Reasons to Avoid People

Avoiding people is something that I’ve been doing all my life in one form or another. If practice does indeed make perfect, then you could say that this is something I’ve perfected…

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judge me by yourself

(which in my case includes everyone, so to make your judgment of me easier start with you as I’m probably jonesing to avoid you when I’m with you…

ps. I could be jk-ing)

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except I don’t feel as though I have perfected it, partly because I often wish I wouldn’t do it and that causes a crack in the perfect facade and execution of a trait.

Avoiding people is a reflex that is stronger than I am… that statement is incorrect as that reflex emanates from me, so I am stronger than I am? Let’s just say that sometimes I would like to override the reflex but the reflex isn’t so keen on my doing that and my reasons for overriding it aren’t as strong as the ones for sticking with it.

Most of my thought out reasons for avoiding people come from the same place where my thought out reasons for not avoiding people often come from – experience of other people and their effect on you.

You know that thing we all do where we tell ourselves that we shouldn’t do what we want to do because other people have repeatedly told us that the way we are is not the way that we should be being (or at least it’s not the way they want us to be for them and that’s all the reason they need to tell us that – UR doing it wrong), so we end up doubting ourselves, disfavouring our natural inclinations in favour of unnatural ones which we think should be natural and we may conclude that what is natural for us is abnormal versus some parameter of ‘normal’ that… may be a parameter of normal that no one except one person does naturally but we all think everyone does it except us.

That’s one of the main reasons I avoid people and also why I think I shouldn’t avoid people.

There are just so many times you can listen to a lecture on – What’s wrong with you – according to someone else (who is of course totally not being hypocritical and is telling you this vitally important thing they must tell you because they’re helping you, fixing what’s wrong with you… which is really rather kind and considerate, empathic (they’d love it if you did this to them, right), of them… as long as you don’t take a time out from listening to their lecture to examine them and their words, deeds, etc, closely) before you find yourself  (full of holes that leak your individual life force out and away from you) becoming increasingly anti-social (because they’ve drained you of your energy, you need to retreat and recuperate, but they still want more of it and… soon this too will become something they find wrong with you – why are you always so lethargic (around them)!? What’s wrong with you… (them)!?).

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INTP Anger

(I like how this all began with – please remember that not everyone is the same. Why is that something we forget (when it comes to everyone but ourselves)?

As an INTP I have to admit this is fairly accurate considering it’s an unisex one-size-fits-all analysis. I’m always a bit stunned at how well generalised INTP stuff fits me.

I would like to add that INTP’s may tend to appear less socially awkward when we’re angry, in fact we can come across as suddenly being rather more sociable than usual because we’re more detached from what happens, we’ve ‘switched ourselves off’, don’t give an F, and superficially may seem more likable, more polite and socially correct. In other words we’re no longer rebelling, asking curious questions, questioning you and your version of reality, will say what you expect people to say, will agree with you, and seem interested simply because we’re not.

Or maybe that’s just me…)

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Speaking of being a certain way around someone (and that someone assuming that the way you are with them is how you always are)…

When I first met my partner (almost two decades ago), and we were in the full swing (-ing on a star) of the honeymoon phase of a relationship (much to the annoyance of those not caught up in the intoxication of falling in lurve), my mother (dum, dum, duh… ugh!) got very angry because she felt left out…

Amongst all the tantrums and tiaras which she threw at the time was – insisting that she have some alone-time with my partner. She was very cross that he had not requested an audience with her, after all she was the ‘expert’ on me (more so than I was) – why did he not seem to understand that!!!!

Being as sweet as he is, he obliged her and they went for a dinner alone together without me. It was a very weird scenario. This was not a test which this Capricorn (a sign notorious for testing people) had designed for my partner but since it happened – he not only passed it with flying colours, he blew me away with how he dealt with it (bloody Virgo’s will surprise you every time with how independent and unique they are).

He was forced to socialise with someone he had already concluded was… in buzzword lingo… toxic. In the short time that he’d had the pleasurable displeasure of knowing her my mother had played every game in her arsenal of arse.

