I hope you’ve been enjoying my particular (and possibly peculiar) take on the houses in astrology and how to use them while attempting to read your natal chart.
I ranted a bit, raved a lot, talked exhaustively and extensively about me, me, me… which is actually okay and not something to feel ashamed about as the first 6 house of the zodiac wheel are all about the me – how I (or you) experience myself and my self (or you experience your self and yourself).
But now it’s time to bid farewell to the intoxicating masturbatory side of this astrology series and turn attention towards the world outside of the me, others, friends, partners, work colleagues, society, the collective…
There will still be a fair amount of self involved in looking at others because we look at others, at what and who is outside of ourselves, through the self. It’s the self who filters what comes in from outside, what and who we notice and what we notice of what and who we notice – we tend to pay more attention to those things and people which are interesting to our self in some way.
I once got into one of those tricky situations which sometimes happen in relationships (especially now that we have social media to help make things even more complicated) – the utter and complete misunderstanding that fireballs into a flaming wreck – with someone I know because of something I tweeted. They took one of my tweets and made it personal to them, all about them, got every level of offended and upset about it, and confronted me as though I was the devil and they were going to sneeze me out of their nose. I hadn’t been tweeting about them or at them, I’d actually been tweeting at my dead father (who I had only just found out had died… I was estranged from him and him from me), getting some things out of my system and off of my chest which I hadn’t been able to do with him while he was alive…
I probably shouldn’t have done this on Twitter but…
Have you ever tried to grieve… while everyone around is fretting about you having a meltdown, so you have to pretend that everything is fine just to ease their fretting which is making the grieving process difficult to do as you’re also fretting about how the grief is going to hit you.
I thought that it was okay to do that on Twitter… it’s so impersonal and no one really reads your tweets, and even if they do they usually realise that you’re doing your own thing and it’s not about them because they’re also doing something similar. It’s a public forum where people often air private stuff… you’re telling strangers things you can’t say around those who know you.
Anyway… at some point during this mess of mixed messages… my tweet did become all about them – their outrage and refusal to accept my truth because – they knew why I had said what I had said better I did (never say something like that to someone like me. The frog in science class didn’t ask to be killed and dissected, but you just did if you say something like that and my scalpel is always kept sharp for special occasions like this) – made me see that the tweet about an issue which I had had with my father was obviously an issue which I should have with them too.
All I had said was that – you (my father) only feigned interest in me to get me to be interested in you (my father), but you (my father) were never interested in me just in what you could get from me.
excerpt from Beyond the Stars astrology – The 7th house: The Shadow Self
If you haven’t embraced your ‘shadow’, the dark side of you, it will be expressed by those you meet. What you have rejected will return to be accepted in your one-on-one relationships. Keep an eye out in your personal interactions for what you may transfer, project and refuse to integrate within yourself.
Usually I look out for people finding their personal wounds in me because this happens all the frigging time and has happened all the frigging time since I was… before I was even born – my reason for ‘being born’ was due to a relationship wound of someone else. In one version of my birth story I was created to ‘save’ my parents’ marriage – this ‘fix’ made things worse (so if you’re thinking of having a baby to ‘save’ your relationship with someone, to mend a rift between you and your soul mate or heal you and your significant other… you might want to try a different ‘fix’ or ‘cure’).
I have Chiron – the Wounded Healer – in the 7th house in my chart, in Pisces (a sign which sometimes represents the collective consciousness or the subconscious, as in dreams and the shit which goes down in dreams). Some of the interpretations I’ve read about this placement… well, they all seem to agree that if you have it you’re screwed in the realm of relationship (particularly one-on-one ones), even if they say it in a really flowery positive manner.
I could become a magician!!! Or a sorceress!!!!!!
this excerpt via Astrofix is actually not about Chiron in Pisces but about Chiron conjunct North Node (a karmic point of ouch!) which I happen to have because the Universe looked at my chart and decided that it wanted to complicate something which was already complicated enough as it had given me the kind of mind which loves puzzles and it didn’t want to give me one I could solve as then I might complain about being bored.
I included this excerpt here because it has some excellent questions worth asking of yourself regardless of whether you have this aspect or not, wherever your Chiron is and whatever it’s aspecting, it’s relevant whatever your astro… beyond astrology… if you hate astrology… are a totally committed skeptic about everything – these questions are still worth asking.
Only people with typo-phobia might have an issue with them… but why do you have an issue with typos? What does that type of issue really mean? And how does it affect your relationship… with yourself, others, the world around you?
The simplest way to describe the effect of Chiron in the 7th house of relationships…
can be found in this really long post I wrote awhile ago – A Story of Chiron in the 7th House – which gets far more ‘hits’ than I ever thought it would get… to be honest I was doing what I always do online, on social media, on my blog…
someone recently pointed out that they didn’t think my blog was aimed at them because I write so much about narcissists and this subject didn’t seem relevant to them and their life… that’s a good thing, no worries…
I told them that my blog isn’t ‘aimed’ at anyone except myself, my posts are conversations I’m having with myself while figuring something out – the real conversation is behind the words, like the wall behind a picture hanging upon it.
