I have a friend who I can annoy very easily, and get them to react to me as though I was a Mentos dropped into a full Coke bottle, just by my mentioning astrology within earshot of them. If I had a penny for every time they felt compelled to tell me that astrology is not ‘scientific’ and therefore ‘bunk’, and I have to reply that I don’t care…
(and bite my tongue because I don’t want to hurt them by telling them that their love of science is a love for pop science rather than real science…
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this person likes to eat the cake which someone else made, sliced and then sold to them in a cute little take-away box wrapped with a pretty bow. They don’t want to make the cake, know how the cake was made, how the recipe came about, who sweated over a hot oven, got their fingers dirty, or where all the ingredients came from – perhaps because they might have to not eat the cake they want to eat if an ingredient came from a country which is being exploited so that my friend can have cheap cake)…
I would be able to afford an expensive slice of cake made from ‘organic’ ingredients by a top chef (who may commit suicide because baking can be stressful when you’re at the top of the game competing only with your perfection-obsessed self).
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(cheap cake… yum!)
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I had another friend who
(isn’t a friend anymore because I moved miles away from them, not because of them)
would froth at the mouth if I said the word ‘god’ near them. They once went on an atheist rant at me because I said OMG near them and they thought I was preaching religion… I had to be stopped!
What both these friends have in common is – they’re too easy to provoke, you can do it without intending to do it, and they’re not interested in anything other than reacting to being provoked, so they look for a provocation even if it isn’t actually there.
That’s a common thing you see online in the comments section of articles and posts. Someone taking offense to anything just so they can vent, rant, and feel… what is the feeling they’re after?
I’ve concluded that they want to feel safe somehow in a world which makes them feel very unsafe.
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Another thing they have in common is their need to tell others what they’re not allowed to believe in – they believe they have a right to tell you that you don’t have a right to believe in what they have decided that they don’t believe in and don’t want you to believe in because… it bothers them and forces them to rant at you. Stop forcing them to do that to you! Just accept their belief in non-belief in which they believe very strongly and… Peace on earth, goodwill to all men (not sure about women and children) will reign (for about five seconds).
And it doesn’t matter how many times I have told them that the things I enjoy exploring aren’t things I necessarily believe in, that I’m not the kind of person who believes in anything enough to call it a belief and be loyal to it… to die for it or bother fighting someone else over it…
that’s a waste of breath, they’re not listening to others to hear another point of view, they’re listening to get annoyed enough to share their point of view and impose it… even though both of them firmly fight against the imposition of others’ views on them or others (just not those others they’re taking to task).
What has any of this got to do with astrology?
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Awhile ago someone showed me that astrology isn’t only about looking at your Sun sign and then trying to squeeze who you are into the skinny jeans of an interpretation of your sign.
Looking at interpretations is interesting, but those write-ups are designed to be one-size-fits-all.
For instance, I’m a Monkey in Chinese astrology… but so is everyone else born during that year and all the other Monkey years like this year. That’s a lot of people who are exactly like me! Are we really all the same? Are we all mischievous chimps whose favourite pastime is throwing our pooh at you (did we all also sniff our fingers and then lick them!) from high up in a tree where you can’t get us… unless the branch we’re sitting on breaks.
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If what I said made your nose crinkle and your mouth spout out an Ewwww!… please send your thanks to my natal Uranus trine Mercury in Aquarius who loves to imagine the ridiculous and then share it to shock.
Why do I do that? Because it’s fun and I’m terrified of being bored. Almost everything I do is a desperate attempt to keep boredom at bay… and I get bored very easily, especially with myself, but also with others who keep doing the same thing over and over and over and over…
When I catch myself being that repetitive I strap a bomb to myself and blow myself up… I love puzzles, so trying to put the post-blow-up pieces together is one way to avoid being bored, and who knows what the end result will be.
Blowing myself up in a self-destructive manner comes courtesy of having natal Pluto in the 1st house (the slice of the astrological chart cake representing the self) trine (this is supposed to be a harmonious aspect) Sun (the ego). I do find harmony in taking a wrecking ball to my ego and then starting again.