Her bottom line focus was on killing our relationship because I belonged to her, she didn’t want to be alone and since she’d managed to alienate everyone in her life except me (because I was suffering from Stockholm syndrome of a sort)…

and she had tried every trick in the ‘I care for you (more than anyone else even you)’ manual of ‘not caring about you at all but disguising self-interest as interest in another’s well-being’… on me and it hadn’t ‘worked’ the way she wanted it to – to get me to alienate the only person brave (crazy) enough to love me for who I actually was…

Since she couldn’t get me to get rid of him, she decided…

To make him want to alienate himself from me by telling him during their private dinner that I was – prone to ‘black moods’.

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What makes an INTP smile

(this sums up what confused my mother about the love which had developed between me and my partner… we didn’t need her and she only knew how to relate based on ‘need’.

She was also a Leo trying to meddle with two Earth signs… when will Fire signs learn that Earth doesn’t burn like that)

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What my mother did not compute was that my ‘black moods’ were something I only had around her.

I was not like this with others.

The only times when my partner has experienced my ‘black moods’ over the years that we’ve known each other has been when I’ve had to deal with her and have had to recover from that kind of no deal ordeal.

But of course people never see you when you’re not with them (unless they stalk you and observe you from afar… and even then they may still project and transfer their own stuff onto you because you’re an ‘object’ of their affection and objects take on the forms/meaning we give them) so they tend to assume that who you are when you’re with them is who you are. Full stop.

And some people never consider if their perception of you is actually you or just their perception of you, because… their perception of you isn’t about you it’s all about them and that’s all that matters to them them. Their version of you is reality and fact as far as they’re concerned. Their view is the only view all other views will be nullified.

There really is no way of dealing with someone like this… other than avoiding them if that is possible.

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killing a killer - batman

(what if you kill more than one killer a la Dexter? You may still replace the first killer you killed and become a killer yourself but if you kill more killers surely the stats don’t remain the same… replies on a postcard to I’m not planning on doing this as a career move, I’m an avoider but  just asking because Batman brought the subject up and … questions)

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That incident with my mother was not unusual… except for the fact that that was one of the times that I didn’t ‘let her win’.

Growing up with her was one of many influences which made me prone to beign what is now sometimes termed – an avoidant personality disorder (some disorders may be caused by trying to bring some order to chaos).

My father wasn’t any better when it came to influencing my approach to ‘socialising’ with people.

My parents were narcissists – or at least that’s what that type of personality is called these days (as long as they aren’t the ones calling the shots and themselves, because they’d call everyone but themselves narcissists and other pleasantries like that).

My parents hated people – ergo their child had to hate people too (and since their child mainly only experienced people through them this was a relatively easy thing to do).

The real problem with me is… I don’t actually hate people. Never did (however I could hate the people who told me I had to hate people because they hated them and needed others to support their hate, the more the merrimiserabler). Never could toe the family line about that… especially when it came to people outside of the family sphere. They were actually far nicer than I was told that they were…

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INTP & emotional consolation

(INTP’s are often labeled as being ’emotionally inept’, unable to understand or handle emotions or even be aware that such things exist – this is a misinterpretation. A bit like when people think those with dyslexia are stupid (I have dyslexia, when you tell someone this they sometimes start speaking to you really slowly or talk louder… or they inform you that they know someone who is ‘retarded’ like you are and are good with people like you… sigh!).

INTP’s are ‘analysers’ – the analysis on certain ’emotions’ may result in realising that those ’emotions’ aren’t emotions at all but ‘e-notions’ – emotions born of thought. For example – someone didn’t reply to my text therefore I must now work myself up into an ’emotion’ about that by overthinking a situation which is far simpler and more logical (they’re busy or have nothing to say) than I am going to let it be. I am now ‘angry’, ‘upset’, ‘offended’ because I think I should be.

That’s not emotion – that’s you thinking yourself into emotion and then creating a drama out of nothing but an e-notion which you now expect everyone to bow down to an apologise or empathise (if they’re not your latest cause of your emotional drama).

In those instances I am going to end up offering practical solutions – like take a chill pill and stop seeing others as the servants of your ego’s needs. And I may end up siding with the person who upset you because… I can see that we’re headed to me being just another person who has upset you, so… I’m one of them rather than one of you.)

