That’s what people remember…

eff it

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Ah… memories…

What do you think people remember about you?

Is it everything you’d hoped they’d remember about you or… is it everything you’d hoped they’d forget?

People have a strange way of remembering what you want them to forget and of forgetting what you want them to remember…

…they feel the same way about you as a person who remembers and forgets… all the wrong things.

… and we all try so hard to force the rightness of ourselves onto others.

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“Maybe the target nowadays is not to discover what we are but to refuse what we are.”
― Michel Foucault

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Okay… forget that…

What do people actually recall when you remind them that you exist?

Because people have a strange way of forgetting your existence entirely… um… how is that possible!?!

Come on… you’ve done it too… unless you’re like.. totally perfect!

Remember valley girl talk… that was ‘in’ once, a fad… it’s hip to be cool, but it’s also hip to hate hipsters and their idol worship of being cool.

Wtf was I talking about…?

Oh, yes…

And when they do remember you… perhaps because you remind them to remember you… what is it that they remember about you?

Is it your style?

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“Style. That’s what people remember.”
― Terry Pratchett

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It’s kind of funny… the quote above… I edited it by pasting and matching style…

… okay

… I’m the only one chuckling… that’s not as embarrassing as it might seem to be… perhaps because I’m used to it and… it’s part of my style.

The embedded link in the words – my style – will lead you to a Daily Post prompt which is… old.

They often regurgitate their daily prompts – they’ve got a book of these, you know, which can be bought if you can be bothered to buy it – and they really can’t be bothered to come up with new stuff daily because… if we can’t be bothered to… change our underwear every day then why should they… or something like that (apologies to those who change your underwear every day… … …why?).

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messy peopleYes, there’s a typo… twice… get over it grammarists, there’s more to life than grammar… maybe… I like dots…

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So… let’s just go with this as being new and pretend it’s not old. Just like we pretend… loads of other things.

Happy birthday!!! Oh, what a surprise!!!

Anyway…

Here’s the question of the prompt (if you’ve heard it before pretend you haven’t – you might answer it differently this time than you did before… or not. Or maybe it is new to you, so you’re… kind of excited about being asked this. Either way… that’s something something):

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Describe your personal style, however you’d like to interpret that — your clothing style, your communication style, your hair style, your eating style, anything.

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Wait… don’t be too eager to answer… let this simmer a bit before you jump in… unless of course you’re an angel who goes where others fear to tread with such haste as though your wings are on fire… so flying time is limited.

Many of us like to dip our toes in the water of style and figure out whether we want to go public with things, like our style… what’s the temperature or frequency, Kenneth?

Like leggings… I did that quite openly the first time it was in vogue… and later watched as the next generation, and the generation after that, and my own generation (some of whom wore those leg thingies but burned all the evidence) ripped the piss out of leggings… so it was quite a surprise when something so hated by stylistas and fashionistas suddenly was loved by them… again… as though someone had just invented the light bulb or the 3-D book (in these days of books read on kindle and stuff which is flat… come on, you’re waiting for it, aren’t you… for someone to invent a 3-D version of a book… um… but… yeah, yeah…).

You caught me once doing stylist fashion shit… not catching me doing that again! Haha!

If you’re going to laugh at me… I want to enjoy it too… enjoy the flip side as it slowly dawns on you that I really don’t care… I’ve tried caring and it’s just not worth it when it comes to style…

This is me…

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fumo_e_vino_by_moonvoodoo-d60vt1k-1

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…being me.

Je m’en fous…

Menefreghista…

Whatever…

style…

…?

Yes, I know everything about me is bad for me… just because I know it, doesn’t mean I’m going to do anything about it, especially if the only one it bothers is you… but it doesn’t bother me… much…

… but right now I think you should be focusing the energy you’re using up on finding fault with me (and worrying about it… and perhaps its implications infecting you) on fixing yourself… you’re looking a bit feverish, queasy, faint… was it looking at my photo… oh, dear…

It’s okay… you look beautiful… when broken…

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beautiful broken

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I’m kidding, of course…

what was this about…?

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50 thoughts on “That’s what people remember…

          1. I stole them while you were sleeping. I’m like a weird Robin Hood. I steal fingers and give them to … I don’t know what I’m talking about. And wait a sec … you have lovely long fingers. 🙂

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  1. It’s supposed to be “a big draw” not fraw. A fraw is what you get when you mix draw and fraud, as in “I was frawed when the fraud tried to fraw me in.” 😉 And oh yes, it’s supposed to be expectation, not exoectation, but I won’t say what that reminds me of. 😉

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    1. I like fraw, frankly it has a certain stylish draw 😉

      If you look it up on Urban Dictionary it says – “Na dude, I can’t go to that party. I haven’t fapped in so long. I’m totally gonna fraw tonight.”

      As for exoectation – sounds intriguing, scientific and primal.

      I should point out that my mind autocorrects when I read, this is also known as having dyslexia, sometimes it autocorrects things which don’t need correcting and that can be weird. My most recent version of that was reading in the news that Gandalf’s son was going to be executed. I didn’t know he had a son, you learn something new every day!

      Typos are stylish these days!

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      1. I wish I could fraw. I’ve been unpacking boxes. I’m soon going to look like a box. I probably do look like a box. But this box has been sneaking away to go on WordPress. Shhh … don’t tell the other boxes. 😉

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  2. Thanks for sharing the photo of you. 🙂 I don’tknow about style; I really focussed on your hands. You posted a picture of your hand(s) once before and I find them very expressive, interesting, experienced hands. Mannerisms, especially hand mannerisms are a big fraw for me, much more than clothes or hair or shoes. To me, style is all about the inwards, not the outwards. Many years ago, I did the outwards style thing, but that was more an exoectation of my first husband, rather than a reflection of myself – inauthenticity!