If anyone else tries to do the same thing to me… I hope you’re wearing a hard hat glued to your head and that you’re not afraid of aftershocks, and the clouds of dust you’ll kick up.
If you try to destroy me… one of two things might happen:
- I don’t care enough to do anything about what you’ve done or tried to do (there’s a big streak of lazy in my natal chart), and I might see what you’ve done or tried to do as a gift in a curse – time for me to change, I stayed too long in one form, grew rigid, got stuck… you’ve actually done me a favour and I owe you one, if you ever want to be destroyed so you can rise out of your own ashes, let me know. You did a solid for me, let me do one for you!
- You’ve just pissed of my Pluto, and once you’ve pissed Pluto off, he calls in my Mars in Scorpio, and worse still… my Capricorn becomes more Capricorn than it was before. If you think Capricorns are annoying when we’re not even trying to be that way, wait until we actually decide to be that way.
- There really shouldn’t be a third option when you said there were only two… welcome to my Monkey side!
Am I joking? I could be, Monkey is never sure.
If you’re not like either of my two friends,
who have to be given kudos for daring to be friends with me because…
I’m a pretty terrible friend – you can see that in my natal chart:
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This is my natal chart, plus added asteroids because people sometimes ask me about them, so here they are.
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But…
I’m also very loyal if you see past my terrible friend aspects and love me anyway.
I will stick by you while you go through your a-hole phase because I know what it’s like to go through that kind of a phase – your heart is breaking at each brick you place into that giant wall you’re building to keep others out. Sometimes you throw those bricks at them (even though that costs you – bricks ain’t cheap unless they’re made somewhere where the workforce is being exploited, but those who sell you those bricks still charge you the going rate, maybe more, because… humans are greedy for more for less!)
If you can see past all the lines drawn, you’ll spot my soft, fluffy underbelly which can be sliced with a blunt fingernail and all my guts will spew out with sticky warmth.
I will remember everything you have told me about yourself even when you thought I wasn’t listening because I looked like I was away with the fairies (the fairies were listening and took notes). I can hear the volumes your silences speak and I won’t take it personally. I know you don’t like that… I won’t do that, but if I do… I’ll understand why you hate me for it.
If you say that it’s not me but you… I’ll trust you about that. If you didn’t mean it… then don’t say the opposite of what you mean because I’ll remember that you do that and challenge everything you say afterwards.
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I can be a fucked-up fucktard, but this isn’t as awful as it sometimes feels and seems, it can give insight when mindfulness (the pop word du jour) is applied to one’s own fuf-ness into the fucked-up fucktardiness of others. It informs intelligent empathy – Dude, I totally get why you’re being an a-hole as I’ve been that a-hole too. You get a pass, a joker to play, for this game, try to use it wisely (or don’t because I’ve also wasted chances).
I am both the worst friend you’ll ever have and quite a good one… I’m that way with myself, and how I am with myself is how I’ll be with you, although I do try to tone myself down for others because I find myself to be too abrasive sometimes. I’ll use the less scratchy sandpaper with you, but you may not appreciate what I’m doing… until a long while later or maybe not even then.
I have Mars Square Mercury – if I think I’m being an idiot, I will tell myself bluntly what I think. I try not to do that with others, not that bluntly… doesn’t always work because my idea of not blunt is still too blunt (the sharp kind of blunt).
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If you ask me to answer you honestly… I’ll struggle to not do it even when I know you don’t really want what you asked for (bloody Moon in 12th psychic mojo-nogo) because I know how it can feel to hear it… I especially know how it can feel when you tell it when someone does not like the feeling of hearing it.
On the flip side (and I’m all about flip sides because of my natal Jupiter in Libra in the 2nd house of personal values, and its oppositions… how those can hurt, but there is healing in that kind of pain… and my effing Jupiter is a bouncy thing, bouncing back from the negative with a woohoo I’ve found the positive in the negative!) I will tell you about your talents, abilities, and awesome side far more often than I will ever tell you that you’ve made or been a boob. Boobs are awesome!