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and frankly those who hated people were far worse than the people they hated more often than not.

Even though I’m more of a people-avoider… and have been that way since probably always…

I still fanatsised about being not an avoider of people.

One of my favourite games as a child…

an only child not by choice… so please try to be kind (even if you have no experience therefore no understanding therefore no personal point of reference to enable intelligent empathy of the only child status) when judging only children for their onlychildness… if it had been up to me my parents would have bred like rabbits (hopefully without their children having to deal with myxomatosis) as then I would have had plenty of buffers between me and them (parental* attention may be a desired thing when you have to share it with siblings, but everything has a flip side… *differences in parents apply).

… when I was left alone in homogeneous hotel rooms (if left alone at home I did other loner things) to babysit myself while my parents went out socialising (something they loved to do… but hated doing, especially based on what you heard them say before and afterwards in front of non-existent invisible you-child), was to unplug the phone and use it as part of my play in which I pretended that I was working at hotel reception in charge of answering the call of many people who needed things… and it was my job to solve their problems, feed their needs for them…

it was a very weird game to play (but then again, in retrospect,  it sort of expressed what it was like to be a child of narcissists) considering that when phones ring I don’t answer them unless I have to and feeding need is something I’ve learned leads to more need needing feeding and nothing you feed it is ever enough for such hunger…

but the innocence of youth or the insight of it…?

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born with a warning sign

(we all are born with warning signs – human – but we don’t tend to heed warnings)

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Someone recently asked me on this blog, on one of my narcissist posts: As you have suffered like my husband [edit – by being the child of narcissists] can you tell me would you criticize someone who loved u in pressure of your family if at all u believed that someone truly loved you.

That’s a good question but can one person answer it for another?

Especially when the person you’re asking to answer your question about someone else doesn’t know you or that someone else…

Can I speak for INTP’s, Capricorns, children of narcissists, other avoiders of people… or can I only speak for myself?

With this sort of question I tend to offer my own experience (please remember that not everyone is the same – like the INTP Anger excerpt pointed out),

and I may, depending on how… INTP… I’m feeling and what I’m feeling from the comment, also suggest that the person asking that kind of question review how they’re being experienced by others (by their significant other) and also how they’re viewing others and what they perceive others to be being and doing…

What I mean by this is – when I avoid people I know why I’m avoiding them and it often isn’t about them but about me (the history of me), but others may perceive my actions as being about them (due to their own history or herstory), and therefore they may react towards me and my behaviour based on that and… we get caught in a cycle of I’m rejecting you because you rejected me (with both sides perpetuating this over time, thinking the other person started it, even though maybe no one is actually rejecting anyone and everyone is just reacting to the perception of rejection and the e-notions which go with that).

Maybe the person who you think is criticising you isn’t criticising you, they think you’re criticising them and reacting to that as you are reacting to it… or maybe they’re criticising you because they’re passing on what someone else has done to them and this is how they’ve learned to communicate, they don’t know any other way, may be too afraid to try another way…

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communication Bizarro comics style

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in case doing things another way brings about everything they’ve tried to avoid…

but doing things the usual way may also make what you’re avoiding happen too…

which brings me back to sometimes trying not to do what my reflexes tend to want to do.

Still trying to work things out in my relationship with myself, so please be patient with me if you want a relationship with me and… I’ll be patient where vice versa is concerned. Let’s see whose patience runs out first (mine is ruled by Saturn).

And no… I have no idea what this post is about anymore… just #blame it on Brexit.

 

 

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8 thoughts on “Reasons to Avoid People

  1. Well I wear my heart on my sleeve – to my peril! I told him in the midst of what was happening. It’s not as if I told him once a time back please do not ever do this to me – I told him while we were having an exchange – his was “I still love you but it hurts you don’t seem to believe me and I feel like I keep hurting you and disappointing you – I don’t know where to go from here.” – so I assumed – yes I ASSUMED – and I admit it was wrong – that he wanted out – just couldn’t say he wanted out. He was treating me in a way to push me to do the ending. I felt that way with the other one as well. They blow hot and cold – I’ll be patient for a bit – but then I catch something and I say “What is going on here?” or something like that – then they have a reason to say in one form or another it’s a problem with me and my perception. So I guess I need to consider that a lot.

