Narcissism is the Game, and You’re It

It always makes me chuckle, a slightly sad and tired chuckle, when I read certain things. In recent years Narcissism has become big news. For psychologists, pop psychologists, bloggers, and the media. That’s the way of the world, something catches our attention and starts to trend, and off we go. Overexposure ensues, we get bored of that subject, and move on to the next. Just like with all other trends, fads, and popular culture subjects. It is neither good, nor bad, it’s just the way we evolve, learn, and move. It has a rhythm just like everything else.

Narcissism is one of those subjects on which I would consider myself to be a bit of an expert. Both my parents were Narcissists. But other than that I have no credentials. So… my view doesn’t really count. Doesn’t matter, I’m used to that, growing up with Narcissists you learn very quickly that you, as an entity, a living, breathing, independent soul, don’t exist. You’re a thing. An extension of someone else. A piece of property. A slave to a master. A blood source for a vampire. Food. An ego boosting vitamin. As long as you know your place, and play your part, you’re fine… well, sort of, because you’re never fine as far as Narcissists are concerned. Let’s just say you’re ignored, useful, and used. And as long as you tacitly accept this, you’re tolerated, very generously put up with by the Narcissists. Because they’re wonderful like that. If at any point you decide to think for yourself, claim some independence, or do that most inconvenient thing of having personal feelings and emotions… well, you brought their hellfire down upon yourself. You asked for it, and so they gave it to you. Narcissists are incredibly generous.

I have read countless – countless as in I can’t remember how many – books and articles on Narcissism. They all glibly tell you the same thing. If you’re in a relationship with a Narcissist, leave, get out, and don’t look back. This is when I chuckle that sad and tired chuckle. If you’ve ever been in a relationship with a Narcissist – a real Narcissist, not just someone you’ve decided is a Narcissist because they are a little bit self obssessed – then you know that there is no such thing as leaving or getting out of the relationship. Not if you are the one doing the leaving, and even if they discard you, they never let you go, because they know you might turn out to be useful to them some day.

I cut all ties with my parents… eventually. It wasn’t an easy decision. Not because of them and the endless guilt, shame, and blame they generously gave me. But because of innocent outside observers who have opinions about your life they like to share when they feel you need to be told the truth about how badly wrong you are living your life. And Narcissists always have an army of acolytes to do their dirty work for them. My Godfather was a child psychologist. He believed all children were evil, or, at least, that’s the impression he gave me when he told me that I was the one to blame for how my parents treated me the one time I asked him for help. I was a brat. I was obviously born that way, nothing at all to do with my parents. My behaviour never had anything to do with my parents and their complete lack of parenting skills. Of course not. Blame nature, not nurture. Nurture is really quite powerless and completely pointless it seems, especially where nature is concerned. Especially the nature of children of Narcissists. Poor Narcissists, they made the mistake of breeding, of passing on their impressive and totally awesome genes of utter super human supremacy, and the ungrateful offspring spat in their perfectly symmetrical faces.

Children of Narcissists usually don’t ask others for help, because they’re encouraged not to do so. It is an inconvenience. And no one ever believes you, because Narcissists are very adept at putting on a show, appearing perfect, wonderful, sane, reasonable, and good. Their victims always appear crazy, illogical, unreasonable, and evil. And their children are always ungrateful brats.

And people wonder why I keep my distance. Why I don’t confide in my friends. Rarely, if ever, ask for help. I’ve tried to explain… but it’s one of those conundrums which can never be solved. I try to simplify the story, but nothing connected to a Narcissist is ever simple. They use confusion and complication as a tool of power. Keep people’s heads spinning and you own them. When I simplify the story, I make it worse. When I tell the unsimplified version, I make it worse. Lose/lose situation… just the way the Narcissists intended it to be. They win again. And again. And again.

I created my own version of the Witness Protection Program when I severed ties with my parents. It worked for a while. It was nice. Quiet. Simple. Still… Narcissists always know how to find you, when they want to do so. Really, you can only succeed in getting away from them when they are not interested in finding you.

A few years ago I was contacted through a friend by The Samaritans. My mother was trying to find me. Yes, she used The Samaritans, because that’s how Narcissists work. Anything and anyone is a means to an end. They have no conscience. Consciences make you weak. Narcissists do not like to be weak, they will pretend to be weak to lure a victim, but they are just using other people’s weaknesses, such as empathy and caring, against them. Which is very clever. Aren’t they clever, and isn’t everyone else such a weak, caring idiot. I know I am, I was proved this on many an occasion.

My father died recently. You can’t escape from Narcissists and their games even when they die. Fact. In fact, when they die, they often are more powerful than when they were alive. My father knew that, and prepared for it. I knew he would, which is partly why I dreaded the day he would die. My mother knew about my father’s death a whole month before she decided to contact me to inform me of his passing. Why. Because she found that she could not get her hands on his inheritance without me. So, she needed me. To use me to get what she wants. I am keeping her at arms’  length at the moment. It won’t last. I found out about my father’s death, about a month after he had died, from a news article. I thought nothing of it. I tend to detach when something happens. I detached. Then my mother resurfaced. I still remained detached, hoping she would get bored and go away. Shortly after my mother contacted me, my father’s companion contacted me. This thing is not going away any time soon. In fact it is getting more and more complicated by the second. The lovely, quiet, simple life I had finally managed to create for myself is crumbling away into a sticky quagmire of complications. So it goes. Welcome to my world.

Some years ago I came across a book – Going Mad to Stay Sane: The Psychology of Self-destructive Behaviour by Andrew White (which has just been reprinted. The author has a blog too – Narcissism and the Fruit of Suffering). This book… it could be an unofficial autobiography. I don’t know how to thank the author enough. He doesn’t offer an easy solution to a difficult situation, which is awesome in and of itself, what he does is explain every detail of it, and that is very precious to me. Understanding the self, and others, and the dynamics of self, others, and the situation… priceless.

We all have conundrums, Gordian knots, in our lives. It is always easier to play the part of Alexander the Great when it comes to other people’s Gordian Knots, not so easy when dealing with the one which belongs to you. So, before you tell me how to solve my knot, show me how you’ve untangled yours. Then, and only then, will I respect you enough to listen to your solution to mine. Sorry, but life has taught me to be cautious where others are concerned. Especially as I am A Narcissist magnet. I always recognise them. And they always recognise me. I was trained from day one to enable them, feed, them, and completely detach from myself and my needs. I do endeavour to be less delicious to such people, but… the mind is a labyrinth, and life itself, in many ways, is a Gordian knot which even Alexander the Great’s sword couldn’t cut.

Do you know a Narcissist, and do you understand what I’m saying or… is this all the illogical prattle of an unreasonable being?

Advertisements

204 thoughts on “Narcissism is the Game, and You’re It

  1. Thank you! Was feeling sad and I wanted someone to tell me if narcissistic people could make you sad- had seen my psychiatrist today and talked about this issue. Didn’t realise was pitting on a brave face. What I loved was you made me laugh by describing narcissist’s thoughts in their own language. It changed things: the powerful effect of experiencing narcissistic behaviour in the moment can be so negatively absorbing that there is almost a delayed reaction . and thèse after-effects can manifest hours later, hooking you in deeper and making you feel bad because you may not have folllowed up on what they wanted you to do, or you talked to your doctor, or felt irritated, angry which you think you shouldn’t. When I read, ..”very generously put up with by the narcissist,” and other similar things, perspective came and it was so funny and laughing stopped the sadness. Never read any article on Narcissism that has used this approach within the context of a serious issue, and it was not mean, it was liberating. Thank you! I could step back and really feel how they see, and find it ridiculous ( not saying it’s all fixed) like the sense of the ridiculous in movies that are really truth. Best Wishes Michele

    Like

    1. Thank you very much for sharing 🙂

      Since both my parents were narcissists, humour has been a life-saver. Not everyone gets it, you kind of have to have been through the narcissist wars to get it. If you can find the funny in the drama a narcissist creates it’s like a pocket of fresh air in a stifling room.

      Narcissists can indeed make you sad, particularly if they’re in a sad or bad mood themselves (which is frequent, particularly once you’re on intimate terms with them). They can suck all the joy out of a moment if they feel left out of what is making you or others joyful, if it doesn’t match their momentary status, or in an attempt to get that joy for themselves.

      It can be rather difficult to figure out the psychology of a narcissist and of how it affects you because it is often all topsy-turvy and back-to-front, how they are and how you are affected by them does not follow usual and logical paths. They’re erratic yet consistent, unstable yet stable in their instability, etc.

      Learning to take a step back, pause, detach and get a different perspective is helpful when dealing with a narcissist and the impact they’re having on you – but this isn’t always easy to do if a narcissist is in full drama mode. Getting sucked into their drama is easy because it all seems so urgent (they do a lot of screaming which is murder on the ears both outer and inner) and when something seems urgent we get serious, suppress, repress, control… and sadness ensues.

      Narcissists are rather ridiculous in hindsight, much ado about nothing… but oh how they milk that nothing into a major big something and sound all the alarm bells.

      Trust yourself, give yourself the space and time you need,keep doing what you’re doing (and keep reminding yourself that if you need to do it then do it – so if you need to discuss things with your psychologist but your narcissist gets all sensitive about that – do it!), once you find your zone, and keep visiting it, you’ll find that liberation from oppression resides within you.

      Take good care of yourself! Best wishes!

      Like

  2. I had an unfortunate encounter with a narcissistic sociopath a few years back. She
    ended up destroying my husbands family. It got to the point were she got the police involved , she played the victim blah blah blah.
    It was her, we will call her C.C all along. She was gaslighting, spreading vicious rumors about me and my family to destroy my creditably to make herself look like an angel. Turns out when my husband investigated it , well miss goodie goodie was to blame. Of course the damage is done and the family is torn apart, karma will take its place. Her mask has slipped already, people already see her for what she is. The gold digging, fake, gorilla faced, narcissistic sociopath and I’m going to have the last laugh. 😘

    Like

    1. Thank you for sharing 🙂

      I was recently reading about a story which is in the gossip media concerning a person who is claiming to be a victim – whether they are or not is hard to know because once someone claims something (especially a cry of ‘wolf’) it triggers many things for all those who hear it, and the story becomes more complicated because everyone brings their own story into to it, and if a story involves a narcissist this result suits them fine and they keep stirring the bubbling and boiling pot until everyone but them is baked by it. They thrive on drama – the more there is, the better.

      Without knowing the details of your story I can see it because I’ve lived something similar, and so have many others, and we always catch onto it when it is ‘too late’, once we or others have fallen for the story (the cry of wolf) and then fallen out of the story because we realise we’ve been had by a ‘player’ of people (we now know their cry of wolf is a lie but the consequences of having believed it are already in motion). Even if you catch it whilst it is happening it can be so hard to stop the effect it has. The ripples of a pebble thrown into still water travel far. The damage is done because no one expected someone to do what someone did, to lie about something like that, to keep it going and go to the extremes that they did.

      Hopefully the damage isn’t something which can’t be repaired once everyone realises that they’ve been had (and owns up to it rather than tries to deny it – which can add complications to something already complicated. People who have been fooled sometimes will protect the person who fooled them to protect themselves from admitting they were fooled) and who the real culprit is.

      Sometimes we need this kind of experience to strengthen the bonds we have, and to remind us of what we have (due to losing it). Wish we didn’t have to go through this kind of experience to find out who we are and who others are, who to trust, who is truly there for us.

      Enjoy the last laugh when you get it (keep a cautious eye on not laughing too soon, narcissists hate the sound of laughter when it comes from anyone else but them and it can make them even more vicious and vengeful).

      Best wishes!

      Like

  3. Thank you very much for your article. I gained much insight & was mesmerized as you seemed to be telling my story. I too am s magnet but thankfully, I know the red flags so I disconnected after only 3 weeks due to red flags! Phew–thankfully 3 weeks & not 3 years!!!
    The man I loved was apparently an illusion but
    Whatever, I loved for which I am grateful. I try to take a positive outlook so although initially I thought,”why me?”, now, I am the lucky 1 because I am capable of myriad of emotions & I say what I mean & mean what I say.
    I appreciate being me more than ever!!! Learning that my mom is a N empowered my insight & self-reflection into her behaviors & how it impacted my belief system & perception which was low self-esteem & now I love me!!! I pay close attention to my mom’s degrading words, her hateful tone, but she listens (via phone conversations!) but when my compliments stop, suddenly she can’t hear me saying, “What!?” Repeatedly!? I implemented no contact in person-but do call her as my love & the person I am is what made me-me!!! I finally love me.
    Regarding whether the man I loved being the Abuser or victim, your insight that by merely growing up surrounded by negativity & harm, it’s the only type of dynamic he knows!? He remains isolated speaking rhetoric & extremely depressed yet remains indigent & controlled by N mom & ‘flying monkies’ even after 1/2 century!!! It’s Unfathonable!
    I will read the book you suggested & am in pursuit of my PhD in forensic psych so maybe 1 day I may help others in hope that monsters will be eradicated from the planet…or avoidance of the evil from which I thought only in the movies?!
    Thank you again& live happily knowing that your wisdom & strengths helped me & (I’m sure!) many others involved in dynamic of evil.

    Like

    1. Thank you for sharing 🙂

      Best wishes on your journey. Sometimes the bad things that happen to us inspire us to pursue something which leads us to places which are good for us and which we would not have gone to if we hadn’t had the negative to prompt us to seek out the positive.

      The pushing of a painful button may make us step beyond where we were once comfortable. It hurts, and that hurt makes us find something which heals it – that search for healing can lead to some very interesting places.

      I read an article recently about the MBTI – it stated that each type has a place in the whole. I see that as applying beyond the MBTI, such as to narcissists, those with NPD, too. They have their place in the whole.

      Perhaps those we see as monsters need to exist to inspire us not to be that way.

      Humans tend to learn far more and far more deeply from bad experiences. We also tend to be more empathic when we’ve lived through pain. We tend to feel more for those who are going through what we’ve experienced. If we haven’t experienced it… we tend to think it’s something that someone made up.

      Your experience has brought you much pain, but also wisdom.

      We can all be evil when we’re in pain, the difficult part is turning a negative experience into positive inspiration.

      Like

  4. Wow. I just wanted to say thank you so much for sharing your story dealing with narcissism.

    I recently left a job where it seemed to be a narcissist magnet – people that would treat you as a doormat. Especially if you are a girl or woman. They would treat you as though you’re clueless and with no voice, which is not true, regardless of how someone appears. Meanwhile, they’d hurl at me their projections of anger, but with a smile on their face, wondering why i won’t go along with their interactions. And then I’m the bad guy, because I won’t accept their projections, and won’t accept being treated like a doormat. I even called the one person out on it, and said, just because I’m working here it doesn’t mean you get to take advantage of me. I said, I’m willing to speak with you, serve you whatever coffee/tea you want, but that doesn’t make me your friend. and he suddenly realize he wasn’t going to be able to just get away with what he always had done. but even so, he fell right back into what he always does with the people who work there, and i wasn’t going to tolerate it.

    so i weighed my situation out, didn’t make a decision out of an emotional reaction, and eventually came to a clear conclusion.
    I deserve better than the treatment I was receiving (being treated as a doormat, no respect for boundaries) and decided to leave.
    I have often felt responsible for other people and would cave into their pressures and demands, but i have been working on growing out of that, and having my own voice. it has been hard, but i know that i made the right decision, regardless of whatever picture these few narcissists might paint.

    it’s given me the strength to know it’s not my responsibility to change these people, or to have to conform to their pressures/expectations. i’m not their therapists, and i’m not their family members. even if i was, that doesn’t mean i have to accept the mistreatment.

    Like

    1. Thank you for sharing 🙂

      Certain environments can be rife with narcissistic behaviour, and may cause people who aren’t narcissists to behave narcissistically. Once it sets in there is little that can be done about it. Sometimes the best solution to that kind of problem is to do what you did otherwise you get sucked into playing a never-ending games of thrones with everyone wanting to be king, and that is exhausting and ultimately unsatisfying.

      You respected yourself and that’s a very powerful thing to do. You do deserve better, and it is definitely not your responsibility to take care of the ego needs of others. It can be challenging to decide not to cater to others particularly if you’ve been conditioned to do it. It can be so subtle, someone asks you to do a small favour for them and before you know it you’re their caretaker and they’re asking for more and more without ever giving anything rewarding in return.

      The pressure to conform is everywhere, and knowing that you have the strength to say no to others when saying yes is harming you is a personal power at work. Keep trusting and respecting yourself. The only person you’re responsible for is yourself (unless you have children, but that’s a completely different scenario), and how you treat yourself sets the standard for how others feel they can treat you. You’re awesome, keep being you!

      Like

  5. Wow…so simply and wonderfully understood. My mother was a narcissist, my father questionable . I, too, the highly sensitive magnet that truly cares fo mankind have been tortured by these disorders. Keep that in mind, it’s not normal in any way. Study the vibrational pull, the “currency’. of why they attract and your healing will begin. Do not give up on love, stay discerning, pray for strength and teach what you’ve learned. I learned my self worth the hard way. Love is not deceitful. God Bless

    Liked by 1 person

  6. Thank you, this is a very good description.

    One book that I found to be very helpful in moving forward is “Running on Empty” by Jonice Webb. It doesn’t go into details about how a person ended up neglected, it just gives you a really good outline to help you keep moving forward and something to remember when you forget.

    Like

  7. The death of the narcissist father is a happy ending. it is the greatest feeling the child of a narcissist father can feel. happiness and life as it is supposed to be. there is beauty where before there was none. the smiles of strangers, once a sinister and sarcastic smile deserving of reprimand, suddenly become heartfelt meaningful smiles. the air smells better, food tastes better, it is easier to sleep, easier to think, easier to breathe. the world becomes the beautiful world you have always heard of, but never could see. days are happy. nights are happy. life is happy. because that disgusting monster that shadowed your life from every direction has finally fallen and will never return again.
    Narcissists are more powerful when theyr dead? no, they are not. because even when still unfortunately alive, once you realize them, then they have no power. and when they die they are just what they should have been all along. non existent. an empty lifeless blob of crud with no personality no morals and no virtues. the only, and most important difference between a living narcissist and a dead one. one is unfortunately alive. and one is thankfully dead.

    Like

    1. Thank you for sharing 🙂

      I can relate to the feeling of the heavy shadow lifting. I agree with you, the world does indeed become a beautiful place once we’re free of them. Very well expressed.

