Saturn Issues: You Make Me Dislike The Things That I Like

Have you ever had something which gave you pleasure ruined by someone else which turned that pleasure into a displeasure. Perhaps they pissed on a passion of yours, and as much as you told yourself not to be affected by it, you were affected and it changed your experience of that passion.

Have you ever shared your favourite film with someone only to have them criticise and critique it to death, making it a film you can no longer watch without hearing that person’s criticisms of it, seeing all the faults and flaws they pointed out.

Maybe they didn’t mean to do that.

Maybe they did mean to do it.

Some people like to destroy what others like because they can’t enjoy it, so why should you be able to enjoy what they can’t enjoy. They get their kicks from making you hate what you once loved. From sucking the fun out of what is fun for you.

They leave their – Killjoy was here – tag everywhere they go and on everyone they meet.

We have many names and descriptions for those kinds of people.

When we think others are those kinds of people and label them accordingly… we think we’re right about them.

But when we’re those kinds of people for others… we think that others are wrong about us, being unfair, are stupid, and so on, for experiencing us that way and labeling us with the label of the moment which describes that kind of person. That’s not who we are, that wasn’t what we were doing!

One day years ago I had a short sharp shock. A friend of mine told me that I was ruining a like of theirs for them and turning it into a dislike – and could I please stop doing that because I was turning their like for me into dislike.

At first I thought they were wrong, but after a pause to review our interaction, I saw that they were right.

More often than not people don’t realise that they are making us dislike our like, they don’t perceive that as being what they’re doing and how they’re affecting you. They’re just doing their thing and their thing may be criticising your thing until you can’t unhear their criticisms when looking at your thing.

I grew up with those people known as parents who were also those people known as narcissists who regularly did that kind of thing with that person known as their child.

Sometimes they ruined what I liked deliberately. Sometimes they ruined it without realising what they were doing.

Sometimes I ruined it for myself before they could ruin it for me.

I grew into an overly sensitive person who couldn’t like anything for fear of having it ruined and turned into a dislike for me by others. I was permanently afraid of admitting to liking something or someone.

Pleasure was restricted for the sake of safety and security.

Safety and security required hiding what I liked from myself. I developed a case of anhedonia. It made life very dull, and made me melancholic.

I was thinking about this theme and pattern recently. I cogitated over it at length and ended up thinking astrologically about it – the astro bit comes later – which brought insight and plenty of hmmm-ing about it.

There’s something which I love to do.

I’m not going to specify what it is because that will distract from the overall theme which plays out and shifts from this like to that.

This particular like has changed over the years, but the basics of it remain the same. It used to be a fairly solitary activity, I mainly did it in private, with myself.

Occasionally I tried to do it with others, but it wasn’t a popular activity and most people didn’t like it when I did it with them, even when they asked me to do it. So I stopped doing it with others and kept it a solo experience for the most part – I only did it with others when it served a purpose for me to do so or could not be curbed.

Recently it seems to have become popular – which can be the kiss of death sometimes.

quote via Quote Investigator

So many people have jumped onto the band wagon.

They’re making me dislike the activity.

It’s not their fault. They’ve discovered something fun and are having fun doing it, and they’re inspiring others with that sense of fun. That’s how something becomes a popular activity.

The issue is mine and mine alone.

At first I was getting annoyed with others for ruining what I like to do for me, making me not want to do it anymore.

What was making me dislike my like wasn’t that so many people are now doing it and liking it. I actually like that part of it. It’s the way they’re doing it… it’s my perception of the way they’re doing, which summed up = they’re doing it wrong, that’s not how it’s done.

My initial reaction annoyed me, and I turned my attention towards beating myself up for being an a-hole about it. Beating myself up isn’t a particularly useful activity on its own, however it’s part of the process of getting to the root of an issue, especially if the root of the issue is within you.

Sometimes you have to beat the information out of yourself… or at least I seem to have to do that with myself.

Sometimes you have to go where it’s uncomfortable to go, and keep going until you find the thorn in your paw, the pea under the mattresses.

My initial reaction led to the typical solution I apply when a like of mine has been ruined. I discard the like from my like repertory. It’s time for me to not like that anymore. I’ve been liking it for too long, well passed the expiry date and it’s no longer healthy for me – that’s the value of this experience!

