ongoing car problem, he never offered to fix it. After I paid another mechanic to fix the simple issue, he said “You could have paid me the $300 and I would have done it”! This after all the times I paid for nice restaurants or hotels! He claimed constantly to have no money, but isn’t poor, has a good job and owns a $2,000,000 house (I verified it). Good riddance to these uncaring, cold excuses for humans. They will use you, your money, your emotion, and never be there for you!

    Like

    • Did he text you like 50 times a day but not ask to see you? That’s a common control tactic. Or, say “I miss you”, yet he’s the one not making any effort to see you, despite living near? That’s what mine did! Wasn’t into me enough to see me more than twice a month, but blew up if I suggested we date others.

      Like

  31. I have an ex-N that broke it off with me 4 months ago. Put all the blame in my lap when he came face to face. The relationship was a train wreck after 3 minths of dating. Promises not kept, excessive lying, no respect for my bounderies, manipulating, story telling instead of truth (when i knew better), mean texting etc… i have a business fb and i just started it with just a small # of ppl. But i noticed very late hrs that my page was being viewed for the exact time we split til now. Everyday! I have also spied him driving past my house 4 times now too. He is trying to be sneaky about it but he is the one that dumped his faults in my lap and ended it. So why does he do this? I have in return enjoyed the bliss of having the toxic relationship done. But a small part of me misses it and i have to think and remind myself real hard what an ass he was to me.

    Like

    • Thank you for sharing 🙂

      Just as you miss it, he misses it – your relationship. What you had together. That particular chemistry, pheromones and combination of two individuals – toxic or not.

      Human nature tends to find it hard to break an attachment once formed even if you’re the one who made the break for reasons that made sense at the time and still may make sense.

      Missing him or what you had with him may last for awhile, and you’ll have to keep reminding yourself why you’re better off without it and him.

      He’s still trying to figure out why you got over him so quickly and easily and why he can’t get over you as quickly and easily as he thought he would – so he drives by wondering, haunts the places where you are… he’s probably not really conscious of the part he played in making what you had together such a nightmare, and if things haven’t really gone where he was hoping they would go he’s stuck in limbo gradually turning what he once had into a myth. Narcs can’t resist the mythical ideal, the one who got away… how did they get away, what happened to ruin such perfection!?!

      Stay strong… sometimes the hardest part is much later when the memory of the pain begins to fade and you remember the good times more than the bad.

      Like

      • Thank you! All of this does make sense. I just wish it wasnt so hard. Your right though, i have relationship amnesia…lol! Its very easy to remember the good times and why that sticks stronger than the bad….

        Like

  32. Thank you for allowing me to share this with you,
    You have such an enlightened and unbiased out look on life, and after reading so many of your replys I have come to understand that the most important aspect of healing comes from within, and to look at yourself with regard to things you need to come to terms with in order to move on, you have made me realise that liking yourself for the person you are is not selfish, as so many of us has been made to believe since childhood, I will therefore try to be as brutally honest about myself as I can be, it is not easy for me to say this, but just after I came out of this relationship I was left with feelings of anger and resentment, I hated the world, my attitude was, if I could not beat them I would join them, kindness and caring had brought me nothing but misery, i wanted to become emotionally dead, and was determined on revenge, but I had not considered the impact on those around me who loved and cared for me, it took a visit from my children, (all adults now) to open my eyes to what I was becoming, I felt so ashamed when they told me that they felt they were losing their mother, and that the person they once knew was somehow being destroyed by something more deadly than any narcissist could ever be, I had become my own worst enemy, Since then I have learned that the most important key I needed to help me heal was in realising the most unimportant person in my life had always been myself, it’s not an easy thing to learn to put yourself and your needs first, but i think I am beginning to understand now that making friends with yourself is by no means selfish or conceited, the time has come for me to let go of the negativity I learned during childhood, there was one way I could show gratitude to all those who had helped me, and that was to make a success of my life, one thing that has changed in my life (some might find this odd) I no longer feel the need to look for another relationship, as I find my life is as rewarding now as it was when my children were growing up, my children’s love is enough for me now, I look forward to their visits, but I also look forward to doing a lot of the things that I always wanted to do, I love spending some of my days helping out at the local animal shelter where caring is always appreciated, or searching through rock pools with my youngest daughter when she comes down to visit me, we still love doing childish things together despite the fact that she is nearly twenty two,
    You have also hit the nail directly on the head when you mention there could be more than one story to the conflict I have been feeling within myself, i have asked myself over and over why I still allow this man to be part of my life, I will try to be as honest as I can, there was the feeling of power over someone who I had been powerless against for so long, but that changed somehow, then I asked myself, did I need to stay in touch with him to remind my self just how close to self destruction I had become, but having gone deeper I have began to wonder if it could have more to do with an unresolved issue that I have, I know that peter is suffering from a chronic respiratory disease, how long he has left is anyone’s guess, am I trying to fill the void of never having the chance to make peace with my mother before she passed away, you are right I think I am the only one that can resolve this conflict, but you have helped me more than you will ever know by opening my mind that much more, thank you.