      I also have one still alive and the death of the other brought the live one out in full narcissistic form. It’s been both extremely stressful and insightful to observe their behaviour. So much grasping, so many antics, all the old patterns repeated, complicating and confusing simple things, twisting the truth until it is unrecognisable to make their delusions real, tantrums and sulks, turning a situation into an epic drama all about them, dragging other people into their vortex, and so on. When I wrote this post things had just started and I viewed the situation from a different angle than I do now. I was afraid of getting sucked back in, of having to relive the horrors of the past once again, and although many of the scenarios were the same old recycled shit, I’m no longer the terrified child afraid of giants, forced into doing things their way or suffer the consequences of thwarting their willful version of reality. It’s been a long time coming.

      Liked by 1 person

  8. I know I m late to the party ,but thanks so much for sharing this! Are you me seriously ?? I can totally relate to any single word you typed right there ! The narcissist fave trick is turning everybody against you and make themselves look like a victim . I’m in the same boat as yours ,except that I feel like I have it way worse ,I d inherit some huge sum of money from her if she dies ,and she uses this to manipulate the hell out of me . seriously this is the worst feeling because you’re not only confused and lost ,It’s also pretty likely to cause you some serious mentally illnesses yourself ! Take care & hope you’re recovering pretty fast .

    Like

    1. Thank you for sharing 🙂

      Sorry for the late reply.

      Our particular narcissist is always worse than those of others because they affect us up close and personal, they know which of our buttons to press to set off a chain reaction of pain for us, and we’ve been trained by them to react in a certain way to give them their pay-off, so it’s a pattern that keeps repeating because they’re creatures of habit. When they need a ‘fix’ they push our buttons and our reaction gives them their ‘fix’. If you can stop the chain reaction which their button-pressing causes, or if you can get yourself to alter your part of the pattern, then you can derail them for awhile, giving you time to explore other ways of dealing with what they do.

      If your narcissist has a financial hold over you, such as promising to leave you their money when they die, then they’ll use it that leverage over you to the max because it gives them the control they so desperately want over others, over you. Anything which they have that you may want plays straight into their hands – they understand this behaviour because they want what others have and therefore it’s in their wheelhouse. If you can let go of the possible inheritance she is promising then you can free yourself from that manipulation. It’s a hard one to do, money is a powerful lure and tool of control, but if you want to be free it’s quite a good way to go.

      This book helped me a lot to understand the dynamic going on – http://andywhiteblog.com/2015/06/23/going-mad-to-stay-sane/ – between my parents and myself, but also within me, the programming and its effects.

      Ultimately it comes down to getting to know yourself, and creating a good relationship with yourself, as how you relate to yourself influences how others relate to you, including narcissists. Becoming more in tune with yourself, aware and mindful, helps to alleviate a large part of the confusion. A lot of the confusion is smoke and mirrors.

      Take good care of yourself!

      Liked by 1 person

  9. One way (of many) you know you’re the unfortunate adult daughter of a NM, is when it takes you a day or two to work up the confidence to make your pathetic (I’ve been told, repeatedly) presence known, anonymously, in the comment section of an article that hits so close to home.

    I am so very grateful to have found your blog, and this amazingly insightful and supportive community of fellow survivors. Words are failing me. Thank you, thank you, and a million more thanks for sharing your life and wisdom with us, and the world.

    You could very well be my little shred of hope that there is light at the end of this long, pitch-dark, three-decade-old tunnel of gut-wrenching pain. I have to believe there is.

    a-wonderful-awe-inspiring-soul would be a more becoming name for you.

    May you all find strength, peace, fulfillment, and the happiness you so, so deserve.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Thank you very much for sharing, it is deeply appreciated 🙂

      I’ve only recently, in last few years, stopped lurking online and started interacting. It is not easy to do, especially for those of us who grew up with narcissist parents. It takes the mustering of a lot of courage, and every step taken to share your presence is terrifying, even when doing it anonymously. Every word feels like you’re exposing a piece of your soul and there is all this fear in doing that.

      I never used to comment on blogs, even when I really wanted to, just the idea of filling in the comment form sent shivers through me, paralysed me with fear. I’d tell myself there wasn’t any point. I was afraid of being rejected, ridiculed, being unheard, dismissed, drawing attention to myself, and all those familiar things which happen when you dare to speak, let your presence be known, around a narcissist.

      I’ve spent most of my life being painfully shy, retreating further and further away from the world. It wasn’t until I hit my 40’s that I broke my silence. Doing that has made a huge difference for me, it’s been the most amazing therapy, better than anything I’ve ever done to sort myself out.

      I wouldn’t be blogging if it hadn’t been for my partner who gave me a supportive push. He gave me a Twitter and Facebook account and told me to try it out, asked me to join in the fun because he wanted me online. I ignored both accounts for a while, but then I gave it a go because I didn’t want to be as rude as I was being about such a great gift.

      Bit by bit I came out of my shell, and what surprised me the most was how lovely people were. There were strangers who welcomed me and seemed to enjoy interacting with me. Okay, there were a few trolls along the way, and I did meet a couple of narcissists (which is what eventually inspired me to write about narcissists and my story), but overall the online community is full of really nice people, and blogging about my life story, about narcissists, figuring things out publicly, has connected me with many people who share similar experiences, who understand what it is like to grow up with narcissists and live with that kind of legacy of pain.

      I used to really dislike ‘hope’ because a certain version of hope can keep you trapped with narcissists – hoping that one day your narcissist parents will show a morsel of real love for you, or that they might acknowledge you exist as a real person and not some slave or extension of them. I didn’t realise there was another kind of hope, the kind you get when you share who you are, and that making your presence known allows you to connect with people who make you feel good about being here, about being you, and that when you tell your story others connect with it because there are others who have a similar story, and together we let each other know that it’s okay and we’ll figure things out together.

      There is definitely hope.

      It is strange really because what I’ve sort of realised is that all those things I was told by narcissists were so awful about me, they’re actually okay. I may be a mess, but being a mess is okay too, part of being human, and it’s liberating to just own it. I’m finally getting to that point where being alive is more enjoyable than painful… I never thought I’d get there or experience that.

      This is a book which helped me a lot – http://andywhiteblog.com/2015/06/23/going-mad-to-stay-sane/ – the author, Andy White, had a father who was a narcissist, and he really hit the nail on the head about my parents and me in his book.

      Also, although I don’t participate in forums, I like to check this one out – https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists – as reading the stories and experiences of other children of narcissists is helpful in figuring out our own story and experience.

      This is a great post about having a Narcissist for a Mother – https://theinvisiblescar.wordpress.com/2013/04/14/surviving-the-narcissistic-parent-acons-adult-children-of-narcissists/

      And this is an interesting and insightful site – http://www.narcissisticmother.com/

      I don’t want to overwhelm you, so I’m shutting up now, but please feel free to make your very lovely presence felt on my blog, you’re welcome here.

      You too deserve to have peace, fulfillment and happiness – the strength part you already have a surplus of that, surviving a narcissist parent, going through three decades of gut-wrenching pain, takes an enormous amount of strength. You’re a powerful force of nature, you’re just so used to being that way and being told that you’re not that you may not realise how amazing you are. You will.

      Take good care of yourself, and be gentle with yourself ❤

      Liked by 1 person

      1. I would like to thank you, Ursula, for responding to me, and for your welcoming support and kind words.

        I don’t like to think of myself as a “lurker” per se (and yes, I know you didn’t mean it in a negative way); rather, I see myself as the silent/invisible observer, seeking enlightenment, understanding, and above all psychological support, wherever and in whichever form I can find it. (This may be TMI, but I’m actually the kind who reads people’s testimonies, identifies, strongly empathizes, and sometimes cries when the upper gray matter goes into overdrive, and then sends everyone big warm mental hugs, because what else can you do from behind a screen). It is such a paradox to find yourself in. On one hand, you never want to learn just how many people have gone and still are going through this. On the other hand, you find comfort in realizing you are not alone, forsaken.

        “I never used to comment on blogs, even when I really wanted to, just the idea of filling in the comment form sent shivers through me, paralysed me with fear. I’d tell myself there wasn’t any point. I was afraid of being rejected, ridiculed, being unheard, dismissed, drawing attention to myself, and all those familiar things which happen when you dare to speak, let your presence be known, around a narcissist”.
        This was spot-on. Fear of rejection is a potent thing, isn’t it? You quickly learn how to keep a low profile and your lips sealed. It’s hard to bruise someone when they don’t give you weapons to use against them. There seems to be a massive disconnect between what I rationally know to be the truth (I’m a decent person worthy of love) and how I feel (If my own mother, of all people, who knows me better than anyone, believes I’m devoid of any value, what is there for a stranger to see in me). I can’t say that having an ongoing civil war between my cerebral hemispheres is of any help, either.

        She managed to break me all right, but she still failed to turn me into a spitting image of her (at least I lucked out in that department). If anything, I would be the poster child for a people-pleasing pushover, extremely sensitive to other people’s emotions and body language. That is not to say that I’m proud to be, or don’t want to substitute that for an occasional healthy dose of NO. But still, for the time being, when push comes to shove, I would rather be the one who sustains the trauma, whose needs go unmet. I reckon it’s difficult to feel guilty when you self-destruct if you’re convinced you don’t deserve better. Better have me do it than them, right?

        I posted my comment yesterday (my very first on such blogs or anywhere else for that matter), knowing I could expect a “thank you for sharing + smiley face” from you (because you’re exceedingly kind and you just can’t help yourself), but I certainly didn’t expect a direct sincere welcome. I let myself be vulnerable, you saw it, and opened your arms wide open for me. Thank you for that. When your emotional growth is stifled, your development arrested, and your self-esteem eroded to near non-existence, even such seemingly small acts of kindness work wonders for your psyche. And by you, I mean me. (Try and rewire my brain into realizing that referring to myself in the first person or saying [I] one too many times is “acceptable”… oh the irony, coming from a narc – a belief upheld by a clueless enabling father).

        I feel like I owe you a full disclosure of my identity, my location and the gory details of my upbringing. The truth is, I have lingering worries that the few English speaking members of my so-called family (English not being our native language) could identify me if they accidentally stumbled across your blog. They could very well become the trolls you made a reference to. Not that I have reason to believe they would care one way or the other, but I still adamantly refuse to risk putting you, or fellow commentators through any potential backlash.

        I don’t know if I’m allowed to post links on this forum, but I am indeed familiar with theinvisiblescar, and that one lengthy extensive post listing the characteristics and mannerisms of a NM in such painful detail was what triggered the ah-ha moment for me not too long ago, and the awakening journey was slowly set in motion right then and there. It goes without saying, I was the one to diagnose my incubator (and I’m nowhere near being a mental health professional), so there’s always the possibility that I could be wrong, but she does fit the profile to a T. All 24 traits. It’s mind-boggling really.

        I feel ashamed of myself for not putting the pieces together and an end to it much sooner (I’m in my early 30s), I’m ashamed it happened, and I’m ashamed I allowed it happen. (I was supposed to know better, so I feel like I let myself down). I’m even ashamed to tell my story – which makes me wonder how the heck I’m supposed to tackle potential therapy sessions. I’m still shell-shocked, disoriented, and haven’t had the opportunity to balance myself (I still have to maintain contact, so good luck with that). I have an end goal, that is to recover. I still have to lay out the plan (and stick to it!).

        My little self-orchestrated pity party on your blog was a cry for acknowledgment and/or validation, truth be told. I have a wonderful partner who sticks with me through thick and thin, but like most males, as soon as he detects a sign of distress, his brain goes into fix-it mode, which can be a blessing and a curse. My closest childhood friend (female) is always available as well, but she has a saint for a mother, and even though she believes me, I know she’ll never truly understand. This is one of those things you can’t fully comprehend except through direct personal exposure/experience. And that’s OK.

        It genuinely pains my heart to witness what I have been reduced to. How does anyone, in just one decade or so, go from being a self-contained 16 year old astronomy buff capable of wrapping her teenage brain around complex concepts of hypothetical physics, to this, a whining shell of a human being. I seem to have lost my big picture thinking, and myself somewhere along the way. I allowed them to get stolen from me. I will fight for what rightfully belongs to me. At some point in the future, I will be creating my own bubbles to send out into the cosmos, Ursula, you’ll see, this I promise you.

        Did I just type all that? What an attention hog I am! I’m sorry if I’m being an inconvenience. It felt incredible to be able to reach out and open up, and I’m grateful you created a safe haven for us where we’re always welcome to do so, where we can be a “mess” together, support each other, learn, grow, and ultimately heal.

        Liked by 1 person

        1. Thank you very much 🙂

          Please feel free to use my blog to express yourself, that’s what I use it for and anyone else is welcome to do so too.

          Yes, you can post links, people often do and it is helpful to me and to others. Quite a few people come to my blog to read the comments in the way you have read the testimonies of others.

          Please don’t share your identity or details which identify you unless you are comfortable doing so, as this is a public blog and this is the internet so it’s best to maintain a certain anonymity. A few people have shared things on here which they have regretted sharing and have asked me to delete those things, and I really don’t like deleting comments, but will do so if asked.

          Please be considerate towards yourself.

          You can share as much of your story and yourself as you would like. You don’t owe me anything, do it for yourself and only for yourself. Share what feels comfortable, and do so at your own pace.

          One of the things many children of narcissists have said, and something with which I can strongly relate, is how long it takes us to put all the pieces together, to figure out that a parent is a narcissist, and then to work from there with the information, which can be overwhelming to process. The mind may get it, but the rest of our system may take longer to understand what the mind gets.

          There are many reasons why it takes us so long to understand that our parent is a narcissist.

          Firstly the information and resources available now were not so readily accessible a few years ago. When I first started looking for information on NPD there were only a couple of blogs writing about it from a personal angle, and psychologists were not really that interested in it so they tended to just repeat what had been written in the few books which had been published about it at that time or they just reiterated the DSM profile for the disorder. Awareness about Narcissistic Personality Disorder has been increasing at an incredible rate in recent years, it is now a trending hot topic, and it is being written about from many diverse perspectives, with more focus on the effect that those with NPD have on others. Years ago the information was mostly about those who had the disorder which was interesting but not particularly useful for victims of narcissists trying to understand how they have been affected, and what to do about it.

          Information about being a child of a narcissist, and the issue of narcissistic abuse has only recently been gaining more ground. There are more and more adult children of narcissists sharing their stories and experiences than ever before, which is so much more informative, and more helpful in aiding us to figure things out.

          We find the pieces of our own story in the story of others. So now that more people are sharing their personal stories, our personal stories are coming together more readily. But it still takes time to process and digest and then figure out how to work with your own personal situation.

          Not everyone can go NC from their narcissist parents, even if they want to. And going No Contact can be very difficult. It was fairly easy for me to go NC because I didn’t live in the same community as my parents, and the decision was made due to wanting to protect my partner and my relationship with him from my parents, particularly my mother, so I had a big incentive. I don’t think I would have done it if it had just been for me. The physical distance helped, and I moved shortly after I did it, so my mother couldn’t hound me. But if you have to live in the same community as your Narcissist parent, then it is probably simpler to maintain contact and work behind the scenes to distance yourself psychologically, emotionally, and soulfully. Even if you go NC, you have to work to distance yourself from within, and the NC in some ways can delay that work. I just went into a bit of a stupor once I went NC and didn’t sort myself out until much later, many years later.

          If you grow up with a parent who is a narcissist, then that parent becomes ‘normal’ to you as a child. Even if you sense something isn’t right, it is hard to know what it is that isn’t right. We can’t change the parent we have, and when we’re very young we may not realise that not everyone has a parent like ours, and that our parent is not normal.

          When we get older and begin to see that the parents of others aren’t like ours, there is still not much we can do about it. We’re stuck with our parent, and we’ve become used to them, we’ve learned to deal with them, put up with them – we have a survival system in place. Part of that survival system when your parent is a narcissist is to blank information out, forget the extent to which you are suffering abuse, and forgive them because they’re always blaming you and you get used to accepting the blame for everything. We make excuses for them and pretend that everything is normal, that this is the way it is and we have to accept it.

          When we reach adulthood, we’ve got other issues to consider, growing up is a confusing time even without a narcissist parent, we emerge into society and sometimes find the same issues we had at home in the rest of the world, and we may not have time to focus on putting the pieces together. We just keep our heads down and keep going forwards. It can take a long time for us to reach a point where we just can’t keep going, the weight of what we’ve been carrying becomes too much. Something stops us in our tracks, our system crashes, and that’s when we begin to look at our story, and not just our story but those who played a role in it.

          Many children of narcissists don’t put the pieces together until they reach middle age, so you’re ahead of many of us. And it really doesn’t matter when we finally begin to see the full picture, what really matters is that we see it because that is when we can begin to release ourselves. It takes time to do that, it has to be done patiently and gently. There is a lot to go through and understand. Children of narcissists are always hard on themselves, we’ve been trained to be that way, to heal ourselves we need to retrain ourselves, change the way we treat ourselves.

          Getting in touch with your 16 year old astronomy buff is a wonderful way to work with yourself. It helps to connect with those moments when you were you, being yourself, passionate about something which was yours. It’s how to connect with the you that you are without your parents. You haven’t lost yourself, you hid yourself within yourself to protect what was precious, what you didn’t want to be destroyed – now you can find what is hidden and gradually bring it out into the open to help you, support you in what you are now doing, inspire you with all that you love about yourself. Let yourself be your guide.

          The greatest validation, acknowledgement and kindness comes from you to yourself – it is really hard to do because you’ve been taught by your narcissist parent to give all of that away to them, to starve yourself to feed them and their deep hungry pit of need, they showed you how to be hard on yourself, think the worst of yourself. It takes a while to rewire your system. I’m still rewiring mine, but it’s slowly become rather fun and less painful. I was causing myself a lot of pain by trying to force myself to know something before I was ready to know it, or let go of something before I was ready to let go of it. Bring your natural compassion to yourself.

          If you were someone else who came to you for help, how would you help them?

          Children of narcissists are often very intellectually capable, because we move into our minds at an early age, however, our emotions need to understand what we know intellectually, and that takes longer to do as we’ve often cut ourselves off from our emotions. Our emotions are there, and they’re very powerful, so they’re quite scary. But really all they want is for us to hear them, feel them, understand them, and allow them to fill us, be a part of us.

          Take it gently, there’s no rush… there really isn’t a rush, even if time feels like it is ticking very loudly.

