Public Enemy Number Lilith – Lilith in the 10th house with a side order of Pluto

Lilith in the 10th houseLilith in the 10th house in Astrology

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At some point… you’re not going to like me.

That’s what I always think when someone has recently met me, and is showing signs of having a friendly crush on me.

If I were to say that – at some point you’re not going to like me – to you while you’re caught up in seeing me as sugar and spice, and all things nice, you’d assure me that it could never happen.

I can assure you that it will happen, but you wouldn’t believe me, and you wouldn’t remember that I told you so later when you’ve decided that you don’t like me after all.

What happens after it happens, and it will happen, depends on whether you can handle your illusions about others being popped, your ideals being battered a bit by reality, your expectations for others being disappointed by others being themselves and not living only to live up to your expectations of them.

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marilyn-monroe-quoteI chose an MM quote because she was a Gemini Sun, and my 10th house has Gemini on the cusp – the 10th house represents, amongst other things, your public status.

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You may decide that I played you, that I was only pretending to be nice, that you were fooled by my persona and… no one likes to feel they’ve been fooled because everyone likes to think they’re a good judge of character.

If it’s any consolation to you while you’re reeling from the discovery that I’m human, therefore not as tidy as you’d like for me to be, prone to not sticking to the script you’ve given me, or playing the role you’ve assigned me for you… I wasn’t playing you, I wasn’t pretending to be nice, and I didn’t fool you. If anyone fooled you, it was you, but that’s harder to stomach than blaming someone else for what you did to yourself.

That last sentence in the previous paragraph is the sort of thing I say which will make you not like me.

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Janis JoplinJanis was a Cappy.

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I can explain this dynamic most efficiently using astrology, using my natal chart and the placements and aspects in it. It is more detailed, balanced, and precise (for me anyway) than personality types and psychological profiles which, in my opinion, often confuse matters by either over-simplifying the human psyche or over-complicating it.

Sometimes when I read psychological stuff… I just want to kill myself and start from scratch with this thing called my life (that’s also the sort of stuff I’m prone to blurting out which upsets other people).

This is my natal chart (with the transits of the moment in green on the periphery):

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Natal chart and transits

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Here’s the astro bit about this dynamic:

The reason why some people often get a friendly crush on me when they first meet me is because I have Virgo rising.

Virgo gets a lot of shit for being critical and pedantic, however, your typical Virgo rising is actually a sweet and shy person who is more critical and pedantic towards themselves than they are towards others. They are very hard on themselves and make up for it by being soft towards others – you’re basically pleasurably benefiting from their self-inflicted pain. They’re nice to you because they’re mean to themselves, and they don’t want you to suffer like they do.

I know a lot of Virgo Suns – sweetest people ever. The bitchy ones are rare compared to the genuinely nice ones.

I’m a Capricorn Sun, so I’m never going to be sweet, but my Virgo rising sweetens and softens the edges of tough as old boots Cappy.

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Virgo

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I also have Moon in Virgo, conjunct my Ascendant. I will always aim to be a pleasurable experience for you as I know the world can be a cruel place, that we can be exceedingly harsh to ourselves, and to others because we’re being hard on ourselves, and that to offer a haven in a storm is to have a moment of peace and gentleness. I like that too… and I give to others what I would like for others to give to me, or for me to give to myself, but I don’t expect others to give it (I expect the opposite)… I give it because I give to myself when I do that.

My Moon is in the 12th house of things which are hidden – I keep my emotions to myself, I don’t want to bother you with what I’m feeling, I’ll deal with that later in private as my emotions are my problem and responsibility and not yours, I prefer to focus on your emotional well-being. I’m not being selfless as your emotional well-being affects mine. If you’re a bundle of suppressed and repressed emotions, you’re a ticking time bomb which could potentially destroy my world, more so before you explode than when you finally do.

People tend to be worse when they’re holding themselves back and resenting you because they see you as the reason they have to do that, than when they unleash their inner hell. What is being hidden is often more devastating than what is out in the open.

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YoganandaAnother quote from a Cappy.

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With Moon in Virgo – my aim is to be of emotional service. How can I help you feel more emotionally stable, fulfilled, calm, and so on.

I have often been praised for my ability to weather the emotional storms of others without getting emotional myself, without taking it personally and turning things into Armageddon. Feel free to have a temper tantrum all over me, I’ll just patiently wait for the tornado to subside, you obviously need to get something out of your system. However, I won’t forget the incident, but I also won’t hold it against you, you’re being human… unless you decide to hold something similar against me. I am not above playing tit for tat if needs must, and needs must happens when you want slack cut for you but you don’t cut slack for others.