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I love my friend who hates astrology. Astrology scares them due to everything it represents to them – the unknown. They’re afraid of the chaos caused by people believing in things which seem to make them want to blow up the world… which might hurt the ones this friend loves. We all feel powerless against the crazy in the human., and we keep trying to find the crazy gene to control it… We all want to protect those we love from the crazy in the human… although we can’t always protect them from the crazy in the human that we are, we try.
One of the sweetest people I have ever met told me to stay away from them because they were damaged and didn’t want to damage me with their damage.
(I have Chiron in Pisces in the 7th – people, strangers and non-strangers, tend to blurt out their wounds when in my company, because I feel ya…)
It’s funny how those who appear to be the biggest a-holes can sometimes be the most sensitive to their effect on others, while those who make a big song and dance about how kind and sensitive they are to others…
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So I put up with my friend’s need to diss my love for astrology because (they put up with me loving something they hate) they have a kind heart, their reasons for being an a-hole come from a good place.
And they remind me of something I often forget (I have a very forgetful side which can be seen in my chart… Neptune I’m looking at you in particular, because I totally blame you for my inability to tell the time even when I use a clock)… that things which I consider normal aren’t always the norm for others.
I’m weird (all of my chart points to that) and so weirdness is my normal.
And your normal if it differs from mine becomes my weird… but totally intriguing, tell me more!
I am grateful also to my atheist rant friend for being passionate beyond atheism (and they apologised once they realised they’d made a mistake where my use of the word god was concerned) – they have a gift for making sweet music which they share with others as a DJ. They help others to find their rhythm, even if sometimes it requires a bit of disharmony to find the right harmony. If you’re a passionate person… it ripples into everything. Gotta appreciate where it shines, and sometimes shrug off where it doesn’t.
Humans are… human. Astrology is quite good at helping us understand our human self and stop picking on it so much, at showing how something negative also has a flip side which is positive. You often can’t have one without the other, even though it is intrinsically human to try to blow up the negative so that only the positive exists. But it can’t exist without that which informs it… how do you recognise something positive if you don’t have a negative to compare it with?
If you’ve ever done anything you’re not proud of… you know how much it has inspired you to do things of which you are proud.
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(one of my scars looks like a seahorse).
An Upturned Soul 
Love this.. its so laugh out loud funny and full of your amazing twists and turn take on foibles viewed from every possible perspective. That kind of response to astrology is one you get all the time. My ex used to call it “bunkum”… and in a funny way referred to himself as a capsicum rather than a
Capricorn. Its such a loose lovely place to be in, not too fazed with others different perspective on things you might hold close to your heart or find meaning in. Its kinda funny though often people who don’t agree with astrology end up confirming its validity with some of their responses.
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Thank you 🙂
Ever since I’ve been interested in astrology I’ve been blissfully unaware until recently that other people had such a strong negative reaction to it. I mean I knew not everyone liked the subject, and many thought it was BS, but I figured that they’d do what I do when I don’t like a subject, think something is BS, and that is not bother too much about it. I don’t feel compelled to tell others that if they like something I don’t, if they’re into something I think is BS, they’re not allowed to do that and if they keep doing it there’s something wrong with them. They have their reasons just as I have mine, and that’s something to respect especially if you want respect returned. Respect yourself enough to be respectful of others. And surely if you think something is BS, then it’s BS so why give it so much attention, and if you can’t ignore it then perhaps this subject needs further investigation, why not research it more deeply, such as ask yourself why you have such a strong negative reaction to it and why you feel the need to tell others what they’re allowed to like according to you.
Growing up with narcissists has a positive flip side – you get so bored of being told that you have to hate everything and everyone for some reason or another which only makes sense to the narcissist, that eventually you end up liking everything and everyone just to balance the scales – okay, that’s an exaggeration, what I actually mean is you end up placing less value on the opinions of others and start figuring out for yourself how you view those things from a personal perspective, and that often entails looking into someone or something more deeply, which is always an adventure that opens the mind.