With Chiron in the 7th – others often hijack your wounds, your issues, your conversation (about your ailments… which is really boring when it’s about someone else, unless you can relate to their ailment and then you want to talk about your experience of that ailment) and make it theirs…
You can’t figure your stuff out when others are making it all about themselves… because others making it all about themselves is a part of your ‘problem’. Those with Chiron in the 7th have to figure their own shit out without help from others…
that’s not entirely true but the help others offer is to highlight your wound, rub it the wrong way, stick their fingers… no, treat it like a vat of grapes to jump into and stomp on until it turns to wine… except it usually turns to whine from them about how their feet are rotting due to the fruit acids, dampness… and they’re tired of doing this without getting an immediate reward, they thought squished grapes made wine, they didn’t realise it just made grape juice and… who is going to remove all those awful pits, seeds, stalks so this stuff is drinkable…
and their whine stirs up your whine… why me, why do I always end up having to push my own issues aside to help someone with theirs…
and so on…
somewhere along the way you may understand that their issues and yours are intrinsically linked… and it doesn’t have to be a vicious cycle of recycled pain from them to you, and you to them, and them to you…
As you cross the threshold of the Descendant and move into matters of the 7th house, and then onto the other interpersonal houses of the zodiac wheel…
everything that is you – Beginning with the Ascendant and moving through houses 1 through 6 – needs to sort itself out in the forum that is the rest of the world.
excerpt from The Twelve Houses by Howard Sasportas (imo best book ever about the houses in astrology)
Somewhere along the way you’re going to have to learn how to filter things… and process them… to eventually end up with a product, which you can share, offer, perhaps even sell as a product if you’re the sort who has to turn your wound into money, profit and gain from pain, etc…
That last bit wasn’t dismissive… if it came across that way it’s because I tend to space out, detach, when it comes to my pain and the rest of the world. I have often had people assume that I’ve never actually felt any pain at all, that I someone missed out on the gory glory of life, that the fact that I can smile and laugh means I don’t know how to cry and groan in agony.
Many years ago when I was at my most suicidal someone who thought they knew me well because they saw me every day told me that they enjoyed having me around as I was always smiling and they liked thinking that there were people in this world who hadn’t been touched by pain… the sort of pain they felt that they dealt with in their life daily.
I looked at them in a similar manner that I looked at that confrontational email which that person who thought my tweet was about them sent me… I was much younger then but the thought in the look was the same – You, person who isn’t me, know nothing about me but you think you do, you think you know more about me and my life than I do because you’ve filled me up with your own fantasies about other people (I’m a character on a TV show… and when you see the actor who plays them you call them by their TV show character’s name).
On that day I just smiled… the reason they’d said this to me was because I hadn’t smiled the way I usually did, I couldn’t move those muscles as I was at a very low ebb, and they wanted me to know that my job was to smile because I was a happy, lucky, never touched by pain, spoiled by the silver spoons of life kind of person… they didn’t need that bubble popped (I didn’t need them to have that bubble popped because I really didn’t want to deal with the aftermath of that).
On that other day many years and suicidal tendencies later, I just shrugged and thought – eff this shit! – and didn’t smile, let them keep their fantasy and bubble. We actually worked things out after much drama on their part… and we no longer know each other by mutual choice as the best way to go when your relationship ain’t going to go nowhere.
Billy Corgan – Chiron in Pisces in the 7th house
How people remember you is none of your business, it’s their business… it’s their memory, their mind, it’s their territory and you trying to impose a certain image of you in their mind is a form of mind control freakery…
I realise some people have a problem with me when I say things like that, but if I made your problem with me my problem too…
make it yours and you make your wound one which will never heal until they’re healed and they might not heal in a way which is the way that you want them to do so…
Sometimes we need to apply filters…
If we didn’t filter the world we’d go insane in a split second because there is so much stimuli and stuff happening.
Sometimes even when we’ve got strong filters on, the world intrudes, crosses our boundaries, trespasses and… sometimes we need for that to happen because we’ve become too insular and perhaps too isolated. This is particularly the case with introverts like me as extroverts tend to need and want to belong to that cacophony outside of the self…
inside the self can be cacophonous too.
I like the Corgan quote a lot and also your comment that follows it. I am strongly reminded of a former boss of mine (I’ll call him Kyle) who also used to be a friend of mine and my husband’s. During our divorce – it was messy although my former husband really thought that it wasn’t, and it was messy in very messy ways – Kyle (and his wife, who had also been a friend) stopped speaking to me. He used to look around me and through me and even went so far as to ignore me in meetings. If I said something, he pretended not to hear. This was also a career killer, as you might imagine. He took a personal situation and made it be professional, which wasn’t very professional of him. For a long time, I made his problem with me be my problem, too, and now, ta-dah, it’s decided to keep turning up again. Recently, it has been relentless and I’ve found myself becoming really angry at both him and my ex-husband. And I keep thinking, this is very old history; it’s not worth the air time it’s getting. But, I’m not sure if I’m just creating a problem for myself or whether I didn’t really deal with it in the first place. Something I’m chewing on …
It felt good to write about that. Thanks. 🙂
PS – unrelated to this post, but I just remembered it – I have bruxism, too. That’s why I had to get a root canal. I cracked a tooth while working out my problems in my sleep. Oy.