          I still find it hard to accept compliments, I was discussing that with another child of narcissists, about how hard it is to believe a compliment, to believe anything good about yourself, to allow it to be real, to accept it without feeling guilty, ashamed or any of those other things which become your regular food when your parent is a narcissist. I used to feel intense anxiety and panic when people said nice things to me about myself, this was mostly because if my parents said anything nice to me I knew something awful was about to happen, and if someone else said something nice to me in front of my parents, something awful would happen. It takes a while to work through the PTSD, and that needs to be done with compassion.

          It does help to have a supportive and loving partner, and friends who genuinely care, they can make a big difference more than anything by letting us know that we are loved and accepted, even if it is really hard for us to feel that way. However, there is just so much they can do for us. The main task is up to us, because only we truly know what we’ve been through and are experiencing, and only we can reach those places within us which we’ve closed off.

          Keep doing what you are doing, figuring things out at your own pace, and slowly emerging from yourself.

          Liked by 1 person

      2. I really loved reading this article. I don’t speak to my parents who are both narcissists as well. My NF is evil and my mother is the world’s only living heart donor…such a cold bitch. I’ve felt alone for most of my life but reading your words really made me feel like someone knows what it’s like to be treated like shit constantly by such a total fraud. I haven’t spoken to my NF in years and now his sorry ass is telling everyone he is dying and can’t understand why I won’t let him around me or my family. Bless my husband for being so normal that it made my NF’s shit light up like luminal. I finally saw what an evil, mean, womanizing bastard he is. Thank you for your article. Finding someone who has been through, and understands, narcissism and the hell they reap on their children is not very common for me. Thank the lord we survived and got out…those still in denial are in for a long recovery after they find the source of their heartache is the people entrusted by them the most. ❤

        Like

        1. Thank you very much for sharing 🙂

          Fortunately or unfortunately, depending on how you look at it, there are many children of narcissists, who are coming out of the closet in which they were shoved into by their Nparents and a society who supported them and their ways, and speaking out about their experiences. It’s our time now to open up, break our silence, and create an environment which understands what we’ve been through and no longer denies it. We were made to feel ashamed, shamed into silence and into abetting a cover-up, as Narcissistic abuse tends to be something which others don’t notice, or don’t consider to be abuse, however, there are changes occurring in that respect. Psychological and emotional abuse is now being acknowledge as being just as damaging as the more visible forms of abuse.

          This is a forum for children of narcissists – https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists – even if you don’t want to become a member, it’s worth perusing as there are many stories and supportive resources shared.

          There is also this great blog post – https://theinvisiblescar.wordpress.com/2013/04/14/surviving-the-narcissistic-parent-acons-adult-children-of-narcissists/

          And more psychological articles written about being the child of a narcissist – https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/insight-is-2020/201405/narcissistic-parents-psychological-effect-their-children

          This is a book which helped me a lot – http://andywhiteblog.com/2015/06/23/going-mad-to-stay-sane/ – the author’s father was a narcissist.

          And recently a University created a survey to help people identify whether their parent was a narcissist or not. Awareness is on the rise, but it will take time, just as it took us time to figure things out.

          Once we open our eyes to the fact that our parents are narcissists, which can be a hard reality to face due to years of brainwashing and the extent of the betrayal from those we were supposed to trust, then it does indeed shine a bright and clarifying light on what has been done and is going on. It can be overwhelming to accept, but very worth it.

          You are not alone.

          Take good care of yourself ❤

          Liked by 1 person

          1. I’m so sorry I have not replied before hand but I had no idea you would respond until just now looking at my phone LOL. Actually just got the nerve to turn in one of my own writings about my Xanax addiction that lasted nearly 10 years and how it’s affected me and how my narcissistic parents had so much to do with that…they actually decided to publish it in sober nation.com and I’ve been spending more and more time writing about what I’ve been through. Writing about what I’ve been through has been so helpful in letting me release some of the anger I’ve carried towards my parents for so long. It’s articles and blogs like yours that really inspired me to be able to put my truth out there without fear. Thank you so much also for putting the resources to look through because they’ve been extremely helpful. I really love the way you write and I really love how honest you are about your experiences and it really helps me to be honest about mine and not be ashamed of myself like I’ve been so many times in the past.it’s so weird to be able to put your ideas out there and have someone actually be like, “Oh, what a good idea!” instead of being trying to shame you into shutting your mouth like dear mom and dad LOL. I’m sure you know how that feels. Thank you for writing me back once again I would’ve wrote back sooner I just didn’t even have even looked at my email, I have about four so I just saw it just now, but thank you so much for the resources and for writing back to me, I really appreciate it. You’re helping so many with your writing. Hopefully I can do the same with people who turn to drugs because of the shame and guilt they’ve endured. I’ve definitely had loads of experience with that. LOL I started a blog on here about addiction after being in recovery for a bit over three years now. I would love, if you have time, to give me some feedback. If not, I tot understand but I want you to know how much it helped me really identify what I believe is the reason many addicts who happen to, like us, have narcissistic parents are resistant to conventional treatment programs. I was only able to obtain sobriety after I recognized the importance of finding out who I really am because for so long, I was basing my identity on shame. Until I freed my inner child from a shame based and guilty existence, I couldn’t heal. My friend Tina wrote the “It’s My Turn” book and encouraged me to write about sobriety and has been very supportive of my writing. We both have really enjoyed reading your blog. I am very impressed with your writing style, mine is very straight forward as well. Your writing is clear and I never skip ahead because every sentence is important and relevant. I bouat died when you spoke of entering the witness protection program from narcissistic parents LOL! I Need to do that myself bc when I replaced my phone and forgot to block his number for 36 hrs, my NF sent me a picture of himself wearing a Darth Vader mask with the caption, “I am your father!” I mean for crying out loud LOL! Please keep writing because it’s a gift for those of us who have suffered the same and share the same silent pain XOXO ❤️ I’ll send the link below.

            Like

  10. Boy can I relate to your post. Oh boy. 2 narcissistic parents (father now deceased), an N brother, and an Aspberger’s brother. All in total denial.

    After decades of this, I couldn’t stand it any more, and severed ties with all of them. Best thing I ever did. Should have done
    it years ago.

    And yes, they keep trying to intrude on my life. I don’t read the letters, block the emails, do not return the phone calls, ignore the flying monkeys.
    And I ignore the well meaning friends who tell me I should get in touch with my mom.

    And I have FINALLY restored peace to my life!

    You have to be absolutely resolute to avoid them no matter what! Trust me, it’s so worth it.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Thank you for sharing 🙂

      Being resolute is definitely an important part of breaking the mold and ties which bind, sometimes it takes a while to be resolute. Sometimes it takes small steps, bit by bit, and a lot of gentleness towards the emerging self.

      Liked by 1 person

  11. I understand perfectly well what you’re saying. My narc the one that almost made me go mad(although I’m quite sure I’ve been a narc magnet all my life as well and just didn’t realise it). This one. The one that got me to love him without laying a finger on me. He was quite irresistible. He knew it and so he had to move fast. The date which was supposed to be the 2nd he called and asked if I would mind going to a hotel. When I asked “what???” He said you heard me. Quite confidently. I was baffled but I had to refuse. No I told him. “I can’t I don’t know you that well.” My narc decided to teach me a lesson with the silent treatment. My god was it ugly. I started to doubt myself. Why didn’t I just give him some? And then what is wrong with me? Why should I be questioning my own dignity? He mind fucked me and the fuck was so good I kept texting him. Telling him I’m sorry. I loved him and all the self revolting things that went against my very being. I assured and re assured him that we could work things out and I knew he was probably laughing and enjoying the punishment he was putting on me. I knew he was. Eventually after about 3 months he fed me a scrap. He said we could be friends. I still laugh at my self at how relieved I felt that this mofo offered me his friendship just to keep me there incase he needed me. I would jovially text him everyday admonishing praise on him. Oh god… I’m laughing now. How he must have put on his golden paper crown and danced naked in delight. I made him feel so good about himself and in return I got nothing. Not a text. Not a call. Nothing. The more I made him feel good is the more he made me feel rotten. And I kept at it. Determined that he would respond. Then I found this blog and others. He doesn’t even know he has a problem. I won’t tell him. At the risk of me being the problem? I don’t think so.My only solution is the no contact solution. And I started it but I know deep down inside he’s gonna come at me. I know Cuz I gave him good honest positive compliments. He needs that. He needs to feel needed. He’s gonna come. And I don’t know if I can block him out.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Thank you for sharing 🙂

      We always get something even when it seems like we got nothing.

      The silent treatment teaches us a lot about ourselves, about the dialogue going on inside of us, especially with regards to our relationships with other people.

      As a child of narcissists, I both hated the silent treatment and longed for it. I hated the emotional blackmail, but loved the fact that it was the time when the narcissists in my life shut the hell up and I could actually hear my own thoughts and feelings – but only if I listened to them and not to the blackmail of the silence.

      There are a lot of very good articles, posts, blogs and so on about dealing with a relationship with a narcissist. On the romantic relationship with a narcissist side of things, this is an excellent blog – http://letmereach.com/ – it’s also worth exploring Psychology Today’s articles. Lots of professional weighing in on things, like this – https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evolution-the-self/201404/the-vampire-s-bite-victims-narcissists-speak-out

      No Contact is a good idea if you feel it will solve the issue or issues for you (going NC with my parents helped me in many ways, and forced me to face my own part in things), but it is important to bear in mind that the narcissist does not recognise No Contact. And that your No Contact with them may actually attract them even more to you – they hate being rejected in any way, shape or form, and sometimes go out of their way to break your No Contact (as it affects them in the same way that their silent treatment affects you) – once they break your NC, they’re up to their old tricks – all of which are listed and detailed on this site – http://outofthefog.net/Disorders/NPD.html

      Remember that you’re human – this is a complex and complicated experience. There really are nor ‘rights’ or ‘wrongs’, life isn’t as black and/or white as that when we live it.

      Be kind to yourself, and take care of yourself!

      Like

      1. Thank you. *sigh*. Is there anyway you win? It seems like a loose loose situation. Is either he gets in or he gets in. He knows my weakness is loving fragile human beings. I can’t pass a homeless person on the street without buying them something to eat or drink or giving them some money however small it may be. I shared all of this with him. So if he comes with some sad story he knows I’m gonna give into him. Somehow I know its the route he’s going to take. I will keep you updated. The same way he knows me I know his ego.

        Like

        1. The question you’ve asked about – Is there any way to win? – is a difficult one to answer for many reasons. Ultimately it requires us to answer it for ourselves, often without anyone else to support us or validate our answer, because it’s very personal and individual.

          What is a ‘win’ and what is a ‘loss’? The two things can switch roles, so it can be rather ambiguous, relying only on opinion for it to be one or the other.

          I can give you an idea of what I did in a similar scenario, but I was pushed to my limits as the narcissists in my life were my parents. That does make a difference. As you kind of get to that point of psychological – kill or be killed, or more to the point, kill yourself or do what you have to do to live. Being sensitive towards others becomes something which works against you, while learning to be insensitive can be a positive force. It’s a tricky area to investigate and deal with.

          I’ve had friendships with people who I think could be narcissists, mostly because they reminded me of my parents, but I’ve never been romantically involved with one. That’s only probably because I figured that I’d have to sort myself out before I went down that path.

          When you do what you do and feel what you feel… know yourself, know why you’re doing what you do and feel what you’re feeling, especially when it is about others. What do these others represent for you, for your identity. Most people help homeless people not because of the story the homeless person has, but because of their own story. We help others to help ourselves even when we think we do it only for others – that’s part of our story. Know your story.

          That can be a difficult thing to face – but it is also how we release ourselves from things which bind us to others, especially to narcissists.

          It’s a tough experience, but we get to know ourselves better by dealing with it. The better we know ourselves, the more we understand others, including narcissists.

          Take care, best wishes!

          Liked by 1 person

              1. I am interested on your views of forgiveness. I realised I am so so angry with the ex and I dont know how to forgive to move on.

                Like

                1. This is a tough one to answer because it is personal to the individual. We each have a different interpretation of concepts like forgiveness and moving on.

                  Where a relationship with a narcissist is concerned, anger is a valuable emotion in the healing process, because recovering from a relationship with a narcissist is similar to the 5 stages of grief. Your anger is your ally in certain respects, but it can also bind you to the narcissist, because anger is a driving force in their life, a part of their wound, and they often perceive our anger towards them as being love/passion. They sometimes prefer us when we’re angry, and deliberately provoke us to be angry with them, which can confuse us about our anger.

                  I wrote a post a while back about my view on the whole ‘forgive and forget’ concept. I was a bit pissed off at the time due to personal stuff, but it isn’t as much of a rant as I remember it being when I wrote it. I’ve only just reread it.

                  It’s here if you’re interested, it’s a bit long – https://anupturnedsoul.wordpress.com/2013/12/21/forgive-and-forget-and-fuck-yourself-over-and-over-again/

                  Anger can free us as much as it can bind us – it very much depends on the anger and what is causing it. We need to understand our anger, learn from it, acknowledge it, validate it, get to know what it is really telling us, before we can move on from it. Try to move on before your anger has been heard and understood by you (the narcissist will never get it or acknowledge anything ever), suppress it and it will go underground and cause problems. Might as well deal with it while it is out in the open and raw. Let your anger tell you its story – it’s often not anger at all but something else. It’s often our primal instinct to protect ourselves which wants us to do just that – take care of ourselves and stop denying our issues.

                  There’s some great articles about the positive sides of anger. I did have a couple bookmarked, but my bookmarks are a mess. This one is rather interesting, although it’s a bit intellectual – http://appliedjung.com/jungian-themes/animus-possession

                  Do a search online for ‘positive uses of anger’, or something along those lines. Don’t get rid of your anger until you’re ready to do it. Real forgiveness comes naturally as a part of resolving our issues. Real moving on happens without us needing to make it happen. We just do it because we’ve learned what we needed to learn, and are ready to venture forward.

                  Trust your natural process!

                  Like

                  1. Thank you. The music for charmed the tv series about the three witches popped into my head. I will have a book in my head and when I run into a narc I can vanquish them:) but you are so so right and i seem to be following the right path with the right people turning up in my life to guide me.God what happened to me – like a drug addict waiting for my next fix. A little bit of attention to show me he cared. You are so kind an so very helpful x

                    Like

                    1. Charmed was a fun TV series! With some very interesting ideas that can definitely be applied to RL.

                      I think that Kim at – http://letmereach.com/ – has written about the addiction factor of and to narcissists. Basically they tell you what you want to hear, promise to be your ideal, give you everything your heart desires… and that’s very hard to resist. Takes a while to sort through it all.

                      Keep doing what you are doing, and trust yourself! 🙂

                      Like

  12. Many, many thanks for this story and replies. Only a victim of narcissism and a clinical expert of narcissism know how it is like to be around those people. Nobody else even most psychologist know anything about narcissism. My mom is a covert narcissist (aka closet narcissist according to james masterson). I have been diagnosed with schizoid personality disorder, the disorder that gets created by a master slave relationship, as you have with narcissists. Fortunately I’m on recovery know. But before this I was fused with my mom. I’ve been mentally tortured and abused, never grew up (infantilization) and became permanent psychotic. I’ve lived in a state of horror for +/- 35 years. There is simply nothing on this planet to be found that you can to scare me with anymore. Take care everyone.

    Like

    1. Thank you 🙂

      I was reading an article the other day which was discussing the personality disorders listed in the DSM-IV – http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/hide-and-seek/201205/the-10-personality-disorders – and I was interested by what was said with regards to schizoid personality disorder (as if I was to ever allow anyone to diagnose me they would probably consider me to be a part of Cluster A, most probably schizoid – it’s the disorder to which I relate the most). I liked this bit in particular – “…people with schizoid personality disorder are generally able to function well despite their reluctance to form close relationships, and are not unduly concerned by the fact that they may be seen to have a mental disorder.”

      What someone else may consider to be a personality disorder in someone like me, I would consider to be a personality which ordered itself to deal with the personalities of others – particularly the personalities of my parents. Like your mother, my mother is a covert narcissist. She was extremely invasive on a constant basis, and repeatedly tried to control every aspect of my life and me – which also showed in her reasons for having a child in the first place. My existence was due to her trying to control life and other people. To protect my self and not lose my self to the self she wanted me to have, I retreated internally far into myself. Every time I tried to come out of my protective shell, my experiences confirmed to me that it was better to remain within. I may be crazy on the inside, which is debatable as such a judgment requires comparison – and what is the reference point for that comparison? Other people? And which part of other people, the outside veneer designed for an audience or what’s going on underneath the outside veneer? Chip away the seemingly sane and ordered personality which lies on the surface and most humans are disordered – perhaps disorders are not disorders at all but life ordering itself to deal with the circumstances and experiences of being alive.

      If you experience intense levels of fear over long periods of time, on a constant basis, you will adapt to deal with it in an orderly manner which may appear disorderly to someone else, someone who has not experienced the life and circumstances which you have. Your fearlessness is a natural result of living in a constant state of terror – you adapted. You decided not to be a slave to that master known as fear. It’s a logical flow. Our primal instinct inspires us to do what we must to survive and thrive in a chaotic place.

      Thank you for sharing. Take care of yourself!

      Like

      1. Thanks for your reply. It’s interesting to see how you have adapted to your mother. You seem to have been able to protect yourself by hiding inside. In my case I wasn’t aware that my mom was a narcissist for a long time since I surrendered at an early age and stayed in her narcissistic bubble/world. I never grew up, never developed, and got lots of psychological disturbances. Like narcissism is simplified in dsm so is schizoid. Basically schizoid is a narcissistic extension of a narcissist. A slave to a master, who doesn’t know what to say or do without the master telling him. Schizoid is caracterized by objectification and appropriation. Only since a few years I consider myself a human being. Before that I was nothing more than a cloud of thoughts flying over the earth. No body, no task, no ground, no rights, no voice, almost non existent. But I portrayed a false self to the world, which made it look like nothing was wrong with me. Schizoid shares all the so called ‘negative symptoms’ of schizophrenia, but lacks the ‘positive symptoms’ like delusions.

        Like

        1. Psychologists and other studiers of the human mind spend a great deal of time debating the whole nature versus nurture puzzle, it is always intriguing to read their views on which has more of an influence over us, but I don’t think we’ll figure it out any time soon. It’s a chicken versus egg scenario.

          I sometimes wonder who I would have been had I been brought up in a different environment, with different parents and experiences. I did spend quite a bit of time alone as a child, my parents often forgot about me. Narcissists do that, which is a respite from when their attention is focused on you. Since I was an only child, when I was on my own, I was completely alone – I think that’s how I was able to develop a sense of self separate from others. I also think I helped myself by talking to myself, often talking to myself in the mirror as though the reflection was a friend. Some people would consider that a sign of madness, for me it was something which kept me sane.