It’s a form of aversion therapy.

Sometimes things we like have an expiry date, but because they gave us pleasure we’re reluctant to let them go and move on to liking something new. The new thing may give us intense pleasure, but until we get into it we don’t know that – that uncertainty makes us stick with what we know, rather than discover something new.

So we cling to the old pleasure even if it has become a pain. Afraid to let go. What if we never find anything which… which what? Which pains us as much as it is now paining us? Which we don’t like anymore but hold onto because once upon a time it was fun.

Sometimes when I experience a case of somebody making me dislike what I like… I’m actually grateful to them for doing that. It was time for me to move on.

However that’s not always the right solution to an issue of disliking a like. Especially if the like is connected to an intrinsic and natural expression of who you are. Which this particular like is for me.

This like grew out of something I do naturally.

I have been through previous phases of disliking it. Although those were usually caused by others not liking the activity, and disliking me for doing it when in their company.

I’ve tried not doing this activity, but it makes life more fun for me and enhances my experience of being.

Perhaps it is time for it to undergo an overhaul, a metamorphosis. It’s grown too big for the skin its in.

While I was contemplating all of this, I was also thinking about other things – one of which was the transits which are now affecting placements in my natal chart. I hadn’t connected the two things, I can be very dense sometimes, but then BOOM! insight happened.

I was reading a couple of articles by Steven Forrest, a talented astrologer who happens to be Sun sign Capricorn as I am.

In both of the articles he mentioned a Saturn/Sun connection.

In one article he used it to highlight the importance of putting two and two (or seven) together, of understanding how one thing goes with, blends with, and interacts with another.

“When I am teaching the more advanced kinds of astrological interpretation, I constantly beat this drum: integration, integration, integration. One day I realized that I could boil this critical skill down to one single pithy statement: always remember what you have already said. So simple to say, but it really encapsulates all the critical integrative principles.

Imagine someone is a Capricorn with the Sun-Saturn conjunction. The computer tells him definitively: you are a loner. But maybe that person’s Moon is in Libra in the seventh house. The computer goes on to explain how he is a social animal, with a strong compulsion to be in relationships.

Go figure, in other words.

Learning to make those two statements dance together illustrates the critical interpretive skill about which I’m talking. The part of your brain that likes poetry has more affinity for it than the part of your brain that thinks like a microchip.

Remember what you have already said.

The statement is clear enough in principle – but complications arise after you have said ten different things. What does statement number two have to do with statement number seven? How do they fit together? How can you even remember them all?

– excerpt from Forrest Astrology: Remember What You’ve Already Said…
or What Mars Is Up to in February

In the other article he spoke from a more personal perspective on the Saturn/Sun theme.

He was discussing the transit of Saturn to his Sun as well as other planets he has in Capricorn, and how he’d decided to approach dealing with them.

“Here’s the part about my “trying to walk my talk.”

I believe in setting positive intentions for how we choose to respond to any transits, progressions, or solar arcs that lie ahead for us. I believe that is especially helpful for the ones that might look kind of frightening to us – Saturn transiting through a conjunction with the Sun, for example. I believe that each one of them, no matter how scary it might look, has a higher purpose. I believe that if we figure out what that purpose is and embrace it – in other words, set a strong intention to learn what we really need to learn – that we will have the obvious soul-benefit of the learning. But we will also help ourselves to avoid the pointless suffering that arises from an unconscious or foolish response to an astrological stimulus.

We may not avoid suffering – I am not being Pollyanna here. But there is a big difference between the kinds of meaningful suffering that teach us a valuable lesson, on one hand, and the pointless suffering created by surrendering our power to fear and laziness, and just feeling peeved about how unfair the universe is.

In December 2017, Saturn entered Capricorn. I have three planets in Capricorn, including my Sun, so I knew that I had a choice: I could get exhausted or I could get depressed. Wonderful, huh? I know that sounds like a grim decision – but given the choice, I think most of us would pick exhaustion, albeit a bit reluctantly.