If you’re a regular hypocrite you will feel the wrath of my Mars in Scorpio. My Venus in Pisces, which is a kind placement, mitigates most of the sting of the inner scorpion… just don’t do what the quote below advises you not to do:

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Al Capone - Don't mistake my kindness for weaknessAl Capone was a Capricorn Sun… hmmm…

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Moon conjunct Ascendant makes me prone to being a mirror reflecting the light which shines upon it, a mirror for those who gaze upon me, for you, for your light… and maybe your darkness too.

A mirror which will try to reflect the best of you back to you – you’re beautiful, your flaws and faults accentuate your beauty rather than diminish it, but… if you’re having problems with your own image, chances are, you’re going to have problems with me, with your image of me, because you’ll see in me what is in you and… you’ll hate me for that, for what you don’t want of yourself, and you may make me responsible for the parts of you that you’ve decided you don’t want.

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MirrorWarning

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I used to blame my natal Pluto in the 1st house for that.

The first house represent the self, identity, personality… and with natal Pluto there you’re most likely to be someone who other people either love or hate, hate to love or love to hate. And you may feel the same way about people.

My natal Pluto is retrograde (is backwards, turned inwards, introverted, self-reflective), which I consider quite lucky – I usually only hate myself and want to kill myself (homicidal tendencies are internalised), but thanks to Pluto I am equipped to survive that kind of self-destructive shit. I’m a natural born transformer. Phew! Thus far anyway…

Pluto is quite good at attracting and absorbing blame and that kind of thing, it doesn’t mind being a whipping boy, a scapegoat… it doesn’t care if you demote it from planet to something else… well, it does mind, but it understands that you can’t handle its weird energy, but it can handle it once it figures out how to do that (which can take awhile)… in fact it uses all of our collective and personal shit as fertiliser for transformation.

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Plutoextract via Hermetic Light Life Coaching on Pluto

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I also blamed my natal Chiron (conjunct the karma-geddon North Node) in the 7th house for that.

The 7th house is the realm of relationships with others. One on one… you versus me. Fight until K.O…. or work things out. Since Pisces is on the cusp, I’d rather make peace than war… however, Aries is also in that house… so if you want war, war it is! If this is Sparta… I’m prepared to be spartan about it!

Chiron is the wounded healer, who has to embrace the wound and the suffering which comes with it before any healing can occur, and even then… shit is painful and humans hate feeling pain, yet also love the ecstasy of being in agony.

We’re a conflicted bunch of randomly coalesced atoms.

I often attract people who are vulnerable wounded animals that plead for my help (Pisces) then aggressively bite me when I try to remove the thorn in their lion’s paw (Aries).

I can understand what’s going on with them even if it’s annoying, because… I’m not too keen on others messing with my pain-loving mojo either. I earned these wounds and scars… not sure if I want them to heal as… then what? Who am I without my pain?

When someone is trying to apply soothing balm to my wounds, I may scream – Rub salt in it, pour some freshly squeezed lemon juice on it!

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Capricorn - salt of the earth

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We’re all a bunch of… complicated.

Astrology helps me to get to grips with my own complicated ass.

And recently it’s dawned on me that Lilith may have a lot to do with why people who at first love me… eventually can’t stand me (I realise other things could explain this too).

I’ve ignored Lilith for as long as I can, it’s just an asteroid what harm can that sort of thing do, right?

But right now transiting Lilith is straddling natal placements which are my – you can no longer ignore this – spot. My natal Uranus conjunct Jupiter, which also happen to trine my Mercury in Aquarius, which also happens to be my Dominant planet.

In non-astro gobbledygook terms… pay attention to this or pay attention to this!

Jupiter expands everything it touches, and Uranus is a weird mo-fo. Together they expand the fact that I’m a weird mo-fo, and they do it in both my identity and my personal values (they’re connected over the cusp of my 1st and 2nd houses), while also affecting my mind with their enhanced crazy.

With Lilith interfering… it’s basically a case of own that mythical bitch!

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Black Moon Lilithextract via Black Moon Lilith in Libra by Nadia Gilchrist for Sasstrology

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My natal Lilith is in the 10th house.

To be honest, this is a house I tend to ignore when working with my chart as it represents career, social status, and… I’ve always been a bit erratic about that kind of thing because my life has been erratic even when I’ve tried to conform to expected ‘norms’.