Bruxism sufferers of the world unite! I’ve been a lurker on forums where many people discuss their bruxism and their dentists’ inept solutions for it – here wear an expensive and painful to sleep in specially made for you mouthguard. Or get some botox injections to stop those muscles! Why don’t you just stop doing it – says someone who has never tried to stop something you do unconsciously. Sigh! Since dentists profit from fixing damage done by bruxism… hmmmm…
‘Kyle’ sounds like a typical human being who will only later realise that they behaved like a twat to the person they should have valued more… if he ever allows himself to have such a realisation.
Most people find it hard to separate business from the personal… especially if they’re under the influence of a narcissist.
The influence of a narcissist ripples into the lives of even those they only mildly interact with.
Being angry at ‘Kyle’ after so many years have passed… probably means there’s some unresolved issues connected to that dynamic and context. Maybe someone or something in the here and now reminds you of the there and then. There are many ‘Kyle’s’ in this world. Sometimes, regrettably, we’re ‘Kyle’. It could just be that with you being so logical and reasonable, you didn’t allow yourself to purge cathartically stuff from that time – maybe you’re getting a ‘second chance’ to just wail at a wall. Will you let yourself do it or logically reason yourself out of some primal scream therapy.
Old things often resurface in the present, sometimes just before we enter into a new phase of our lives… the question this kind of thing poses is – Do you want this in your suitcase? Is it necessary for your next journey?
‘Kyle’ is that pair of socks which… do you need them for your trip to Hawaii?
I missed a good joke up there – chewing on something … bruxism. 😀
I’ve worn those mouthguards, too. Or tried to. My darling Rudy chewed on about four of them because I kept taking them out in my sleep and dropping them on the floor. One time I found it in the shower – I think it was was stuck to me somewhere and washed off in there. I kept the dentist busy with the replacements, that’s for sure. I’ve now given up on them completely, even though I just got lectured a bit for not wearing one. I hadn’t heard of the botox “solution” though. That’s got to be interesting – I guess you eat through a straw after that? 😉 I agree completely. Sigh.
Thanks for listening to my Kyle hang-up. 🙂 When I re-read what I wrote I saw that I hadn’t explained that I was divorcing my non-narcissistic husband. Yup. I’ve got two ex-husbands. My first ex comes from a wealthy family and also has a lot of status in the community through his work, and I found that many of my “friends” disappeared when we split up. They chose to maintain a relationship with the one who is more connected. I found that difficult at the time as part and parcel of the whole divorce bit, but I also realised that I didn’t really want to have a relationship with any of them, either. I thought the situation with Kyle would be different, though, in the sense that we had to work together and I also thought that he was above that kind of behaviour – I think part of what I’m saying is that I admired him and then was disappointed when he didn’t live up to my expectations for him.
You’re probably right that I either need to grieve properly or there’s something reminding me of him right now or it could be a sort of final letting go. And I love your socks for Hawaii metaphor – I really don’t need to pack this particular baggage. 🙂
The Kyle story (with or without narcissist involved) is an example of a ‘marker’. An event, interaction, incident which sums something up for the psyche. It’s not dissimilar to dream language – where our subconscious uses a person to represent something, so we know that when we dream of ‘Kyle’ it = the Kyle dynamic. And our mind may use ‘Kyle’ as a warning, a reminder, when it perceives someone or something similar.
Occasionally the psyche does a clear out, clean up, re-jigs itself due to change and ‘marker’ stories may come up for review. DO you really need this story now or have you integrated the lesson. Is there something more to learn which you missed the previous times you reviewed it which you are ready to see now. Who is ‘Kyle’ and does he hold a missing piece of you, your puzzle for you.
I have a few ‘Kyle’s’ of my own and they tend to pop into my conscious mind at various intervals. Sometimes it’s a good way of seeing where we are with issues which we’ve had, a bit like being visited by a ghost of Xmas past.
You’ll figure it out – it’s always interesting to ask why something has resurfaced!
Thank you. 🙂 A very insightful comment. 🙂 I like how you have described the Klye story as a “marker.” That makes complete sense. I will figure it out – I’m a plodder (and chewer, too, my teeth prove it 😉 ).
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From a fellow Chiron in the 7th – thank you for your blog. It takes me time to read through your posts because they are so beautifully dense and packed with information – and always give me such a different perspective on things that I often stumble and need time to reorient. Yet this is exactly what keeps me coming back. Amazing – thank you so much for sharing 🙂
Thank you very much for sharing 🙂
That’s actually a good description of what I do when I write posts – often stumble and reorient. I find that writing my thoughts out this way helps me to see either what I’ve been missing, what’s really bothering me, or a different perspective.
With Chiron in the 7th being able to shift the position you’re looking at things, especially a relationship, a person, aids in seeing your relationship to them, for them and with them – the wound is never quite what we think it is, and yet it is.
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