If we want peace then we need to make peace with ourselves and allow others to have the pieces which are important to them even if they’re not important to us. Or something like that 😉
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I think the vehemence of some of the reactions speaks of some need to defend against the idea of astrology and a rigidity of thinking and outlook that can’t really embrace the symbolic which is one of the most beautiful aspects of astrology to my mind. Its such a deep and interesting study that I find it sad that others close their minds to something which is so chock full of insight and speaks of something deeply living and transformative if you can embrace it. There are cases of scientists who have set out to debunk astrology and then been totally converted once they studied it in depth. So I really agree with what you say and also ask the question Why? Why do you feel the need to be so defensive about it. Anyway often its just based on an incomplete knowledge.
Its really interesting what you mentioned about narcissists. It amazes me to see the way certain members of my family see only negativities based on their own shocked ego’s thwarted agenda which then enables them to paint others black who actually have really lovely traits. There is a lack of empathy or ability to see any deeper than their own individual projection of good/bad, black/white, wrong/right. No capacity for paradox or irony.
What do you think is the basis of that deep hate they have? I guess its part of living in a deeply split/defended universe within where all their pain is converted anger or hate. To soften would feel too much like a defeat for them so they have to keep defended at any cost.
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Anyway its no concern when others dis astrology. I’m so used to it, have had some difficult clients when I practised it for a who misunderstood what astrology is really about – self knowledge and self awareness in response to larger forces of transformation which take you through different doorways and experiences many of which can be painful, they wanted answers and certainties and often astrology can open up even more questions..
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I think some people find relief in hating. It’s a very strong sensation, and can make people feel powerful when they feel powerless, it can make them feel focused when they’re confused – it often is a focal point for many other feelings which are confusing, particularly fear, and it gives the impression of being able to clarify that which confuses.
If you think about the times when you’ve felt hate, whether for a person, for some thing, or for an injustice, it can be an addictive feeling and thought pattern, reassuring in a bizarre manner. Hating is simpler than trying to figure out what’s really bothering us or going on.
Once we’ve committed ourselves to a hate it can be hard to back down because it may require admitting that perhaps we have made a mistake in judgment, and facing things which make us too vulnerable.
Hating others distracts us from hating ourselves.
And if others hate us, that disturbs us and hating them back makes their hate easier to deal with.
It’s one of the first mind controlled feelings which we encounter. Children are often saying I hate this or them. They have very strong aversions especially to that which makes them afraid. We tend to be loyal to our first coping mechanism. So as adults we may rely on a childish coping mechanism when we feel as we did when we were children.
It’s easier to see that in narcissists as they don’t hide their childish approach the way that many adults do.
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Thanks so much for those insights. Lately I am struggling with a lot of anger coming out of my cancer surgery. At times I want to harden my heart but I keep getting pulled back into softness and compassion.
The thing about hate is it prevents you seeing into the other person’s reality and at times we meet up against injustices that just hurt too much and why they come about is hard to fathom, we are hurting and its hard to know what to do with that hurt.
Others, like you said erect a defence (we all have different defences) we try to push something away that feels too painful to face. We may criticise then, ourselves or others which also seems to be a way of avoiding certain feelings.
Did you struggle with hate towards your parents? Did you have a lot of anger?
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I have Mars in Scorpio and Pluto in the 1st – anger and hate come as default settings with those placements. Add Chiron in the 7th and relationships with others stoke the fire in our personal wounds. Sometimes others have the same personal wounds as we have and that can go in many directions, often taking the path of least resistance before moving into a more complex system of paths where you try to understand why you’re so angry and hate someone.
We often hate those who didn’t love us the way we wanted to be loved by them. And if those people we hate happen to be our parents, that shit is very complicated because maybe they had us hoping we’d be the answer to their own hate and anger issues, maybe the baby was supposed to love them unconditionally in a way that no one else had and that baby failed because it can’t love those who are closed to being loved because they’re only open for hate and anger towards them.
I’ve written quite a bit on my blog about my hate and anger towards my parents, writing about it has helped me to stop being stuck there – keeping it quiet about it for many years before I broke my silence helped to keep me stuck there.