I haven’t planned my career path or social status as much as we’re in theory supposed to plan that type of thing (or as much as I wished I had done). I’ve given up trying to be in control of it because it tends to react with a destructive explosion or implosion when I attempt to do that.

I do better when being in a supportive role to others than when I try to play the lead and expect others to support me (My natal chart emphasises this even when I wish it wouldn’t do that). We’re not supposed to accept that kind of thing in these modern times… enter natal Lilith in the 10th house telling me – you’re going to go against the tide and the tide is going to hate, misunderstand, and possibly blacklist you for it.

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Lilith in 10th houseextract via Lilith in the Houses by Tom Jacobs

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Perhaps if I’d explored Lilith in my chart sooner… especially as my natal Lilith squares my natal Pluto (and natal Pluto trines my Sun)…

I’d have accepted that dynamic which happens so regularly in my life that I’ve finally had to get used to it whether I want to or not just to ease the impact of human chaos and bias and complications in relationships.

But then again… we’re only ready to learn something and work with it when we’re ready to do that.

Try to force yourself to do, learn, or accept something before you’re ready and… you’ll end up doing what always happens to me when I try to jump the gun – being eliminated from the human race for a while.

Listening to the sounds of universal silence while you’re in limbo… cue rather soothing music while you wait…

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Retrospectively… all of this is kind of funny.

And that retrospective perspective adds humor to those times when the pattern repeats in the present. Which it does and will probably always keep doing.

Some things remain the same no matter how much we try to change them, perhaps because they’re about learning to accept what is rather than aim for what isn’t but what is hoped for.

Not all dreams are about making a dream come true, they’re more about the dream not coming true because life’s dream for you is seeing reality as it is and appreciating it as is.

Start where you are, accept where you are, who you are, maybe this is where you’re supposed to be even if you don’t want to be here, and maybe this is who you are meant to be even if you don’t want to be who you are.

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Pema chodron on pain and pleasure

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At some point… you’re not going to like me.

And you may expect me to care that you don’t, just as you wanted me to care when you did like me.

I’m probably going to add to your frustration about me when it comes to caring that you don’t like me.

I sort of care… but mostly I don’t.

You’re free to do as you please in whatever realm of human you’re inhabiting. It’s not my job to control how you perceive, think or feel about me… feel free to be a hater, but be warned if what you want is to control me with that kind of thing… it’s a waste of your time and effort. Wouldn’t you rather use that to pleasure yourself than to try to inflict pain on me (unless, of course, it’s the same thing for you).

Sure, it hurts that you don’t like me, but I’m used to that kind of pain. It passes… like intestinal gas.

Take care of yourself, stop trying to make others take care of you… that messes all of us up and takes care of nothing.

Peace out… or whatever.

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32 thoughts on “Public Enemy Number Lilith – Lilith in the 10th house with a side order of Pluto

  1. Such a fun read for me. I think you may be a year younger than I? As we have quite a few outer planet placements that are in the same sign. I am also a Capricorn, AND with a Virgo rising, as is my husband.

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    1. Thank you very much for sharing πŸ™‚

      I was born in the same year that Neil Armstrong (allegedly) went for a walk on the Moon, which I kind of see as funny and rather apt.

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  2. “Sometimes when I read psychological stuff… I just want to kill myself and start from scratch with this thing called my life (that’s also the sort of stuff I’m prone to blurting out which upsets other people).” HAHAHA SO VERY TRUE!!! I’ve thought this so many times I just don’t say it. Lilith in the 10th, ugh yes I’m just doomed to have shitty work experiences I might as well own it and stop wishing for peace. I loved this article. Thanks.

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    1. Thank you for sharing πŸ™‚

      The 10th house is also about status, public image. So I guess Lilith in the 10th gives those who have it there a certain Lilith status about them, and maybe for others we embody some of her qualities which makes them a bit afraid and wary of us as we’re a bit of a wild card, prone to not accepting anyone’s authority and to rebelling, and therefore they might cause problems for us while trying to protect themselves from the problems they think we might cause for them. Sometimes the only way we know what our public image is (or at least how the public sees it) is when we encounter the way people behave towards us because of how they see us and who they think we are.

      For ‘shitty experiences at work’ it’s also worth checking out what’s going on in the 6th house – the house of the daily grind. For one on one interactions – the 7th house can sometimes elucidate more. 11th house is for group experiences.

      ‘Owning it’ is a good tactic, especially when dealing with challenges from Lilith, Pluto, Uranus and Saturn – they will hunt you down with problems if you try to run away from their challenges.

