What do you want in a relationship?
Why do you want those things in a relationship?
Do you give to others what you want them to give to you in a relationship?
Do you really give to others those things that you want them to give to you in a relationship or do you just think that you do, tell yourself that you do, tell others (perhaps during one of those – I’ve done all of this positive stuff for you and you’ve done nothing for me except all of this negative stuff – arguments) that you do, but if you were radically and brutally honest with yourself, if you genuinely self-reflected on all the problems you have in relationships (which you may blame others for being the cause of) and truly wanted to see the truth which your genuine self-reflection would reveal to you, would you find that maybe you don’t give them what you think and tell yourself , and tell them, that you do, and that maybe you’re giving them what you don’t want in a relationship?
What don’t you want in a relationship?
Do you give those things which you want in a relationship to yourself in your relationship with yourself?
Do you give those things which you don’t want in a relationship to yourself in your relationship with yourself?
Why should someone else give to you what you want in a relationship if you don’t give those things to yourself?
Has it occurred to you that if you don’t give those things to yourself in your relationship with yourself that you can’t give those things to others either, no matter how much you want to and tell yourself that you do, and that you may not recognise or accept those things when someone else gives them to you in a relationship because you’re not giving them to yourself and therefore may be blocking yourself from receiving those things from others and from yourself?
Do you know what others want in a relationship?
Have you asked them?
Have you listened to them when they told you?
Have you really listened to them to hear them or did you un-listen and un-hear them because they were not telling you what you wanted or were able to hear?
Do they want the same things as you?
What happens if they don’t want the same things as you?
What happens if they do want the same things as you, but they don’t think they’re getting those things from you even though you think you’re giving them to them?
If you’ve made it this far down the post, and haven’t given up on your relationship with this post – What do you want from your relationship with this post?
What do you want this post to give to you?
You’re investing yourself into this post by reading it.
When we invest ourselves in something or someone, we usually want a return on our investment – What interest do you want to receive on your investment of interest in this post?
Even if you’re just reading it to distract yourself from your family during an official be with your family to prove to them that you love them holiday somewhere in the world wherein you forced yourself to do what people are supposed to do during this time and you feel bored, tired, annoyed, angry, fed-up (maybe in a literal sense – you’ve eaten too much)…
Have you ever wondered about how a post like this gets started, how it keeps going, how it ends up where it ends up?
Have you ever thought about the post writer’s relationship with their posts, and maybe asked yourself – What does that blogger get out of their relationship with their posts?
Of course, asking the last question in that run of questions, doesn’t necessarily require much personal thinking for yourself thought as if you spend quite a bit of time online – someone else has probably done the thinking for you and told you what to think. And if enough people agree with that, then that’s that, no more thinking of the hard thinking for yourself (especially if it goes against popular thinking) kind, required.
Recently Reese Witherspoon gave a speech at an event. In that speech she stated something along the lines of – “today’s women want real substance and thought-provoking entertainment across all platforms” – which was a good point until she took a pop at Mommy Bloggers by adding – “And I’m not talking about mommy blogs and 14 ways to cook a turkey.”
OUCH! But that’s not the complete ouch story. If you go to the blog where I read about this (Warning: It’s a gossip blog and it’s very acerbic) – Dlisted | Reese Witherspoon Angered Mommy Bloggers – and check out the comments (which is often a significant portion of the reason to read blog posts) on that post you’ll see that Mommy Bloggers have quite a reputation, and people have already decided what that type of blogger gets out of their relationship with their posts.
Since I’m not a Mommy, and my blog is definitely not a Mommy blog (you do not want to know how I would cook a turkey, but just in case you do – slather it in butter, salt, pepper, herbs, put it in the oven and wait until I can’t wait any longer because I’m ravenously hungry. Hopefully I’ve remembered to put the oven on and take out the giblets), I only follow one or two Mommy blogs and neither of them fit the Mommy Blogger stereotype which is used in that post and in the comments on that post.
I do sometimes look up how to cook something (not a child – and saying things like that is why I’m not a mommy by choice), and therefore I sometimes end up on Mommy Blogs, and those Mommies have been very helpful. I haven’t explored the dark side of Mommy blogs… but as a child of a narcissist mother, I’ve kind of had my fill of that.
A blogger’s relationship with their blog can be as complicated and complex as a person’s relationship with another person. And just as other people weigh in on our personal relationships, because they have a relationship with our relationship just as we do, so there are people who weigh in on a blogger’s relationship with their blog because they have a relationship with the blog too (even if it’s just with one post).
