Understanding Narcissists

Soylent Green ... is peopleSoylent Green by rob3rtarmstrong

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Why are you reading this post?

The answer to that question is not for my benefit but for yours. I would like you to take a moment to focus on yourself and your motives for reading a post about narcissists.

Pause to self reflect and centre yourself on you. Pay attention to your eyes looking at this page, reading these words – who is behind those eyes?

Who are you?

What are you looking for?

Do you have a question about narcissists which you would like this post to perhaps answer for you?

What is that question and why do you have it?

Let the thoughts and feelings connected to your reason for being here overwhelm you. Don’t be afraid – or do be afraid but don’t worry about being afraid. That’s natural and normal. Feel the fear and do it anyway, as the saying goes. Let yourself feel and think what you feel and think. You won’t drown in it even if it may feel that way.

There’s more to you than your thoughts and feelings. There is a core self which won’t drown no matter how overwhelming the ocean of thought and emotion is. A core self which can emerge from that ocean however tumultuous it is, tidal wave or rip tide, whose feet will touch dry land and walk you out of the chaos, leading you to a safe place where you can dry yourself off with a soft and warm towel.

You may be shaken and stirred, but you’ll be fine.

You may have almost drowned, but you didn’t.

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Pause….

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Now.

Even if you don’t want them to be – Narcissists are people just like you. Or sort of like you. Just more damaged than you – that’s why they’ve damaged you. They’re passing their wound on…

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soylent green people

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So.

Imagine that your fear of thinking those thoughts and feeling those emotions is so intense that you’d do anything to not feel or think.

Those who are drowning often panic and drown anyone who tries to rescue them, they lash out trying to save themselves… and sometimes end up drowning anyway, and drowning the person who tried to save them too.

You don’t want to be yourself, feel yourself, think of yourself and your thoughts. It’s horrible, what is inside of you is terrible, trying to eat you alive like a ravenous white shark.

SHARK!

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jawsJaws by Alan Bossuyt via geektyrant

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And you don’t have a core self to be there for you. To wrap its arms around and say – There, there, this too shall pass.

That’s what it is like to be a narcissist.

Every thought, every feeling, every wave of emotion, be it one of the mind or one of the heart, threatens to kill you, eat you alive and sometimes does exactly that.

You’re dead. Time to reinvent yourself.

Or you’re not dead yet, time to grab onto someone else and hope they’ll save you.

But others can’t save you from yourself, so you hate them.

You hate them because you hate yourself.

You hate them because you need them and needing people like that is weak. You’re weak. You’re not just weak, you’re powerless, and stupid. Really stupid. You’re a disgusting, imperfect, thing which will never be good enough for you.

How dare people make you need them. How dare they have that kind of power which makes you feel so powerless. How dare they be so clever that they have so much power over you and make you feel so stupid.

How dare you need them. How dare you give them so much power over you. How dare you think you’re stupid. That’s so stupid!

But you can fix this. You can teach yourself to be dead inside, might as well make that a strength. Don’t feel, don’t think… not those thoughts anyway. Turn your powerlessness into ultimate power. Turn your stupidity into superior intelligence. Turn your self hate into love.

Time to reinvent yourself. You’re the reset artist, a genius of unparallelled genius.

You don’t really believe that… however you can make it true if you just try hard enough. Just don’t think about being a fraud…

Besides, other people are frauds. So. If you’re a fraud… they asked for it for being frauds themselves.

They say they love you – Do they really!?

Let’s test them.

Let’s see if they really love you as much as they say they do. If they pass all the tests maybe they can convince you to hate yourself a little less. But you’re special and it would take an extraordinary kind of love to get through all your self hate to find something to love inside of you.

They’re lying, you know they’re lying. Time to show them what lying liars they are…

You love me… yeah, right!

What you love about me is this fake persona I’ve created. That shit is easy to love because I used your ideal to create it.

You wanted someone to find you special and beautiful. I did that. I not only did it, I did it so well that you told me all your secrets and I listened carefully – that careful listening made you fall hard for me because no one else listens to you that way. You don’t even listen to yourself that way… if you did… I wouldn’t be able to do to you what I am about to do to you.

Because, you see… you’re not listening to me. I know you’re not. You’re too caught up in me listening to you and to you saying all those things you’ve never said to anyone else (not even yourself).

You love me more and more, and for each drop of love you have for me, I hate you more and more, because I can’t feel it. I can’t feel your love, and that hurts me in a way you will never understand. What I feel from you is you loving all the illusions I’m creating for you to make you love me in the hope that your love for me may make me love myself.

But your love for me, the way that I’m getting it by creating an ideal lover for you – that just makes me hate myself more and hate you for loving me, and hate myself for winning your love this way through a fraudulent persona.