      Which part of your chart is ‘wishing for peace’ sounds like a Venus or Moon story – check to see their aspects. Peace sometimes comes from being okay with chaos and disruption πŸ™‚

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      1. No worries. I feel honoured. I was drunk when I posted this, but still mean it. πŸ˜‰
        I guess alcohol is a truth serum. Haha!

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        1. Haha! Alcohol can indeed be a truth serum, depends on the kind of ‘drunk’ you are. I saw a chart once about the different kind of drunks people can be. For me it’s a sleep serum – just don’t wake me up πŸ˜‰

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  3. My BML is in the 10th house (same degree as my father’s Cap Sun-Mars) and it squares my Chiron in 1st house/Aires.
    I was the family scapegoat, had quite the bad girl reputation, was angry- raging teen wanting revenge on my father for disrespecting my mother-me-women, belittling and rejecting, and emotionally abandoning us. Other experiences I attribute to this aspect are being sexually violated, emotionally and physically abused…BML-Chiron! BML FEELS like my Scorpio Moon when activated.

    So..Pluto will be direct in the near future, close square with Uranus again, reactivating my BML and Chiron square. Also…my Pisces Asc 17′ –Chiron is retrograding back to that point.
    I want to Spartan up, not let it destroy me AGAIN by being someone’s narcissistic supply or from some other personal violation (sexual or physical, both have happened in the past). Pluto is so compulsion driven, its like falling under a hypnotic spell that I don’t see what is happening or through a faΓ§ade. (Natal Pluto in Libra/7th house trine Venus Aqua sextile Neptune Sag)

    Any thoughts for blocking and repelling the destructive narcissistic attraction? How are you preparing for Pluto to transit your Sun?

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    1. Thank you for sharing πŸ™‚

      From what I’ve understood of Pluto/Sun thus far it will be similar to that which I’ve experienced all my life by having natal Pluto in the first house in aspect to my Sun. It basically works by destroying any ego constructs which are no longer needed, challenging the individual to break out of their old shell, and discover new ways of being and expressing themselves.

      Pluto destroys to create a transformation. Since it has always been transiting through the personal houses of my chart, I tend to experience it through a personal need to break old patterns and habits, change my thinking, restructure my system. If I’m resisting change then the experience will most probably be traumatic, because Pluto is unrelenting in its demand that change occur, it will break you if it has to to get you to change. However, sometimes I’m the one who initiates change, usually when I’m feeling trapped – I also have Uranus in the 1st, and that creates a pressing need to break free from restrictions and when it works with Pluto that can cause an almighty mess.

      Pluto often teaches lessons about power, the right and wrong use of power. In the personal houses it teaches about personal power. In the relationship houses it teaches about power dynamics in relationships. So in the 1st and 7th it can be felt as a me versus you scenario.

      With Pluto in the 7th you’re most likely to experience Pluto through other people, through relationships, especially one to one interactions, and because you have Chiron in the 1st, if others are abusing their power in their relationship with you, it will wound you deeply in your sense of self, your identity. However, Chiron in the 1st is also the sign of a powerful healer – but to access that healing power you have to heal yourself, and that often comes from digging into the wound.

      This is an interesting write up about Chiron – http://www.moonkissd.com/2011/03/21/chiron-a-change-in-attitude/

      And this is also worth a read – https://chirotic.wordpress.com/2008/07/24/chiron-in-aries-through-the-houses-part-1/

      This is an extensive collection of what different astrologers have had to say about Pluto through the signs and houses – http://www.scribd.com/doc/31151867/2204105-Pluto-Sign-House-Aspect – If you scroll down to Pluto in the 7th, this includes a copy of Jeff Green’s write up, he’s considered one of the best authorities on Pluto in astrology.

      Attracting narcissists for someone with Pluto and Chiron on the 1st/7th relationship axis is in some ways par for the course because the theme is about power and wounding. Narcissists are the way that they are because they are wounded, and their wound makes them power hungry which in turn causes them to abuse power in relationships, thus wounding others.

      For you to block or repel narcissists, you need to understand why they are attracted to you – what is it about you that attracts them?

      You also need to ask yourself – why are you attracted to narcissists? – because the 1st/7th axis always has a back and forth flow due to the Libra influence, and Pluto and Chiron require that we see our own part in the relationship dynamic. Personal power and healing comes from being personally responsible and owning your part in relationships.