          I have experienced something similar to what you described here – “I was nothing more than a cloud of thoughts flying over the earth. No body, no task, no ground, no rights, no voice, almost non existent.” – I experienced myself as invisible, as perhaps nothing more than the figment of someone else’s imagination. It took me a long time to connect with my body as being mine. I didn’t bother too much with projecting a false self, I did it occasionally, but mostly I figured no one could see me and when they did they projected their own idea of me onto me and didn’t want my input. As a child I began referring to this as a ‘me but not me’. I wasn’t really sure if who I thought I was was me either. This led me to explore various subjects pertaining to existence, which often made things even more confusing as I didn’t know if anyone knew anything or if we were all one big hallucination hallucinating ourselves. I still wonder about that.

          Sometimes we just have to go with the flow of our lives and see where it leads. It took me a long time to feel human too. Once I did though, it allowed me to get a better perspective not just of myself but of others. We often judge ourselves harshly when comparing ourselves to others… but are others really how we perceive them to be or is everyone adopting a facade, a false self to hide the same sort of things which we may hide from them?

          Like

          1. again interesting to read. My mom couldn’t leave me alone, I was the golden boy, she fueled and feeded of me. Her eyes were pierced on me and absorbed everything of me into her narcissistic bubble. I remember that I started to change when I was a lot alone in my room. Unfortunately I think I have been exposed way to much to her. It’s also interesting how you described being nothing more than something in anyones imagination. I used to call it I’m nothing more than a silhouet. In the book divided self from RD Laing, he describes a schizoid that describes himself as, ‘I was merely a symbol in my mothers reality’. About the upbringing and nurture nature, I’m bet I was in a way better state if my mom wasn’t a narcissist. greetz.

            Like

            1. That’s probably true, that both of us would be better off if our mothers had not had NPD… however what is a better state?

              Frankly if my mother didn’t have NPD, if my father didn’t have it either, all it would have meant is that I might have ‘fit’ into society better and not stuck out or felt like I stuck out (which is the same thing at the end of the day) like such a sore pulsating, pustulent and crazy thumb. However the world of humans is a bit of an all over narc, so… maybe going through early training with a narc prepared us better by leaving us unprepared and vulnerable. Still trying to figure this formula out. Still collecting data. Still weighing out an unbalanced set of scales.

              Is it better to be as crazy as everyone else so we all think we’re sane, or is it better to know you’re crazy in a world which thinks it is sane but isn’t? I suppose much of it depends upon perspective and projection… projecting what your life would have been like if you shared the delusional state which is considered normal and not delusional. The what ifs of life are far more damaging in some ways than the what is of life. What is may be awful but the what ifs make us believe that there is such a thing as not awful, and our pursuit of that makes us think what is is worse than it is.

              I love the writings of R.D. Laing – he was totally out there! Have you read about his own family? While he was examining the family of others and the effects of family on people (my fav book is his work with A. Esterson on Sanity, Madness and the Family), and how to figure things out from there… he kind of messed up his own family, perhaps because he was messed up by his family.

              Maybe we’re supposed to experience what we experience as is, learn from it and pass it on, perhaps not exactly like Philip Larkin points out – http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poem/178055 – or maybe exactly like that. This thing called life is a bit like a giant petri dish… life exploring and discovering itself.

              Take care of yourself, and see what happens 🙂

              Like

  13. I wish I could put signs up all over the world listing the characteristics of a narcissist, as a warning to everyone not to get involved with them. I have read the phrase, “death by a thousand cuts”, and it certainly fits, all those flaming little arrows that pierce right into the heart, and leave once speechless from their cruelty, as they enjoy the tormenting game of cat and mouse. I do believe that people die early if they insist on living their life with a narcissist. I wish there was something that could be done to fix them, but from what I have researched, there doesn’t seem to be a lot of success, due to their feelings of perfection and superiority. They are just unbelievable! Perhaps that is why some don’t believe, unless, and until, they encounter not the person with narcissistic traits or tendencies, not simply the self-absorbed, but the real thing — the malevolent and malignant, vile hatred of a true full blown narcissist!

    Like

    1. Ah… the warning which no one will listen to read or heed, until it is too late! Because we’re all a bit NIMBY where such things which don’t affect us until they do affect us are concerned.

      Perhaps we need to focus our attention on what can be ‘fixed’ with us rather than what is ‘wrong’ with them that we think needs to be ‘fixed’ with them for everything to be ‘right’ with them for us.

      I grew up with narcissists because I was their child… I wasn’t insistent on living my life with them but they did seem insistent on living their life with me – dying early did seem to be a way out of this situation, however… I’m still around, and so are… oh, wait, one died, but the other one has capitalised on the other one dying… just as I expected but hoped would not happen.

      Their feelings of perfection and superiority… come from somewhere where such things don’t exist but are deeply, obsessively and intensely desired. Figure them out, understand the motives behind the facade… and you’ll wish you hadn’t looked. So, perhaps it is better to believe that they are as they seem and would like to seem to be.

      They’re very human, like all of us, and in some ways they accept that more than we do and reject it more than we do… they are us only distorted in a way which we don’t want to face…which is partly why we find them so monstrous.

      Some truths are best denied with a vengeance.

      Thank you for sharing 🙂

      Like

      1. The Narc parents i suffered thru for too many years of my young life. Is serving me today, as i can now see thru just about any or all baloney being dished up. I am now watching my 82 year old Narc dad act out in ways that look quite infantile. After years of counseling and recovery from the abuse. The boogey man no longer is able to suck my soul, lie undetected, or harm my heart like when i was young and unknowing of these broken individuals. I am loathed by their sheer and utter repugnance, lack of conscience and the dark soul they possess masked in deception, lies and misdirection of a crippled entity whose only pleasure is inflicting nothing short of psychological terror upon the innocent.

        Like

        1. Hello, I am a catholic but i dont go to church. It struck me the other day that these people were put on this earth by the devil to suck
          our souls.I had counselling and it saved my mental health. I am amazed to what lengths they will go to destroy people but the sad
          thing for them is they never ever get better and if your smart enough and want to get them back you can. I could not be bothered
          in the end I wished my ex all the best and walked away.

          Like

          1. Thank you for sharing 🙂

            There are many ways to view the same thing, and people, a variety of perspectives, ultimately I think that it’s up to us to find the view which does the least harm to ourselves and others and offers the most benefit. Such as realising that it is best to walk away and take good care of yourself.

            Best wishes.

            Like

        2. Thank you for sharing 🙂

          However long it takes us, children of narcissists eventually figure their life story out, and suss out what makes their narcissist parents tick (and keep ticking). Their ticking for much of our lives sounds like a terrifying bomb… which we’re always afraid will go off… but one day we realise it’s just a really loud clock which is in the place where their heart should be, and we realise it is the sound of a telltale heart.

          Keep taking good care of yourself and freeing yourself from the ties which once bound you to fears which were not yours but were given to you by frightened people reacting to their fear by terrorising others, particularly their children.

          Best wishes!

          Like

    2. Both my parents were narcissists too. The actively tried to destroy me. I resent having my insides sucked out to fill their black holes that left me with a gaping wound filled by other bloodsuckers .
      But then, life is a journey. Because I ran away from these parasites at a very early age,I’ve had an interesting life. I learned this. There is absolutely no such thing as a Father God who rights wrongs. Narcissists thrive because the adhere to the principles of survival
      That what kept me alive is my authentic self and the spirit within. .
      There is no such thing as right/wrong. That you don’t go into a gun fight with a paddle; and that you need both the dark side and the light (yin/yang ). Make no excuses or explanation for life.
      And that, because I continue to progress I have power.
      I have deeper insight than 99% and because I’ve been through more than my share.
      And best of all, I’m damaged but I’m not a sadist/narcissist.
      Instead I’ve developed empathy .
      Life just is. Try hard to find gratitude for whatever has kept you alive. That’s what keeps you going. Don’t give up and don’t throw your energy away to a non existent Christian god. Keep it. You’re gonna need it.
      No god needs worship. Egoist do.
      Do not put any human being before your own spirituality. NO ONE.
      “In the heart of man lies no good thing”. Pretty sure that’ true.

      Like

      1. Thank you for sharing 🙂

        I can relate to your life philosophy. I think many children of narcissists can relate to what you’ve expressed, because we had to raise ourselves (while battling the sort of ‘nurture’ which is anything but) and doing that means taking a divergent path from the way children are expected to go as a ‘norm’ (but can only go that way if the parents meet the ‘norm’ criteria which narcissists don’t and refuse to do on narcissistic principle), thus it creates children who grow into adults who are independent outsiders – and often are very rebellious where conforming to society and society’s ‘norm’ is concerned. When you grow up with narcissists… it makes you painfully aware of the inherent narcissism in things which may not appear to be narcissistic to those who have not grown up in a narcissistic environment which is openly narcissistic.

        You make some very interesting points, ones which I think many adult children of narcissists have to face and factor in. I luckily did not have the ‘god’ factor to deal with as well as I didn’t grow up in a religious environment, family-wise or socially. I do think it adds complications to figuring out your own story.

        This in particular stood out – ‘Make no excuses or explanation for life.’ – because it is a problem which is a constant when your early environment is governed by narcissists – you pretty much spend your early years having to apologise and make excuses for being alive and existing as though you were the one who imposed your life on your narcissist parents rather than the other way around. This is an issue which seems to haunt most children of narcissists in their future life as an adult, and in their relationships with others, with society and the world in general. It is a painful thorn which can either destroy the person who carries it in their side or be the creative impulse to flip things around and view things from a different perspective.

        Kudos on keeping going and being a bold independent thinker! Keep going and let yourself shine. Inspiration comes in many forms, sometimes we have to create it out of nothing.

        Like

  14. I don’t know how to thank you enough. With the death of my father, I have been forced to address the reality of my life – that I, like you, have lived with two narcissistic parents my entire life. I thought that it was just my mother – I am the scapegoat, my brother the golden child – but realized today (as I read Joyce Carol Oates’ book Big Mouth and Ugly Girl) that my father was as well. Of course, I must have known on some level. Thinking about his funeral today made me realize that, of COURSE he had a huge number of people at his funeral! He spent all his time doing things that would PROVE that he was a success – something his own father told him on his death bed that my dad would never be. He would be in my town on business about 6 times a year. Did he call? Come over? Invite me to join him for a drink or dinner? Nope. The sadness of finally realizing how horrible and cruel they have both been to me is like an abyss of anguish swallowing me piece by piece. Thank you for your blog. I am working on making my pain manageable by writing about it, and I am so glad that I found your blog. It’s nice to know that someone understands, as I wait for the flying monkey attack after I do not attend the burial of my father’s ashes next week. Some days it is all I can manage just to breathe.

    Like

    1. Thank you for sharing 🙂

      It will get better for you, and you’ll come out of this period stronger and feeling more alive. When we are at our most vulnerable and fragile is when we find our greatest strength, we find our core self by allowing ourselves to fall apart – our core self never falls apart and it catches us and protects us when we do. The coping mechanisms and defenses which we use to survive growing up with narcissists can be very hard to crack, and sometimes it takes a seemingly devastating blow to do it, and when that happens it feels awful at first, but gradually it sets us free – like a chick breaking out of its eggshell.

      It is necessary to pass through the abyss of anguish, to be swallowed by it so that you can pass through it. It’s kind of like a mythological quest and journey. By going through the pain, you find the source of healing within, and pain goes from being an enemy to being an ally, showing you where you’re hurting and how to heal yourself, gradually, gently, with compassion for yourself.

      A lot of the pain held within is your own which needs you to acknowledge it (writing your story is a very good way of doing that, of giving voice to yourself and of listening to your voice, hearing your own wisdom rise up and express itself) – however a portion of that pain may be from your parents, as narcissists tend to pass their own wounds on to their children (as your father’s father did to him, so your father passed his on to you), that wound is not your wound, and that pain is not your pain to carry and needs to be returned to where and to whom it belongs.

      Healing from the wounds of growing up with narcissists is similar to going through the 5 stages of grief. I found the work of Elizabeth Kubler-Ross very helpful in dealing with my own grief which surfaced when I really understood who my parents were, when it finally sunk in and everything that I had hidden from myself began to come out of hiding.

      There are a lot of very good online articles and resources for children of narcissists and there are forums too for sharing with others who are going and have been through similar experiences.

      This is a particularly excellent post – http://theinvisiblescar.wordpress.com/2013/04/14/surviving-the-narcissistic-parent-acons-adult-children-of-narcissists/

      This is an excellent resource for information, and they have links to their forum and other support groups – http://outofthefog.net/Disorders/NPD.html

      There are many adult children of narcissists online. You are not alone. If you need to talk, to share, please feel free to do so here.

      Take care of yourself, trust yourself ❤

      Like

    2. I would like to say that you should not worry about attending your fathers ash interment. You should just try to heal your self and become stronger and more in touch with your feelings.The fact that you know what narcissism is, makes you a step ahead on the road to recovery from the abuse. I
      have to say that when I did not know what narcissism was, I was always questioning myself and my judgement. I am grateful that I know what it is.
      Everything I have read about narcissistic abusers is, No contact is the way to go. You should stay away from these people, especially at this time.
      You will come out stronger, better and you will know what you will accept and not accept! Narcissistic abuse is so multifaceted and insidious, so you need time to process this. I have resisted the urge to tell off my narcissistic abuser, and I am glad that I did, everything that I have read tells me that
      it is an exercise in futility. I can’t imagine living a life where I enjoy seeing others in pain, narcissists are truly sick demented people. You should know that this was something that you did not cause or deserve! Move past the hurt and get on with your life!!!

      Like

  15. I felt like that was me speaking… I know exactly how you feel about the simplified version vs the unsimplified version… no one ever seems to understand and offers their advice like my parents are the victims… which I why I have only 2 friends.

    Like

    1. Thank you 🙂

      One of the hardest aspects of dealing with narcissists is often other people who weigh in on the situation. They often ‘mean well’ but they don’t understand that their ‘well-meaning’ is causing more harm than help. They may have empathy for us, but their empathy is limited by their own experience and personal points of reference. Their own story influences how they hear and understand our story. If they are parents themselves, they may see a narcissistic parent through the eyes of their own issues connected to them being a parent. We may come to represent to them their own child who may view them critically, not because their child necessarily does but because they may have a hidden fear that they are not as good a parent to their child as they would like to be. Add to this their own views about their own parents, and excuses they may be making for the flaws they perceived in and pain they may have experienced from their own parents… and their perception of us is clouded by their perception of themselves.

      So the advice they give us isn’t really advice for us at all, it’s words they need to say and perhaps have us accept, because our reality is upsetting their reality and they need their reality validated even if it means invalidating ours. It becomes a self-preservation situation.

      If your parents are narcissists, speaking out about it can create all sorts of cognitive dissonance for those who hear your words. It may trigger their own issues, issues which they don’t want to accept or acknowledge, or it may threaten their ideals, and any number of other possibilities. By denying our reality, they maintain their own.

      We’re sacrificed to save them. Similar to what a narcissist does. So the cycle started by the narcissist continues unbroken with the unintentional and unwitting help of others.

      Most people prefer to believe that everyone is basically good. Narcissists rely on this and rely on others making excuses for them and their behaviour. A victim of narcissists has already done this. We’ve made excuses for them and their behaviour until we could no longer stand the pain caused by them and by excusing them, we could no longer deny our own truth… so by the time a victim of a narcissist works up the courage to stop making excuses for the narcissist, they are breaking through their own reservations and denial, and are looking for a sign of confirmation that what they are doing is right – instead they are often met with criticism, condemnation and denial of their reality, often in favour of the reality presented by the narcissist.

      The narcissist tends to choose a ‘popular’ reality to cover their tracks, to project and sell to others. Whereas the victim of a narcissist is presenting an ‘unpopular’ reality. For ‘outsiders’ it’s almost like a taste test – which reality do you prefer, which one tastes better to you?

      Narcissists tend to add loads of sugar to their cookies, cakes and pies… seeking to appeal to the sweet tooth of the taster, inducing a sugar rush, maybe even remind them of the cookies, cakes and pies their mother baked or their father treated them to when they had done something good.

      Children of narcissists use a different recipe, and rather than tasting sweet, things taste a bit too real, too organic.

      I’ve struggled with this issue a lot throughout my life, trying to get perspective on it and figuring out different methods of dealing with ‘outsiders’ weighing in with ‘advice’. Advice of which they don’t have to deal with the consequences if I were to take it. Some of the methods I’ve tried have been a bit aggressive – such as suggesting they adopt my ‘poor’ parents, be the child to them which they think I should be, and let me know how that works out for them. Mostly though I opted for saying nothing and deflecting and ignoring intrusion into my business. But sometimes it is unavoidable. Recently I had to hire a lawyer to deal with my mother – his first ‘advice’ to me was to reconcile with my mother with his help. I waited this ‘advice’ out and not long afterwards he requested that I never ask him to deal with my mother again.

      Sometimes we just have to wait for the narcissist to expose themselves and confirm our words.

      In the meantime… how people react to our truth, lets us know who they are. Sometimes the negative things in our lives show us the positive, the shadow defines the light.

      The other day someone commented on my post about being a child of narcissists and offered an inspiring perspective on things. A bold and new idea for those who are victims of narcissists, and how to deal with others who don’t believe us and our need to be believed. That comment is now a post – https://anupturnedsoul.wordpress.com/2014/07/26/being-a-child-of-narcissists-what-we-need-to-give-to-ourselves/

      Sometimes we have to stop looking at others and hoping they’ll give us something, and instead find a way to give that certain something to ourselves. And maybe if we give it to ourselves… others will give it to us too. Work in progress… as always 🙂

      Thank you for sharing.

      Best wishes!

      Like

    2. I want to thank you for this website!!!! I am so happy that what I am experiencing has a name!! My partner has a friend who been abusing me for years. Jim has all the traits of a narcissist, we have know him for about 20 years. I have always felt bad after being around this person, I couldn’t understand as to why.We have had holidays and birthdays with Jim, Jim ruined my last birthday, he picked a cheap restaurant that I did not like
      or would eat the food,Jim also was so generous he purchased a gift for me- 2 dollar box of chocolates. Just a slap in the face,I am still trying to forgive my partner for abandoning me like this.