If you’re one of those people whose relationship with blogs, the posts of bloggers, is mainly a source of self-esteem boosting in the form of – that blogger/post is wrong, they/it are/is so wrong it pisses me off, I want to tell them how wrong they are and simultaneously tell myself how right I am, I could do it so much better than them…
I have something to give you (and no, it’s not the finger – I use my fingers for typing and can’t spare any), it’s this:
Here is the link – WordPress
(I could have added the link to the image but I hate it when I’m on a blog, click on an image to see it more clearly and get sent elsewhere without my permission, being given the choice)
For those who have crossed the blogger/blog reader barrier and commented on a post on my blog to tell me how wrong I am – Yes, it does piss me off. Well done you. I’m human even if you might not be sure about that, and if you tell me I’m wrong, criticise me, poke me, punch me, stab me, eviscerate one of my posts and me (because my posts are a part of my me), then I’m going to have a very natural and normal human reaction which might be categorised as unhealthy, negative, toxic, narcissistic, overly violent for such a small thing as you telling me how wrong I am.
If you’re telling me how wrong I am while also telling me how right and righteous you are – well, hello mommie dearest, still doing the same old ego-masturbatory practice when you’re feeling all no one recognises your brilliance so stamp on someone else’s brilliance (oh, yeah baby, I’m totally calling my mediocre shit brilliant! or maybe I’m not but you are by your need to tell me it’s not worth shit?) which you wish was yours, which you feel may be the reason why your brilliance is going unrecognised – there are just too many mediocre people who think they’re brilliant but they’re not, and you’re going to enlighten them… while also hoping to remove yourself from the shadow you believe they’re casting over you. Why do those idiots get to talk at all, why do those other idiots listen to that idiot!?! Why aren’t those idiots listening to you, you know what, you’re going to tell that talking idiot to shut up, you’re going to put them in their rightful place which is in the wrong, and then everyone who is listening to that idiot will want to listen to you and hear more of your brilliance!
I have to make an apology to all of those who read my posts, read the comments on my posts, and who may also comment and share themselves with me.
I sometimes say – Thank you for sharing 🙂 – to people who have made rude, passive-agressive, bitchy, negatively critical, angry, nasty, or something of a similar ilk type of comments.
I didn’t always do that.
I used to say what I wanted to say (that was part of the pact I made with this particular blog of mine – there’s no point in my blogging if I’m not going to say what I want to say, but when it came to replying to comments I sometimes strayed from the pact), but… if the other person was a dedicated passive aggressive, a passive aggressive narcissist, a narcissist, a very narcissistic person, or a person caught up in the negatively narcissistic phase of their personal journey (which can happen to all of us when we’re in pain)… then saying what I wanted to say could end up in a long and tiresome argument and drama in the comments on a post.
As a blogger you need to be mindful that your comment conversation can be read by others. I’ve not always been mindful of that, and you can see the different kinds of messes I’ve made throughout my blogging journey, both in posts and in replies to comments, as I leave most of it out there to be seen (to remind me of myself and all the me’s who are a part of the whole me).
At some point I decided to deal with negative comments the way I learned to deal with the narcissists and narcissistic type of people in my offline life – I thank them for their input, smile, and then walk away (if I can, otherwise I just fantasise about doing it, and in some ways I’ve lived out the fantasy by saying what I said).
Since a lot of narcissists and narcissistic types are either:
1 – being the typical narcissist who is hurting and their wound is hungry, so they lash out at you in a way they know will push your personal buttons, triggering you, making you lash out at them to defend yourself or at yourself because you’re angry at yourself for letting things get to this or be like this, in order to get fuel/narc supply from your reaction – which they need to be overly-sensitive overly-emotional raw juices flowing from you into them, and hopefully you’ll also be expressing their pain, their wounding, their dissociated dark side, their projected shadow, their transferred issues, for them because they can’t do it for themselves (or so they’ve told themselves and others have probably confirmed that for them).
Thanking this type of person for stabbing you – is not the reaction they were after, you’re a waste of time and effort for them, and there are others they know or have yet to know who will give them what they want and were after. You’re useless to them, they can’t use you the way they wanted and needed to. They discard you and move on = They shut up and go away.
When a narcissist or narcissistic person goes away – let them go!
It may hurt your pride, it may frustrate you because – how dare they after everything… – or because you have unfinished business with them, have things you want to say to them (all those things you wanted to say but never said, perhaps because you were being empathic or compassionate or just didn’t want to deal with the fall out of genuinely being your authentic self with them), need closure… sometimes closure isn’t what you think it is, what others have told you to think that it is, sometimes closure leaves a lot of loose ends flapping in the wind.