I don’t hate them as much as I used to or feel a angry as I once did. In fact recently I’ve been perplexed by the lack of anger I feel towards anyone, ncluding myself. It’s left a bit of an empty space.
Awhile back you shared an experience of an interaction you had with a therapist who couldn’t handle your anger – your therapist reacted personally to something you shared which was personal to you and not to them while you were supposed to be in a safe environment to share it.
Anger is a primal force. Hate is a mental construct of primal anger. All humans have this so when one expresses it it triggers that of others.
Pluto in the 1st learns about the right use of power often through the abuse and wrong use of it. It has to deal with primal forces and their roles in ‘civilisied’ life.
Sometimes the best thing we can do with hurt is to remember it connects us all and we’re all prone to dealing with it in ways which trigger it for others and that creates chaos – but chaos has an order to it.
Sometimes when we scream, or cry, it allows others to do it too – but we may not like the sound they’re making as they may not liek ours. Or we may feel they’re intruding on our moment by them making our moment their moment too.
Anger is sometimes all we have to protect us from something far more threatening than it is.
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Yes, wise and true. I still feel I have a problematic relationship with anger and it is so true that others pain stirs up our own and then it can be a mutual trigger fest until we can step back and figure it out.
Still anger needs to be raw and immediate as in the jungle if you cant lash out first to defend you will end up as raw meat.
This becomes problematic with humans. Do we have a right to kill someone who ensnared and abused us for years?
Sometimes its just a spur of the moment thing because we were triggered and later when the smoke dies down we think “Wow” that incident triggered historical anger ad even rage we were carrying from many earlier incidents.
I think Mars is going retrograde soon so this discussion may be a precursor for issues we face during that time.
Also I was thinking that if lately you don’t feel as much anger it may be because you felt and processed a lot. That is how I am feeling following my operation.
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And the idea of feeling threatened in a way that is out of proportion is a very interesting and true point. Sometimes I find myself having a reaction to something at the time and later it seems as though I was in a state of not seeing quite clearly the reality, was blinded and reacted too defensively.
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Some people see red when they get angry and it blanks out everything, anger dominates. I’ve never had that so I’m not sure how it actually works internally, but I’ve been around people who experience that kind of anger and you usually have to step back out of their way and wait for them to run out of steam. They often seem to have no logical reasoning during the rage. It’s a red fog. They often say afterwards – I don’t know what came over me. It may have to do with how anger affects the chemicals in their brain. So much of the world of feeling emotion may be connected to our chemical system.
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Anger is one of those strong reactions which makes everyone uncomfortable, which is partly why we never really learn how to be comfortable with our own anger as we’re taught from an early age that it’s unacceptable to express it. We’re always being told to contain it, dismiss it, get rid of it like it’s toxic waste – and we all know how people often deal with getting rid of toxic waste and what happens due to that. If we can’t be comfortable with our own anger we can’t be comfortable with the anger of others, and so we pass on the message that anger is unacceptable.
Our anger suppressed can become a minefield around us for others. They may trigger it without them actually doing anything which warranted it. This works the other way around too – the anger of others is a minefield around them and we may trigger it without warranting their outburst.
Like you pointed out, we’re reacting to historical anger and so are others. Chances are whatever the root of it was, if we’d been allowed to process it there and then we’d be okay now, but because it was treated as dangerous then, turned into something to fear and repressed, it becomes a bigger issue over time, festering and getting angrier than it ever was to begin with.
The thing we’re angry about may not even be something connected to anger, it’s just become connected to it over time.
I’ve never been one to lose my temper with others. I do get furious sometimes but I count to ten. Sometimes I’d like to scream and shout, throw a punch or a vase at them, but I grew up with people who did this regularly and being on the receiving end of that as their regular target for their regular outbursts made me reluctant to put others through that as it doesn’t solve anything, the problem stays the same and may get worse. The person who loses their shit does seem to feel so much better for it for a short spell but they don’t seem to sort out the issue and they usually need to do it again and again when the pressure rebuilds. And they inspire so much resentment in others.