      I decided not to go celebrate my birthday at the Chinese restaurant, my partner went to dinner at the restaurant and left me alone. I went and had
      dinner by myself. On holidays-Christmas we made arrangements to accommodate, the place he wanted , etc, We find out the day before via text-he
      not going he’s some where else with some one else. I feel like m birthday is a time for people to hurt me, don’t like them at all any more

      Most of the statements he makes to my me are inflammatory- he also sits and name drops all the time. I have known Jim for 20 years, the people
      he talks about I have never seen him with.This all seems like another fabrication., just more of his bullshit.

      I have told my partner that I was tired of Jim and hes pulled me back many time! I have recently told him that I am no longer going to have anything to
      do with Jim anymore. My partner thinks that Jim narcissism is something that everyone exhibits, “he doesn’t label his friends!” he told me we need couples therapy- seems like hes trying to control my behavior. I now know that I am strong enough to not go back to the abuse. I do still have feeling of revenge on the Jim the narcissist- but not as much as before. I am going to practice “No Contact” for me and my sanity.

      I am wondering if I can get my partner to see just how horrible and destruct his “friend ” is ! I think knowledge is power and I feel empowered by
      know about narcissists. Once you learn something like this , you can never go back or un-learn it! Many thanks for this website!!!

      Like

      1. Thank you for sharing 🙂

        I’m guessing from what you’ve said that you’ve already tried speaking with your partner about Jim being a narcissist, and your partner does not want to accept this and has excused Jim’s behaviour as being the regular narcissism which we all exhibit at times. If this is the case then trying to get your partner to see what he does not want to see will be very difficult and may backfire on you as he may think that you are the one who is being mean for saying bad things about Jim. This is a common occurrence when dealing with narcissists.

        One of the hardest things to do is to expose a narcissist, especially if you’re the only one who can see that they are a narcissist and everyone else thinks that they’re wonderful. Narcissists are very adept at Triangulation – http://outofthefog.net/CommonBehaviors/Triangulation.html – which is what it sounds like Jim is already doing with you and your partner, he’s getting both of you to fight over him, sabotaging your relationship, and he’s undermining your position, you’re a threat because you see through him and have decided to challenge him, his image, his authority and superiority. Narcissists do not like to be challenged, but at the same time they enjoy the battle because they love having an enemy.

        Other tactics which narcissists use, with links to detailed explanations for each one, are listed here – http://outofthefog.net/Disorders/NPD.html – the site also has a forum where you can discuss NPD with others who have had similar experiences with narcissists.

        Ruining birthdays and other celebrations is a favourite attention-getting (narcissistic supply) device for a narcissist. They do not like it when the attention is on someone else and create a scene which turns the attention onto them.

        Stealing someone else’s birthday is something they often do, they never grow up and are twisted children inside the body of an adult, always envious of what others have and are getting, and birthdays can bring out the worst side of their inner spoiled child. But they’re quite good at twisting things around so that they come out looking innocent, and the person who gets blamed is always someone else, often the person whose birthday they have just stolen gets the blame for ruining things for themselves. Classic narcissist ploy.

        Making plans and cancelling them at the last minute is an effective way to get people to focus their attention on the narcissist, even when they are somewhere else with other people, they need to know that those they are not with are as obsessed about them as they are with themselves. Hurting people is an easy way for a narcissist to get people to think about them.

        Couples therapy is actually a good idea. Make sure that you choose the therapist and find one who has experience and knowledge of NPD, that way when the subject of Jim comes up, you may get a professional opinion which your partner may listen to and consider. Sometimes people will only consider that someone they know, especially if they have known them for a long time and love them, is a narcissist if someone who is not a part of their intimate social circle points it out, if a therapist were to confirm your view that Jim may be a narcissist, then you partner may be willing to accept the information and look into it. It’s a longshot, as the therapist may not want to weigh in on someone they don’t know, have not met and aren’t treating. But still discussing the situation in a neutral environment may be helpful in clarifying matters. It’s worth a try.

        Best wishes!

        Like

  16. And my mum also called me a prostitute (last year) in front of my relatives because I like going out every day…i complained to my dad about this…almost 5 months later, my mum told me – “you are complaining saying I called you that. That is what girls like you are called.”

    Like

    1. Thank you 🙂

      Going no contact with your mum and dad is a healthy choice for you – you have to remember this, that you are doing it for yourself, for your sanity and health, because the process is difficult. You have to be determined and persevere for your own benefit. Put yourself first and don’t listen to any advice which tells you to go against your own decision. Make sure you have a support system (friends who understand your side of the story) which helps you through the tough times.

      There are online support forums for victims of Narcissists and children of Narcissists. Here are a couple:

      http://www.webofnarcissism.com/forums/

      http://outofthefog.net/index.html

      If you stay in the same community as your parents, it will be harder because your parents will use everyone around you to pressure you to make contact again and go back to the way things have always been. If you move away but stay in touch with people who know both you and your parents, on social media or otherwise, your parents will use these people to get to you and to find out information about you and where you are.

      There will be a lot of pressure from ‘society’, family and community for you to be a ‘good’ child to your parents regardless of whether your parents are good or bad. Children are expected to put up with whatever their parents do to them and to forgive their parents no matter what, psychological and emotional abuse without physical proof of the abuse is very hard to prove, and even if we can prove it people often turn a blind eye because they do not want their illusions of family shattered. Narcissists are very clever at creating the illusion of the perfect family, and covering their tracks, making you look bad and them look good.

      These are sources of information on this:

      http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-legacy-distorted-love/201105/the-narcissistic-family-portrait

      http://theinvisiblescar.wordpress.com/2013/04/14/surviving-the-narcissistic-parent-acons-adult-children-of-narcissists/

      http://www.psychedinsanfrancisco.com/energy-theft/

      It is absolutely not ‘normal’ or okay in any way for a parent to criticise their child (young or adult) in the way that you have described, those who say it is are either conditioned to accept that kind of abuse (have been abused themselves) and view it as ‘normal’ or they are also abusive in a similar way and therefore making excuses for it by claiming it is acceptable. Calling you a prostitute and then criticising you for complaining about it ‘because everyone does it so it’s okay’ – is not okay and it’s abuse. The method you described is known as as invalidation tactic – http://starbrows.wordpress.com/2010/06/21/nasty-people-2/

      The suicidal feelings are basically your survival instinct warning you that you need to get out of the toxic environment and save yourself. I understand the guilt and the desire to people-please – your parents have trained you to feel bad anytime you stand up for yourself against their abuse, and to push aside your needs for their demanding needs. However this is your life, and doing what you need to do for yourself is not something to feel guilty about, it’s something to be proud of. You are worth it. Please yourself first and foremost. And you will never be able to please them (it’s a manipulation tactic to get you to keep trying to win their approval – they will never give it, and the few times that they do they will find a way to make it hurt), they will always make you feel guilty and bad about yourself. Save yourself.

      You can thank them for giving you an education and for paying for everything they have ever given you, tell them that you are very grateful for everything they have done for you – then you’ve said it and that is that. Trying to point out to them that these are things which truly normal and healthy parents give to their children unconditionally because they love their children and want the best for them is pointless – they are using the ‘look at everything I have done for you’ routine to keep you forever indebted to them kind of like the Mafia or a criminal gang of some sort. They are using the guilt to manipulate you.

      If other people say that you are an ungrateful child – that’s their judgmental problem not yours. Those people do not have to live your life or live with the consequences of having narcissists as parents, so it’s easy for them to be judgmental. I have on occasion told people who have said things like that to me that they are welcome to adopt my parents and be the grateful child that I’m not if they feel so badly for them. Usually I just don’t listen because they are just enjoying being judgmental and really don’t care about me. If they cared about you, they’d support you and your desire to leave an unhealthy environment.

      Ultimately when you get away and go out into the world and start living your life on your terms, all of the concerns which you have now will start to diminish. Being around healthy people who are not part of the narcissist family environment makes all the difference. You’ll begin to see all the positives about yourself, the talents and strengths and the wonderful things about you which you were never allowed to see by the narcissists in your life because they were hostile, jealous, envious and possessive and want you to be as miserable as they are.

      It is difficult to go No Contact and to keep doing it, but it is very worth it. It is the healthiest choice I ever made.

      Take care of yourself, trust yourself, be gentle with yourself.

      Best wishes! 🙂

      Like

      1. Thank you Sweetie for your detailed reply…it means very much to me…I feel really better after reading ur reply..thank u for the links..i will check them out..i need all the support i can get…
        You said – “And you will never be able to please them (it’s a manipulation tactic to get you to keep trying to win their approval – they will never give it, and the few times that they do they will find a way to make it hurt”
        Recently as I am seeing the truth about the past – of my narcissistic mother – I have wondered does she know what she is doing?
        I don’t think it matters even if she doesn’t, but this question has been killing me for some time.
        I have read in a few websites that narcissists knew that what they are doing is hurting you, but the narcissist believes there is nothing wrong with their behaviour plus they don’t care that their behaviour is hurting you. I think this is true for my mum, not sure. But, I also feel like I am in denial..I used to think I am very lucky to have this lady as my mum-now I realize it wasn’t my thought, it was put in me by her. She would ALWAYS talk to me about how great she is and her family is. She would always criticize me and my dad. But, at the time I could not see it, cos she was really nice and charming..I guess I can’t accept the fact that her being nice and charming is an act to manipulate and control me. 😦
        Thank you for your support X 🙂

        Like

        1. Thank you 🙂

          I have spent quite a bit of time trying to figure out how aware narcissists are of what they are doing. Researching this can be quite confusing because of how the behaviour of those with NPD affects others – to protect ourselves from certain self-awareness we often give others, such as narcissists, more awareness than they actually have in the dynamic. It seems to be easier for us to believe that we were victimised by someone who was fully aware of what they were doing, rather than that they vicitimised us while being as unaware of what they were doing as we were. There is a tendency of others to view things in absolutes. Either or, rather than a bit of both. Villain or hero. No shades of grey.

          However I would say that the narcissists who are less consciously aware that they are being manipulative are more believable and convincing, thus their manipulations are harder to spot. If you believe your own lies and think they are the truth – you can sell it as the truth to others. If you know you’re lying, other people are more likely to pick up on your lies. So a narcissist who is unaware of their manipulations makes us believe that they are sincere because they believe that they are sincere.

          The confusion around NPD is actually very much a part of how NPD works and doesn’t work. Narcissists tend to be black or white thinkers, yet the whole disorder is one big grey area, blurry and confusing. The rules constantly change, as does the identity of the narcissist.

          I think the level of awareness depends on the type of NPD that the narcissist has, where they are on the NPD spectrum. Psychologists use several different terms to describe the different types of narcissist, and they also discuss the overlaps with other personality disorders which colour the NPD.

          http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/stop-walking-eggshells/201111/two-types-narcissists-pose-somewhat-different-challenges

          I would say that an Overt narcissist is more aware of their ‘games’ and manipulations. My father was that type of narcissist and he was more aware of what he was doing, which in some ways was easier to deal with because the game was more out in the open, he didn’t really hide it. He relied on other people hiding it from themselves. If you caught him in the act, he quite enjoyed the challenge of being confronted and he sometimes respected people who confronted him, even though he always felt he could outwit them no matter how clever they were or much much they could see through him. He was quite honest about using other people, and their propensity for denial when confronted by something unpleasant, against themselves. He was prone to boasting about how he’d manipulated someone. He knew when he was hurting someone and he knew that he was deliberately trying to hurt them – however I don’t think he knew why he felt compelled to be hurtful other than that it gave him some sort of pleasure/power trip to be that way. Hurting others eases the stress of the narcissist’s own wound. Basically he knew he was an A-hole and he didn’t mind other people knowing it.

          Overt narcissists tend to be male more often than female.

          A Covert narcissist is a very different type of narcissist from the Overt narcissist. They tend to be the ones who ‘play the victim’. They are always the ‘good’ one, they are always ‘right’, the problems they have are always someone else’s fault. They believe their own illusions thoroughly. They are less aware (if at all aware) of what they are doing, they hide what they are doing from themselves. They need us to believe them to confirm what they believe about themselves. When confronted they go into vicious denial – because they do not believe that anything they are doing is wrong. When they lash out and hurt someone, it is excused and justified self-righteously – they were defending themselves against a victimiser and they believe this version of events. Or they hurt you for your own good, and it always hurts them more than it hurts you – so you have no right to complain because it is all your fault and they are innocent. My mother is this type of narcissist and this type of narcissist is impossible to deal with. They are the saint, martyr, perpetual victim.

          Covert narcissists tend to be female more often than male.

          The Cover narcissist is also the type of narcissist who thinks, and adamantly believes, that they are the victims of narcissists (and everyone else). You can spot them by the intensity of their hostility and they tend to compete with other victims of narcissists. Their pain is always the worst anyone has ever felt, their narcissist abuser is always more ‘special’ in some way than anyone else’s and they enjoy the victim role to the point of being professional victims.

          I would hazard a guess that your mother is a Covert narcissist – hence your confusion about whether she is aware or not of how much she hurts you with her behaviour. There is also the added factor that a narcissist needs us to support their version of their identity and reality – as long as we refuse to accept who they really are and what they are really like, we help them to maintain the illusion that they are nice and charming and that everyone else is ‘evil’.

          Like you I was also trained to support my mother’s ‘perfect mother’ status, and to consider myself ‘lucky’ for having such a wonderful mother – no one else had such a wonderful mother (as was repeatedly pointed out to me), thus I must be extremely lucky and should be deeply grateful to her. Plus she was a wonderful and perfect mother in spite of my being a deeply flawed and imperfect child. I owe her for her ‘perfect mother-ness’ for the rest of my life and the debt will never be paid, it just keeps increasing.

          Covert narcissists can be absolutely lovely when everything is going their way and you are being who they need you to be to support their image – the nice and charming is not really an act to control you, it’s them being nice and charming because they are ‘good’ people. It is an act, but they are doing it for their own benefit not yours. A relationship with a narcissist is all about them – not you, you are an extension of them. They are incapable of seeing beyond themselves and what is going on inside their heads. They are incapable of empathy. Covert narcissists often claim to be empathic to a fault – what they actually mean is that they are projecting their wound into others. They also claim to be very sensitive – what they mean is they are hyper-sensitive about themselves and completely insensitive about others. They have absolutely no awareness about us as people, individuals. We don’t feel or think, unless we’re feeling or thinking what they decide that we are.

          If you make them look good, they reward you with ‘love’ – anything which you do as their child which other people admire and which they can boast about – is all due to their being a perfect parent. They take the credit. However if you ‘make them look bad’ in any way at all – it’s all your fault, you have to make amends, and they can hurt you without the slightest regret or sense of being wrong or being a bad parent (quite the opposite, they think inflicting hurt on you is them being a good parent and they do not view it as hurt or pain) because you made them do this to you, you are a bad child (poor them, this is not their fault, nothing to do with them, and blaming the other parent is a common defense against any possible accusation against them – I’m a good parent, it’s the other parent who is a bad one).

          It is very hard to face the reality that our parent is a narcissist – because our whole childhood becomes a lie in many ways. Yet by accepting this we free ourselves from having to maintain the lie in perpetuity. There are many benefits for us and our lives in facing what is hard to face.

          Above all, remember that your mother has NPD – her inability to love you is not your fault. Narcissists do not know how to love. Their version of love is toxic.

          You are a beautiful soul who deserves to be loved, to love, and to be free to be yourself.

          Take care of yourself, trust yourself, be gentle with yourself. Give yourself time to heal 🙂

          Like

            1. Covert narcissists are the most difficult type of narcissist to deal with because their level of denial is extreme, and that makes them more adept at fooling others. Since they believe their lies without a shadow of a doubt, so do others.

              I’ve been re-researching Covert narcissists, hoping to find some new information as I’m dealing with one at the moment in a legal scenario, and I came across this series of articles:

              http://thenarcissistinyourlife.com/category/covert-narcissists/

              and this bit made me laugh in a non-amused way:

              “I have become more aware of the dark gifts of covert narcissists.Their act is so smooth that it deceives most of us, even highly trained therapists, psychiatrists, custody judges, social workers, domestic law attorneys and the list goes on. Don’t be surprised if you have been compromised by the gifted covert narcissistic man or woman who makes you believe that he or she is genuine and deeply cares about you and wants you in his/her life. His words and manner are so convincing—the eyes sparkle and hold yours. The words glide perfectly out of his mouth. He knows exactly how to move toward you, give you the look that you cannot resist and dare you to say “no.”. Most of us can’t. We are taken, hooked, goners, filled with desire from head to toe. Our frontal lobes are temporarily out of commission. That’s the initial power of the presence of these clever seducers. They strike us as genuine with enough vulnerability to be convincing. The false self of the covert narcissist charmer type is exquisitely honed like a fine piece of ancient 22 karat gold jewelry.” – Linda Martinez-Lewi, Ph.D. Clinical Expert on the Narcissistic Personality.

              I had tried a preemptive tactic, warning other people of this particular covert narcissist (it’s my mother so I know how she operates), but of course my warnings fell on deaf ears. I was viewed as being overly dramatic, so they had to learn the hard way that I was speaking the truth, which is not helpful to my case.

              The best way to deal with a Covert narcissist is to cut them out of your life if you can. Something which isn’t always possible. However you can work on yourself, inform yourself, and protect yourself from being dragged into their version of reality (especially their version of who you are) – you just can’t stop others from getting sucked in and suckered – so not only do you have to protect yourself against the covert narcissist, but also against all those whom they influence. This is possible and you have the ability within you.

              Trust yourself, find the wisdom within and use it. Take good care of yourself, you are your first priority.

              Best wishes and thank you for sharing 🙂

              Like

              1. Hey. 🙂 Thank you so much for your reply.
                You just described my mum in that paragraph. Thanks for the link. I will check it out after I post this reply.
                My mum was using me all these years – emotionally. Now I stopped letting her use me and she has started using my brother and I am shocked at how she influenced him too and how he changed. He was such a good boy. But, now he is acting EXACTLY like I did when I was my mum’s “friend”.
                It’s scary and shocking. I am really upset about this.
                But, I cannot do anything about it as my parents have turned him against me. I am praying that God should save him from my parents and that he should see my parents’ true nature.
                I believe the main reason I couldn’t tell the true nature of my parents for so long (toxic dad and narcissist mum) is because they have provided for our physical needs generously – food, clothing, education.
                So, as far as I knew, how can my parents use me when I am the one getting the money benefits from them?
                But, now I think that a lot of what they do is manipulation as they are doing it so that I will never leave them physically and will always stay with them. Yuck! That’s disgusting and sad.
                Even yesterday, mum shouted at me saying how I am thankless even after they did all this for me financially and I did not do anything for them. She said how children who have less money love their parents more than I do.
                😦
                I wanted to say that is because those parents don’t control and manipulate and irritate their kids.
                My mum is also jealous of me- she doesn’t like me looking prettier than her-she used to discourage me from straightening my hair and wearing make-up. And it worked. Now I don’t care about my appearance at all. Someone else will say that I am blaming my mum. But, I am not. It’s the truth. When I was a teenager, I used to like trying make-up and looking after my face. Now, I am 24 and I actually don’t care and I find it so hard to take care of my body.
                This year I realized that this is because mum discouraged me and being “friends” with her killed my confidence and self-image. If you don’t have these two, you won’t care about yourself. Her Mission Is Accomplished!
                😦 So sad.