2 – thinking they’re doing you an enormously generous favour by ripping you to pieces, and they’re getting their fuel/narcissistic supply from being a holy rolling sanctimonious self-righteous holier than thou perfectionistic idealist who is always right and desperately needs everyone else to be wrong, sinners, unhealthy, broken, lost, misguided, stupid, whining complaining victims whom they are going to help and heal by victimising, shaming, bullying, you into shutting up and never speaking anything but what they’re told you to say. Don’t cry, don’t whine. don’t complain, don’t say you’re a victim even if you are, you only have yourself to blame – but when they do those kinds of things – it’s good, noble, heroic.
Thanking this type of person is – giving them what they want, what they so hungrily desire. They feel that no one appreciates them and this torments them, they can’t rest in peace until they are given the gratitude they are convinced that they deserve (but it’s never enough).
If you thank them and smile, they’ll go away…
And this is the penny which has finally dropped for me…
They’ll go away only for a while, but they will come back because:
1 – they’ll want more of your thankfulness, your gratitude, your appreciation, etc, because it is never enough!
2 – they’ve found someone who not only puts up with their abusive psychological predator shit, but who approves of it, wants more of it, wants to be criticised, broken, and bashed into some ideal perfect shape…
Thanking them may have been your way of shutting them up and making them go away, but they don’t understand that. And if it ever occurs to them that this was what you were doing – You will hear about it, you horrible creature of evil! You deceived them. They were right about you, you are wrong! Your crooked self will be preached at and lectured until you are put straight (but you will always be crooked to them).
One of the things which narcissists and narcissistic types also get in the way of fuel/narc supply from people like me (and I’m particularly good at this because I was trained by my narcissist parents and myself to do this to survive) is excuses and reasons for their behaviour and treatment of others which they then absorb and pass on to others should anyone ever confront them.
People like me learn to be apologists for people like them – and they then use those ‘apologies’ on new victims. We help them shut their victims up.
For instance – Well, Martha had no problem with me being this way, and Tim totally accepts me the way that I am = there must be something wrong with you for not accepting my ruining your favourite thing about yourself, everyone else would be fine and dandy if I did it to them.
I’ve actually had narcissists or narcissistic types use excuses I’ve made for them on me when I’ve not accepted their behaviour and decided to say to them what I really think. That really packs a punch because basically you’re punching yourself – and narcissist and narcissistic types love it when they use you against you!
I’ve learned a lot from narcissists and narcissistic types, and that’s partly the reason I gave myself for approving comments which were passive-aggressive, narcissistic, and ripping me a new one. I thought – people should read this, especially if it’s on a post I wrote about narcissists, as it can help to see what is sometimes hard to see, it’s sometimes easier to see it when it’s happening to someone else, someone like a blogger from whom you are detached, rather than when it’s happening to you, or happening to someone close to you.
My blind spot was not seeing – but what if people don’t see what I see, don’t realise what I’m doing because I haven’t explained it at all.
To me it was ‘obvious’ and I was blind to the fact that it might not be obvious.
I also had some other blind spots about it.
Such as that if I say – Thank you for sharing 🙂 – to someone I think is an asshole and fuck you:
1 – other assholes might read it and think – Oh, there’s a victim who is an ‘expert’ at being a victimised victim and loves being victimised, she’ll even thank us for it!
2 – an asshole might think – Well, see, there’s someone being treated the way I treat my friend/girlfriend/boyfriend/spouse/child and they don’t have any problem with it, therefore there is no problem with it or me, the problem is my friend/girlfriend/boyfriend/spouse/child and I’m going to tell them that I’m right and they’re wrong
3 – those dealing with an asshole might think – Oh, maybe I’m wrong about my asshole, maybe I should apologise for standing up for myself, make excuses for him/her, and let him/her walk all over me again while I keep walking on eggshells around him/her because he/she is so easily triggered, poor thing!
4 – those to whom I’ve said – thank you for sharing 🙂 – and positively meant exactly what I said, plus maybe also meant – Wow, thank you, you’ve made me feel heard, seen, liked, you’ve given me an appreciation for the other side of blogging (the one where your posts aren’t always just about you, to you, for you, but are about others, to others, for others too, because even though I’m me and you’re you, sometimes I’m you and you’re me), you’ve opened my eyes to something I’ve missed, you’ve taught me something which I am grateful to learn, you’ve helped me just by being yourself with me and accepting me being myself with you in my posts (and in the replies to your comments) – and other things for which I am truly grateful…
If I’m saying – Thank you for sharing 🙂 – to assholes am I diminishing the value of my – Thank you for sharing 🙂 – to non-assholes, even though in some ways I am thankful and grateful that the asshole commented because that too has opened my eyes in some manner, and has taught me a lesson, and has given me food for thought and fuel for writing a post.