    Like

    • Life isn’t a straight line from A to B and eventually to Z, it twists and turns, and takes detours through the ‘scenic’ route – which often involves trying out different ways of approaching living life.

      Taking a trip through the – if you can’t beat them join them – territory is sometimes necessary. The experience informs us, gives us nourishment in the form of knowing what something is like from the inside out. You now know what it’s like to be ‘them’ and that has given you a better appreciation of being yourself.

      One consequence of being ‘them’ for awhile is that you get to see some of what may be going on inside of someone like Peter, you now have a personal reference point of the behind the scenes – and that understanding makes you compassionate towards him rather than just angry. However the anger has its reasons for being angry and that part needs to be understood too. Compassion and anger can coexist and both have a say in the whole picture.

      Sometimes a present relationship is an opportunity to conclude a past one – the conclusion may surprise us.

      The most important relationship in your life is the one which you have with yourself, it influences all the other relationships in our life – through our relationships we get to know ourselves better, and knowing ourselves better allows us to know others better.

      Keep being honest with yourself, keep looking within – many of the things we feared about ourselves and thought were monsters are the best of us who was misunderstood and hurt and hid in the darkness. Bringing those to light is like being reunited with an old and very valuable friend 🙂

      Like

  33. Sorry about this, I’ve somehow managed to post this twice, happens a lot lately, I don’t have a clue how to delete one though,😱

    Like

  34. I actually did take revenge on my female Narcissist/BPD ex. I sent her into a meltdown by making her go on the charm offensive, making her write everything down and then when she’d given me enough, I threatened to expose her to the fiance that I always knew about. She had denied his existence the whole way through, i can only imagine what went through her brain when she realised I knew everything and had been playing her game for at least a month.

    The slightly wicked thing? I didn’t actually follow through with my threat, I planted the seed, took her control away and she actually destroyed her own relationship as some sort of pre-emptive strike. She wasn’t going to let me have that pleasure, but at the end she did literally all of it to herself. I just manipulated her slightly and set off more or less every trigger there is.

    I have to be honest, it wasn’t nearly as satisfying as I thought it would be and I’d recommend just cutting them off and going your own way. You get to see a broken person behaving like a broken person and that is more or less it. I wrote about it on my site that is more about personal growth and working through these things than taking them on:

    http://www.alphareboot.com/how-to-take-revenge-punish-a-narcissist-an-actual-plan-that-worked/

    Like

    • Thank you for sharing 🙂

      The link you shared to your blog – Good post! You make a lot of great points in it!

      Particularly liked the part where you point out – “But I also know that feeling, facing up to the fact that you have been used, pretty much humiliated by the person that looked you straight in the face and told you they cared so much. And just sometimes you need to get a modicum of revenge, you need to punish a narcissist.”

      Most people try to be ‘good’ and deal with the knocks we get in life and the pain of relationships by not going all Vinnie Jones on the balls (or vagina) of those who have caused us pain. It’s a difficult challenge to not give in to the ‘dark side’ when dealing with a narcissist – they can turn a Vegan Pacifist into a cannibal animal who wants to not just kill them but also eat their brains – they have a way of bringing out the worst in us.

      While it isn’t hard to get a superficial victory over a narcissist – they’re vain, arrogant, hyper-sensitive, and often hand you exactly where to hit them on a platter if you’re observant, and they feel a hit even when you’re not actually hitting them at all – getting a satisfying victory is another matter. A narcissist doesn’t ‘feel your pain’ when you hurt them, they feel their own pain at being hurt by you – They trusted you! They thought you were a ‘good’ person! And they may end up concluding that you’re a narcissist because of your behaviour. Poor them, they fell for a narcissist!