    Great post and I enjoyed reading the commentary. 🙂

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    1. Thank you very much 🙂

      Some years ago I was chatting with a bloke who got annoyed with me for allowing my hands to fidget while he was talking. He lectured me on it a bit. After that I tried to keep them still and I found I could not hear anything he was saying because my mind was too focused on keeping my hands still… when my hands were fidgeting I heard every word he said.

      Outward style can be completely controlled and can become whatever we choose to make it, however inner style just is what it is and may leak out no matter how much the outer shell is regimented. We may dress to fit in to a group, to reflect the environment we’re in, the social standing we’d like to have, etc, but if we don’t inwardly fit in to that group then it’s just fancy dress.

      Narcissists put a lot of value in appearance, and that includes the appearance of those they have chosen to be extensions of themselves – you have to look a certain way as this reflects upon who they are. They need to control how you look to control their persona.

      Sometimes outward style is a creative expression of who we are or who we want to be, it’s a fascinating subject and way to discover ourselves.

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      1. Yes. My ex-n was big on telling me what to wear, how to do my hair, shoes, on and on. There was sooo much to criticize. He wanted to make me look worse, actually, in a sort of weird, prim way. It was completely unlike me. Dowdy, except for the hair, with which he wanted me to go bleach blonde. He was very critical of my furniture, car, washing machine, almost eveything that I owned except the house. And, of course, he didn’t have a pot to piss in. He was real classic, too, in that while I endured this pecking at home, he would praise me to the skies to others, sometimes complete strangers.

        Your hand movements suggest that you’re a tactile learner – you “listen” with them. I knew you had experienced hands! 🙂 I am, as well. I basically can’t concentrate unless I’m doing something with them. I can also be a foot jiggler. Very annoying to others.

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        1. I saw a quote today while I was sourcing images for my post which said – Narcissists find fault like there’s a reward for it.

          There is a reward in it for them, it’s a bit like exercise, or eating chocolate, or anything else which gives a boost to the system and releases endorphins or other yummy internal things. Only they can’t do it in moderation, they’re addicted to criticising. The worse they feel about themselves, the more they criticise, but they also do it when they feel good about themselves, it’s just less constant.

          My mother criticised compulsively. She had to do it, it was a stress release mechanism and she was always stressed, as many narcissists are because when you have to control as much as they do, that’s intensely stressful.

          One time when I was trying out a particular New Age positive thinking method which required the complete absence of saying anything critical or ‘negative’ – you had to watch everything you said (kind of like with a narcissist), and not allow anything negative out of your mouth – it was basically a say ‘Yes’ to everything and only speak happy talk system designed to snap the mind out of negative thinking, my mother, who had to know about everything I was into and then do it too, tried it out.

          She lasted for about a day before she couldn’t take it, decided the system was a load of hooey and launched into a critique of it which lasted a while because when a narcissist fails at something they need to explain in detail why they didn’t fail, the failure was due to the system being faulty. Over the next week or so she still tried to do it, and would take pains to criticise people using backhanded compliments – which is a regular feature of the narcissist lexicon anyway, especially when they’re trying to be nice.

          What happens when you try to stop jiggling your foot so as not to annoy people? Is it like when I tried to stop fidgeting with my hands?

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          1. Oh yes! It’s like the lights go out in my brain. I think I might be a litte ADD. I always have to be chewing gum, playing with a pen or jiggling my foot. If I can’t, I somerimes feel like I might crawl right out of my own skin.

            It’s interesting that you talk of your mother’s criticism as a stress reliever. I had a similar experience with my mother. It’s like she held it in and held it in until she couldn’t stand it any more and then she would blow. And the things she blew about were completely unpredictable. Something that was completely inocuous the week before, like shoes left at the front door, for instance, would send her into a complete meltdown.

            And yes, criticizing the system, whatever it might be, was one of my mother’s favourites, too, as well as insinuating herself into everything I might be doing. She absolutely hated not having me under her thumb. The more independent I became, the more loudly she complained, threatened to cut me off, on and on.

            What a maze the narcissistic mind is. They get completely lost in there, and the stress and panic and anger envelops everyone around them.

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            1. Sometimes, to calm my natural nervousness, I sit very still but in a relaxed way, not rigid, and although it does calm me down I find it harder to be an active participant in a conversation when I do that, I can listen and observe, but I’m not involved, I’m detached like a member of an audience. My fidgeting keeps me and nerves actually help me to be a part of an interaction… and it also stops me from getting pins and needles, keeps the blood flowing. So I think there’s a good side to it.

              I recently read in a psychology article that people who take regular breaks from concentrating are better at focusing on what they are doing than those who stay intensely concentrated and don’t take breaks. The reasoning was that the brain slowly zones things out when it focuses for a long time on it. The break refreshes the eyes as they have to readjust to what they are looking at and therefore see it as though for the first time again.

              When I’m working on an image I leave the room regularly, and take a few minutes away from it. I do that when I write too (and that may partly explain why most of my posts jump around, although my mind does that anyway), but that’s not always a good idea because I lose the thread of the thought sometimes by doing that, other times though it helps me to regroup my thoughts because there are times when I’m writing and I just space out but my fingers are still going.

              You can fly, I somehow don’t think you’d have mastered such a skill if you had ADD, perhaps your little bit of ADD is what it sometimes mistaken as being ADD – a very active intelligence. Thoughts are like blood for the mind, they need to flow. And things like chewing gum is considered good for concentration.

              Our mothers sound very similar. Did your mother also have to talk a lot, as though it was breathing. I often wondered what would happen to my mother if she had to take a vow of complete silence. She could never shut up, when she did a silent treatment, if she couldn’t chat to someone else during that time it made the silent treatment very short because she couldn’t stand it.

              I think their mind for them does everything which non-narcissists use other parts of themselves for. Their emotions are mental (double entendre intended) rather than feeling. They think they feel, rather than just feel. It’s easy to get lost in the labyrinth of the mind, especially when it has to do so much.