I can’t wait until this pain is over, for the day you realise that your love for me, for the me you thought I was gets exposed as a sham.

And then you’ll blame me, but I’ll never accept it – because not accepting it means you’ll obsess over me and that… how that hurts and feels so good. Pain is the only thing I can feel…

I’ll never give you closure or admit to anything. It’s all your fault anyway. I told you a million times that I was a fraud… and each time you made excuses for me, tried to fix me with your love, tried to love me anyway. You wanted to be a hero for saiving me from myself… look where that got you.

You think I’m a villain… and you’re the hero. You think I’m the narcissist…

I don’t need your pity, your empathy, sympathy, you feeling sorry for me… who do you think you are!?! I know what pity, empathy, sympathy, feeling sorry for others means… it’s you thinking you’re better than me, than others who aren’t you.

Now we’re in my territory. I dragged you down, so I will always be above you. You’ll never be free of me, but I won’t tell you why. I’m dead inside, I know it, but you… you’re still clinging to being alive inside and all the illusions that go with that. That fascinates me about you.

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soylent greenSoylent Green by Matt Dupuis via Inthemouthofdorkness

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Are you still here? Reading this?

If you are…

Did you at any point stop thinking about yourself, or your narcissist, your story with your narcissist….

Or if you’re here because you think you may be a narcissist, perhaps because someone who ‘loves’ you accused you of being one, and you’re wondering if perhaps, maybe, god forbid but what if…

Did you stop thinking about you, yourself, your significant others, for a second or two and wonder about the person writing this?

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that food is people by kelly angelby Kelly Angel

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I’m going to make a random guess that this isn’t the first or the last post you’ll read about this subject on your journey to find answers to your questions about this subject and how it affects you personally.

I would like to suggest that you do something (if you’re not already doing it), based on what I’ve observed from my own explorations into this subject (especially online but also offline, through books) – Remind yourself to question your source of answers to your questions about narcissists and Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD).

Ask yourself – Who is writing what I’m reading and why are they doing it? What are their motives and intentions? Where does their information come from? And things like that.

Those who write what you read… are people. People are complex and complicated, just like you and those you know personally.

If you’ve been in a relationship with a narcissist – and you’re in the later stages of it where you see them as being evil, monsters, bad, villains… please remember that once upon a time you didn’t see them that way. Maybe you saw them as the exact opposite. Then they disappointed you, destroyed your expectations, hopes, thoughts, feelings, heart, and pushed you over a line…

You were attracted to them once… why?

…and this could happen again in ways that may occur while you’re vulnerable, seeking a hero to help you out of the situation you’re in now, while trying to recover from a relationship with a narcissist and what that has done to you.

Narcissists don’t usually come with the label ‘Narcissist’, sometimes they come with the label – Victim of Narcissists… who is trying to help other victims of narcissists.

So, be careful.

Fool you once… fool you twice…

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soylent green by phillip hernandezby Phillip Hernandez

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If you explore this subject online for long enough you come across some ‘creepypasta’ .  Scary stories of victims of narcissists falling prey to online narcissists posing as ‘victims of narcissists’, especially on forums connected to NPD which in theory should be ‘safe’ places… but… aren’t shielded from narcissists.

Narcissists don’t know they’re narcissists (for the most part), don’t know they’re supposed to be the villains (according to others) and often see themselves as heroes… the underdog who saves the day for everyone else and is loved for it.

Probably the weirdest version of NPD creepypasta is… those cautionary tales connected to Sam Vaknin – one of the internet’s first writers about Narcissists.

Search for information about NPD and Narcissists online and you’ll find his writing – many of the terms used today about NPD and Narcissists were coined by him. He’s a pioneer on the subject in many ways. However he also loudly and clearly states that he’s a narcissist – yet people still doubt this because he diagnosed himself and… did something which those with NPD are not supposed to do – say they’re a narcissist.

He’s insightful and brutally honest – so he can’t possibly be what he says he is. Thus when he turns out to be a narcissist – Why are people surprised!?!

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The Snake – Al Wilson

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He told you he was a narcissist… and now you’re accusing him of deceiving you!?!… because you thought he cared and he didn’t give a f**k about you.  You were all about him for him. And you’re angry at him because he behaved accordingly to his disorder, like he said he would – maybe you need to stop obsessing about him and start focusing on yourself.

Want to understand a narcissist – start with understanding yourself. Understanding yourself will explain to you why you ended up in a relationship with a narcissist.

It makes a big difference.