                Like

                1. You’re absolutely right, there is nothing which you can do about your brother or for him at this stage, just trust that one day he will see through them and their manipulations as you have. Then be there for him when he reaches out to you to offer him your love and insight. But for now, give him space. It is a very painful thing to accept, but your own experience will help you to understand the situation and ease your upset a bit – use your empathy and give him time to understand things for himself. We each have to walk our own path and learn from it. That is how we develop, grow and discover our inner strength, ourselves.

                  There are many narcissists in this world, and sometimes learning about them the hard way early in our lives gives us what we need to progress through life with the sort of knowledge and confidence which will protect us. Everything happens for a reason in some ways. What you now know will be of benefit to you in the years to come in many different ways. You can help others who have experienced what you have. You will also be able to spot those who are narcissistic, and those situations which are narcissistic more easily than those who have not had an experience such as yours. You have insight and strength which is of value.

                  Narcissists often use material wealth and generosity to support their image – they tend to do things for public consumption, in private things are very different, but the public can’t see it because there is a mirage, a false reality, covering the actual reality.

                  There were quite a few articles about this a while ago concerning the ‘trend’ of parents giving ‘everything’ to their children on a material level to make up for what was absent on an emotional and psychological level. Those with NPD are always aware of what is ‘in’ in society and they use it to further their version of reality and themselves (and their version of others).

                  Those with NPD are always envious – at first it looks like admiration, but afterwards it reveals itself as a vicious form of envy. Every time they give a compliment it is poisoned with criticism.

                  NPD mothers hate their daughters for many reasons, one of the most obvious is the envy of their daughter’s youth – those with NPD are terrified of aging. They try to steal youth from their child in many subtle ways, all of which end up undermining how their daughter sees herself. This is particularly bad during the teenage years because that is when females become aware of their sexuality, their desirability, and their own bodies. Being a teenager in a family where the parent has NPD is a nightmare – the NPD behaviour of the parent gets much worse and they wage a campaign of invalidation against their child worse than they ever did before because the teenage years are a time of self-discovery, of rebellion, of the power of youth, of so many things which threaten the narcissist and thus the narcissist becomes more hostile.

                  I can still recall vividly how my mother behaved when I became a teenager. She did not want me to grow up, and she did not want me to escape her clutches. She had a similar effect on me as your mother has had on you. You challenge now is to gradually undo what she has done to you by learning to appreciate your youth, your beauty, your body, and who you are. You have the strength and ability to do this. Be gentle with yourself and look in the mirror with eyes of love, not with your mother’s eyes. Give yourself time.

                  Take care of yourself 🙂

                  Like

                  1. Hello.
                    Thank you so much for your reply. It is extremely kind of you to post very detailed replies, thank you for caring so much for me. X. Sorry to hear about your mum. I don’t know what to say, just that I have been through that.
                    Can I ask if you don’t mind, are you no-contact now with your mum? If I am not mistaken, I read in one of your posts that your dad died and your mum tracked you down for inheritance.
                    How did you cope with the ‘guilt’ of going no contact?
                    I feel extremely guilty even though I know what I am doing is right in God’s eyes. I am not questioning my decision, I just wish God would change them and so I wouldn’t have to go no-contact. In the past, I have let guilt control me and done things for my parents that I shouldn’t have done. I don’t want that to happen again.

                    I came across a video and website last week, which I think you absolutely must check out..it isn’t solely about NPD parents but ALL toxic parents…when I visited this website, I saw that I was actually giving my parents, especially my mum more “permission” to hurt me and get away with stuff. Even this has been taught to me by my mum – her needs matter, she matters, i don’t, my needs don’t.
                    http://parentfreebychoice.blogspot.co.uk/

                    Like

                    1. Hi 🙂

                      Thank you for sharing the links, I haven’t watched the video yet, but I perused the Parent Free By Choice blog and found it to be very interesting, particularly the About page which explains how it came about.

                      To answer your questions:

                      1) I am still no contact with my mother. Since the matter is a legal one, I have a lawyer and they handle communication with her. She has tried to bypass them in various crazy and manipulative ways – one of which was refusing to communicate with my lawyer until I prove to her that I am still alive by contacting her directly. Typical narcissist behaviour, typical of her behaviour. I did not give in to her demands, because her demands were irrational, and they were a part of a ploy to also bypass legal issues.

                      2) I did not experience guilt when I went no contact with my parents. I did have a lot of regret that I had not done it sooner. It was one of the best decisions I’ve ever made, but I delayed it due to a misguided sense of duty.

                      The thing about guilt is that it serves a purpose in the human psyche which helps us to develop certain other traits. But just like all the other feelings which we experience, it can be used in ways which do not suit its original purpose. Instead of helping us, it becomes obstructive to our development.

                      This article gives a good overview of the different types and uses of guilt, it also gives some ideas on how to work through guilt – http://psychcentral.com/lib/how-do-you-forgive-yourself

                      You have said that guilt has controlled you in the past, so the challenge now is to learn to control guilt. Which requires understanding the feeling which you are calling ‘guilt’ and the inner dialogue which goes with it, and the other elements which may be tied into it. Real guilt tends to be very logical, as in – you do something which harms someone, you realise that you action has caused harm, this prompts guilt which inspires you to make amends. False guilt tends to be illogical, such as – someone else does something which harms you, they blame you for their actions, they take no responsibility but you do, you feel guilty for what they did to you, and you try to make amends for what you didn’t do and for what was done to you. Narcissists tend to use the latter to get away with with treating other people badly, they use false guilt to manipulate others.

                      Guilt is not something you need to get rid of feeling, it is a natural part of being human. It promotes conscience and empathy. Feeling it also shows that you are not a narcissist, because they do not feel guilt, nor empathy, nor do they have a conscience.

                      Your parents won’t change, but how they affect you is something you can change.

                      One of the tactics I used to deal with getting a clearer view of my relationship with my parents was to stop relating to them as my parents and to view them as people. This tactic can help when dealing with the judgmental attitudes of others who interfere in your relationship with your parents. If you told others that a person had treated you the way that your parents treat you, they would probably advise you to cut ties with that ‘toxic’ person, however if you say your mother or your father treats you that way, others suddenly lose perspective and start making excuses for your abusers, insisting that you should put up with the abuse because ‘they’re you parents and they love you’. That is illogical, and narcissists thrive in that kind of environment and everyone else dies in it.

                      Trust yourself, trust the path you are on. It is not going to be easy, but it will be worth it. Take care of yourself 🙂

                      My parents

                      Like

                    2. Hello. 🙂 Thank you so much for your reply. Sorry for thé late reply, i saw your comment only today.
                      Thank you for thé guilt link. I will check it out. I have been dealing with too much guilt in thé past few days as i am planning to go no contact next month, hopefully If everything goes according to plan, in thé first week of august itself.
                      I feel extremely conscious of thé fact of how my ‘disappearing’ will look. My parents, and family friends are going to lose respect for me thinking i ran off with à Man. Only i and god will know i am going to save my sanity. Over thé past month, i have been having physical symptoms of stress – headaches and unbelievably high fevers. I also have chicken pox now – due to stress! Can you believe it ?! But even today, i was re-thinking my décision to leave.
                      It’s this guilt i feel that is thé culprit – that my parents will Be hurt cos of my running away and they will lose face in front of their family friends and relatives.

                      Like

                    3. People are going to think what they’re going to think, whether we try to control what they think or not, whether we do what we believe would get them to think well of us or not, whether we spend hours and years trying to win their approval and live up to their standards or not.

                      If someone is going to judge you, they’re going to judge you because they like to be judgemental.

                      When it comes to narcissists, that’s the rule. They are going to think what they think, and what they think about you always has to do with what they think about themselves and what they want others to think about them. It’s all about them, never about you as you truly are.

                      Whatever you choose to do is going to be a hard choice. Pick the path which you have the most passion about, the one which suits who you are, because that will see you through the difficult times and challenges ahead.

                      Ask yourself all the questions you need to ask and pay attention to how you feel about the answers. Your feelings matter greatly. Your mind is more flexible than your heart. Your mind can convince you to stay and put up with your parents, and the life they want you to live for them. But does your heart have it in it to live that life?

                      The thing about life altering decisions is – you can change your mind and make new decisions along the way. Adapt, alter, and adjust your course as you discover new things. So if you take a chance now, you don’t have to stick with it if what you find along the way is that the decision was wrong. There will be complications and consequences of each decision you make, but who is to say that they are good or bad until you decide if they are good or bad. We learn by living and taking chances, following our heart, and being aware of our minds.

                      I had chicken pox late in life, after exhausting myself so much doing what was expected of me. I was very run down, physically, mentally, emotionally, and it left my immune system open to illness, and I got ill. My darling narcissist mother found out about my chicken pox and sent me a card with a cat on the cover on which she’d added spots with a red pen and she called me spotty-faced. That’s a narcissist for you! They don’t give a shit about you… it’s up to you to care for yourself and take care of yourself!

                      Like

                    4. Thank you for your reply….in youtube, watch ‘melanie tonia evans’…it is about how to overcome narcissistic abuse…they are Different to thé usual Videos…Thank you for ur Support…god bless x…

                      Like

        2. I completely know where you are coming from. My covert narcissistic mother (now deceased) was a master at the cheerful, sugary sweetness act! It took me until I was in my mid 30’s to even see how utterly manipulative, back stabbing, controlling, and HATEFUL she really was to everyone under that extremely convincing mask. But, it sure brought to light why I felt such an underlying pain in my relationship with her my whole life. I went no contact with her not long after that. I have never regretted it, or have ever missed her for a second!! Needless to say I did not attend her funeral.

          Liked by 1 person

          1. Thanks for your comment Susan…i am on the verge of no contact with my family and relatives – all of them toxic with a couple of narcissists…god hates verbal abuse..kudos to U for going no contact..

            Like

  17. THANK YOU so much for writing this post..i am planning to go no contact with my narcissistic mum and toxic dad once I move out of home..they have emotionally and verbally abused me all my life..this year i have started having feelings of suicide…i am planning to move out next month..I feel guilty though and also since I am a people-pleaser, I care a lot about my reputation which I am trying to change..My parents looked after my physical needs extremely well…they paid for my education…so when I go no contact, everyone will say that I am ungrateful, that’s why i am doing this to my parents..how can I cope with that? How can I make sure my parents don’t find me after I go no contact?
    My mum is jealous of my independence and lifestyle choices. She didn’t get to control her life so she is hell bent on controlling mine..I am 24 and still she buys clothes for me even though I tell her not to…I hate her styles…every time she buys clothes, she tells me this is the last time she buys clothes as we are trying to save money…this has been going on for 8 years..bitch..i hate her…sorry for the language..i had to get it out..i am unemployed right now…and when i buy clothes, she tells me to stop buying clothes as we don’t have enough money..now i realize she does this to stop me from buying clothes…her sister and her friend told me that a mother saying bad things to her children is normal and that i should forgive and forget as my parents have brought me up like a queen with all material blessings… 😦 I am going mad..according to my culture, the losses she made in my life because of her verbal and emotional abuse are very small because I am lucky my parents provide for my physical needs and they don’t stop doing that..both my parents are also workaholics and approval addicts,,,they care too much about what people think…

    Like

  18. You are right on with everything! It all makes sense to me, because I’ve lived it. Catching on to all of this has turned my life inside-out and upside-down, but that’s exactly how it is. Thanks for another great posting.

    Like

    1. Thank you 🙂

      What you’ve lived is valuable experience and knowledge, you’ve had intensive training in how to play the game… it just takes a while to realise that everything which was used against you can also be turned into a power for your own protection. Having your life turned upside down and inside out… it can be very disorienting, but go with it and you’ll land on your feet on solid ground, and you’ll find everything else has flipped around too. The power they once had over you is now power which you have over them.

      It takes a long time to get to that point, but for children of NPD parents, once you get there, you get it, and it can feel like a quickening, suddenly everything falls into place and makes sense, and you know what to do and how to do it – although it may take some practice and some mistakes along the way. Personal power takes a while to get used to, especially if you’ve felt powerless for a long time.

      You have all the wisdom you need inside of you, the information you gather from the internet is helping you to find it and stir it to life.

      Like

  19. I’ll be in court this Friday to begin divorce proceedings from my narcissistic husband. I was finding such freedom in being away from him, making my own choices, and today it hurt. His lawyer sent me some of his papers and in it was a bank statement that showed him paying for an online dating site in March. Three days later, he was spending money at a sex shop. It makes me sick. We were still living under the same roof at the time. Nobody deserves this kind of pain

    Like

    1. Dear Carrie,
      of course you don’t deserve it at all, that’s why divorce is the outlet to new life and new beginnings. It’s horrible to feel humiliated and betrayed by someone you believed he loved you, but it’s unacceptable to look in the mirror and acknowledge you are that miserable person inflicting that deep pain to another, I couldn’t live with myself. rejoice that you are not that person and you are yourself. Pluck up courage!
      seashell

      Like

      1. Thanks, seashell. I am doing what I can to grow and learn from this, it was hard not to take his actions personally. But as my friends and therapist say, “he is being him. you just happen to be stuck in the middle. If it wasn’t you, he’d be doing the same stuff to another person. It’s not about you, its about him.”

        Like

    2. Best wishes for your court appearance. Remember to stay focused on your goal of being free and away from him, use your pain and anger at him and how he treated you as inspiration to keep you strong and determined. If you can manage it, and I know it is going to be difficult, don’t let your pain and anger cloud your thinking, do not get caught up in the wound he inflicted on you, while going through the legal side of the divorce process.

      Find a good support system to help you through the pain, so you can express how you are feeling and talk things through in a safe and private environment. A therapist or a really good friend who is able to listen, let you vent your emotions, and let you work your way through the wound to a place of healing.

      Narcissists don’t play the game of life the same way as non-narcissists, the rules of decent human conduct, fairness, right and wrong, don’t apply to them unless they are using them against us to manipulate us. So, don’t expect him to take responsibility for any of his actions, or see anything wrong with what he did, or ever admit any fault or blame, and don’t hold your breath waiting for an apology. He has already blamed you for everything, he will continue to do so. Evidence and proof that he is the one in the wrong will not suddenly make him realise what he did, and he will not miraculously become a better person – although he may pretend to be if it gets him what he wants, however judging by how he has behaved since you involved the legal system in the divorce, he will more likely go on the defensive/offensive and use it as evidence and proof against you, and claim that you drove him to do what he did, and he will be convinced that his version of reality is the correct version.

      Try to stay calm and contained when dealing with legalities, let your lawyer handle the case. Chances are one of the reasons that your husband didn’t want to involve lawyers in the divorce is because there are legal irregularities in his finances or elsewhere (such as what you found) which he wanted to keep hidden. Let the facts do the talking.

      One of the things which makes the pain worse for victims of narcissists is trying to make sense of the behaviour of a narcissist, trying to understand how they could do and say what they do and say, how anyone could treat another human, especially one whom they claimed to love, the way that they do. Everything they do and say is all about them, it’s not about you, so what he did with the dating site and the sex shop, it’s all about him and his needs and what he wants, it is not about you.

      I’m going to give you two links which you may find helpful:

      This is an article about being the victim of a narcissist, and explains narcissists and how they affect us – http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evolution-the-self/201404/the-vampire-s-bite-victims-narcissists-speak-out

      This is a forum for victims of narcissists, it offers information and support – http://www.webofnarcissism.com/forums/

      Take care of yourself!

      Like

      1. Thanks for the reminder that its not about me at all, it’s all about him and his needs! My therapist reminds me of this, but I tend to take what he does personally.
        He is not going to look good in court. He asked me not to get an attorney since we can do this the “fair” way (I didn’t believe him). Since he’s been served, he fired me from my job, stopped paying my bills, and said he was turning off my cell phone. AND he is withholding $10k from me stemming from a settlement award I got in an accident. He, however claims that the $10k settlement is his (but he got it 2 years ago and hasn’t spent a penny of it? Liar). On top of this, there’s the dating site and sex shop. What a blessing it’ll be to have him out of my life!

        Like

        1. It’s going to be a hard process – narcissist + legalities = a big pain – as they keep trying to evade justice and responsibility. They are a law unto themselves, which is why they hate the legal system, try to avoid it and try to get you to avoid it too (because everything is about them and what they want and need, and they usually have done something illegal which they want to keep hidden).

          Your approach is the correct one, remember that. Trust yourself. Focus on your goal and stay strong, don’t let the narcissist draw you into their confusion (he can have the confusion in the divorce settlement, it’s his anyway). Be willing to let go of things so you can have your freedom, but pay attention to what he wants from you as this is your leverage.

          Best wishes!

          Like

          1. Thank you! I’m off to a good start! My husband has to pay me $2500 a month in spousal support. He and his lawyer made arguments for paying $1300 (minimum wage) but now he has to pay double that! He also has to pay me for all of the furniture I paid for in the house we lived in…off to a good start! I’m a firm believer in karma and the law of attraction, so he’s getting a taste of how he treats others!

            Like

  20. Hi, i really need an advice, so if you got the time to listen, i need your help about a relationship with a narcissist i had. but i am so confused and lost with my life daily now.