      It’s all about them – and most people who go down the vengeance route with a narcissist want the narcissist to feel their pain, they want the narcissist to notice them, to see and feel them – what they want from the narcissist is what a narcissist can never give them because the narcissist is a narcissist and it’s all about them – other people are all about them.

      Hence why even a satisfying victory over a narcissist isn’t deeply satisfying. You may have got a hit in, they may hurt because you got a hit in, but they’ll move on and just keep doing what they always do. Maybe they’ll remember you and what you did and take that out on the next person they meet.

      It does depend on your particular narcissist and where they are on the narcissistic spectrum – the average narcissist will take a hit and move on because they want to forget you and the whole experience connected with you – they’re off chasing the next rainbow. The narcissist at the extreme end of the spectrum will never forget you or what you did to them, and what you did to them will become far worse in their minds than what you actually did, and they will make a career out of destroying you (See William Hurt’s character in the series Goliath. Or Terence Howard’s character in Empire). That kind of narcissist is basically a sociopath – you really don’t want them to remember you. If you play vengeance games with them – they won’t forget you, they play to win and settling for mild satisfaction is something they aren’t ever going to accept. Whatever they do to you – you started it, it’s always your fault.

      Glad that your experience has inspired you to share your story with others – great story!

      Even though I’m not a heterosexual man or a man at all, I thought this was an insightful post – http://www.alphareboot.com/simplest-shit-test-women-is-she-worth-effort-ditch-her/ – and could apply to any person who has said ‘No’ to someone who can’t take ‘No’ for an answer.

      Best wishes on your continued life adventure!

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      • Thanks, you too! I think we all come out of these experiences as stronger, wiser people. Sure there are a few scars, there always will be. But as long as we learn from them and refuse to be defined by them then they’re always going to be worth it in the end! Good luck on your adventure too!

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  35. Hi. I have a question. Do narcissists try the same tactic twice if the first attempt didn’t work and blew up in their face?

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    • Thank you for sharing 🙂

      Depends on the narcissist.

      Most narcissists tend to be persistent. Banging their head on a wall until the wall gives way to their hard head. If something blows up in their face they won’t like it, if it was very embarrassing for them they may retreat into silence, disappear for awhile until they’ve wiped the bad memory from their mind or figured out how to pay you back for what you did to them (which is actually what they did to themselves but that’s not their narrative). If it wasn’t that embarrassing they’ll pretend it didn’t happen and keep going. They’ll be nourished by the narcissistic supply of the drama of something blowing up in their face even if it upsets their ego.

      When something goes wrong most narcissists tend to take a time out and then reset themselves. Sometimes it’s as though the time before which went wrong never happened and this is the first time they’re doing this thing which they’ve forgotten blew up in their face before.

      Certain narcissists are prone to following that old piece of advice – if at first you don’t succeed, try, try, try again.

      Certain narcissists think that if you do the same thing over and over and over again at some point it’ll get a different result, the result they want, and sometimes it does because other people can’t stand the ‘nagging’, give in and let the narcissist have what they want just to make them go away. All the narcissist retains from that is that this tactic worked and got them what they wanted so they’re going to keep doing it, even if it doesn’t work the first few times it eventually works, and getting what they want is all that matters.

      If you’re dealing with a cerebral narcissist, they tend to have a menu of tactics and change tactic as soon as one doesn’t work. They’ll rotate through different tactics until they find the one which works on you.

      If you’re dealing with an overt narcissist and something blows up in their face they may blow up in your face and their tantrum might succeed where the tactic which didn’t work didn’t.

      If you’re dealing with a covert narcissist they turn defeats into poor me dramas where they’re the victim and you’re the villain, so if something blows up in their face they’ll burst into tears, get overly emotional, have a tantrum, get upset, act as though you’ve just wounded them, call for help from someone else to deal with you and defeat the dragon that you are who is trying to eat them. The covert narcissist is the type most likely to conclude that you’re the narcissist and they’re a victim of a narcissist – they may research narcissists online and look for tactics to either get revenge on a ‘narcissist’ or to manipulate them.