It won’t always be as pretty as you’d like it to be, but it will explain a lot more than if you try to hide your head in the sand and blame the narcissist for everything that went wrong. It’s not all your fault, but it’s not all their fault either. They need us to get away with what they do – and they hate us for letting them get away with what they do.

Don’t approach narcissism, narcissists, NPD, hoping for it to be a black and white situation with a black and white solution. That will only make the confusion more confusing in the long run, even though in the short term sprint it makes everything a bit better.

Don’t look for those who tell you what you want to hear – that’s what narcissists excel at doing.

Look for those who tell you some of what you want to hear, but also some of what you don’t want to hear – they’re in the grey area, which means they help you to figure things out for yourself.

That’s where personal power comes from – think for yourself.

Be prepared to ask yourself questions which require you to find your own answers, and it may take a while for you to answer. Sometimes it’s not about the answers, but about the questioning.

Take care of yourself – don’t expect anyone else to do that for you, especially if you don’t do it for yourself.

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 tired of lemons by kathy r. jeffordsKathy R. Jeffords

 

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Feel free to ask questions… be prepared to answer them yourself.

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*inspired by reading a really long thread on a forum discussing Sam Vaknin, mostly criticising him for being what he said he is while quoting his writing extensively. I found this forum discussion after doing a search for his name due to watching a very insightful video of his here.

He was one of the first sources online which I came across for info about narcissists and NPD. I had already seen his film about being a narcissist before I searched for his work online. He’s insightful about the disorder and its effects. He still is. He gives insider information – what you do with what he shares is up to you. What you think of him – is also up to you.

Remember that what we say about others… it also reveals us. What we do with that… is up to us.

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27 thoughts on “Understanding Narcissists

  1. Reblogged this on Narc Raiders and commented:
    Greetings and Happy Spring. I have sorta kind of hung up my Narc Raiding hat, occasionally I take a peek in, sometimes someone lost ends up on the doorstep and I help out as best I can…this evening I came in for a visit and saw I had some messages…I REALLY dig “An Upturned Soul’s” blog…if you’re still navigating the waters, or just have a continued interest…check it out…Best wishes and warm regards…
    Betty

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  2. I thought of many things while reading this – you, me, my mom, my ex-narcissist. You could say that I was unfocussed. 🙂 Your reconstruction of how a narcissist operates was chilling, Ursula. And, you are right; we are partly responsible for our “relationships” with narcissists – I have never held with these bloggers who blame everything on the narcissist.

    I visited the post on how to recognize a narcissistic blogger – an excellent post. Thanks. 🙂

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    1. Thank you 🙂

      I’ve always been able to forget myself when I’m around other people and sort of become them, through observing and listening. It comes with being very shy – you can ease the shyness by forgetting yourself and paying attention to others. With my parents doing that allowed me to gauge the mood and predict storms, a bit like a meteorologist of people (also known as hypervigilance). That, and they shared way too much information about their thoughts and emotions, listening to them talk about their dramas and relationships was a bit like watching a daily soap opera.

      Figuring out the part I played in how I was treated by the narcissists in my life has been the most helpful element for me – not in a self-blaming, shaming way (which is what narcs get you to do with yourself) but in a logical and practical way which gives you personal power in your interactions. If I know what I’m doing which is aiding and abetting their treatment of me, or which is attracting them to me or me to them, then I can make adjustments through awareness.

      Besides, if you blame the narcissist for everything, you’re basically doing what they do to you in a manner which will keep you forever stuck in the relationship with them even when you’re out of it, and you’re giving them too much power – which suits them. Doing that also can attract other narcissists. However you do have to go through that ‘it’s all their fault’ phase to rebalance things and get some catharsis.

      There are some great blogs and writers on NPD out there from which I have benefited immensely, they shared their story and helped me figure mine out, and there’s always something more to learn and find along the way.

      I love your series exploring narcissism, this one – http://lynettedartycross.com/2015/02/27/where-does-narcissism-come-from-part-iii/ – is very thought-provoking. I look forward to reading more of your explorations. You have an amazing mind!

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      1. Thank you! 🙂

        Yes, I went through the “it’s all their fault” phase. For a while I couldn’t stop talking about my ex-narcissist and what a predator he is, blah, blah, blah. I eventually calmed down about it, though. I see him (and myself) from a much better place, now. What bothers me about some posters, though, is how they don’t seem to move on from the anger. They seem, as you say, forever stuck, and don’t do any kind of self-examination.

        PS – I am over the flu (again! completely unfair because I got it twice in 2 weeks) and have started on the “how to make a narcissist love me” post.