      To break free from a cycle, pattern, especially in relationships, you have to see both sides of the equation. Your part and their part, and what links the two from both sides. Aries/Libra is about self and other separate and combined.

      If you only blame yourself for what happens in a relationship, that is unbalanced and sucks away your power and healing because the onus crushes you. However, if you only blame others for what happens in relationships, that’s unbalanced too, and you give all your power and ability to heal away. The blame has to be shared for personal power and healing to work for you.

      Lilith is also about the correct use of power, and the consequences of the abuse of power.

      This is a very intriguing look at Mars and Lilith – http://planetwaves.net/2014/featured-articles/anger-and-motivation-the-good-the-bad-and-the-lilith.html – I like the quote at the beginning.

      β€œAnybody can become angry β€” that is easy, but to be angry with the right person and to the right degree and at the right time and for the right purpose, and in the right way β€” that is not within everybody’s power and is not easy.” β€” Aristotle

      Is transiting Uranus in your 1st at the moment? Has it conjuncted your Chiron? With Uranus transiting the 1st the urge to break free will be very strong, and will be a useful ally, however, the energy needs to be harnessed or it can create chaos. Uranus can be rather impulsive and in its urge to break free it sometimes throws everything onto the bonfire to get rid of it, which means it may throw away good things while getting rid of bad things.

      The challenge with Pluto and Chiron is to find the good within the bad, to find the healing in the wound, to find the creative in the destructive, to find the gift in the curse. To let trauma transform you in a positive way. Or at least that’s my experience of them.

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  4. Thank you for your replies. πŸ™‚

    I had an intriguing thought after mediation.. She didn’t possess any of these qualities. I still dunno what the hell happened! I guess I’ll find out through further exploration. Namaste.

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  5. I see said the blind man! I understood everything, except the last sentence.. If you’re liking me because of the traits I have which you also have… I don’t love myself. That can be a useful status as long as its influence is understood.

    Thank you for sharing. πŸ™‚

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    1. One of the things which humans tend to think is important to possess is self-love. There is so much written about – How to love yourself – and so much pressure to acquire self-love. We’re constantly being told how if you don’t love yourself your life will never be okay. We’re told that when we don’t love ourselves we’re missing out on the greatest love of all.

      Many businesses use the human tendency to fantasise about what self-love means and is, and our quest to have it, to sell us all sorts of products – buy this watch, car, fashion accessory, status symbol, this vacation, this App, etc, and you will love yourself. Find love using our dating agency. Get love by being more this or less that. There are a lot of authors and seminar givers who are making a fortune based on selling us self-love formulas.

      We set goals to achieve self-love – When I lose this weight I will love myself, when I have this amount of money I will love myself, when I get this person or thing I will love myself, etc, – we have this idea of what loving ourselves is supposed to be and it’s always off in the distance somewhere with us chasing it.

      Yet when we meet someone who seems to love themselves… we often get annoyed with them for it. Who do they think they are!?! When we say that ‘someone is in love with themselves’, we don’t tend to mean it as a compliment, and we’re often not happy for them. We may even decide to take them down a peg or two by trying to make them feel bad about loving themselves. Yet we’re always telling people that they should love themselves more, because it also annoys us when people don’t love themselves.

      The message is – Love yourself… but don’t love yourself (like that because it makes me not love myself)!

      Not loving ourselves is a very useful status, it’s a spur for many human activities and endeavours. A lot of what we do in life is due to our pursuit of self-love.

      I don’t love myself, but I’m not particularly bothered by it anymore. I always thought that if I loved myself it would solve everything, but the few times I’ve been in love with myself… I’ve attracted grief for it from others. If I say – Aren’t I great, beautiful, isn’t what I’ve done wonderful, etc, – there’s always someone who has to step up and wipe the smile off of my face. That same someone will then tell me to stop frowning as that’s ugly and they want me to smile as that’s beautiful.

      It’s a challenge to love yourself in a world which keeps making us hate ourselves, and making us hate ourselves for not loving ourselves.

      It’s easier just to realise that sometimes you’ll like yourself, sometimes you’ll dislike yourself, on occasion you’ll feel a rush of love for yourself, just as you feel a rush of hate for yourself. Things like love are fleeting, they come and go. Better just to get to know yourself and know that being yourself is a mixture of many different feelings which inspire different things.

      That’s what I meant. πŸ™‚

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  6. Lilith appears to be in mortal dread of losing his beauty, it’s as he is nearing the cusp…and he is not looking forward to eternal ugliness. Wow, most of the others are just annoyingly arrogant. Oh well, worldlings are worldlings.