And when I write a post inspired by a comment which has pushed one of my buttons, triggered me, hurt me, pissed me off… I learn more about myself, have to listen to myself and hear what I’m saying, get to look at a new scenario which may remind me of an old scenario from a new perspective after looking at it from an old perspective… and that is part of the reason why I blog, it’s part of the relationship which I have with my blog, and my relationship with my blog helps me with my relationship with myself, which helps me with my relationship with others both online and offline (and vice versa).
You might have noticed in this post some cropped screen shots of an article – Livingly | 30 Signs Your Man Is a Keeper (full list).
I was browsing Pinterest yesterday and clicked on a Click Bait paid for Promoted link. I didn’t realise at the time that this was what it was, and I wasn’t as annoyed with myself as I usually am when I fall for those online traps. The article is better than I thought it would be – the points it makes are very good.
I usually try to avoid articles like that one because it triggers my holier than though preachy perfectionistic idealist side – and if I hate it when people are in that mode… I hate myself too when I’m in that mode (although once upon a time it used to give me self-esteem fuel/narcissistic supply… which never lasted, and then down the self-esteem bar would plummet and off I’d have to go to search for someone else who was wrong so I could be right. It’s a very tiresome vicious cycle).
Most articles like that one… make me wonder if they’re trying to push our holier than though buttons because they tend to take a whack at our self-esteem.
Although typically what annoys me is – they man-bash. Not only do they man-bash, but they also elevate women to some pedestal of superiority over men which gives women the perfect and superior right to man-bash men who are inferior and all wrong. It’s a very rickety pedestal made of expectations which are going to be disappointed, especially if women keep expecting men to become who women think men should be for them which is basically women in a male skin suit.
Since I’ve had more bad experiences with women than with men, and more good experiences with men than with women when it comes to being accepted as I am – a mess of a human person – I tend to side with men and their view that women are too complicated, too complex, too demanding and often completely unaware of their hypocrisy – I’ve been that kind of a women, and therefore I can still be that kind of a woman.
I’m married. To a man. I’ve been married to the man I’m married to for 20 years. I’ve been an asshole to him sporadically throughout those 20 years and justified it by using articles which excuse women when they’re the ones being the asshole.
My partner ticks all of the boxes in that article – Livingly | 30 Signs Your Man Is a Keeper (full list) – but do I? Do I really?
He’s been patient and not so patient with me throughout the years. We have been through the – I hate your guts and I’m not sure why I’m still with you, maybe I’ll quit this job – phase of a relationship. We made it through that phase, and are now in – I love you, I love everything about your wacky crazy human self, and if anything happened to you… I don’t want to think about it – phase of the relationship (this phase is a matured version of the – we’re madly in love soul mates who will be together forever until beyond death – phase which happens early on in a relationship and which sometimes doesn’t make it through the – OMG you have flaws which are pet peeves of mine, I can’t stand the way you chew your food, can’t you just swallow it whole or not eat at all, please, I’m very caring but I don’t care for that or for you when you do it – phase of a relationship).
I usually refer to my husband on my blog as my partner (he doesn’t like the term, he told me so, I listened to him and then told him – that’s what I’m using because I don’t like the term husband, it reminds me of housebound, and the word ‘husband’ is often used in a dismissive, demeaning, diminishing manner even when the person using it says they love their husband. It also makes me think of all the husband-bashing online which I realise is there to balance all the decades of wife-bashing, which often comedians have done to get a laugh, but it’s not only emasculating it’s making me wish I wasn’t a female… besides I prefer to keep you mysterious, private. He shrugged and added it to the – eccentric shit my wife does – list, which balances out my list of – eccentric shit my husband does – and which we accept about each other because it’s part of the whole and it isn’t life-threatening). I see him as my partner in relationship crimes and in figuring out this thing called life and being human living this thing called life.
When I first started blogging on a now dead and buried blog which I loved but on which I ended up not saying what I wanted to say and instead I was trying to say what I thought others wanted to hear, which became a saccharin sweet prison, I used to refer to my partner as – My Beloved Human. I realise there’s quite a bit wrong with that even though it sounded right at the time, and the thing which was most wrong with it was that someone who rigorously read my blog posts on that blog became rather obsessed with me and with My Beloved Human. That obsessed person was a woman, and their obsession… lead to me deciding to not use My Beloved Human. Partner is less… evocative and thus less provocative.
As a blogger, but mainly as a human being, a human being who is the child of narcissists and therefore is prone to being hypervigilant, I am wary about sharing the things which and revealing the people who have given me and give me happiness.