      It’s worth remembering that a narcissist does not perceive ‘reality’ the way that you do – therefore they may not think their first attempt didn’t work and blew up in their face, they may think everything is going according to their cunning plan. They rewrite the script until it makes them look good and makes you look bad. They’ll blame you for the tactic blowing up in their face – it’s your fault because you did not stick to their script for how the scenario should have gone.

      If you’re dealing with a narcissist whom you have had time to observe living their life you can probably answer the question yourself based on what you’ve observed as narcissists tend to repeat patterns on a loop. You may have seen them use a particular tactic with someone else and watched the scenario unfold perhaps almost exactly like theirs with you now has or they may have told you a story about an interaction they had with someone else which may be similar to the one they’ve had with you. They tend to like to tell stories of their interactions, although always altered to make themselves sound like a hero – so they will have told you about times when they used some tactic and what happened when they used it, and it is most likely a tactic they’ve used many times and will keep using.

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  36. I don’t know how you all can survive relationships with narcs 😂😂😂 I can’t even be friends with them , god dam

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    • Thank you for sharing 🙂

      Sounds like you have a great perimeter boundary protection device which keeps narcs out of your life when they try to enter it. Some experiences are better off not known if you can avoid the experience entirely 🙂

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  37. This was an eye opener for me. I have been friends with an individual for over 40 years. Prior to reading your blog I had looked up the list of symptoms that describes a Narcissist. It pegged him on every one! I have noticed a change in him these last 4 years. The friendship has become extremely exhausting to say the least. I will be taking your advice and will walk away. It seems to be the healthy way to deal with it. Thanks again!

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    • Thank you for sharing 🙂

      40 years is a long time to be friends with someone, especially someone who is a narcissist – that shows loyalty and depth of commitment on your part. You obviously have loved this person and it is always difficult to let go of someone we’ve loved. The pain of losing a good friend can run deep and twist things, maintaining perspective can be hard.

      It sounds as though their narcissistic tendencies were not pronounced for most of that time, that they were on a lower end of the narcissistic spectrum for many years, but something has in recent years triggered them to tip over from bearable to unbearable. Did he suffer a loss of a much cherished dream? Or suffer a final defeat in a long battle or quest which finally made him give up on something which kept him focused? Did he have to give up on a pursuit which kept him from spiraling into negativity?

      Some narcissists taking aging as a personal challenge and their narcissistic tendencies may become aggravated due to it. They rarely if ever age gracefully and their traits and behaviours worsen.

      Whatever has happened to change him, the changes seem to have set in. If you’re feeling exhausted by the friendship – with a narcissist this means he’s exhausted and is replenishing his energy by feeding off of yours.

      The formula with narcissists is usually – if they’re suffering they pass that suffering on to those close to them (in an attempt to cure it, get rid of it, disassociate from it, or just misery loving company). Trying to retaliate against the suffering they’re causing you only increases their suffering which increases the suffering they’ll inflict on you. They’re drowning in self pity and will cling to whoever is close, dragging them down into their mire. So it is better, if possible, to distance yourself.

      The end of this friendship will hit you hard, especially as it has ended on a bad note. This ending does not take away from all the good years you’ve had together, even if it seems to sully those memories. Distancing yourself will allow you to keep the good memories intact and will hopefully stop further bad memories from being created.

      Your primary concern is your own welfare and when a narcissist is involved the healthy way is usually far away from them. Once they’re spiraling they’ll keep doing so and suck everyone down with them. You can’t save them, or return them to who they once were if they were different from who they are now, but they can help you lose yourself.

      Take care of yourself, and be gentle with yourself about walking away from this friend.

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  38. You are correct with your advice, even though some people are due for revenge. My case is that I have a brother in San Antonio, TX that is a narcissist and he once tried to kill my dad for his house (I saved my dad’s life by getting him medical attention in the nic of time….saving his life). I was made my dad’s POA while he was in ICU, and I took care of my dad long distance while running 2 businesses. My dad died 2 years later, but not before my brother moved in his girlfriend, threw my dad out of his own bedroom and took over his home and went through as much of his money that he could. On a daily basis he would talk to my dad about dying and asking my dad for everything when he passes away. He has told lies to my relatives and they will not talk to me, and I no idea what has been said, in an effort to disconnect myself from my brother…. I do not speak to those relatives anymore. It was a therapist that told me that it’s alright to get toxic people out of your life, even if they are related to you (especially narcissists and sociopaths). All crazy people are related to someone. I have to admit, I have hatred in my heart even now and I would love to get revenge. He has since married the girlfriend and even though I can’t get revenge, I do smile at the fact that I never have to deal with him again and he will end up ruining his stupid wifes life eventually. And since he tells people that he has achieved more in life than he really has, it will catch up to him at some time (like saying he graduated from college when he never attended, that he has had careers that he has never had, etc). In the meantime, I have closed my businesses and retired. My life is pretty good and I know it will always be better than his. And knowing that feels great! But I have to admit, I would love to stick to him BAD!!