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        1. Have you ever read the work of Louise L. Hay, her book Heal Your Body is quite interesting (a bit New Age twee at times, but worth a ponder). She equates physical ailments with the ailments of the psyche. I don’t always agree with her take on it, but some do hit the spot. Her entry about colds hit the spot for me. She also gives affirmations to ease the ailment (some of those make me squirm with their twee-ness, however they do sometimes give insight).

          Respiratory Ailments – Fear of taking in life fully – affirmation: I am safe. I love my life.

          Influenza – Response to mass negativity and beliefs. Fear. Belief in statistics – affirmation: I am free from all congestion and influence.

          There are times when I know my attitude is making me sick, both literally and figuratively. And other times, it’s just nature doing its thing.

          The Anger stage is an important one to go through when recovering from a relationship with someone with NPD, and it’s easy to get stuck in it because of the energy of anger. If you think about it as energy, and the energising action of it on the body, how that energy feels and affects the body, the human system, the chemicals it releases, etc, it makes sense why it is rather addictive.

          I also think some people are afraid that if they stop being angry they’ll forget and forgive in a way which makes them vulnerable again, and therefore they may end up powerless again. That could be me projecting. Anger has been an ally for me, but you do need to understand how it helps and how it can hinder – took me ages to figure that out.

          Anger is a powerful genii to let out of the bottle. It can be what gets you out of being stuck, but it can also keep you stuck.

          Levels of anger vary and often are due to exposure to a narc. The longer you’ve been with a Narc, the longer it’s going to take to work your way through the anger stage. Also if you’re still dealing with the narc, if they’re still in your life, even if you’re not with them – it will keep stoking the anger because they keep doing what they do. And if they’re your parents… well, you sort of have to stay angry or you’ll get sucked in again.

          The story explains the anger, telling the story sometimes needs anger to tell it. Telling the story can gradually dissipate the anger because the story explains itself to you when you tell it. If the story is still ongoing, the anger may not be able to dissipate. So there are many variables.

          I also think a very select few are the very thing they’re raging against. So that explains that. And reading their work gives another kind of insight. But that is just my take on it and I’m quite adept at being wrong.

          In the wow blog story shared category though… I’ve been following one person’s story recently which ended abruptly in a way and in another it has just begun. Powerful stuff, beautifully expressed – http://unrestrainedjane.com/

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          1. No, I can’t say that I ever have heard of Louise L Hay. But that interpretation is very interesting. The second batch of flu (the first was all stomach; the second all lungs) swept through my workplace like a tornado.One of my colleagues even wound up in the hospital; I wound up with the beginnings of pneumonia. Why is this interesting? Well, my workplace has a quite toxic upper administrative layer with a lot of very unhappy people underneath – we are definitely not free of congestion!

            I agree with what you say about people not letting go of their anger because of concerns about becoming vulnerable again. I hadn’t thought about that possibility. I was more worried that some of these posters might be narcs themselves. However, I am adept at being wrong, too!

            I have been following unrestrainedjane, as well. She is on an amazing journey!

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            1. Statistically it would make sense that one or two out of so many might be narcs, and considering the nature of NPD, especially when it is in its covert form… but it can be hard to tell, especially on the internet. And the way that being in a relationship with a narc affects people can cause the side effect of ending up sounding like a narc yourself. I’ve caught myself a few times, and probably haven’t caught myself many times more, sounding that way. There is a certain pattern though which is rather telling, but you have to follow a blog for a while, read multiple posts, to see it otherwise it is easily missed. And in some ways, who best to write about NPD than someone who has it (even if they don’t know that they do). Paraphrasing Narc Raiders – love him or hate him, Sam Vaknin knows his stuff.

              I’ve read a couple of posts which have discussed the quandary of narcs who blog about NPD. CZBZ of The Narcissistic Continuum has written about this in detail in more than one post covering different aspects of online narcs. One post was about someone who plagiarised her work and posted it on a recovery blog. House of Mirrors also did a post about having their work plagiarised by another blogger who writes a narc recovery blog. And in the forum thread I mentioned in this post, they spoke about narcissists on NPD forums.

              I think it’s wise to be aware and take care. Trust your instincts. And enjoy all those who aren’t narcs, statistically that’s far more than those who are.

              That is interesting about your workplace environment. It makes a lot of sense. Negativity creates a lot of stress, stress can lower the immune system, and bugs always look for our weak moment to get in and spread. If a situation is constantly negative over a long period of time, then we’re pretty much inviting sickness in because we’re sick of the situation. It’s a physical manifestation of a dis-ease of the psyche.

              Pneumonia – Desperate. Tired of life. Emotional wounds that are not allowed to heal. (I’m not sharing the affirmations for this one because my fingers won’t type them).