I find it more productive to take myself off to a private place and figure out why I’m really angry. More often than not I’m actually angry at myself rather than at the other person. If it is due to the other person it still usually has a personal point of reference which needs to be addressed first. I prefer to express my anger calmly if I can because I prefer to get my point across. Trying to get a point across with screaming and shouting doesn’t work because the other person can’t hear you over the screaming inside of them which your external screaming has inspired/triggered. If you think about when someone is raging at you can you actually understand anything they’re saying, there’s too much external and internal turmoil to clearly hear what the problem actually is.
I think one of the reasons I’m less angry now than I used to be is simply because I’m more comfortable with my own anger. Transiting Saturn conjuncting my natal Mars recently while I was going through something which triggered all my old angry spots helped with that. I’m a little less addicted to the feeling of being angry inside. I think I realised how much time and effort I wasted being angry all the time. I’m bored of being angry, perhaps.
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Yes I can really understand how you got to that point at the end of a long journey. And you are right often getting angry achieves nothing, if its a reaction that just takes place as a lash out in response to being violated or frustrated.
My Mum used to throw things too.
Its much better to do what you do take yourself off and try to process why you are feeling angry rather than dump it on others.
I learned a lot about this in my relationship. Going off the deep end does alienate others but I do feel that at times it may be all we are capable of and showing empathy for someone wigging out in this way by trying to put yourselves in their shoes is important if the person isn’t a serial abuser who uses anger to frighten and control others and try to bring others around to their way of thinking.
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However reading that last part back that person would not have achieved a good connection with their own anger and it is better to be able to know what made you angry and then talk about it to others in a calmer way in order to get your point across. Not being able to have and understand our anger in childhood leaves us psychologically immature. Being around adults like that is confusing but probably teaches you good lessons about what NOT to do as it will hurt others. Your upbringing taught you so much.
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Sometimes we have to be our own parent to the child within us, and maybe we’ll do a better job of it than our parents did, or maybe we won’t. Hard to tell sometimes. Maybe life is all about the friction and not about the lack of it.
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We all have to figure things out our own way.
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True and sometimes that is really difficult to do.
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Also viva la weird!
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Totally 😀 Diversity makes the garden of life a bountiful place!
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Hello Ursula, it’s your egotistical douchebagian (but charmingly meek) correspondent. 😉
George Carlin once said, “atheism is a prophetless institution.” For some reason, this came across my day right after I read your post – astrological? Maybe. Get it? Astro … logical? 😉 Definitely feeling silly after reading your wonderfully circuitous and brilliant post. Loved it. 😀
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Haha 😀 Thank you!
Ooooh, I love George Carlin’s crazy wisdom!
And I love coincidences.
I often find that everything I come across during one day seems to be weirdly connected – is the universe trying to tell me something!?! Or is it just a case of penguins – this refers to something I read about focal points and filtering. At any given moment we are flooded with information about everything, but we filter most of it out or else we’d go insane (X-mas shopping is an instance of being unable to filter enough out and so it feels crazy. DIY stores do that for me, suddenly I need it all or don’t want anything because my mind has a meltdown), but sometimes something alters our usual filters, a new factor becomes a focal point, say for some reason penguins become important to you and suddenly you see references to penguins everywhere where you never noticed them before, and because you didn’t notice them before you think they weren’t there but now they are so penguins suddenly become even more meaningful. These penguins are talking to me about some very important matter!
When we open ourselves up to a new concept, all information pertaining to that new concept rushes into to us 🙂
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i do appreciate your unconventional and non judgemental way of being and thinking, and your honesty- being honest to oneself and to others is the cornerstone for me.xxx
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I’ve tried being more narrow in my approach because I was hoping to be less diffuse, to focus myself more and stop being an endless stream of distracting tangents, but I’ll never stop being that child who liked to run around naked and poo in the bushes because that’s what the dogs did and I couldn’t be bothered to trek back all the way across the garden to the WC inside the house (as I would have forgotten nature’s call by then) 😉
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