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    • Thank you for sharing 🙂

      When the narcissist in your life is a close family member you don’t really get a choice about having them in your life or not, about being exposed to their abusive behaviour, at least not while you’re a child. Even when you’re older it can be difficult to cut those ties to a family narcissist

      It is a tough challenge to make the choice which you’ve made and not just because the family narcissist tends to keep trying to pull you back in – either directly or through their ‘flying monkeys’, other family members or family friends who they’ve manipulated into doing the dirty for them. Those people often think they’re doing the ‘right’ thing, and they tend to use society to back their ‘right’ thing view up – society frowns on those who ‘abandon’ their family especially in their time of ‘need’ (and greed).

      If you tell people that you’ve cut off contact with a narcissist, removed a toxic person from your life – most people will applaud your wisdom, support your decision because you should not have to put up with that kind of abuse and abuser… until you add the information that the narcissist/toxic person is a close family member, a sibling or parent, and suddenly the applause stops and the support turns to “but they’re your mother, father, sister, brother… they love you, family is important, blood is thicker than water, etc. Suddenly you go from good guy to bad guy just because of a ‘detail’ which causes conflict in the minds of others. That detail causes conflict in your mind too because you also have that ‘loyalty to family no matter what they do to you’ narrative embedded in your programming.

      By the time you’re old enough to get them out of your life you’ve experienced so much of their behaviour and the consequences of that behaviour that you’ve built up an inner catalogue of grievances. Those grievances never really go away, even if you psychoanalyse them until you know them inside out, they’re like an ancient volcano which desires human sacrifice to quell the rage within. While the mind can see the logic of walking away, of cutting the toxic person out of your life before you die from their toxicity (which may be turning you into a toxic person too), the grievances don’t want to walk away until they’ve blown up the building with the toxic person in it (like in those films where the hero walks in slow motion away from having defeated the arch villain).

      After many years of No Contact I recently had the opportunity to ‘stick it’ to my family narcissist (well, one of them, an opportunity handed to me by the other one), and they’d just finished reminding me why I wanted to do that very badly. However sticking it to my narcissist would have required the kind of persistence and dedication to the vengeance cause which only another narcissist would have as it would have ended up with many casualties who were not my narcissist and chances are my narcissist would have been the only one left standing at the end of the story (because their immune system is totally different from ours). Like you I chose living well as the better revenge option, and it was the wiser, saner, and right choice, but… there will always be the grievances raging within wanting fresh narcissist blood on my sword.

      If it’s any consolation, going by what you’ve shared of your story, it sounds as though your brother is intensely jealous and envious of you and has probably felt that all of his life, it gnaws at his gut like a bottomless pit of hunger. Knowing the way narcissists tend to view things, in his eyes you have everything he always wanted and felt he deserved – the success in business, the love/admiration of your father, the independence, the good life – and he feels super sorry for himself and hates you because you’re everything he isn’t and he wants to be you.

      Narcissists are their own worst enemy and tend to be the only ones who can get revenge on themselves for you.

      Keep living the good life, it is the best revenge even if it doesn’t always feel satisfying as pay back. Schadenfreude smiles do ease things.

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  39. I didn’t do it on purpose, revenge was really not on the menu.

    I knew he was a Narc, my mother was a Narc…. I saw the red flags right and left, but Oh I was in Love and I tried to convince myself that I could handle it, just once more day, one more night.