              The stomach – Holds Nourishment. Digests ideas. (aff: I digest life with ease)

              Stomach Problems – Dread. Fear of the new. Inability to assimilate the new. (aff: Life agrees with me (*this one made me laugh). I assimilate the new every moment of every day. All is well.)

              Didn’t you mention on your blog a while ago that you were considering changing your job, or changing the way that you worked? I think it was around the time that you were about to have your operation. Or did I just imagine that? I could have easily imagined it, I often read things which aren’t there, makes reading rather a strange experience.

              What would your ideal work/life scenario be?

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              1. Yes – I did seriously consider changing my job, so you didn’t imagine it! But because of my medical situation and some concern about my pension, I have had to stick with my present employer. Sometimes, you gotta do what you gotta do. It’s not a happy workplace but I’m going to have to stick with it for about two more years. I’m trying to look after myself in this environment, but it’s difficult. I am a pilot and would love to teach flying, but I have to get my medical back first (am in the process of that) before I can complete my training.

                I’ve worried about sounding like a narc, too (have also worried that I even might be one). I’m going to look up the blogs you mention here. 🙂 It’s still amazing to me at times the extent to which narcs feel that they can just take.

                Have a good weekend. 🙂

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                1. The posts on those blogs to which I referred are:

                  http://n-continuum.blogspot.co.uk/2013/06/blogduggery-part-two-this-is-not-okay.html

                  http://house-of-mirrors.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/malignant-narcissists-in-cyberspace.html

                  Very interesting, not sure what to make of them, but always insightful, especially the comments on the n-continuum post because the story unfolded a bit more in them.

                  You couldn’t be a narc if you tried really hard using everything you know about NPD. Sorry, but being a narc is always going to be a fail for you 😉

                  I wanted to be a helicopter pilot when I was a kid… so I think being a pilot is TOTALLY AWESOME!!!! I remember reading about that in your posts and feeling the kid in me jump up and down with excitement about it. My dyslexia rules me out of being able to do it, but I can admire those who do it and get overly enthusiastic for them.

                  It’s true, sometime we gotta do… that stuff we gotta do which is burdensome and boring and we really want to give it double middle fingers.

                  I don’t have the impulse control which you do… I tend to burn my bridges while I’m still on them trying to cross them. I tend to think your way is better, but that’s the perspective of someone whose patootie is always on fire.

                  We just have to do what we think is the right thing to do and then see what happens. You never know… adventures are sometimes found in things which don’t look like them.

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                  1. Wow! For a brief time when I was new to blogging I read ANA, but I became uncomfortable with it. At the time I wasn’t sure why and put it down to the frequent references to God – I’m spiritual but am otherwise not a believer (or Belieber, either 🙂 ). Then I forgot about that blog until yesterday, and now I get why I stopped reading it. Yikes! I do have narc-radar, after all!

                    You wanted to be a helicopter pilot – how great, another flying enthusiast. 🙂 Usually it’s only other pilots who understand that whole flying obsession. And depending on the degree of dyslexia, you might be able to fly recreationally. I know of a pilot who only has one eye – he has quite a few restrictions, but he can still fly. 🙂

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                    1. ANA has one post which I recommend to people who have been in a relationship with a narcissist but who haven’t had previous experience of those with NPD. It’s a good post, imo. I have only read one or two other posts on the blog. I did see a post which made me do a double-take, the kind I do when someone changes their history in a certain way, but that can happen in this sort of scenario and not be a red flag. Shortly after that I came across the House of Mirrors post while searching for something unconnected. Makes me wonder, however I did also wonder a bit about the HoM post too. Those blurred lines.

                      I’ve made it a sort of rule for myself to look at what is being offered. Is the post useful, offering advice, information, insight, etc. which can help me or someone else. Does it matter if the person offering it may be NPD? I still haven’t answered that question. If I think someone, a blogger blogging about NPD, may have NPD it does in some ways give me insight and is helpful in another manner, especially as it answers questions that those who don’t have it can’t answer. There’s one at the moment which has me bashing my head on the table a bit, but it’s so insightful to observe although it is rather like watching the proverbial car crash. Sometimes I wonder about myself, not in an NPD way, just in a WTF kind of way. We can learn a lot about ourselves by observing how we observe and why and such.

                      A while back my neighbour had a friend visit them… in a helicopter, landing in a nearby field…. I was a kid again. Jumping up and down and running around like a million X-mas’s had arrived all at once. And the other day an air force jet flew really low across the road along which we were driving on its way to land and I was too gripped by excitement to take a photo even though I had my phone in my hand set to the camera function. There’s a buzz about it which nothing rational can explain.