Exhaustion is the right choice with Saturn, and it is not nearly as bad as it sounds. Exhaustion arises when we have made any kind of monumental effort. It comes from giving everything we’ve got. And that can be a glorious thing.

With Saturn entering Capricorn, I knew that I had to “climb a mountain” or instead face some miserable emotional states. Writing a book is a good example of that mountain-climbing – it’s got all the Saturn signatures: hard work, it takes a lot of sustained self-discipline, some sacrifices, plus a lot of time.”

– excerpt from Forrest Astrology: The Book of Fire: The Life-Givers … or Trying to Walk My Talk

In my chart I have natal Saturn square Sun. At the moment transiting Saturn is conjunct my natal Sun, and squaring natal Saturn.

As Steven Forrest points out, reading up on Saturn transits (as well as reading up on natal Saturn aspects) can be rather grim reading (Saturn is associated with the grim reaper).

My natal Saturn is in Aries, in astrology-speak Saturn in that sign is stated to be in its “fall” – in other words it’s a bad combination, a relationship fiasco.

Aries hates the restrictions which Saturn tries to place on it – it experiences Saturn as a muzzle, collar and leash trying to restrain and tame its wild and natural self.

Saturn hates trying to teach and train a stubborn and willful Aries. It’s the stern and strict parent viewing their child and its natural impulses as a brat who must be disciplined. It’s the ant sensei trying to impart wisdom to its grasshopper pupil.

Saturn squaring the Sun is a bit like having a sunny day ruined by a dark cloud obscuring it. It’s the child who is pleased with the drawing it did, enthusiastically shows it to the parent hoping the parent will share in its joy, and the parent decides to be an art critic about it, and point out all the errors their critical eyes perceive. It’s the focus on the one B on a report card filled with A’s. It’s the “you’re not good enough” issue, over and over no matter how good you are.

Saturn in Aries squaring Sun in Capricorn is a bizarre combo. Saturn is the ruling planet of Capricorn, so there’s a certain affinity between the two – they both agree that self-discipline is a key element of character building. They both aim for self-mastery. Every day is This is Sparta! for Saturn and Capricorn.

However the Sun represents ego – natural wild and willful ego which wants to shine. So the Sun squared by Saturn is not dissimilar to the relationship between Aries and Saturn.

The Sun likes something, and Saturn ruins it. The Sun has a passion, Saturn pisses on it. The Sun has a gift, Saturn takes it, chews it up and spits it out.

Why is Saturn doing that?

The Sun gets more and more afraid of shining, of sharing its passion, of liking anything or anyone.

The Sun wants to create, but Saturn keeps eating its children.

Alan Oken describes the Sun/Saturn relationship contract as necessary for the process of discovering the right use of will/power.

“When in hard aspect, the manifestation of goals is blocked until the right use of the personal will comes under the direction of the soul.

The more difficult contacts often indicate a certain lack of courage and a fear of the creative powers of authority and responsibility, both from within and outside of oneself.”

– Alan Oken, Soul-Centered Astrology

He calls Saturn – the Lord of Karma.

What is karma? What is the purpose of karma? Or more to the point what is the purpose of the concept of karma?

What is the Saturn’s concept of karma and purpose for it?

“Saturn is the ruler of karma and karmic patterns that go all the way back to childhood and beyond even to previous lives. So the lessons of Saturn in our natal chart may well have childhood relevance.

Perhaps we have build up a strong defence as a result and protector of an inner fear that resulted from childhood experiences. Maybe there is a way that we behave, or a way that we relate to others that reflects a childhood experience as if we are continually living out this experience and belief, but actually stops our evolutionary progress towards maturity. Saturn above all wants us to be mature beings able to look after ourselves and face responsibility for our actions and reactions.

The transit can be heartbreaking, take us to tears and anguish, really put us to the test. This is tough love from the Lord of Karma, breaking our heart so that we can actually open it.

Once open, we can see inside to the pain, recognise it past the wall of insecurity and start to heal it by giving ourselves self love, allowing ourselves to forgive – forgive ourselves and others, and to release the fear that we have been holding onto. Saturn in effect is breaking down our self-made barrier in order to construct something much stronger and more durable, bringing us closer to maturity and closer to self realisation.”