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              1. I also have to take breaks but I can be a terrible procrastinator, too, so I have to keep those breaks short! I’m also a real muller. I prefer to take the time to turn things over in my mind because otherwise, nuances will fly past me.I tend to do better with immediacy and I know that I can handle those situations reasonably well, but at the time of them, I often feel like I’m not doing well at all – there’s this little voice in there telling me that I’m screwing up. I tend to take them apart afterward and can be very critcal of my actions, even if the situation worked out positively.

                Flying fits into immediacy. It’s often been described as “hours of boredom punctuated my moments of sheer terror” (I don’t know who first said this but most pilots know it) and it’s the moments of “sheer terror” that we endlessly train for. The response becomes automatic, and you just do x to fix the problem. One time, I had to make a landing in crappy weather with high winds. It took every bit of knowledge and experience I had to keep the airplane on the runway. After I parked it, I started shaking like a leaf, could hardly walk even. In retrospect, I was happy with myself for having not panicked and followed the training, but was really critical of myself for having gotten into the situation in the first place. I vaguely remember this playing in the back of my mind as I was landing – that “you’re screwing up” voice. I learned a lot from that event but have still not come to terms with “the voice.” I tend to ignore it and deal with it later, but sometimes I should be listening to it, too.

                I think you’re right about the ADD. The gum chewing and so on allow me to focus and that’s my little mechanism for dealing with scattered thoughts.

                My mother could be quite a talker. It really depended on her mood. Either she was on top of the world and babbling, or down in a hole and howling (rather than just talking). She sometimes had these in-between periods where she didn’t say much at all. My mother was English (as we Canadians say, from England); is yours also? (Can’t remember – I believe your father was Italian?) She came from a large family and I spent time with her as a child visiting her family. It was the happiest that I ever saw her, even though I recognized later that there was a lot of volatility among her siblings, and especially with one of her sisters. She nevertheless tended toward a calmness and equanimity that did not occur at home. She was very unhappy living in Canada, even though it had provided a much better life for her than most of her siblings had, and I sensed that she was almost ashamed of having married my father and moved to the “colonies.” She could be quite a snob, but that snobbery was prompted by a real inferiority complex. I sometimes wonder to what degree her problems were exacerbated by her socialization as an “English person.”

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                1. I’m going into astrology for a second – is your Mercury in Virgo, and what’s your rising sign?

                  Oh… oh, oh, oh… Happy Birthday!!!

                  You mentioned in another comment (the one after this one on another post) about not always remembering facts about people… yup, totally get that! We remember mostly how a person feels to us, who their are to us, what we connect with, it’s an abstract knowledge, facts about them sometimes escape our memory because the facts about them aren’t who people are to us. I suppose you could say we remember their soul rather than the accessories of it. Depends really on what we relate to and many variations on that theme.

                  My ‘memory’ of you is of this soul who is strong, wise, and strong and wise enough to be vulnerable, who has a great sense of humour, a laughing heart which embraces the tragic-comedy of life.

                  And I remember you can fly because that’s something I always wanted to do but I can’t even drive… last time I tried to learn that… ruh roh!

                  You’re very intelligent and wise, but you play that aspect of you down for many reasons, part of it has to do with having an NM. And because you’re in tune with the softer side of being human, that even when we know something there is always more to learn, and we don’t always know what we think we know.

                  You’re a beautiful soul who has turned her experiences, especially of suffering, into inspiration. You want to pass on healing rather than wounding. That is an admirable trait, and deeply memorable. You give of yourself with others, you don’t take – that is rare.

                  Anyway… before I get too deep… and make us both nervous about what touched our foot under the water…

                  Yes, my mother is from England, but when she was a child her parents moved her around quite a bit, and she spent time in Canada during WWII. She was sent to a boarding school in British Columbia (I think it was BC) and was teased for being English, her mother died while she was there and the news was broken to her very harshly (in a sort of – your mother is dead get over it – manner, or so she recalled it that way) and later when she went back to school in the UK (while living with her strict Victorian grandparents) she was teased for having a Canadian accent. Her brother loved Canada and wanted to settle down there, but his father caused a problem with that and my uncle went a bit crazy and had to be repatriated. Families, eh? My mother never felt at home anywhere and things were exacerbated by marrying an Italian – Italian families are very cliquey, and Italians never let foreigners forget that they’re foreigners, even if they’re Italian but moved region. There was always this – you don’t belong here – undercurrent in my family. It was done to my parents and they did it to me.

                  I think that those with NPD never quite find a home where they feel safe, therefore they can’t provide a home for their children to feel safe. They always feel under attack, and we attacked because of that and end up absorbing their wound – but I think life offers opportunities to heal the wound, it’s up to us to recognise that we have a wound and that we might be able to heal it, but only if we own it.

                  You’ve definitely done that, just make sure you aren’t trying to heal wounds which don’t belong to you – children of narcissist tend to try to do that and that confuses matters.

                  Liked by 1 person

                  1. Oh my. Thank you so much for the amazing compliments. 😀 I can get a little squirrely around compliments because they so often cause me to recall how disingenous the source can sometimes be, but coming from you, I trust and respect them. Thank you again. 🙂

                    By way of explanation for my absence over the last few days, I interviewed for an amazing job in BC and yesterday it was offered and I accepted! It came out of the blue but it was a great opportunity and I felt I had to try for it, in spite of having committed to another year in my present job. So I am moving (again!), and very quickly, too, as I start on Aug 31. I really almost can’t believe it, but am strongly reminded of the sense I had a few weeks ago that I’m entering a period of intense transition.

                    Thanks also for the birthday wishes. 🙂 I actually don’t know if I have Mercury in Virgo or even what my rising sign is. I sometimes enjoy reading about astrology but really haven’t done much to educate myself about my own chart. I did look myself up recently on an astrological site (I don’t remember which one) and it did confirm my sense that there was about to be a lot of change.

                    You’re exactly right about remembering how someone feels – their personality is them, not where they were born or how much they weigh or anything else like that.