    I emailed him and ended it – believing I would hear SOMETHING – but I got nothing. I emailed him again and then a final time – and still nothing. So I gave up. Let him be. Hoping some day in the future I might hear something from him.

    Today I discovered he has blocked me on FB. Now THIS has me reeling. It’s what I was first told to do with the N’s in my life. What I have advised others to do. Block them – they are bad people – go NC! And now – I am on the receiving end of it. I let him alone, haven’t contacted him in 2 months – been moving on with my life – and now I’m blocked. I feel like I must be an awful person, and that I must have hurt him terribly. Or that he feels I’m crazy, unsafe whatever.

    I feel so messed up – all I ever wanted was a happy loving relationship and I feel that wasn’t meant to be for me. Because of my upbringing. Either that or I have to learn to re-define what that means for me. It seems when I have a good man – who is everything I want – I’m not attracted to him.

    I crave romance and excitement to a degree – I had a stable guy in my life – well we’ve had our issues – but overall very stable, always treated me well – and yet I’m not attracted to him in the same way. In fact often times I’ve felt repulsed by him. And I have yet to know what to believe about that. Is it because I find bad guys – more attractive – that old cliche? Is it because it’s what I learned growing up? Always have more questions than answers these days. I can’t stand it.

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    1. That’s an intriguing insight which you’ve shared about having a stable guy yet not really wanting him, not being attracted to him and what he had to offer.

      It seems to be a human thing to not be attracted to those who are attracted to us and to be attracted to those who perhaps aren’t attracted to us. Or to go for the ‘bad’ boy/girl rather than the good one. But which one are we to others?

      Are you the good or the bad girl/woman to these men who are attracted to you? Are they attracted to you because you’re the ‘bad girl’ or the ‘good girl’?

      When looking at relationships it’s worth going outside of yourself and seeing the story beyond your own story. Seeing the story who the others you’re involved with are living out, just as you are living out your own story. It can be surprising to do that and can fill in the ‘blanks’ in our own story. We’re not always who we think we are in our story when we look at ourselves from the perspective of someone else’s story.

      This song from this TV series (which is rather surprisingly dark and brilliant) is an eye-opener – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhzN7SfnNeY

      It almost seems as if you’re asking – what is the price of your craving for ‘romance and excitement’?

      As far as being ‘blocked’ on social media is concerned – this is such a regular practice that if I was you I’d read as little as possible into to it because it’s a trendy thing to do and people block left, right and centre, then unblock with the same ease. The most common reason people block others is due to a fit of pique, to make a point about them being hurt and wanting to ‘block/blot out the source of their pain’.

      If someone blocks you it doesn’t mean that they think you’re a narcissist, it simply means they have an issue with you and that issue is most likely personal to them and not personal to you.

      Males tend to block others on social media for more personal, practical and logical reasons than females do the same thing. Females tend to use it more often to make a ‘point’ which they want the other person to know about, they want others to notice that they’ve been blocked and to feel the burn of the block. Males tend to do it because they don’t want to see your feed (females often spy on the person they’ve blocked through a mutual friend’s social media account to see if they ‘blocking’ has been noticed and felt). So, he probably just doesn’t want to know you’re doing fine without him, he doesn’t want to see any posts you make regarding you moving on from him, you having a life which doesn’t include him, you being in a new relationship with another guy, or about how your relationship with him hurt you, or was narcissistic/toxic/etc. He’s ‘blocked’ the pain he feels with regards to you rather than you.

      Be careful when applying to others the motives which you have for doing to them what they may be doing to you – sometimes it’s the same and sometimes it is different. Don’t hurt yourself with what you use to hurt others because they hurt you – this way leads to pain complicated by our own complex psyche.