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  7. No matter how high you put someone on a pedestal, they’re always going to let you down. I always tell people when entering a relationship, “I’m going to let you down and hurt you, but I will never do it on purpose.” They seem to forget, like you said. I’ll admit that I have a cyber crush on you, but in RL, you probably would annoy the crap out of me! πŸ˜‰ I’m rather dominate as well, and I don’t think this would sit with you too well. You make me think where others have not.

    ALL of this resonated with me, (at least this is how I see myself) except the part about pouring salt in my wounds if someone is tending to them. But maybe I do this, and just don’t know it yet. The wound is still too deep and fresh to tell yet. Yeah, ya do have the mirror aspect and affect. TBH, I didn’t like this post. So hence, if I have a crush on you and see myself in these traits, then why aren’t I “in love” with myself? Care to share insights? Probably not. πŸ˜›

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    1. My moon is in Virgo too! My astrological knowledge is very poor, but I have always thought that having the Moon on earth is not the best place … the moon up in the sky and the earth dry and still down there…

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      1. Ti ricordi che you shared your birth data with me a while ago when we had a chat about astrology.

        Your Moon is conjunct Pluto in Virgo, as well as being conjunct Uranus and Jupiter in Libra. They are all located in your 5th house of creative self-expression. Basically what this means is that you have a deep and usually abundant well of creativity within you which when you allow yourself to express it will nourish the deepest recesses of your being as well as have the potential to inspire and nourish others.

        The effect your creative self-expression will have on others is a matter of fear and concern for you as all those placements oppose Chiron conjunct North Node in Aries (those represent your karmic challenge and wound). Those are in your 11th house – your connection to the group, humanity, society, your part in society.

        The very thing which terrifies you is the very thing which will set you free. A very difficult challenge, but one which when faced will reap rewards both personal and interpersonal.

        Moon in Virgo is actually a good placement. The earth sign grounds the energy of the Moon. It ties the emotions to the physical. And if you think about it, most of us can only appreciate the beauty of the Moon with our feet on the Earth. So it’s actually a natural connection. Moon in Virgo tends to want to see emotions at work in the physical realm, it wants emotions to be practical. It doesn’t want to hear about the ethereal meaning of a feeling, it wants to feel it, see it, do something with it. Virgo Moons don’t talk of love, they act on love. If someone is hungry, don’t talk of giving them food, give them food, better still teach them how to grow their own food and feed themselves. And if Virgo Moon is hungry it doesn’t want someone to tell them all about all this abstract food which one day will be real, it is hungry and wants real food right here and now. That’s a Virgo Moon πŸ™‚

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        1. That’s me in every bit of my cells!! i find fascinating how you analyze a chart from a psychological perspective, it’s true what they say, in the Renaissance, it was the fisrt form of psychology, Marsilio Ficino and Pico della Mirandola would adore to have a conversation with you on the subject!!
          I tried many times to figure out the meaning of my planet and houses but alas, i can’t;The only thing I know is that I love my Mercury in Aquarius., and I love Aquarius men:)) as the intellectual feature is important to me..I have no energy and I can’t express myself even with words, as i can stare at the screen for hours as i am paralysed, even if i want to drop a line to you, can you imagine writing for myself.
          I would love to know a bit more about Chiron and the wound and my venus in Aries conjunct saturn which is very severe as i have been told.
          Could you please help me or tell me how to read it? Sorry, I never dared asking you…

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          1. Chiron is a complex placement to explore because the wound is personal (as well as being interpersonal), and what heals the wound lies within the wound itself, so what astrologers write about Chiron, as detailed as it can sometimes be, it can be quite vague because it needs to be informed by our own personal experience of wounding. Our personal wound contains our personal healing.

            When Chiron is conjunct North Node it complicates matters yet also makes them clearer – the wound must be explored rather than avoided. – as the North Node represents where we must go. The North Node is also where we are most reluctant to go, as it always opposes the South Node which is our comfort zone and it asks us to leave our comfort zone to learn about the uncomfortable zone.