                    I agree with you that I do downplay. Something along the lines of that old saw about how it’s better to let people think you’re a fool than to open your mouth and prove it. Confidence – what a trip that can be! Knowing what you know as opposed to what you think you know. On that front, I have to tell you that I read your comments before my interview and together with a little shoring up from my dear M, feel that both of you really contributed to my ability to give a good interview, and ultimately, to my success. 🙂 I let go and also took control, both at the same time.

                    I hope you really know how much of a positive force you are, how much good you are doing others (and yourself) through laying out and exploring yourself. “Meeting” you has truly been an honour and you deserve all good things in your life. 🙂

                    One of the things that I’ve frequently read about narcissism is that it can either come out of excessive pampering or excessive criticism and emotional and/or physical abuse. I haven’t seen much written about instability. It sounds as if your mom’s upbringing was very unstable: sent to a foreign country, her mom dying while she was away and then being expected to just brush that off. Then she had to return to England and live with her grandparents. The uncertainty that she must have felt must have been (obviously) overwhelming for her still developing brain. My ex-N also had an unstable childhood. His mother was (apparently) a serious alcoholic who spent a lot of time away from home for treatment and he also lost a young sibling while he was playing at his father’s workplace, a lumber mill. Where was the father?? From everything I heard, Harry’s father was a disconnected adult and off on his own bat. My mother, too, had an unstable childhood. Her mom died when she was 13 and her father quickly re-married but she and her younger siblings were constantly being shuffled around to relatives. She had to drop out of school at around this time and then worked as some sort of scullery maid at Arundel Castle (she didn’t tell me any of this herself; one of my uncles did). Then the war started and she joined the army at age 16, becoming one of the early radar operators. She had to escape bombing raids a number of times. Then her father, who was a spotter for the RAF, was killed by a German fighter pilot. She subsequently lost a much-loved brother who was in the navy and another brother was taken prisoner in France. I sometimes sensed from her that she hadn’t expected to survive the war, but then when it was over, she had this other life that she didn’t what do to with except to be angry.

                    Anyway, it really strikes me that the hallmark of narcissism might possibily be instability more than anything else. It’s almost as if they learn to believe in it as a lifestyle and then have to complusively pass this on to others. And although any kind of abuse is, in and of itself, proof of instability, I wonder specifically about the impact that uncontrollable events can have – a sort of PTSD-generated form of narcissism?

                    Anyway, time to close this rather long response. 🙂

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                    1. What wonderful news!!!

                      Your life is a whirlwind of change at the moment, all for the better, and very well deserved!

                      How exciting! Best wishes on your new adventure! 🙂

                      ps.

                      I was going to say some things about this and that, and NPD, continue our comment-chat, but you know what… This news of yours is too awesome to add anything else!

                      YAY! Enjoy the blessings!

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  3. Someone said “there is nothing new in the Universe.” I think they were on to something. Just look at the movies that are coming out >again< that have already been made so many times, it's only the name of the actor that might catch your eye (or not..I have no idea who most of the actors even are today…I live under a rock though.)

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    1. It’s funny, I used to read the works of old philosophers who kept saying that there’s nothing new under the Sun, that history keeps repeating itself, but I was young and to me everything was new so I thought they were wrong and being a bit grumpy… now I’m old, a bit grumpy myself, and can see what they were saying 😉

      That’s so true about films. I love cinema, always have, but… these days I’ve seen too many films, especially ‘oldies’ and I’ve become jaded, I keep getting annoyed about the same plot repeated and the endless remakes, shouting – Why are they remaking that movie!?! I’ve already seen it and it was good! Make something new!

      Mind you so many films have a plot which is basically Shakespeare redux. So I guess we like the same old again and again, slightly modernised and with fresh faces. Perhaps it makes us think we’re not going around in a circle, I don’t know… life is a bit like fiction and fiction is a bit like life.

      I also live under a rock these days, it’s quite a cosy habitat! I can only be lured out from under it with fresh food 😉

      Liked by 1 person

  4. *standing ovation on this one* but probably because it selfishly reminded me of something, or is it someone, either way, that I’ve become quite fond of.
    Regardless, the style question, why does anyone necessarily need a “style”? Although I suppose lack of one can be a style all it’s own; I prefer a mixture of styles, but that could be the multiple personality thing I seem to have going on, Sybil-like from what I’ve been told.
    I dig the picture btw, it’s rustic, to me anyway. The sleeves are definitely eye catching, I adore them, though I guess the wine glass would be the main focal point, depends on who’s looking I suppose.
    And why on earth would anyone specifically look for flaws in anyone else with malicious intent? Flaws/faults are what make people unique, some are more tolerable than others (flaws and people), but unique nonetheless. People are strange 😉 But I agree, if others are going to scrutinize you solely to laugh at you, you may as well laugh too.

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    1. Thank you very much 🙂

      This morning I read an intriguing post on a psychology blog about authenticity – http://accessiblepsychology.com/2015/08/are-you-an-authentic-person-heres-how-to-tell/ – I found their view interesting to consider as it struck me that they were trying to find a formula for something that really can’t be captured in a formula. Their list for what ‘authentic’ people do was quite good but their list for what authentic people don’t do was weird because – what if those things are what you do naturally? Does that make a person authentically unauthentic?

      Fault and flaw finding are sometimes necessary, a part of human nature and evolution, progress requires that kind of discernment. If something isn’t working, we need to know why, and sometimes the only way to do that is by finding a flaw or fault. We need to question things and people as part of our learning about life, etc, and it can be healthy for us to find a flaw or a fault – it’s one of the things which can help us find out if we’re in the company of a narcissist.

      However those who do it with malicious intent take something natural and turn it into a way to boost a fragile ego. They see someone they admire, perhaps, and they feel threatened by what they admire, so they need to ruin it in some way, they are compelled to find something wrong with someone who seems too right, it hurts them and they lash out, their admiration becomes envy, an envy borne out of their own inner demons. The faults and flaws they find are their own issues projected onto a screen, away from them – their actions are a need to release pent up stress caused by an inability to accept themselves as is. Many of those who do that have had it done to them, for them it is power over their own powerlessness.