    Well, what can i say? he’s workaholic, selfish, critical, self-centered, and ambitious about fame. he said once that his priorities were always college and his YouTube cover videos first, and then relationship. how do you know if he is a narcissist or just didn’t like me enough to work it? we’ve been together for 8 months and I’ve had enough, but i can’t tell if the problem was mine by giving always more into this commitment emotionally, and he never give enough of it, sometimes it was just none emotion. i always felt for months that something was not right, but i couldn’t know quite right what or why, so i kept testing him, and I’ve seen the worst behavior from him. My friends were always saying to me that i should break up (that he’s to selfish, he want different things, and he’s not right for me) but i ignored it, and i tried to do something about it… but it only it got worst. i only saw the real him, when i finally wanted to broke up for real… he started to disrespect me, he disrespected my mother (when i always gave my house for us to do our thing, since we are gay and he wasn’t out of the closet in public or to his parents – he said that was no problem at all for us to work out as a relationship) and was always putting me down professionally and calling me a kid (that was the only arguments he always had), and i decided to finally break up….
    he wanted to stay friends, but i said no, it’s obvious we need space to move on each other and he didn’t even respected me enough to be a friend or respect us not to talk for some months now, what the hell was he thinking? I tried and tried, but i couldn’t reach him, and i still don’t know why. i always gave him space for his life and all other stuff, so i can’t say i was obsessed or anything. when i ended it was a relief, but it’s been a month and it’s been harder then i though. i can tell if it was just me that wasn’t enough for him to love me, and give just like i gave within time, or if he’s a narcissist and i simply couldn’t do nothing anymore, since people never change. he only experience was one relationship that he was cheated, 3 years ago, and it seems that he didn’t let go of it too… not that he still likes him, but i feel his anger about it, resentment for being cheated and thats the excuse he uses for him to be so cold and not believing on the emotional side, and only rational. why was he in this relationship with me after all this time? lol. i believed that it was only a matter of time to get more emotional, but i guess it was a #######4, and i was only blind. he somehow tricked me to let my self-esteem go down with his general critics about everything, for me to get adapted to him to save this relationship (i tried to end the relationship other times, i just didn’t end it because i was blinded about him), and i forgot to listen to my voice… i feel so stupid.
    he has a HUGE ego, that’s why i think he can learn or ear me out when i say he has big problems to resolve with himself as a person. he goes out on the street, and he thinks hes famous everywhere in my country just because of some cover videos he does on YouTube with 1,000 views or less daily. He leaves in a reality that he is better than everyone, he puts himself on a pedestal not only with me, but people in general. (his teachers, partners of work, etc).
    i was blinded by his ways… i didn’t know exactly what was wrong, i just felt it. i just though he was insecure, scared (since the lack of experience with relationships and was cheated last time), so i fighted for the relationship, and tried to pull him off the square he lives in. but anyway, i did a research, and i think i can agree with some topics about “the codependent”… is it my fault, for me to be like this, who damaged the relationship? i always had my opinion on things, although, i was always corrected by him in the end, he was always right about everything… i started to shut my mouth, because he said i was always starting fights, when i was just speaking my mind of what i think it was wrong generally.
    It’s been a really painful phase of my life, with so much happening in my professional life, i feel i can’t focus anymore, or feel like doing anything at all at the end of the day.
    Recently i’ve came to know he is inviting fans to go to the cinema with him on Facebook, how lame is that? Srssly? Even yesterday, after 1month and 2 weeks of no contact with him, he added me on GooglePlus, and i think it was on purpose?! All i wanted was him to say sorry, at least, and it would be so much better for me to go on… i’m afraid to see him with another guy, doing all the things he never did with me, like love him and treat him right? can a selfish/narcissist have that? he never did say he loved me though. i’m confused between if he never said he liked me at all, all this happened, or he really is narcissist and he can’t love me. oh well… i’m also afraid to go to many places and see him. I’m losing my hope on relationships, and on myself.

    help me on this one to clear my mind and heart, thanks

    Like

    1. Hi 🙂

      From what you say, it does sound like this man is a narcissist.

      The most important thing to do to clarify confusion is to inform yourself on narcissists, as understanding the disorder will help you to draw a line between what is them and what is you, as blurred lines between self and other is part of the disorder. Narcissists tend to blame others for the problems which belong to them. They pass their wound on, hoping to get rid of it and those who are in a relationship with them end up in pain, confused, thinking everything is their fault, while the narcissist pretends that everything is your fault and they are perfect.

      I’m going to give you 2 links to 2 blogs which give more insight and information, and offer ways to heal yourself from the damage caused by being in a relationship with a narcissist (or someone who is very narcissistic).

      1 – http://letmereach.com/ – this is a blog created by Kim Saeed, she has personal experience of a relationship with a narcissist and her focus is on regaining your self-esteem after being in a relationship with a narcissist.

      2 – http://n-continuum.blogspot.co.uk/ – this is a blog, which also has a forum for those recovering from a relationship with a narcissist, and many resources for those seeking more information. CZBZ also has personal experience of being in a relationship with a narcissist and of dealing with narcissists.

      First – stop blaming yourself and trying to figure out what you did wrong or what is wrong with you. There is nothing wrong with you. You fell in love and shared your love, which is natural and beautiful. For you the love was real, deep and meaningful. Don’t question it, your love and yourself, now that the relationship has ended.

      Narcissists live in the mind. They think instead of feeling, their thinking is their feeling. When they meet someone whom they admire, they focus on them and seek to own them. They want what you have as they see it as special and precious (which it is), they see you as special and precious. That is their version of love. However it is all about them, what they want, need, desire, have to have for themselves. They want to own you and control you

      At first the relationship will be very intense, ecstatic, and have a fated feel about it. They seem like the perfect partner, the ideal lover. And they make you feel wonderful. But narcissists do not handle the later stages of a relationship well because intimacy makes them uncomfortable, they feel vulnerable, exposed, and this makes them very fearful. As you get to know them better, see who they are behind their social mask, they tend to become cruel because they want to be perfect and they are afraid that you can see all their imperfections. They project what they think is wrong with them onto you. They criticise you, blame you for everything which they think is wrong, make you responsible for all their problems, they end up destroying everything which was once beautiful making it ugly, and then tell you you’re the one doing it. The more you see who they really are, the more horrible they become because they are afraid of what you see, they want to hide it, deny it, discard it. You eventually become their shadow, the keeper of their dark side.

      This is something which creates the most confusion because you keep hoping that they will see you, but all they see when they look at you is their own projections, because all relationships are about them, and all people are extensions of themselves. Everything which he has told you about yourself is not about you, he is talking about himself, everything he has accused you of being, saying, doing, all those accusations are about him, what he does, says and is.

      The disrespect towards you is contempt and fear. Narcissists do not believe they are loveable (they are right) and when someone loves them, they test that love by becoming increasingly abusive. They don’t believe your love is real, because they think you love as they do and their love is not real. They also would never put up with someone who treated them the way they treat others, so they see your love and ability to put up with their behaviour as a weakness, they are afraid of weakness, and this makes them contemptuous which makes them increasingly disrespectful.

      They put others down to promote themselves, their superiority needs others to be inferior to them. They need others to maintain their version of reality and their image, but others must always be less than them. Their fear is that they are less than others, and this is made worse by how much they need others. They need others more than others need them. They don’t exist without the reflection of themselves in others. The more he needed you, the more he would have wanted to make you feel as though he did not need you.

      From what I gather from you, you’re openly gay, whereas he is not openly gay and therefore he is keeping this from his family. This would be something which he would admire about you, and your family, but a narcissist’s admiration is envious and becomes contemptuous very quickly. He would be envious of the power which you have which he does not have, your ability to be yourself, to be sexually liberated. This would have eaten away at him because you are strong where he is weak. Narcissists are obsessed with power, and for them sex is not sex, not a way to connect intimately with another person, but a form of power, a way to control. So for him you have a power which he does not have, which he would want to have and take away from you – which might explain how he behaved towards your mother. He would have been envious of the relationship which you have with your mother.

      Narcissists try to pass on their wound, the wound which caused them to be a narcissist. They repeat what was done to them when they were wounded in all of their relationships. They try to make others feel how they feel. They repeat the same behaviour over and over again. He will do to others what he did to you. So if you see him with someone else, from the outside it may appear perfect, especially is he knows you’re watching, he’ll want to make you think he has found someone who can do what you couldn’t and can be who you wouldn’t for him. It’s all about appearances, image, and illusion. A narcissist is permanently performing an act for others to see, admire, envy… what lies underneath is very different from what is on the surface.

      Don’t lose hope in yourself, or in your ability to have a healthy and loving relationship. You sound like a wonderful person and you will find someone who loves and appreciates you the way that you deserve. Don’t let a relationship with a narcissist make you believe otherwise.

      Those friends of yours who warned you about him, they obviously love and appreciate you and were worried for you. They see you as a wonderful guy who got caught up with someone who was not good enough for you and who tried to make you believe you were not good enough for them. Sometimes we just have to experience things for ourselves because that’s how we learn, how we find things out in a deeply personal way. The experience was a good one to have, let it inspire you, show you how strong you are, show you your talents and the things about you which make you unique. Use this relationship as a negative muse to inspire something positive.

      Focus on the good things people tell you about yourself, use those to balance out the negative things which this narcissist has made you believe. That is just a narcissist being a narcissist. Be gentle with yourself, allow yourself time to heal from this relationship, and it will take time, remember who you are, trust your instincts, trust yourself, let yourself love yourself and forgive yourself for being in love with a narcissist. Your love was real and your love is beautiful… that is why the narcissist did what he did, he saw your beauty and wanted to own it and when he couldn’t own it he tried to destroy it so you couldn’t have it either. But he can’t destroy it. The confusion will clear and you’ll see yourself and your ability to love has become stronger.

      Hope this helps, take care of yourself.

      Like

      1. I know that i did give myself too much in the beginning, i’ve learned that mistake too, i’m not perfect either way, i can’t only blame him afterall. but i should have seen the signs sooner. Lesson learned and i really hope this experiences strengths me for the next relationships, and not fear me like this one did to myself now. I’ve met many things about myself that i wasn’t conscious about, how i am fragile, sensitive, a really giving person and how i let myself trust others easily in a relationship, to give my weaknesses and flaws, giving all the love i can and letting entering in my total life. i guess it’s a lesson for me to protect more myself the next time. Maybe it was after all a bad luck to caught one narcissist too either way…

        He didn’t even forgot his ex who cheated on him 3 years ago yet, and it’s sick… the day i broke up, it was because he made a mess of a deal for not wanting to go to a place where he claimed he had “memories of him”, i got so mad at him, and he treated me so badly. it was like it was supposed for me to accept and have to be warned about with all the places he had “memories of him”, he was with me for 8 months already, where is the sense in that? is he all the way envy just cause he was cheated? is that so bad for a narcissist? he’s ruining his life with it. he lost me, his best-friend because of his ex, and many other people for his “narcissistic behaviors” after him (he can’t blame his ex for cheating on him all the way, for him to become this way cold and cruel after that. and from what i know, he was very deeply obsessed, jealous and controlling with his ex), which is why i questioned a lot if he knows how to love someone. it’s about control all the way, isn’t it? the “narcissistic love”? he was never this way with me, because maybe i’m the opposite of his ex, i’m very giving and loyal, how could he ever be threatened? ahah. What do you think about this?

        I have no words to say… I’m almost speechless with your help, i’m saving this to keep me going on the road if i ever go down again. Thank you so much for your time and your own words to help me trough this, thank you thank you 🙂

        Like

        1. God im so sad for your pain, nothing u do or say or feel will ever, ever get through to him. So in the end you have to go back to yourself and starttaking care of you. Its because you have good values and are kind that he uses that against you. I bet you feel like you have been through a washing machine but you will see a beautiful calm lake as soon as you go back to loving your self. Big hug mate and god bless you.

          Like

          1. Thank you so much for your support. It feels a release. 2 months later, i’m feeling wide awake now. but it’s a pain in the ass, because i would love to help him because he is so young 19years old, and to see all these narc patterns, it’s really heartbreaking for me… not only for me, but also because i know i can’t help him (EVEN if he doesn’t deserve it at all). It’s frustrating… he is what he is, only him can save himself! I know that even if i would comeback with contact 2 months later, he would treat me with contempt and probably laugh thinking “ahaha i was right, i won!” i bet it. love as is silly ways too :/ i have to keep my power that i toked from him when i broke up with the relationship and friendship (no contact after)!

            Like

        2. Narcissists tend to use past relationships to control the present one. So, they usually always have a dramatic story about an ex who did something which hurt them very badly, who they can never get over, and they use this story to make the person they are now with take extra special care in how they behave and what they do. You are constantly being compared to this ghost of another person. The message from the narcissist is basically – I am hurt deeply and I need you to be who I need you to be which is my saviour. So you end up censoring yourself to please the narcissist, do everything in your power to help heal their festering wound, make things better with your love, but it’s never enough, they find fault with everything, everything offends or hurts them, and they play the victim by being hyper-sensitive to everything.

          To them love is all about them, what they need and want. You have to love them, and constantly prove your love. Love with them is a quest, one which they set for you to accomplish. It’s all about testing your love for them, and if your love is special enough, then maybe they will give you their love – but they never do because they do not feel love, they think love. Their love is all in their minds.

          Narcissists are chasing after an ideal, and they trample everyone and everything underfoot to catch it, but it is always out of their reach.

          Don’t try and figure out a narcissist, they are illogical to people who are not narcissists. Don’t blame yourself either, that is a symptom of having been in a relationship with a narcissist.

          It’s good to use to experience to get to know yourself better, understand yourself more, because through relationships we learn about ourselves, grow and change. Be gentle with yourself, focus on the good which came out of a bad experience, don’t be hard on yourself for mistakes, imperfections, not seeing things, these are all natural and normal parts of being human and living life, it’s how we evolve.

          Take care of yourself 🙂

          Like

  21. You truly cannot describe what a narcissist does unless you have been a victim of one. When you try to explain their behavior, you end up sounding petty, oversensitive and crazy. It is like Chinese Water Torture – it is only little drops of water so what is the big deal, but over time it adds up to a million little drops of water relentlessly hitting your forehead over and over again. You would have to feel that pain in order to understand it. Thank you for sharing your story, it really helps all of us survivors. All we need to say to each other is “you know what they do” and all of us on here would shake or heads and just say “yes”. No more words are necessary – we all know the truth. There is a silent understanding among us.

    Like

    1. Thank you 🙂

      I agree about the silent understanding, it’s a wonderful acknowledgement.

      There is so much which is very complex about NPD, it is fraught with contradictions and paradoxes, trying to make sense of it and how it has affected you being on the receiving end of a narcissist’s delusions, illusions and confusion dumping is hard enough to explain to yourself, trying to explain it to those who are outside of it seems like an impossible task, especially if they’ve never experienced anything like it.

      Understanding usually needs to be coupled with personal experience, a personal and internal point of reference. If someone has never been in a relationship with a narcissist they don’t have that personal point of reference to give them understanding. They just think – why would anyone behave like that? – and their logic can’t deal with the illogical behaviour of a narcissist so they experience cognitive dissonance and dismiss that such a thing is possible.

      Fortunately (or unfortunately) there are a lot of narcissists in this world and therefore a lot more people have had relationships with a narcissist. So the issues associated with it are gaining more coverage, are being spoken about openly and analysed, and there is more information and understanding available as well as support and help.

      For those of us who’ve been dealing with it alone and in silence because we’ve never found a safe or supportive environment to discuss it, and have often been denied our reality in favour of the one created by the narcissist which is always more ‘image conscious’ and therefore appealing like a mirage, this is a change for the better. We are no longer alone in our suffering and no longer need to remain silent about it. We can break our silence and free ourselves from the past. Takes time, but our time is now it seems.

      The most important thing is to acknowledge our story to ourselves and tell ourselves – you’re not the crazy one. And now we have others like us to confirm it too, which is a very deeply moving experience.

      Thank you for sharing!

      Like

    1. Thank you.

      There are ways to diminish the strength of the magnet, and certain tactics to put them off bothering you once one has latched on, but it depends very much on the type of narcissist, on the relationship they have with you and on how they perceive your role in their drama.

      It is all about them and not about us, which makes it a difficult knot to untie.

      Like

  22. You are not crazy, not a brat and are to be commended highly for writing this post. Thank you. Thank you so much, because maybe your words will help others who have suffered through life with Narcissistic Parents (although calling them ‘parents’ is a bit of a stretch- for all intents and purposes, as you know, we are expected to pretty much raise ourselves). Every time I search for different writings, opinions and articles on this subject, everything that is found provides more grounding, comfort and reassurance. Wish that I’d known long ago what the truth was so that I could stop feeling like the ‘crazy one’.
    LizLily

    Like

    1. Thank you 😀

      What you said at the end… me too. In fact the children of Narcissists whom I have spoken with seem to have the same view too. We wish we’d known earlier because it took us so long to find our way out of the fog of confusion, but at least we finally did. I think it’s a gradual realisation of which we only get the full benefit when we are older, it just seems to be a part of the experience. Perhaps because to survive our childhood we had to suspend our logic and reasoning and buy into the cult of crazy… which turned us into the ‘crazy one’ so that they could pretend to be the ‘sane ones’. They always need a ‘bad guy’ to compare themselves with so that they can be the ‘good guy’, and point and say – look how great I am compared to that mess over there. Look what a genius I am compared to stupid. Look how beautiful I am compared to ugly, etc. They need us more than we need them because without us they don’t exist. Which I find is a nice twist 🙂

      So glad to hear you’re ‘coming to your senses’ and seeing your true self who was buried under their version of you. Feels good doesn’t it, who knew we could actually feel good about ourselves and not feel guilty about it as though we were betraying them.

      Keep doing what you’re doing, take care of yourself, trust yourself and be gentle with your beautiful soul!

      Thank you for sharing 😀

      Like

  23. Thank you for sharing. Reading your blog and the sharings posted by the others in your page helped me find the words to explain the darkness that surrounded my life with my parents. I could never find the right words before, so I never told any of my loved ones. Thank you for finding the right words in expressing the pain we feel as children of narcissistic parents. Through your words, I found my truth and my voice. I feel free and without hate. Thank you.

    Like

    1. Thank you 😀

      Sorry for any confusion. Comments by new commenters are held by WP for the blogger (until they log in to the blog) to approve them, just in case they’re spam which has escaped the spam filter or a troll. Once your comment has been approved, any further comments will appear immediately. Thank you so much for sharing. Please feel free to share more 🙂

      Finding the words to express what has been locked in silence is so important for healing and understanding. It’s taken me a long time to find my own words to express my story, as my side of the story was denied for a long time, first by others, then by me. Dealing with my own self-censorship was probably harder than dealing with that of others.

      Children of Narcissistic parents find themselves caught in a paradox. Figuring it out is a very challenging journey. However once we begin to do so, we find the gifts in the curse of being the children of NPD parents. It hurts, but that pain is an ally and not the enemy it seemed to be.

      I’m so glad you’ve found your truth and your voice. I know what that means. And I know you will build upon it and prosper, and blossom, and it is very beautiful to behold.