      Right now your focus should be on getting to know yourself, accepting yourself, and understanding that you’re a massy human and it’s okay to be a messy human 🙂

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      1. Thank you very much. I am an incredibly messy human. I’m feeling better about it today and understand he had to do what he had to do – his reasons. I do what I do for mine. He has a story and I have one. When I feel emotional pain – it’s so intense at times and I can’t think straight and it takes A LOT of self control not to react self destructively. I had to fight not to contact him – but I did not do that. He blocked me for whatever reasons – but that’s not an invitation to connect. I mean he may think it would prompt me to – or hope it will – I don’t know. We’ve never even been friend on FB. So I would never be in his newsfeed. He would have to go to my page and look and see anything I make public. Which isn’t a lot. But perhaps he kept going to my page and it isn’t helping him move on. It’s no longer any of my business though.

        I also just recently discovered something online about my estranged N father. A part of his life with another woman I had no clue about. It sent me into a dark place – combined with discovering the block from the other person.

        Anyway – thank you so much for your responses. I tend to come here and post in a stream of consciousness sort of way and rant and you are so kind to respond to it.

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        1. Stream of consciousness/rants are a wonderful way to gets things inside out into the open. Sometimes saying something makes it lose it’s power over us, and sometimes it gives us power.

          Finding new things out about your parents is always strange, especially when it’s about a life they kept separate from you, it’s like suddenly discovering that they’re this whole other person and it can rattle the image you have of who they are.

          Take good care of your beautiful messy human self, there’s a lot to love and enjoy about embracing yourself in all your shades and hues 🙂

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  2. Practicality and logic have served me quite well over the years. As has being an ‘avoider’.
    I enjoyed your post and, no, it wasn’t difficult to remember its purpose–or I suppose–what I believed its purpose to be.
    Thank you for sharing

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  3. “I have no idea what this post is about anymore” – LOL I have to say I became rather confused by this post. But it is about avoiding people right?

    I’m having a rough morning. I’ve been feeling a lot of pain over the ending of the relationship I mentioned on another post. The ending began because in my view he was avoiding me. Disengaging. I’d rather have anything else other than a person I care for and believe they care for me – disengage from me. I’d rather have a knock down, drag out fight, sit and hear criticism, take a break from the fight ring – breaks are okay, but agree to return and fight it out – or work it out – or agree to disagree and part ways – but it’s done together. You don’t leave the other hanging with the unfinished business. To me it’s very unfair. But life isn’t fair is it?

    Yes he was avoiding and disengaging – and I now have some ideas as to why this may be. I’ll never know for certain – but my thoughts are there was definitely something going on making him feel ashamed and a big fat failure – something he could not hide – so he pulled a slow fade – started avoiding – I reacted – pushed – he was still engaged to a degree – but at the same time “checked out” – finally I suggested we part ways – he was hurting me and claimed he hated hurting me – I was hurting him by expressing my disappointment in his behaviors. I suggested we part ways because I believed it is what he wanted. My hope of course was that he would respond with “No. I don’t want that.” Of course I also knew the possibility would be he would respond with “It sounds like it would be best to end this. I’m sorry. Goodbye.” Whatever – but he never gave any response at all. Just left it. THAT hurts me like hell. I was VERY SPECIFIC with him that is the one thing he could do that hurts me – and it’s as if he followed a blue print I handed him.

    There are a lot of ways to avoid people. I avoid others A LOT. I’m in the store shopping and run into a person I know – my MO is to look away quickly pretend I haven’t seen them – hope they haven’t seen me, hope they will not come over to say “Hi!” – hope they believe my “act” that I haven’t seen them at all – so I’m not “avoiding” them – I just don’t know they are there. But I do know. I just don’t want the social exchange or small talk. And I have my reasons for it.

    I have avoided others in my past after experiencing something that caused me to feel ashamed of myself, or feeling that I have failed. When I was younger -18 – I started to avoid my friends. Stopped going out, going to parties, I couldn’t show my face to others anymore. I simply wanted to hide away from the world. My life was a mess, I was different from the rest, they were all “healthy” and “happy” and my parents f*#ked me over.

    I avoid conflict. I avoid with people I don’t know well and can’t be sure it’s safe to have conflict with them. Which is basically everyone, except for a very, very, small number.

    I avoid because I lack proper assertiveness skills and confidence. I avoid for many reasons.

    But there are different types of avoidance. Different ways and reasons for avoidance. Sometimes it’s intentional. Sometimes it’s not.