                      I’d love to fly but… you haven’t seen me try to operate the oven, and it only has a couple of buttons because it is an old model 😉 It’s a wonderful thing, I can enjoy it as much when others do it (safer that way all around)!

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  3. While reading your post, all I could picture was the Pirates of the Caribbean. They want to taste but can’t, they want to feel warmth, but they can’t. They can’t even die! That does make me feel kinda sorry for my narcissist wife that has left me four times and is currently divorcing me. Not because I pity her but rather because I will be able to “eventually” move on with my life while she is destined to keep doing the same thing over and over and… The whole narcissism thing just sucks for everyone!

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    1. Thank you for sharing, that’s a brilliant insight 🙂

      I’ve found a lot of wisdom about narcissists through film. Either through relaxing, watching something, not thinking about life and personal stuff and suddenly there it is, a scene or character or plot line which explains something you’ve been struggling with. Or through an association just like you did with Pirates of the Caribbean. It just clicks pieces into place.

      I just recommended this post about this classic film to someone who is recovering from being in a relationship with a female narcissist – http://thegirlwiththewhiteparasol.blogspot.co.uk/2011/08/movie-review-pandora-and-flying.html – I remember when I saw that film, one particular scene in it where she convinces the man who loves her to prove his love and he does and… it’s still not enough for her, that scene summed up my relationship with my N parents clearly. I saw it then, but it took me ages to really understand what I’d seen, because it is so complicated.

      By degrees we move on, bit by bit, measured in some ways by how long we were in their world, sucked into it and stuck in it, in their version of reality which became ours too. We can eventually get out (some pieces of us never get out, but maybe those pieces need to stay there to remind us…). They never get out… they don’t really want to. The tragedy feeds a part of them that nothing else does.

      There is a flip side to narcissism and its suck factor… it makes us get to know ourselves better, and by doing that we get to know others better. So it isn’t a total suck.

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  4. What to do. What to do. I want to respond but I’ve noticed in the past few months your posts, which I know are written for you :-), have become so long and often there are links to other articles within, that im unable to finish them in order to comment

    I always want to read completely before I comment. I have in my mailbox at least 15 posts in trying to finish.

    It did cross my mind, what is going on w Ursala that she’s suddenly become more prolific than before?

    Anyway, yes I am here still reading and trying to respond

    I think we (me) still read about the N bc even though i know quite all I need to know (in my case it’s ‘stay far away’) there’s a part of what happened that has such an unreal quality to it I am still trying to integrate it all. Like a magic word will click and I’ll think, oh it was just a narcissist. That explains it. I’ll move on now.

    The things they do are so random and bizarre yet textbook predictable I might always be scratching my head and wondering ‘what was that and why did it hurt like nothing before or after ‘ even Long after i know the real answer

    Hope you are well and yes still reading here.

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    1. Ps. You pointed me to narc raiders years ago for support and she was so insightful and kind to me. And no cult rules to follow. I’m grateful for that.

      If it’s not okay to post this please remove A site that always has fascinated and disturbed me are the series of utube videos under the name of https://m.youtube.com/. ‘NPD recovery. ‘. I’ve only watched a couple bc they’re so hard to watch

      Someone has taken great time to identify themselves as a narcissist and with the use of animation using like a Fortune 500 corp woman exec in a bus suit- sitting at her desk in one, using very complex language explaining to us how they’re just people too. And why they do this to us.

      And the part that’s the dead giveaway that she is truly NPD is when she says ‘have you noticed the new set for this video? ‘ or invites the reader over and over to please write to her with their comments or observations about Her work. Not once but over and over.

      I always think ‘poor baby. Someone went to a lot of trouble to get some attn’. But again, the videos are very disturbing bc of the dense language and over production. Too manipulative to watch for me.

      I know they’re just people and that’s fine. As long as I can identify them quickly and get out of their path.

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      1. I’m always open to links 🙂

        I know of NPD Recovery. I’ve watched most of her videos. She has a blog too – http://npdrecovery.blogspot.co.uk/

        She’s an ACoN, hence the rather chilling insight she has into narcissists. It’s more an ACoN’s view than a Narcissist’s view. It’s too stark for a narc.

        Her stories of her mother are worth reading but be warned they have many triggers as she digs deep into the pain of the experience – http://npdrecovery.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/narcissistic-mother.html – don’t read it if you find her videos hard to watch. It is very insightful, AND intensely painful to read, especially if you can relate personally.

        She also addresses the problem of ACoNs becoming narcs, or at least behaving that way, coming across that way, because children of narcissists fall into that grey area between the black and white of narc and non-narc. She also deals with the issue of attracting other narcs and ending up repeating past relationship patterns. It’s an intriguing blog, but it’s not for those who are easily triggered.