– excerpt from Astrology and Tarot with Jo: Saturn square Saturn Transit

I’m going to end this here…

Yes, I’m kind of abandoning it mid-thought and stream of consciousness, but I have some work to do.

It’s the sort of work I dislike doing when I think about it, but once I start doing it and get into it, then I really like doing it.

Hmmm…

Over to you!

27 comments

  1. Yes, I’m longing for my muse and it’s out of grasp. But I haven’t really done anything to reach it or have I, then still she may be out of my reach

    What my story told me was either I flip the coin or seek enlightenment 😀 there are some other things I’ll stuff them in a post.

    Thank you for your kind advice

    Liked by 1 person

  2. Life is a tragedy in close-up but a comedy in long shot – Charlie Chaplin (if Im not mistaken)

    It is a journey and I’m only passing by 🙂

    Like

    • What I meant by my question was – What has happened in your day to day life which is inspiring you to go down this line of thinking?

      Did an incident occur at work, with a colleague, stress, disappointment, are you looking ahead and seeing nothing ahead, or were you considering issues to do with your family, looking behind and feeling overshadowed by the past, chased by personal demons and unable to escape, or is it longing for something or someone, such as your muse, something more, better, which you feel is out of your grasp no matter how much you do to try and reach it?

      The “meaning of life” is different for each of us. Tell your story and see what your story tells you.

      Someone recently said that I’m adept at finding meaning in the mundane… the mundane is where we find all those things we search for everywhere else. Look at your day to day – within it are subtleties which reveal the natural magic of existence.

      Like

      • I know what you meant lol sorry I was just being reflective 😉 … to answer your question with a question.

        What you mentioned above, Ive been there done that. Anyway I meant to answer your earlier question in my next post. So I will

        Liked by 1 person

      • One time you asked if I think in Chinese then translate to words in my writing and I answered usually not that case, my thoughts mostly in English.

        Yesterday I read one of my rhapsody post…lol I don’t understand what I’m writing! I had to read again, then it sounded like I was thinking in my native Cantonese and translated the thoughts into English. Or it’s just fragmented. Then i recalled i had much drink that night when I did that post 😅

        So in retrospect I realized that when I’m drunk or even not drunk, my emotional thoughts are formed with my native language.

        Like

        • Reading old posts can be a strange trip into an alternate reality where nothing makes sense because you’re no longer on that wave length 🙂 then again sometimes you may be surprised by how clear you were in that moment and the you who wrote that post in the past passes on a message the you in the now needs to re-hear/read.

          If you’re writing under the influence of emotions it tends to sound drunk (whether you were drinking at the time or not) to the you who reads what you wrote while you’re in the mind space reserved for clinical thinking.

          That’s part of the fun of blogging… it’s an adventure in self discovery of past, present and alternate places 😉

          Like

          • I revisit that post becos I saw it was being viewed for consecutively two days (probably by the same viewer), it’s not a recent post and that made me curious.

            Though I’m pretty sure it’s the song MV which I embedded within the post that viewer is coming back for, I read it again to see what I have written.

            Read your post yesterday, and something there strikes a chord. When Im in love with a person, not only I want to see the nitty-gritty side of them but also the darker/undesirable side as well 😉

            Like

  3. Everyone’s darkness is at a different level…

    Those who are blinded by the light, see the fake light and did not fall into darkness. Thus is their journey

    Like

  4. Read one of your astrology post talking about Eros, interesting, missed the house aspect previously. So I’m curious, which house is your Eros in? Mine is in Pisces, initially I thought it was in Hse 9 as my sun but a closer look revealed it to be in Hse 8.

    This is going to be a hectic week and it’s only Monday… but reading your post Eros and Heros was somewhat refreshing 😀

    Like

    • Eros is in my 5th house, conjunct Mercury (it is also aspected by Uranus/Jupiter and Mars), which means that I can be rather fickle due to the zappy monkey mind connection, although usually it’s ideas I’m fickle about rather than people 😉

      Reading the interpretation for Eros in Pisces/8th house is interesting considering your relationship with your muse – it’s definitely a transformative experience. I wonder what her Eros would reveal.

      Have a good week, look for the magic moments in the hectic 😀

      Like

      • Thank you, Ursula.