    I don’t know. I’m confused over a lot of this stuff lately.

    You also mentioned perception. The person I experienced who brought me into the whole narcissism thing – who lead me to learning about it – killed me emotionally with that idea. I told him I felt he was being disrespectful and his response to me was “That’s your perception and your reality.” – So his disrespectful and hurtful behavior was all in my own head? That was crazy making, hurtful, made me feel incredibly stupid and confused.

    I avoid and others avoid me. I guess in my experience the people I considered disordered – the narcissists – avoid me when I have expressed my hurt to them – how they have hurt me – and get an icy cold response or no response at all. They simply do not care that I am hurting. It’s my problem to deal with. They avoid taking any responsibility for their own behaviors and how it affects others.

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    1. I like when I ramble, go off on tangents, and lose tracks of the point, it can be revealing and it always brings things to light 🙂

      It’s so often the way that what you fear the most ends up happening. It’s almost as though the fears we focus upon create a magnetic draw to us. A bit like the whole ‘power of positive attraction’ only this is the ‘power of negative attraction’.

      I’ve had quite a few similar experiences of people doing to me what I had specifically told them never to do with me. I don’t know whether it’s really fair to put that kind of burden on someone else, of expecting them to remember not to do something to you, as it creates a mutual pressure for you to remember everything they’ve told you not to do to them, and if you accidentally do to them what they’ve asked you not to do… this opens up the door for them to retaliate, even though you didn’t mean to do that thing… well maybe they didn’t mean to do that thing either.

      Many people retreat into silence,. Going silent, ignoring people, evading and avoiding them – all things that go with many different tactics for dealing or not dealing with others while we’re dealing or not dealing with our own issues. So it can be hard to determine if they’re doing it deliberately (as in you said don’t do this and so they do exactly that because they know this will get to you and hold your attention, hurt you) or if it’s something that’s a by-product of them retreating into their own shell and it has nothing to do with us and everything to do with them.

      Sometimes we get lucky and can figure out what occurred, but often we end up having to make do with guesses – and those guesses vary based on how we’re feeling about ourselves, life, other people.

      In relationships things tend to be okay if we do them to others and not okay when someone else does them to us. We often get upset with others when they do to us what we may do to them – we know why we’re doing it to them (and it often has nothing to do with them, so why are they taking it personally) but we don’t know why they’re doing it to us (and we tend to take it personally even when it has nothing to do with us).

      Human relationships are where all our issues come out to play with the issues of others – and that kind of play usually ends up with someone getting hurt. Chances are the things which hurt us the most aren’t even things the other person did to try to hurt us.

      It’s always interesting to explore what gets to us. We may never know if someone else intended to get to us with somethign they did or said, or didn’t do and didn’t say, but we can know how it affects us and why.

      His statement – “That’s your perception and your reality.” – is spot on really. It applies to him as much as it applies to you. It applies to all of us. We never really see others as they are, we see them as we are. But sometimes we think they see us as we are and it is deeply painful when we’re reminded that perhaps that was an illusion.

      In some ways this ‘his disrespectful and hurtful behavior was all in my own head’ is true because your mind had to decide that his behaviour was disrespectful and hurtful. Your head assessed the situation and your interactions with him and concluded what t concluded – his head concluded something else. But just because something is ‘all in your head’ doesn’t mean that your perception is wrong. It doesn’t mean that his perception is wrong either. Sometimes opposing views exist as being equally right and equally wrong.

      There is a middle ground where such differing perspectives on the same scenario can meet and find things in common or at least understand each other, but that requires detaching from your own perspective for awhile and seeing things from not your perspective but form the perspective of someone else (someone who your perspective says is seeing things wrong). This can be enlightening but also rather frightening, especially when you find that both perspectives have merit – then which one is right and which is wrong? What if they both are?

      I find it helps to see things from the other person’s perspective… if only to get me to move on from where I’m stuck. Getting stuck on what something said, did, didn’t say or didn’t do… we’re powerless over that, we’re waiting for them to change the stuck place for us, but what if they’re stuck there on their side of it too waiting for us to change the stuck place for them?

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