        She doesn’t come across as a narcissist to me. I’ve read other blogs by those writing about narcs, seen other videos about NPD, which screamed person with NPD to me more than her stuff does.

        I tend to use ‘stiffness’ of self expression as a gauge to identify possible narcissists. They censor/control themselves a lot and it transfers itself to you, to others. You become responsible for their image/persona. The walking on eggshells thing. It comes across in blogs and videos too.

        Want to know if a blog about NPD is run by someone who may have NPD – check the comments section on posts. It’s very revealing. Ask yourself – How free do people feel to say what they want in the comments. Blogs by narcissists often have more obsequious comments than regular blogs. And check the replies of the blogger to the comments. Bloggers who are narcs have a particular style of reply, if they reply at all.

        It’s not foolproof. But it’s an interesting way to explore a blog and the blogger behind the blog. It adds dimension. NPD Recovery’s blogger comes across as an ACoN in her replies to the comments and not as a narc.

        But then again, it’s all a matter of perspective – our personal experience and view informing what we see in the world around us, in others.

        This is probably the best post I’ve ever read about identifying if a blogger is a narc or not – http://hubpages.com/hub/Online-Narcissism-Writers-with-NPD – particularly #4.

        Trust yourself (and don’t listen to me 😉 )

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        1. The stiffness was the exact reason I believed she was a N. The wordy, obtuse, technical language which sounded like it was being read from a doctoral thesis. That combined w someone who took the time to try to place ‘appropriate ‘ humanizing facial cues on animated objects. In one she made a special point of putting her hand to the characters chin, as if to be thinking or would touch her brow. Except it was a few seconds out of sync. That particularly reminded me of NPD, a response slightly out of sync and definitely for effect

          I haven’t read her blog. And there were only thumbs up or down for the videos but she always comments in the video, ‘thanks to everyone who wrote ….’

          It’s all amazing to me that someone has the time to do these types of things. In a few weeks i hope to have time to do something creative too if only to sit in a chair and read blogs

          one of the more recent replies in this thread, the one about the Samaritans (which was classic) spoke of why a N might get a third party involved. And why we might feel awkward trying to explain our situation.

          This is exactly how I got roped in when my sister was dying. I got the call from her that she was sick. I knew what would happen if I engaged. Then her well meaning friends started calling saying ‘you should be here ‘. It’s your sister

          Then before long ‘ we know you had a history w her, I hope you two were able to work it out before she died. ‘.

          Here someone had gone ahead, her husband , and planted stories about me and how victimized my sister was

          What kind of sister would not go if someone was dying ? Exactly how I got sucked in. It’s taken almost a year to get my equilibrium

          In retrospect I would tell anyone who was considering making deathbed peace and hoping for that ‘kumbaya moment w an NPD present to consider that you might be getting pulled closer so they can get a better shot at you before they leave this mortal plane. I’d advise that sometimes doing the right thing is staying home and taking care of yourself

          I’m not throwing the blogs out of the mailbox yet. I love to read for pleasure and blogs are usually the perfect length to fit what is my current diminished attention span Take care )

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          1. The stiffness is partly because she’s using English and it’s not her mother tongue, and she explained somewhere about the challenges of using the software which helped her to create the animated videos. She managed to capture the subtle essence of the disorder in ways she meant and in ways which she perhaps didn’t mean to do. There is a robotic component to the way that NPD is experienced by those on the outside of those who have it – I think it’s partly due to those with NPD being so caught up in their mind – their feelings are thoughts not feelings for the most part.

            What you experienced with your sister during her last days, what occurred before and what came afterwards, is something which will take a long while to process because it stirred so much up for you. And because others, her husband in particular, kept it going and you couldn’t really make peace because those around you wouldn’t allow peace to be made.

            But you have the bracelet and that was a gesture for you and you alone. Perhaps she knew that what she drew you into was going to be what it became, and she, like you, didn’t want that, but… sometimes, often, it’s not about us, it’s about others and those shouting the loudest until the still small voice is drowned out, hard to hear.

            No, it’s never going to be kumbaya…but sometimes we need to hope for that possibility one more time and act on it, and be reminded one more time that it’s not going to happen. We tried, and sometimes that’s what we need to know for ourselves – we’re still open-hearted. Which can be a curse, so much hurt… yet it is also a blessing, even if it hurts – at least we still feel it.

            The moment we stop feeling… then we become like them and we know that is not the way to go, not for us, not for those who love us.

            Make your home a place which nurtures you and take care of yourself, wise words, and wise doings 🙂

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    2. Thank you 🙂

      What to do? Respond when you feel like it, when the urge urges, and don’t force yourself to read – reading ideally should be a relaxing and pleasurable thing to do. Delete the pile up of my posts in your mailbox and don’t worry about it, you haven’t missed anything (I repeat myself a lot, especially when I’m trying to figure something out).