There’s always a sense of being watched (even when no one is around) and not in a good way, of attracting the wrong kind of attention from the wrong kind of person who sees themselves as righteous in their quest to steal happiness away from others because those others don’t deserve it, are lying to themselves about being happy with that thing (‘thing’ – for a narcissist or very narcissistic type, also includes people. People are ‘things’ to them, except for themselves who is usually viewed as a god/goddess/elevated spiritual being).
That type of person has a different type of story for themselves, and sometimes you – whoever you are and whatever you’re doing – end up being a part of their story to prove whatever they’re trying to prove or even disprove to and about themselves.
For more on this – The Support Forum Fraud by HG Tudor
My partner is someone I want to protect from others. Not only does he do everything on the list in that article – Livingly | 30 Signs Your Man Is a Keeper (full list). – he does it without expecting to be rewarded for it. It’s just what he does. It’s part of who he is.
I fell in love with him partly because he was the first person with whom I could be completely myself. When we first met I tried to warn him off, push him away, I was adamant that I was not who he thought I was and who he needed in his life. He did then what he has always done with me – he waited patiently for me to figure things out for myself, and realise that he wasn’t who I thought he was and he was definitely who I needed in my life.
I even tried to scare him off by introducing him to my father (he’d already met my mother – and she was an asshole peach to him because he was a threat to her domination of me) who I had had no contact with for a while until that moment. My partner was totally calm, cool, unperturbed when my father announced: I am immortal and I shall tell you why I am immortal in great detail!
He taught me how to go No Contact from my narcissist parents. He didn’t ask me to do it, didn’t tell me to do it, he was willing to put up with their shit for my sake – it was when I saw how much I allowed him to get hurt through me, through what my parents were doing to me which turned me into a ‘someone else’ of sorts, through what my parents did to him through me – that’s when I said to myself, ENOUGH, stop lying to yourself, your lying to yourself isn’t only hurting you now!
My partner slowly, gradually, patiently taught me what real love is – he didn’t do it deliberately, he just did it by being himself. It took a long time for me to really understand, I understood intellectually, and sometimes intuitively what it was, but… there was so much narcissistic love programming inside of me, and not just from my parents but from the media, from films, TV, books, advertising, etc.
Real love is rather ordinary on the surface.
real love is similar to real enlightenment
(and yes, I did notice that this quote is a pit preachy and condescending – my narc mom made me very mindful to notice when and how others were being condescending while being completely oblivious to how she was being condescending about them about it – what’s wrong with sipping a cup of coffee at a cafe with your friends chatting about how awake you are, ffs you’d better be awake after having imbibed a triple-espresso!)
As far as those who are narcissist or narcissistic are concerned – real love is very boring. It’s in the day-to-day things which… YAWN! or UGH! Like when you’re too ill to get out of bed and your loved one brings you a bowl to pee in and then takes it away to empty, and doesn’t think – Look how heroic I’m being, I’d better get a big reward for this sacrifice – but instead they think – nothing of it because they love you and you love them and would do the same for them if the situation was reversed.
And yes, my partner did exactly that for me when I injured myself in a way that meant I couldn’t move for a few weeks, had to stay lying flat on the bed, not move, and the bathroom was downstairs and when I tried to go downstairs I couldn’t even make it out of bed.
That’s one of my personal reference points now for what real love is.
You can take your candlelit dinners, your trips to Paris (or wherever is the ‘In’ place is nowadays to be taken by someone trying to prove to you that you are special to them), your roses and chocolates and diamonds and… I’ll take my someone willing to bring me a bowl to pee in and empty it and tell me to shut up it was nothing I love you when I feel ashamed and am obsessively-compulsively apologising for being a human.
Time for me to shut up now…
and for you to have your say…
but be warned…
if you’re just going to tell me I’m wrong and you’re right – now, that is boring! to me even if it’s endlessly interesting to you – I’m not going to thank you, I may not even reply to you (I’m trying a new version of an old desire out), I may not even approve your comment (and if you’re already approved, I am capable of unapproving it and am no longer ‘nice’ enough to not do that), and I most likely won’t say to you what I really want to say because you’re not listening and that’s the formula for a tiresome dialogue which is really a monologue (yes, my posts are monologues, dialogues with myself, and if they’re tiresome wrongness to you – Why the fuck are you reading them? Go away! You’re free, use your freedom.)
A warm and genuine thank you to all those who share themselves with me, and who patiently stand by me waiting for the pennies to drop… this little slot machine was built a little off-kilter and has many blind spots for coins to get stuck in… give it a friendly nudge, see what happens.
it’s over to you!
What’s your personal reference point for what real love is?