      I used to get regularly floored (pun?) by those who found fault and flaws in me, especially when it came like a punch out of nowhere and didn’t make sense within the context of the situation. Took me a while to realise that they were fighting their own ghosts, and they needed those haunters to be embodied by someone or something.

      Humour is a great balm when dealing with this crazy thing called human life 😉

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      1. I am full of flaws and faults and perhaps some other things at times, so it makes sense to recognize them in others, especially when they mirror your own. I agree after dealing with years of craziness, whether from narcissists or just abusive type people, it is important to notice some of those same quailities in others as a sort of defense mechanism. Looking too hard though can pose an issue.

        I checked out the link you posted and I find it slightly contradictory. I do not necessarily disagree with it, and I think I took it the way in which it was intended, but I felt like the wording towards the end was a bit off. To me “more authentic” would be a good thing, yet this blog posed it as an area needing work. I assume it meant that you could be more authentic, which seemed to make more sense to me due to the context of the previous paragraphs, but what do I know. I seem to have an innate ability to do things bassackwards and look at things I read in the wrong way. Interesting perspective nonetheless, it’s always good to see others point-of-views even if I don’t get it or agree with it. Thanks

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        1. I agree with you.

          I tend to do things upside down as well as back to front, and I’m never sure if I’ve read something correctly. The other day I noticed in the news that Gandalf’s son was going to be executed, I knew that wasn’t right but it took me several goes before I actually read what it said. But what about those times when I thought what I read was read, and it perhaps wasn’t?

          Remember a while back you helped me out when I read oxytocin as oxycontin. I had no idea I’d misread it, but I knew something didn’t make sense. I was so relieved when you cleared it up!

          Sometimes I’ll read a whole article and think it says one thing, then when I go back to it to reread it, I can’t find what I read because it’s not the same article even though it is.

          The mind is a strange place, prone to misperception… however the misperception may be more spot on than perceiving whatever it is as it is.

          There have been times when I have misheard what someone said, and what they actually said compared with what I thought they said can be rather intriguing to explore. It does depend on how badly I mishear, but even then it can be insightful, either about the other person or about myself, or just in a non-person kind of insight about life in general.

          Thank you 🙂

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  5. To answer the style question I don’t have one… I constantly oscillate between things and end wearing what I like and liking things that have nothing to do one with each other. And a native french speaker ( hello crazy grammar rules ) who got taught perfect french and practiced it at a high level for years I would say Fruit the grammar and let our speech be free so that we can share live breath and enjoy life. Grammar came after us communicating. So let’s put it back on its shelf.

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    1. Thank you for sharing 🙂

      Ah, but maybe your style is the not having a style style – enjoying personal freedom 😀

      I went to high school in Paris, and got perfect zeros when it came to grammar and spelling, I was quite good at understanding and speaking it… although a French friend once told me that I sounded sarcastic when I spoke in French. I explained that I always sound sarcastic even when I’m not making a sound.

      There was an experiment I came across a while ago in which a group was challenged to communicate only with physical gestures and body language, at first people were at a loss as to how to do this, but later everyone really enjoyed it because communication became a full body, mind and soul experience rather than just words.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. French grammar… 😩😩😩 love the experiment, that sounds fun and opening in a way words can’t ! 🌺🌺🌺

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  6. The whole “grammar Nazi” think is a mindf*ck…accusing those who care about language of being “haters”…

    And it’s important to care about language, if you want to write…because the mindf*ckers love to f*ck with the language to the extent that people can no longer use it as a tool for clear, honest thinking.

    “First confuse the vocabulary.” — Vladimir Ilyich Lenin.

    I would add: next, confuse the grammar. Grammar (or syntax) is the way, the pattern of logic, by which a piece of language means what it means — by which it means what we intend to say. Behind grammar is thought — yes, reason…clarity…logic (gasp) — and behind poor grammar is a lack of thought or awareness.

    Language is a uniquely human, uniquely conscious vehicle for expressing, expanding, and recording consciousness. It is a magnificent thing. And it deserves respect.

    But those who refuse to put in the effort required to learn to understand it, to respect it, and to use it cleanly, want to attack and blame those who do. (Not saying this is what you’re doing, not at all. Just food for thought, because calling others “grammar Nazis” (or “haters”) is another kneejerk “coolness” thing in recent years.)

    Here’s an example. It has become trendy to say of others, “He needs to get a life.” “She needs to grow up.” “They need to change.” But…without getting inside someone else’s head, who does a person think he is to insist that he knows what they “need” better than they themselves can know?

    What he (or she) really means by “he/she/they/it need(s) to…” is, “I need them to…”

    But s/he’s not honest enough with herself, or with them, to speak this truth, even if s/he is aware of it.

    Sound familiar? Sound like an epidemic you’ve maybe encountered in your life? Uh huh…

    So…just something to think about…if you’re so inclined. 🙂

    (…by the way, the “grammar” issue you referred to was actually a punctuation issue…which is a whole other issue…for another day!)

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    1. Thank you for sharing 🙂

      That’s an interesting perspective, and I can tell that this is a matter which evokes a lot of passion for you. I’d be intrigued to know the source of the passion, what lies beneath and within it. Our passions are deep waters wherein our style swims. Is t-Mercury in your 12th at the moment?

      I don’t think of those who correct people’s use of language as being haters or anything like that, I’ve done it myself on occasion, and I don’t usually mind it when people do it with me. As you said, they care about language and that is admirable. However there are times when I get the feeling that for some caring about language may be more important than caring about communication, and other people, and that sometimes it is not language they care about but something else, they are using it as a tool of power over others, and it is a display of ego, an indirect way of stating that they are a superior being. It’s a put down rather than someone being helpful and caring. Some people use it to derail the flow of another person’s thoughts, thus giving them the opportunity to step in and take over the conversation, or just to shut someone up.