      That’s a wonderful compliment, but there is no need to read everything I write. If I followed my blog, I would only read the occasional post which caught my eye and I’d do a lot of skim-reading, waiting for something to stand out and mean something to me personally.

      I love blogging and writing posts. Blogging hits a certain spot for me and has released me from an old way of being, of keeping everything bottled up inside, to myself. It has taught me a lot about myself, and more about others – especially the wonderful side of others. I sometimes find the answers I’m looking for by writing, sometimes it takes a lot of writing to find one answer. It focuses me, which is precious to me as I am a scatterbrain. What’s going on with me right now is I’m very stressed, but I have to stay calm and focused. So I write and it helps. Blogging is a selfish and creative outlet for me. I don’t expect anyone to read my posts, and I’m still surprised when people do – I know, I know… being an airhead has advantages and disadvantages in equal measure. I can be rather dense sometimes (sometimes all the time).

      I’ve found much wisdom surfing the narc net. Strangely enough though, the best insights I’ve had for myself into my own narc story is from unexpected sources. Like playing video games or watching a TV show. Those times when I’m not thinking about it are often the times when I have revelations where pieces fall into place.

      I’ve learned to trust happenstance and the random. What you need to know will reveal itself to you when you’re ready for it to be revealed and it could come from accidentally breaking a glass while doing the dishes.

      Trust your flow of you and your life, be gentle with yourself 🙂

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  5. I was 8 years old when the film came out…….I caught the gist of it, I think….very solemn, and grey and frightening…and yes dehumanizing. I’ll have to watch it again.. Lately I’ve got the visual of really ugly demon creature or creatures that ride on the backs of narcissists~~maybe it was a dream I had…brought clarity to me and for me….that they are just as bound as all of us could or would be…or are….just comes in a different package or different brand creature…. yes, we all are human and we need to take care of our other humans well 🙂

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    1. It’s strange how perception works, always fascinating to explore.

      I can’t recall how old I was when I saw the film, it wasn’t when it came out because I saw it on TV. I remember it as being funny, but then again I have a twisted sense of humour and grew up watching horror films and B-movies.

      Dreams are a great way to work things out – in theory that’s sort of their purpose (according to some of those who research such things). Apparently, thanks to a rather bizarre study using humans as guinea pigs, if you deprive a human of dreaming (REM) sleep they go a bit crazy in waking life.

      Even nightmares are helpful, as we face our fears in a ‘safe’ space.

      Many of the things which cause a narcissist to behave as they do are the same things which can cause us to behave in erratic ways. The main difference is that non-narcs can self-reflect, sort things out inside, chat with themselves and work things out logically. Non-narcs tend to handle their own issues internally, and if they need help doing it, they’ll seek therapy or advice from others but don’t expect others to take on their issues and solve them for them. Narcs don’t have that kind of reasoning. If a non-narc is scared, being overwhelmed by a fear, they know what’s happening, they know it’s a fear and that they need to sort it out because it’s affecting them and their relationships. A narc doesn’t do that, doesn’t have that kind of reasoning. They have the mind of a child who has never learned that the monster under the bed is a figment of their imagination, to them it is still very real.

      It’s important to not dehumanise them the way they dehumanise us, however we don’t have to take care of them. That’s too much of a responsibility and one they don’t want. It’s like them giving us their demon to look after so they don’t have to ever face reality.

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  6. Great Post Ursula… yup, yup and yup……love the Blog “Narcissist Suck”….Her last post being the VERY BEST!! ewwwww movie Soylent Green!!

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    1. Thank you 🙂

      I agree about the blog, Narcissists Suck, and her last post is very good. Narc Raiders is also a very good blog and one of the most recent posts said something similar about moving on. I love the post I linked to which had the Sam Vaknin video. She has a keen eye for insight.

      When you’re ready, you feel the pull away, and the push forwards into something else. Only narcissists are stuck where they are, going over it again and again like a broken record – we get stuck there too for a while, but we can find our way out of that place as long as we face what ties us to them and tied us to them. We need to know ourselves.

      The Soylent Green thing… it’s just something which struck me the other day. Something I was reading about narcissists was written in such a way that it dehumanised them, and I thought – Narcissists are people. If we forget that they are people, we may become like them. And my film buff side chipped in with – Soylent Green is People. And my mind made some connections between the film and Narcs.

      It’s a very clever film. A bit eww, yes, but some of the best insights in life are eww. 😉

      Take care, beautiful!

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