        Question: How would you describe what dark in a single sentence?

        I can think of mine… 😉

        Like

          • I was taking a drag last night not thinking anything in particular and this just popped up “You can never get lost in the dark.”

            Gave it some thoughts today and conclude that this can only applies when the person already have a sure sense of the self. Then venturing the dark side of your pscyhe is merely another learning experience.

            People get blinded in the light becos they are too focus on the light and lose their inner self sometimes i think. Haha my thoughts are often ambiguous, I don’t think I can be more specific becos situations change and what or how a condition applies also should change.

            Hope my rambling make sense 😀

            Like

            • Makes sense, and is well thought out 🙂

              I’ve just started watching the kdrama Possessed, and there’s a theme running through it about human darkness.

              I like what Carl Jung had to say about shadow and darkness, about getting to know your own so that you can understand that of others. When we fear darkness we end up doing a lot of dark things, and blinding ourselves to what we’re doing.

              Liked by 1 person

              • Ah, I’m glad you could make out what Im saying. But you haven’t answer my question yet? Lol… Do you like salty peanuts as well?

                Haha… Lol it’s okay with the peanuts… So what’s your definition of dark? Whichever type that you could describe in a single sentence, it’s that simple 😉

                Liked by 1 person

  5. Detours and delays… so true. Excellent post. Saturn, for this Scorpio, is all about learning how not to be in control all the time, but at the same time, like Sadje says, standing up for what we believe in.

    Like

  6. I was looking over my shoulder when you wrote “they’ve made me stop liking…” because I suspect I’m guilty of doing that. I’m also wildly curious about what it is that you’ve stopped liking, but realize that’s none of my business. If I’m at fault, I’m sure you’d say so. Still I hope it isn’t me. I’m a Pisces and Saturn figures in there somewhere on a chart I had done once. Explains a few things at least after I read your meme about it being the slowest revolution and the planet of detours and delays. I always wondered about that trait in my makeup, but now it makes sense. Ah well what does one expect of a fish really?

    Like

    • It’s not you, Melanie, rest assured 🙂 You’ve actually inspired me to like something which I didn’t like doing – participating in blogging community activities.

      It’s no one else in particular. It’s me experiencing something that way. I’m not specifying what it is because what it is isn’t important, it’s the pattern which is important and which I need to explore which is why I left what it is vague. This pattern shifts from thing to thing. I even experienced it with nutella.

      Everyone has to deal with Saturn in their chart. It has pros as well as cons. Sometimes a delay or detour is a life-saver, but we may not know that it is. Someone once said that life is full of small miracles which we never find out about, don’t notice because they happen outside of our field of vision. A delay which stops us from being at a certain place at a certain time may stop us from having a bad experience. A detour which takes us away from our planned route may lead us to a good experience we wouldn’t have had had we gone the way we planned to go. It’s the blessing in disguise of a curse concept.

      Like

  7. Okay, so you lost me with Saturn. I have very little knowledge of star signs or their significance. But I agree with you about people spoiling something you like, by either, 1. liking it too much, and you don’t want to be part of the crowd, or. 2 . By criticizing it and spoiling the whole effect. It appears that people who have strong opinions ( me for example) can express them too forcefully and sway, or deter others from their point of view.

    Like

    • Astrology can be a bit like trying to read a foreign language until you understand it. It offers a different way of looking at things like personality traits and life experiences. Each star sign is basically a personality type, but it’s a rough sketch of it since there are millions of people with that star sign. That’s where the natal chart comes in, that’s where things get more detailed, but the language used can be confusing to read – even I find it confusing when I’m reading an astrology post written by an astrologer.

      One of the things I like about you/your blog is that you do have strong opinions and aren’t afraid to share them. That makes your posts interesting. You have a very diplomatic style of expressing your strong opinions, and you don’t come across as trying to force them upon anyone or sway them – that is an admirable skill.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Hey, thanks for these wonderful lines. I appreciate your feedback and the fact that you like reading my posts. Yes I do have strong opinions. I think that we all should stick to and stand for what we believe in. And as you said, I do try to word them in a way as not to force them down someone’s throat. 😉😃

        Liked by 1 person

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