      I grew up with a mother who constantly corrected my use of English, she particularly enjoyed correcting my pronunciation while I was trying to express a thought or share something. She did this regardless of what I was saying, and would interrupt me to give me a lesson, whether it was appropriate to do so or not. This made her feel important, and highly educated compared to me. She liked to remind me that I was a stupid bug she could crush whenever she wanted to do so. She took great pleasure in teasing me, especially about the mistakes I made due to my dyslexia.

      She never let me forget the time I wrote a dedication on a painting to her and my father backwards, it was funny, especially as I had spent a rather long time trying to figure out which direction was the correct way for the words to go, however she was not teasing me about it in a caring manner, she used to bring it up whenever she needed an ego boost, or whenever she felt that I was showing signs of confidence in my ability to read and write.

      She was not interested in communication, nor did she care about others, and she really did not give a toss about language, she just wanted to flaunt her talent for being correct. She did it with manners too, which was rather amusing as she rudely interrupted people to correct them, but it was alright if she did, but woe betide anyone who did that to her.

      My father taught himself English, to read, write and speak it, he became very fluent, but would occasionally make mistakes which my mother would immediately point out for all and sundry, even if he was in the middle of an important discussion.

      As I see it, it’s fine to correct people, especially if their mistakes make your ears and eyes bleed, however it needs to be done with care, context needs to be considered, and it should not be more important than communication itself. If someone is intelligent enough to correct your grammar, then they should be intelligent enough to understand what is being said even with incorrect grammar, spelling, punctuation, et cetera. If a person can’t understand what you are saying because you’ve used ‘their’ instead of ‘there’ or ‘they’re’, then they probably won’t understand what you’re saying even if it is perfectly correct as they are not listening to you, they are listening to their ego chatting away in their head, prompting them to find flaws in others because that’s how ego gets its kicks.

      Thus correcting others use of language can be similar to what you pointed out about people talking about themselves indirectly.

      I probably should not have added that bit about grammarians to my post, but when I saw the error on the quote I heard my mother’s naggy voice going me,me,me,me,me,me,me,me,me (I left out the spaces between the me’s because my mother could prattle on non-stop without pausing to breathe), and so I wrote what I wrote to shut her up 😉

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      1. “Our passions are deep waters wherein our style swims.” What an intriguing thought. Thank you for it.

        I have inadvertently touched a sensitive place for you here, and I sincerely apologize. Such was not at all my intention. Good heavens, what horrid things you suffered from your mother. Shut her up as often as you darn well need to.

        You are absolutely right that some people use correction as a weapon…both to hurt an adversary and to control him or her. And that they’re not interested in conversation at all…not even in communication really, because they only know the one-sided way…except perhaps when they pick up on their “opponent’s” weak spots for future reference…that much they do take in.

        Have you noticed, by the way, how many people nowadays make the whole conversation about themselves, their stuff, their families/grandkids/hobbies/ailments/etc., and hardly ever allow you to get a word in of your own…and heaven forbid they actually ask a few questions to draw you out and make you feel welcome, let alone listen to your full answers? And during what few moments you might get to talk, they’re too busy preparing their next remark, and waiting to pounce as soon as you take a breath, to listen to anything you say? Or maybe it’s just me. 😉

        I’ve taught writing courses before, and worked with participants one-on-one to look more deeply into improving their own writing…but I think I can truly say that my approach has been one of gentle humor and encouragement toward clear personal expression rather than nitpicky rule-following. Many people feel a lot of insecurity in this area, and gentleness serves much better than ridicule, punishment, righteousness, and all that nastiness.

        I warmly agree with you that if the message gets across, with goodwill, that’s the vital thing. Having studied several other languages myself (and made lots of mistakes!), I try whenever I can to meet another person wherever they are on a conversational level. It’s fun that way, and laughter allows both participants to learn something. There’s a time and place for corrections, and other times and places for just letting it ride and winging it! You know…let someone learn to balance on the bike before you rip off the training wheels and give ’em a shove…or better, a friendly nudge.

        I don’t know quite why the subject is such a loaded one for me. I think it has to do in part with hearing and reading so much language that is inaccurate, irresponsible, and hurtful all at once, while few others seem to notice or care. Just to call someone a “grammar Nazi” — or any kind of Nazi other than an actual Nazi — is so far out of line, when you consider what it really means, that I guess it makes me feel sick inside. To call someone a Nazi is itself to call her a “hater,” among other things.

        Yet people think it’s okay, it’s even funny and cool. And so a concept that does, and should, mean something horrifying thus becomes merely trivial and trendy. That’s partly what I meant about confusing the language.

        And I find it very hard to converse with the people I meet who, because they’ve accepted looseness like that in their language and thinking, can’t understand or care about the deeper things I sometimes think, and want to talk about. Seems there are more and more such people nowadays, and that drains and alienates me. (Again, I don’t mean you…and if I implied I did, then…my apologies once more.)

        Maybe that’s partly my Mercury in Scorpio talking (and why I liked your “passions are deep waters” quote). Then, too, I’m a Virgo rising with a Gemini midheaven, so I’m rambling here. 😉 Tr Mercury will enter my 12th in a few days, but I don’t think that’s really the story here…it’s more ingrained than that!

        Thanks for being such a lovely conversationalist yourself. I learn a lot through these chats with you. And that’s a neato pic of you in your patches and chenille.

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        1. No need to apologise or worry, Beth, I’m not a delicate flower who bruises at the slightest touch 😉

          Actually I love your straightforward approach, I prefer it when people say what they’re thinking, rather than me having to figure it out and read between the polite lines, etc – that drives me nuts!

          Feel free to call me out – I need it sometimes and always appreciate the fresh perspective.

          I agree about the whole ‘Nazi’ thing, and try to avoid using that word other than in its correct context. I saw an intriguing film recently – My Best Enemy (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1822255/) – it’s in German about WWII from a personal angle.