    All I wanted was to spend the rest of my life with him, but then on a Sunday morning he took my phone at 6 am and started browsing through all my data. As usual….in case he found something untoward, a conversation, a unknown name in my contacts, a word out of place in a text message to a friend. He did that a lot, scan my entire phone to see if I wasn’t cheating on him. Well that Sunday morning at around 9 am after a three hour search, he tumbled on a picture of a yoga workshop from six months ago (I am a yoga teacher) where I adjusted a man into the right posture. (Well that’s my job, that what brings the food on the table, right ? because as you can well imagine he does not work, I do)…
    and all hell broke lose…

    He started raging, insulting me, then he karate kicked me in the head once, twice, and then some before my son could intervene (thank you for being there!). I suddenly had this out of body experience where I saw this courageous teenager defending his mom against this enormous monster of a man and I enraged, For the first time I answered him back and threw his things in his face and told him exactly what I thought of him and that he should get the F… out of my house immediately.

    As soon as he was gone I went to the Police and told them everything, how he abused me verbally physically, how he extorted money out of me the whole lot. Two years of agony. Writing it all down on paper made it real, made it so true. I could not believe that I had let all of this happen to me over the course of a two year period. Of course his physical violence wasn’t a first. 2 months earlier he broke my leg for the same reasons. 4 months earlier I spend the night in the hospital with a concussion. But every time he say I will take care of you I love you so much that is why I am so jealous and every time a forgave him.

    But not this time, enough was enough ! I live in France and you guys will not believe this, they just heard him out two weeks after the last deed and sent him home. Our testimonies will be heard by the state attorney and he will decide to prosecute….or not . In the meantime, he is free, goes to the gym every day and has the time of his life. Of course he tries to contact me from time to time to see what he can salvage but I have gone no contact. Hoping the french justice system will take care of the rest. No news since… It’s the holiday season …maybe a January hearing if I am lucky.

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    • Thank you for sharing 🙂

      I wouldn’t call what you did ‘revenge’. This man physically assaulted you, that is a crime, and therefore what you did was exactly what we are told by society and the law to do when we are attacked – you reported the crime committed against you to the appropriate authorities.

      Of course you didn’t do it on purpose, no one in their right mind would want to be beaten up and possibly killed by someone else, especially not by a person with who you have been intimate, trust, love, share your home.

      He put your life and that of your son in danger.

      You gave him many second chances to prove that he was worthy of your love and trust and a place in your home, and each time he took the chances you gave him to prove that his words about loving you were true and proved the opposite.

      You forgave him for breaking your leg, for giving you concussion, and yet he couldn’t ‘forgive’ you for helping one of your yoga pupils have the right posture. Why did he karate kick you several times and almost kill you (might have killed you had it not been for your son intervening) – because he was jealous due to loving you so much? Ca c’est completement cingle! He’s blaming you for his actions, which is typical of an abuser who will never change because nothing is ever his fault, his apologies are empty, he will never see that what he did was wrong.

      Chances are that one of the reasons he’s calling you is to get you to drop the charges. He may be out and living his life, going to the gym to strengthen his muscles just in case he needs to beat up someone else who upsets his fragile ego, but the possibility of him having to face the consequences of his actions is hanging over him, making him worried, nervous, ruining his mood. He most likely wants you to tell the state attorney that it was all just a misunderstanding, nothing happened, it’s all your fault for making him angry, etc. He might even sue you for ‘damages’ done to his reputation as a loving man who occasionally gets jealous.

      What you did was the right thing to do, and you know this. Just because you ignored the red flags and let this man into your life doesn’t mean you deserve what he did to you. Ignoring red flags is something which happens to everyone, even those who have experience of narcissists and abusers. Just because you forgave him for his previous violence against you doesn’t mean you have to continue to forgive him and let him do it again. It is human to hope for the best, to focus on the good in others, and to believe in the gentleness of love. It is human to give others a second chance, to see if they mean it when they say that they are sorry and will never do it again. It is not your fault that he did what he did to you and your son – it is his fault.

      The justice system is not always able to do justice, so whether the state attorney decides to prosecute or not, and what kind of sentence he gets if they do prosecute, the important part is that you stood up for yourself and made a statement to and for yourself about it.

      Take good care of yourself!

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  40. Ok so I am trying the “no contact” route as much as I can, but what if there are kids involved in which case I need contact with the narcissist even though I dont want/need contact??