            I have comes across a some very intriguing and insightful posts about it which I’ve bookmarked:

            http://www.moonkissd.com/2011/03/21/chiron-a-change-in-attitude/

            https://chirotic.wordpress.com/2008/08/01/chiron-in-aries-through-the-houses-part-2/

            http://astrofix.net/2014/09/11/chiron-conjunct-north-node/

            http://www.hniizato.com/chiron-in-natal-chart-reader-question/

            This is a hub for info on Chiron from a good astrology site – http://planetwaves.net/chiron/

            With Saturn conjunct Venus – it’s not a severe placement per se. It depends on interpretation. If you’re looking at it from the perspective of Saturn aspecting Venus then what is written about it can be quite gloomy. But if you look at it from the perspective of Venus aspecting Saturn then it can be quite uplifting. Your Venus aspects your Mercury in a friendly and supportive manner, therefore Mercury can help Venus deal with Saturn’s influence – in other words your mind must aid your loving nature and help you to understand where you feel restricted in that area. In Aries – initiative is the key. Boldly going forwards, while also realising that the wild child of Aries need to learn about the restrictions, guidelines and rules, imposed by Saturn.

            Saturn is the parent figure of the chart, the father – and it is sometimes used to understand the influence of the actual father on the child self. However, it is more about the inner parent we are to our inner child. Saturn is uncomfortable in Aries, but once you learn to work with the discomfort, it can be a fun placement (that’s my Capricorn talkng, Cappy has a soft spot for Saturn… eventually after it stops hating it).

            There are many different ways to look at each placement and the aspects involved. They are best understood by exploring it and getting a feel for how it works for you and what in reveals to you about you. Your astrology chart is a map of you, therefore only you can really read it. If others try to interpret your chart for you, you will get their take on it, as you would get their view of you which is subjective, therefore won’t ever be without their personal bias (or their own chart affecting their perspective).

            This was quite an interesting take on Venus conjunct Saturn – http://astromatrix.org/Horoscopes/Planet-Aspects/Venus-Conjunct-Saturn – as it correlated with something you said in another comment on another post.

            Let your Mercury in Aquarius explore, that’s what it loves to do… see what you find! Best way to use astrology! πŸ™‚

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            1. Thank you, this is going to keep me going with my curiosity for a while.
              I have been told that Saturn conjunct Aries meant i am attracted to older men and them to me (which is accurate) but know i will try to see my own truth!

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    2. There are many reasons for getting friendly crushes on people. Each crush holds the clue to why we have it, and we just have to ask ourselves – What is it that I like about this person? – to get our answer.

      It can be as simple as the fact that when we’re interacting with them we feel good about ourselves. Our crush on them helps us to have a crush on ourselves. We like ourselves because we like them.

      Interactions can have an element of chemical reaction to them.

      With some people just by being in their company, talking with them, or even just thinking about them, we feel inspired, energised, motivated, in love with life, ourselves. The world feels like a great place to be when we’re with them, because they exist. They make us enjoy being alive.

      Or they may have a soothing effect on us, they are the balm to our wound, the calm in our storm, the whisper which tells us everything will be alright. They restore our faith in humanity.

      The opposite can happen too. With certain people we just feel like shit, drained, depressed, demotivated. Just thinking about them sucks the joy out of us and out of living. They bring out the worst in us, and we don’t like that side being dredged out of where we hide it.

      And we can have an instant dislike for someone, a reverse crush, for what seems like no apparent reason, there’s just something about them that rubs us the wrong way. They somehow represent what we don’t like about life.

      We may like someone due to a trait, a behaviour, a style, a way of being which inspires us in some way. Maybe they are expressing something we’d like to be able to express too. Or they’re doing something we’d like to do. So we are drawn to them to learn about that which inspires us. To absorb what they’re emanating. To find that within ourselves.

      Sometimes what they have is something we also have, but it’s latent within us and they help us to bring it out. We didn’t know we loved something until we loved them. We didn’t know we could do something or wanted to do something until our crush on them made us aware of it.

      If they seem confident and we’d like to be as confident as they seem to be, we are attracted to their confidence and that attraction serves to help us learn more about confidence, what it is, how to be that way. A genuinely confident person can teach us how to be confident just by getting to know them, being in their presence, absorbing their way of being. Their real confidence brings our own confidence out of us.

      Or maybe they just have a piece of information which we need and we didn’t know we needed it until we became interested in them. Things like celebrity crushes are very good for this. Our interest in an actor might make us look them up, research them, their life and career, and perhaps watch all of their films, and through one of the films we might find an answer to a question we’ve been asking, or through some detail of their life we discover a piece of the puzzle of our own life story.

      The crush serves to create a bond that holds our interest, focuses our attention and opens our mind to the information this person holds for us about whatever it is we want to find out. Or about what we didn’t know we wanted to find out until we had the crush.