          Sometimes I think language needs a change, needs some rebellion and new twists, the old needs an injection of youth, and some aspects of the new usage of ‘Nazi’ as a general term beyond WWII, which has happened for several decades now (Seinfeld used it ages ago comically with regards to soup) is necessary even and perhaps because it makes us uncomfortable – forced to think about things beyond what we’ve become accustomed to thinking. There are times when we need to take the sting out of words, make them redundant, reclaim them, take the power out of them and do something else with it. So some truths need a new truth.

          I read this reply just before I went to bed, I was in insomniac mode last night, almost replied last night/this early morning but… I really needed to go to sleep, but just before I did that I read this – http://juliedemboski.com/2015/08/04/hidden-agendas-revealed-5-august-2015/ – which I think tuned into a vibe, one which connects with the discussion we were having as well as other aspects and tangents of it. Strange how some things which seem so personal have an universal element.

          People talking about themselves… we all do it, we just tend to be annoyed when others are doing it when we want to do it. We don’t want to listen to them prattling on about themselves, we want them to listen to us prattling on about ourselves. Yes, it’s more complex than that… but sometimes that’s kind of what it is. Why are you talking about you when I want to talk about me!?!

          Humans… oy vey!

          I asked you about t-Mercury in the 12th because it’s there for me and I was reading up on it, and it sometimes stirs up the sediment and reveals our own truths to us… truths which we may find uncomfortable and may want to hide, but it encourages the revealing and sharing of such things to free us from our own hidden agendas and what our hidden agendas do to us and through us do to others.

          I think you exposed a very important passion for you in your comments on this post. When we do that it’s a powerful moment, we need to embrace it and dive into those waters to find our swim style. It can be very scary… yet every scare is thrilling. It’s up to us to decide what we want – the thrill of freedom or the safety of hiding.

          Something like that… you know what I’m saying, you’re a deep inner sea diver.

          Speaking of which, did you read that news article about the free diver who has gone missing… I had a moment in life when that was my dream job, sort of… our dream job often reflects things which we can’t always put into words.

          See what I mean 🙂

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          1. No worries, Ursula, and thank you. I’ve never sensed you as a “delicate flower” or in any way weak or fragile. To me you seem very strong…enough to be identifying and healing your own wounds…and very empathetic…enough to be deepening your compassion and courage for self-revelation constantly, and graciously making allowances for the vagaries of humans in general, because you are honest enough to find aspects of those vagaries in yourself.

            I do sympathize with you, because I too have been targeted and harmed by narcissists…but I was lucky, able to break away sooner than you could, because you had to live with your abusers…you couldn’t just up and quit.

            Oh yes…Seinfeld’s “Soup Nazi”…Rush Limbaugh’s “FemiNazis”…those do go back a while! 😉

            You seem to argue for a kind of reinvention-resurrection of a term like Nazi, explaining that it would bring, perhaps in a “lighter” or less socially “loaded” way, the original meaning back into people’s awareness. I guess I see its effect as just the opposite: a dilution or demeaning of the full and horrible reality behind the word.

            So as “Nazi” comes to mean just some wacky, strutting soup chef who sets and enforces silly random rules in his shop…I have to wonder, will people who learn that meaning ever be able to grasp the vast, original horror behind the word?

            We could ask the same question about the term “narcissist.” Was it you who posted once about lots of people nowadays thinking that “narcissist” just means somebody who’s self-absorbed with his/her own looks, image, hotness, etc…so when you try to explain what narcissism as you suffered through is really about, they tended to dismiss your claims as way overdone? (I’ve read such a post somewhere, not too long ago.) Trouble is, in this case, “narcissist” has long carried that more innocent meaning. So…confusion and dilution and misperception become likely.

            I liked what you wrote about language needing some freshness and rebellion now and then — definitely true. Maybe sometimes it would be better to invent new terms that tell the full story of a dark reality, instead of possibly co-opting old terms. I’ve seen too much co-optation in my time and have probably grown rather overcautious of it.

            Well. Enough on that topic…unless you want to take it further. 😉

            Funny, I read that Julie Demboski post yesterday too! I think that learning about astrology does tend to tune one in to the bigger-picture vibes. I also have found that oftentimes, transits blast into effect for me unexpectedly, ahead of schedule. An astrologer once told me to expect that because I have natal Uranus rising, conjunct Ascendant from the 1st house.

            I’ll keep an eye on the tr. Mercury in the 12th…I have three power planets in my 12th…Mars, Jupiter, Pluto…all in Virgo, so I can be powerfully nitpicky, teehee…but then, maybe you’re right that some powerful gifts lie hidden here too.

            I’m working to choose thrilling freedom — and straightforward communication — over safe hiding…how about you? 🙂

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            1. Thank you 🙂

              Actually I was going in a slightly opposite direction with the word ‘Nazi’. The word is evolving and that’s its karma, path, what happens to words, to language. If you think about it, about any word, it is a bit like a human life. It is born, it goes through developmental phases, some of which change its meaning, evolving it, it is projected upon, used, abused, and sometimes it thrives, sometimes it gets traumatised… occasionally it dies… but may get revived, perhaps in its original form, perhaps reincarnated in a new form, or resurrected, maybe as a zombie.

              There’s a great site – http://phrontistery.info/ihlstart.html – which lists some archaic words. There’s also this – http://www.thedevilsdictionary.com/ – which is a humorous take on a dictionary.

              Even if we all agree on a word and its meaning, what that meaning means to us may still differ from what it means to others. ‘Lonely’ to one person may evoke horror, while to another it may be Nirvana (an intriguing word which has been changed over time due to its adoption by the West).