    I would do anything to just go my merry way but I am forced to talk to him and he tries shamelessly to win me back to feed his need. How do I get him out of my life, when I’m forced to still have contact for the kid’s sake? I’m tired of the cycle and am getting a divorce but it seems that as long as I still have to see him every week, I’m still giving him what he wants and that is what irks me…

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    • Thank you for sharing 🙂

      You’re right, you can’t just go No Contact from a narcissist when you have children with your narcissist. You need to figure out a way to deal with them which gives you the freedom from them which you need for your own sanity, while also incorporating the fact that they’ll always be a part of your life because you have children together. You need to consider what your children need from you for their sanity.

      Mistakes will be made on both sides while trying to find the best formula for both of you and your children.

      A narcissist tends to use their children to get at their other half, how they do that depends very much on the moment and the mood the narcissist is in. The more a narcissist feels cornered, hated, blamed, misunderstood, etc, the more disruptive, angry, and retaliatory they become. Their children can become missiles they launch at the other parent. Some of what they do is due to them trying to prove they’re the ‘hero’ and not the ‘villain’ (in their mind if anyone is a villain it’s you, and your children may become villains by proxy if they’re too much on your side, defend you, etc, – but this is mainly if the narcissist is particularly malignant).

      Give your narcissist good feedback as a parent – let him know when he’s being a ‘good father'(give him the guidelines of a good father for him to follow), and they’ll calm down quite a bit. If your ex thinks that you think well of him and tell your children he’s a good father, he may be persuaded to back off in his bid to annoy you for all eternity and use your children against you (he’ll be concerned you’re using them against him – if you can assure him you’re not, and do so indirectly, he might leave them out of his battle with you, and may even relent in his fighting against you). You can set him up to work hard at being a good person – the effort this entails is worth it.

      I lived through this as the child, but I lived through this with two narcissist parents. It gets vicious and stays ugly if nether side does anything to stop the spiral of anger, hate, and retaliation. Since you’re not a narcissist you have the biggest personal power in the equation to keep this from becoming permanently ugly.

      You need to take a time out to realise just how must influence and power you have in what happens next, for you and your children. Remember narcissists need others to ‘mirror’ who they are to them – get it right and you’ll have him in the palm of your hand for 70% of the time.

      Sometimes it helps to recall what you found great about him, why you married him and had children with him – he wasn’t always a narcissist to you, before he got that label he had other labels, he wasn’t always someone you wanted to reject and dump out of your life forever. Your children will benefit from this kind of recall because they’re half of him – and if you hate him then for them you hate half of them (something my parents reminded me about on a daily basis until all I was left with was self hate).

      It might be worth exploring the stories of other people who share custody of children after a divorce with a narcissist – there are many online – to get some ideas of what will work best for you. There are also quite a few psychologists trying to generate How-to’s about co-parenting with a narcissist, this is one example – https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/anxiety-zen/201502/forget-co-parenting-narcissist-do-instead – #4 and #8 stood out, others were a bit dependent upon the kind of narcissist you’re co-parenting with and your own personal needs.

      It’s not going to be easy, you can’t just dump your narcissist and move on – but even those who don’t have children often find that hard to do. Focus on your situation and find the best solution for you and for those you love, be prepared to make adjustments along the way as you live and learn from a difficult experience.

      Best wishes!

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      • Hi There – me again. The divorce is in the process of getting filed and I’ve been out of the house now for approx 3 months. Help me please because he is filling my mind again with his great stories of how perfect the future will be if I go back to him. He’s a changed man and blah blah you know the drill. I am on the verge of falling for this again how can I stop this!? He’s promising everything that he’s dangled in front of my nose for the past three years, which he knows I always wanted but never gave me – now he’s promising great things – the perfect life… It’s different than before, he is pulling out all the stops!

        I couldn’t go no contact because of the kids – and that was his way in. The kindness I showed with the positive reinforcement to try and manage him and have him being a good parent, backfired and has come through as a weakness on my part, and he is worming his way back into my mind and heart…

        I don’t want to go through this again but his stories seem so…real…how do they do that?

        I wish I could have gone “no contact” …Please help..! ?

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        • Don’t panic.

          You are not helpless even if you sometimes feel that way.

          You have as much power and presence as he does.

          Take a time out and pause.

          Reread what you have written here and listen to what you have said in your comment.

          Once you’ve reread your comment and listened to yourself – if someone else said this to you, what advice would you give them?

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  41. Good definition of narcs, they hate being ignored/not the center of attention. Run as fast as you can away from these toxic creeps they are only good for their evil existence.Nothing more.

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