      We tend to learn more about ourselves through interacting with others, we get to know ourselves better through getting to know them, we discover our passions, talents, abilities through our attraction to the passions, talents and abilities of others. Who they are brings out who we are.

      Your crush on me is very straightforward. You had your life destroyed by a narcissist, she made everything great about you seem awful. You have a painful, raw wound and you want to heal it, but since you’re an intelligent and independent person you want the means to heal your own wound rather than just find a port in a storm where someone covers your wound in the bandaids of platitudes. You like to self-reflect, figure things out for yourself, think things through, ask questions, challenge the status quo, which is why you like me because I do those things too and I encourage others to do it.

      I think we’d get along in person, but might find each other irritating in a good way. Strong characters like to butt heads, it’s fun and insightful. I like the fact that you can take a challenge, and that you dish challenges right back at me. Besides our mutual crush on Jason Statham is a solid bond πŸ˜‰

      I like to pour salt in my wounds to test my mettle, to raise my pain tolerance threshold, and to prepare myself for others using that tactic. Narcissists do that on a regular basis to get at you, they stab you where it hurts, if you do it to yourself you can teach yourself not to be affected by it when they do it, and therefore not allow them to control you with your own weakness – make your weakness a strength. When someone tries to use my weaknesses against me, they’ve just exposed their own vulnerability to me. Martial arts 101. πŸ˜‰

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      1. Lol at irritate each other in a good way.. I dunno if a Lion and a Goat would make it without one killing the other at some point. I crush you because you’re intelligent and very creative. These are two highly desirable qualities for me. I crush you because you seem elegant, and this is something I’d wish to be. I crush you because your shy and a richie. This goes back to my childhood. I went to school with riches, but I was not. The girls all had mad crushes on me, but their parents always hated me. I didn’t match the status quo in their lives and perception. I stopped being a jock (sports player) because I wasn’t accepted in the richie boys club, and assumed the bad boy role. I didn’t realize until much later in life, that it was mutual usage. I haven’t done any serious self-reflection until recently. I just did! Maybe that’s the whole point of this narc crap.. Evolution.

        I dunno if you understood my question. I see myself in all of these traits you described. So if I have a crush on you having these traits, why don’t I love myself? It’s not a trick question, just wanted to hear your thoughts.

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        1. Thank you very much πŸ™‚

          I did share my thoughts with regards to your question, I’ll admit I did it in my typical rambling style, but a question like that is one that is supposed to take you on a journey through ideas, possibilities, contemplation, etc, until you find your own answer. Which you have. You’ve answered your own question.

          This is an interesting article – https://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/199403/soul-mates – it’s by an author who has written a lot about the dynamics of relationships, especially about how our relationships affect us, and the complex connections between our relationship with ourselves and our relationships with others.

          Having a crush on someone because they remind you of yourself doesn’t necessarily bring about self love just because you love them for the very things you have in yourself. It can make you appreciate yourself more, but that requires for you to make the connection between what you like in them and that this is also something in you, then turning your appreciation for them towards yourself and working with it internally. You have to become conscious of why you love them to benefit from the love, and perhaps love yourself for the reasons you love them.

          Often what happens with us is that we compare ourselves with others in a way which makes us feel as though we’re lacking what someone else has, even if both people have the same thing, a similar trait. We tend to find it easier to appreciate the trait in the other person than we do with the same trait in ourselves because the trait is simplified for us when we see it in the other person, it may also be idealised, because when we look at them the trait doesn’t have all the complications it has for us within ourselves.

          When we look at others we see what we’re projecting onto them and the outer expression of their trait rather than what is going on behind the scenes, whereas with ourselves we’re more focused on what is going on behind the scenes.

          Take a smile, for instance. If you see someone else’s smile, all you see is the smile. The smile is simplified. If you smile, you know what’s going on behind your smile. You know if it is genuine or forced. You know if you’re smiling because you’re happy, pleased to see someone, or if it’s an angry smile, a sad smile, a smile you’ve plastered on to be polite in a social setting, or to hide what you’re really feeling. Whereas someone looking at you is only going to see your smile and not what’s going on behind it inside of you. They may look at your smile and wish that they could smile like that. Maybe they’re smiling too, but they know what’s going on behind their smile and that changes how they experience their own smile, compared to how they’re experiencing yours.

          Maybe both of you are smiling because you’re being polite, but neither of your is as happy as your smiles seem to the other person.

          If you’re liking me because of the traits I have which you also have… I don’t love myself. That can be a useful status as long as its influence is understood. It’s the source of a lot of inspiration for me to do what I do.

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