              As for ‘Narcissist’… I have, in a couple of recent posts, mentioned coming across different interpretations of it and its meaning. One post I read on another blog a few weeks ago (which may be the one you read – I don’t have a link to it) was written by a person (who I figured was probably in their 20’s) who was bemoaning the dissolution of meaning of it. They had learned the word in its new form – someone who has NPD – and they were afraid that it was evolving to mean people who were vain rather than people who had NPD. They were afraid and outraged by this. I mentioned in a post that they had got things a bit topsy turvy, and that ‘Narcissist’ once meant someone who was vain, and has now been adopted as meaning someone with NPD. I also referred to someone else, a blogger who is probably my age, who used the word ‘Narcissist’ in their blog title when the word still mainly meant someone who was vain, and they’d used it humorously… only to several years later find out that it had evolved to mean something much more sinister to people than it had originally meant and suddenly their blog title was attracting attention they were concerned about – people were going to their blog because they thought it was written by a narcissist (as in someone with NPD).

              All words evolve as language and communication evolves, as do humans. Try to keep them forever stuck in their original form and you’re stunting their growth, which may have a knock on effect for your growth. You’re running the risk of being a narcissist towards that word or turning a word into a narcissist who must never grow up, must never change, must always be who you want it to be for you, must always mean what you think it means and no other meaning is allowed, an idealised version stuck in time, a perfection which is illusory, an illusion you need but which others don’t necessarily adhere to. If you love the freedom to explore all that you are and can be, then that freedom needs to be given to others in the way that you want it for yourself, including those others known as words. If you’re saying it’s okay for you to change who you are as you progress through life, for you to be free… but words aren’t allowed to do that and be that… then there is a conflict/contradiction which needs to be explored.

              I’m always saying shit I shouldn’t say… being ‘straightforward’ when I should just shut up before I say anything 😉

              Have you read the latest posts on astrofix? One is this – http://astrofix.net/2015/08/04/uranusascendant-aspects/#.VcN9OkUZgnU

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              1. I spent a lot of time thinking about how to respond to this latest comment.

                Frankly, I was rather shocked by it. Obliquely or openly, in the span of a few days, you’ve called me or someone like me a Nazi, a Narcissist, and a denier of freedom.

                Because I value clear language and call out those who would twist it with harmful intent?

                Because you think I don’t allow *words* the freedom to evolve?

                Well. First of all, *words* don’t evolve or grow. Words are invented by people. People can and do choose to cause their meanings to evolve. (Just as I try pretty scrupulously to allow, even encourage, people to evolve.) I’m enough of a realist to know that, and enough of an idealist to wish people to be conscious of the process by which they do it — and others do it “for” them.

                But anyway.

                You might think you’re just being “cool” and freespirited with what you’ve written here. I don’t know. All I can say is, to me, some of your words have begun coming across as covertly hurtful, and overtly self-righteous…if I don’t agree with your way, then I’m the one with “problems”…which you are somehow qualified to diagnose for me, from a distance and without knowing me.

                I appreciate all the good you’ve done through your writing here. Truly, I do. That should be crystal clear to you from my comment history. And it’s your blog, and you’re free to write whatever you choose to.

                But this latest bit is uncool and goes too far.

                I say this not to censor or muzzle you, but to draw a self-respecting boundary.

                Even so…I’ve lost the desire to interact with you, maybe for now, maybe for longer…can’t say, and I’m rather sorry it’s so…but trust is like that.

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                1. I’m sorry to see you go, I have truly enjoyed our interactions.

                  You remind me of myself in some ways, without my mess of course, perhaps because we have similar charts. I probably should have done a comparison to see where our charts intersect, maybe my Mars and your Mercury connect, and I probably should not have discussed astrology with you the way that I did – it’s the way I discuss astrology with myself, how I use it to figure things out. I shared my own process with you, because of our chart similarities, and that was probably a bad idea of mine – I have Pluto in the 1st Rx, Mars in Scorpio and Saturn Square Sun, as well as having grown up with narcissists where the awful truth about yourself is daily bread, I can be rather brutal on myself, on my ego, and don’t mind tearing down my constructs to find what is going on underneath. I question my version of reality relentlessly.

                  When I do this openly and share it with others, it may perhaps make an interesting post on my blog, but posts are scattered in directionality, they’re not aimed at anyone other than myself, even when they’re aimed at someone else (like my parents). I work through my very human mess by blogging.

                  Sometimes someone takes what I say in a post personally, as being directed at them. There’s nothing I can do about that other than accept that if I’m blogging publicly, I have to take what comes. Sharing my problems and my process of trying to figure things out in my posts is one thing, if I do what I do in my posts in a comment (which I do) then it can be too much. I try to filter my intensity, tread carefully, but sometimes I fail. I’m not an easy person to know, I know that, which is partly why I remain aloof (that may come across as other things), I’m also very shy, and I’m always surprised when people stick around. I’m never surprised when someone wants to get away from me.

                  I felt comfortable talking with you as I do with myself. I really shouldn’t do that with other people, it always gets me into trouble. We do have very different Mercury’s, and mine sometimes gets carried away when I meet someone I feel safe chatting with, someone with whom I don’t feel the need to apply polite filters and be careful of what I say, someone with whom I can be straightforward, which in my case means I’m rather blunt and tactless. People rather like the latter in my posts, but not so much when they realise that’s what I’m like in person.

                  You mentioned on another post being an INFJ, I’m an INTP – INTP’s are known for being awkward socially, especially when communicating, and rather mental.

                  I apologise for any pain which I may have caused you, it was not intentional, and had I known I would hurt you I would have kept my mouth firmly shut.

                  If you do decide to come back, you’ll always be welcome here.

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      2. My mother used to do the same, stop us mid-conversation to correct grammar… that was before we understood she had a below average IQ

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        1. Took me ages to figure out my mother wasn’t the genius she claimed to be. I learned so many wrong things as being right thanks to her. But ultimately we need to figure things out for ourselves, and having a narcissist for a mother is quite a good lesson about the world and all the humans in it 😉

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    1. Cat, I suppose one could also say that: sometimes WE spend so much time focusing on what we’re not… 🙂

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