      Take care of yourself, be gentle with yourself, trust yourself, and share yourself because you’re an inspiration to those who have traveled a similar road in life 🙂

      Like

  24. Appreciate the follow. Was married to a woman with expert-confirmed narcissistic personality traits for 19 years. Book’s coming out in February. Test readers who’ve had dealings with narcissists have had minor epiphanies. themirrorbooks@gmail.com if you’re interested. No strings, no cost, no worries.

    Like

  25. >Very true! Just when you think it’s over…

    Yeah…. it’s amazing..
    There are some things you can use on your way out and to detach. At least that is my experience.

    – they cannot grasp the idea that you can live withouth them… that they are not the cause of your emotions. So instead of becoming emotional just go with the flow. always be relaxed. If they want to take a break do not react emotional..just say: yeah..perfect!! 😉 Then when they come back confront them with their own words: What? I thought you wanted a break!! 😉

    If they cancel a date right before just say: oh no problem..I forgot about it / had to do something else anyway!

    – they really think that they punish you when giving the silent treatment.. but it is a gift!!! Use it… give it back and whenever you see them show them how happy you are WITHOUT him! Makes them crazy!

    – Use reverse psychology if you want something.

    Use “detached amusement”…. don’t be too serious. Take things very lightly and easy.. laugh!!

    Like

    1. Good advice, thank you.

      It does depend a lot on your relationship with a Narcissist. Being the child of a Narcissist, or two of them (as is my case) changes the dynamic of the relationship. You’re their child ergo you are a piece of property which belongs to them and they own you and can do whatever they want with and to you. You owe them your life. Full stop.

      Also as a child you can’t just up and leave when you’ve had enough. If you try, Society kindly and authoritatively gives you back to your owners and hostage takers. And very few people believe the child of Narcissists about what those Narcissists are really like because they are very conscious of their public image and in public they are perfect parents and you’re very lucky to have them.

      When the Narcissists in your life are also family, it’s like a cult, and escaping it is not an option as far as they are concerned. And Society agrees with your Narcissist family members that you should honour and respect family even if they treat you like a thing, a toy to play games with, which when it breaks gets shouted at and punished for being a bad broken toy.

      Detachment is a useful tactic. Although most victims of Narcissists tend to be detached from themselves and attached to the Narcissist, so the scales of behaviour have to shift first, creating attachment to self and self preservation before detachment from the Narcissist and their ways can be activated.

      No contact or as little as possible is a good idea, it’s hard work though because Narcissists see it as a challenge, a fun game, and they don’t acknowledge it any other way.

      Thank you for sharing 😀

      Like

      1. I cannot grasp what it must be like to be the child of a narcissist and I admire those who have had the courage to escape… Incredible.. My experiences are nothing compared to that…

        > because they are very conscious of their public image

        Cowards they are. Care more about their image than their kids… amazing. My “narc” knew exactly what good mothers do… and yes, she would fake that when other people were around. She would talk so everyone would think: Wow….she is so involved with her kids…such a good mother she must be!! But behind close doors she abuses her kids beyond imagination..

        She could not stand I talked with other about her (she called it gossipping)… well there were 2 reasons why: 1. jealousy 2. she did not want me to find out things… they like to show different people different worlds…. afraid to be discovered!!

        > because Narcissists see it as a challenge, a fun game

        Yes but in the meantime they take it very serious!! (is that your opinion as well?)… they cannot afford to lose…. they are very vulnerable, cannot stand it if you leave, stay quiet, or (God forbid) don’t take their carefully acted drama seriously! There are a lot of ways to get to them I think and I always kept in mind that when she said something about me she was talking about herself actually (projection)

        My “Narc” talked about a past relation (the guy left her) and she was furious and said: I am the one deciding when it’s over!!!
        That was a big red flag for me (as there are many)… “Wow what a control freak, does it matter that much?” I thought at that moment.

        The other thing she said about that relation was: “He had me in his possessionr”…. Of course later I realized that she was the one trying to get power of people.

        I apologize for my English as it is not my native language.

        Like

        1. Your experiences are similar to what it’s like to be the child of Narcissists. Any relationship with a Narcissist has great impact and is painful and hard to deal with and leaves us devastated, confused and in need of sorting out our own minds and hearts to survive and get out of it.

          The only difference is that if you had a healthy family environment as a child, and never met a Narcissist before, and then suddenly found yourself as an adult in relationship with a Narcissist it can be a great shock to the system and it takes longer to realise that such people exist. You may doubt your own perception because of it. The delayed response to the behaviour of a Narcissist takes longer to process because you’re used to people being sane and human and logical in relationships.

          A child of Narcissists grew up in an insane and unhealthy environment and isn’t surprised that people behave that way. However they are surprised when people don’t behave that way, pleasantly surprised that not all people are Narcissists 😉

          They definitely take all their games very seriously and they tend to treat them as a matter of life and death even if it is a trivial manipulation compared to some of their bigger ones.

          And yes, they’re control freaks, but they tend to project that onto others and claim that others are trying to control them. As with everything they deny all responsibility.

          They lives are built on stories, myths and fairytales and soap operas, and endless drama where they are the hero or heroin and other people get given roles. When they first meet you, you get a special starring role as a co-hero, but later you get turned into a villain. They are warped children and behave that way. Stuck in childhood forever, getting angrier and angrier at the world which refuses to play with them in their reality.

          You have an excellent grasp of the Narcissist, especially the kind you had to deal with. I’m sorry you had to have such an experience, but I can see that it has given you a gift of strength, wisdom and insight which may mitigate the trauma and pain of it.

          And your English is excellent, you must know that! 😀

          Like

          1. > but I can see that it has given you a gift of strength, wisdom
            > and insight which may mitigate the trauma and pain of it.

            Absolutely. And I really cherish the learning experience…
            When you figure out the narcissist you can just draw out “normal” people so easily!! The way they mirror, manipulate, make you do things, etc etc.. very educational..and I must admit it can be helpful. I am more patient now, thinking before reacting.

            They are your perfect mirror, designed to find your weak point all the time.. Yes, I do have some admiration for their talents which they unfortunately use in a very devastating, self-destructing manner.

            And you just become so grateful for the “normal”, loving, people in your life!

            The danger being involved with the narcissist is that they can change your personality… you become a littlebit like them, trying to get even, trying to play the game, outgame them, trying to hurt them, etc. I guess the only way to win is not play it. When I was with her she was nice most of the time. But I had 25 strong indications she was cheating on me…still denying it!!!

            They lie so easily and will deny everything, even if you are 99% sure. When you are with them they are able to talk you into that 1% and make you believe it…. in the end you just think: if I let her longer fool me..I am fooling myself… It’s all about how your own relation with the truth is… If you don’t see it, you don’t want to see it.. (actually just like the narcissist)

            It evolves, she was very good in hiding her weak spots. After I figured out what made her angry or emotional…it didn’t work anymore… she just ignored it…. very smart… always silently punishing.. And the more defensive they get..the more sure you can be that you got it right…

            Like

            1. The thing about Narcissism is that is is a healthy human trait and phase of our development. Narcissists get stuck in that phase and don’t move through it and on to the next phase. It is the time when we as children become aware of our ego, our individuality, that there is a difference between ourselves and others. It’s when we form healthy boundaries and enjoy the fact that we are an ‘I’ a ‘me’ and have a ‘myself’. Narcissists don’t form those boundaries between self and other and their ego and identity gets merged with others which is why they never see other people as people, they see them as being a part of themselves. And they never develop a sense of self or identity. So they stay in the magical thinking of the child who plays games of pretend and can be whoever they want to be and say they are.

              We relate to them because we relate to that phase of development. We connect to them because we have Narcissistic traits. However they don’t relate to us because they are stuck there and we’ve moved on. They don’t connect to us because they can’t connect to us because they never separated from others. They don’t see their Narcissistic traits as traits, as traits which are a small part of a greater whole which encompasses many other types of traits, those Narcissistic traits are their identity, are the only traits they have (although they often have traits which merge with the Narcissistic ones which usually come from earlier phases of development). The phases and traits which comes afterwards are things they can only experience by proxy, and they copy them but don’t understand them. Thus they can only understand things like emotion and relationships and individuality from an intellectual standpoint. They play pretend.

              They also charm us because most of us have forgotten the joys of being a child who believed in magical thinking and they remind us of that. Their play of let’s pretend is very alluring and inviting and casts a spell over us… at first. But all games get tiresome if you play them without end.

              And so you’re very correct when you say that their powers, their Narcissism, can be used in a good and healthy way. Just not by them. Their positive impact is an accident, but it does happen. Many movements of personality – such as the power of positive thinking – are powered by Narcissists and benefit many people. The Narcissist was just trying to fix everyone and eradicate flaws. So we benefit from their disorder. But that choice is up to us.

              Kudos on seeing what you’ve seen and using it to inspire you life!

              Like

          2. >They definitely take all their games very seriously

            Oh yeah…. so much effort to keep worlds seperated…to pretend…amazing… Why not putting the same energy in become a littlebit more sincere and honest?

            The real problem with gaming back is simply that it is not my thing. It does not give satisfaction to hurt the person like that person is hurting others or me. Sure you can think: Huhuh… I got you now..hehehe!!! And then what? I hurt someone… We all know it does not make yourself feel good.. Hate or getting even is not good. I think you need to have some compassion. Know the person is disordered..detach.

            Like

            1. There are ways to outwit them without becoming like them and without hurting others or yourself. You’ve covered quite a few of those ways in your comments, like disengaging when they want to drag you into a drama, taking time out to pause and review. You have to understand their tactics, like you do, and then refuse to play their game or live life by their rules, but be aware that they will keep playing it whether you engage in it or not. They have infinite patience and are very consistent, because they don’t know how to do anything else so it’s all they can do, and they press play and rewind and repeat. Their behaviour follows a very precise pattern and cycle. Over and over again. They never change or evolve, not fundamentally.

              They don’t know how to be sincere and honest – even those who believe they are being sincere and honest – because they were taught to live a lie by those who created the wound which turned them into Narcissists. They did not choose to become a Narcissist, but once they are it is very difficult for them to move beyond it. Some do, but it’s very rare because it requires an enormous effort on their part which threatens their very existence.

              And these days admitting you’re a Narcissist, to yourself or anyone else, with so much hate aimed at them, would anyone want to? It’s a bind. The availability now of information for those who have been in a relationship with a Narcissist is excellent for those trying to recover and heal from such a relationship, but for those who are Narcissists and may have a moment of wanting knowing it and seeing it and maybe even wanting to really do something about it… They’re trapped by the very thing they’re already trapped in.

              Like

      2. I was interested in your comment about children of narcissists being detached from themselves. I neve realized that, but I must be in that zone of self realization. My counselor says my Mom is a sadistic narcissist. The counselor is shocked by the offensive things my mom and sister say that should feel like a knife in my heart, but I’m so used to this talk that I don’t even realize how mean they are. Now, I’m walking a fine line between learning how to handle them, and wanting to free myself from their issues and move forward with my life. I’m on the verge on freedom and experiencing the benefit of tipping the scales in my favor. When I refuse to indulge them, they get less threatening, more pleasant. The Lord is leading me through this journey. I don’t plan to stay in the darkness. I need to start living MY life without their needs taking priority. Leaving the drama and the nonsense behind. I know it’s worth it! Detaching from drama, getting comfortable with peace.

        Like

        1. When you grow up with Narcissists your main aim is to survive the endless and constant abuse, much of which is very subtle, and since they spend a lot of time and effort picking on you, criticising you, undermining you, stealing things you care about, destroying what is yours, and so on, you detach from yourself, it’s happening to you but it’s not happening to you.

          What they are seeking to do is to control you thus control whatever it is that you represent to them – and because they don’t have a boundary between you and them and they are very invasive – and a child of a Narcissist is seen as being the property of the Narcissist – you kind of end up leaving your body to save yourself. You’re sort of there but not there, floating slightly out of your body.

          This enables you to put up with what is happening, what they are saying and doing, without it touching the core of your self. It is also a reflection of how they treat you, you’re there but not there. You exist but only when it suits them, for them.

          It sounds like you have found a very good counselor. Someone who is listening to you and is believing you, therefore able to understand and support your healing. So many people do not believe children of Narcissists when they explain what their parent or parents have said and done, because they don’t want to believe that such things are possible. And because Narcissists are very good at covering their tracks, appearing sane and making their victims seem like the crazy ones.

          Glad to hear you’re on your way to freeing your self and better able to deal with the Narcissists in your life. Kepp on course, and stay focused on yourself, attached to yourself and doing what you need to do for you.

          Like

        2. I always joked that my parents are soul-mates. As it turns out, both of them are narcissists. My mother was the worst though. Both my parents relished in pointing out to me that since I’m the child of their hated spouse, I would eventually turn out to be like my mother or father. And that it was inevitable. This always scared me and I successfully avoided all romantic relationships. It was only now (30 yrs. old) that I started wanting and praying for a husband (and a family of my own). God healed me when He reminded me that I am more than my parents’ daughter. I am God’s child and I was made in His likeness. It is a constant struggle but I choose to forgive my parents everyday. When we hate, it’s just another form of control we give them. Plus, it leads us from having a healthy and drama-free life. I pray that God completely heal your heart and fill it with love and joy. God bless

          Like

          1. This blog has been so helpful. I have forgiven. It’s not hard, since I was trained from an early age to forgive bad behavior, and even consider it to be a form of love. I do have to fight bitterness from time to time. It seems almost impossible to believe that my mother wouldn’t realize the pleasure she took in being hurtful. But, at age 48, I now finally understand the damage that she did. I can also witness her continuation with no seeming idea of what she is doing. We recently had a natural disaster in our area. She called to see how we were , after I sent a note saying we were fine. She commented that she wondered what the people in my town had done that would make God want to punish us this way. She is not a strong God person, this comment was an attack on my faith. In the past I wouldn’t even have seen it as an insult, now I’m glad for the clarity. I guess the challenge is working through three unsafe relationships at once, now that I’m aware. My sister will play me off my mother, but she is the same as my mom. And, a NPD friend has tried much manipulation to get me back in her good graces. She would disapprove of my other friends and choices on a regular basis, and it forced me to isolate myself in order to be her friend. Finally, during a period of disapproval and silence, I moved on quietly, rather than asking her what I did wrong. She has tried many ways to get me to listen to her thoughts. She says she feels misunderstood and is grieving our friendship. I now know what was wrong there, too. I have plenty of healthy relationships, but it’s these unhealthy ones that used most of my emotion. I’m staying strong, journaling, praying, being intentional about learning more about NPD, but not delving into it too much. I meet with the counselor, get assurance that I’m not being ‘mean,” and I try to move forward. The counselor gets confused about why I can fear these people at times but, I do. At times I think it may have been easier to be in denial. It’s hard to come face to face with the truth of this abuse. But it has been a great path to freedom. My mother is getting old, and she is getting worse. It is helpful not to take her personally, and not be affected by her moods, paranoia, and demands. And now, I’m immune to the judgement of my sister also. And, I even told my former friend that our friendship that she is grieving was never healthy anyhow. That made her mad again, so she’s ignoring me when she sees me again. I’m taking this day by day and finding greater blessings in my ability to really appreciate finding myself without their harsh judgements and demands. I’m just sorry it took so long. Now that I see clearly, or more clearly, it’s hard to believe that I’d was so blind before.

            Like

            1. Your personal power is emerging strongly in your life, which is wonderful to experience and behold. And because you’ve witnessed what abuse of personal power can do, you are able to use the pain as inspiration, for yourself and for others with whom you share your story and yourself, and your path is one of noble strength and awareness.

              Those with NPD are very clever, but also very stupid. In the end they always create the very thing they fear the most – being abandoned. They try to make us believe that we can’t live without them because the truth is they can’t live without us, because they need us to confirm to them that they exist and are important. And it’s because they know they need us more than we need them that they are so nasty because it drives them crazy to not be in control of the relationship and life. Control is their drug of choice, it makes them feel powerful, but it’s superficial, under that lies someone who feels powerless and is terrified of people and life. Everything about them is a contradiction. They are everything which they are not. Which is why their words and actions rarely go together. They say they love you but everything they do informs you otherwise.

              I think we reach a prime point in our journey through life when we move into our 40’s and 50’s, it’s as though everything in our past comes together and forms a clearer and cohesive picture. Which you’ve expressed beautifully in your comment. Your eyes are open and seeing, and learning from what you are seeing, and that is transforming your experience of your life and the people who have been and are in it.

              Those with NPD help us to appreciate the healthy relationships we have… they are negative muses who can have positive ripples, it just takes a while to understand it, and it helps to distance ourselves from them (which often entails using their behaviour against them by getting them to distance themselves from us).

              The only person whose judgment, opinion, demands and thoughts about you that matter are your own because they are the creators of your experience. I’m glad that you have a good counselor to encourage you to see the beauty and love within you and to express it to yourself with self-respect. Very important when recovering from the damage those with NPD cause, especially a mother with NPD.

              The fear which your counselor finds hard to grasp is a subtle and pervasive kind buried in the subconscious and connected to the repeated trauma of abuse, those who have been in a relationship with someone with NPD usually have PTSD. Your counselor should know that. If your counselor does not have personal experience of feeling that particular type of fear, then like with anything else which has no personal reference point, it is an abstract concept rather than living knowledge and is harder to understand. If you want to help your counselor to understand ask them if they have a phobia, one which causes them great anxiety which overrides the rational mind, it’s a similar type of fear, the energy signature and how it works.

              The truth does indeed set you free, but it hurts like hell because you’re breaking the shell of denial which has enclosed and imprisoned you in suffocating silence, it’s worth it, and the pain will subside as your freedom increases, because it is the type of pain which is an ally and not an enemy – it’s telling you where it hurts and how to heal it.

              Keep doing what you are doing, trust yourself, trust the process, and be gentle with yourself, kind and compassionate, you’re giving birth to yourself and your life, it’s a beautiful experience and the suffering is one of being reborn as yourself shedding the skins other people have tried to make you wear.

              Take good care of yourself, you’re worth it 🙂

              Like

  26. Ursula you are amazing “we go insane by trying to be someone else, by trying to please others, and society, by trying to win approval and acceptance and to win the love of others”. Sanity is about accepting all of us… The narcissist makes us feel that we are wrong or bad simply for being human, flawed and vulnerable. And I think going mad or insane may be a recipe for awakening to another deeper level of ourselves beyond those restrictions imposed or assumed from the culture, media, schooling and parents (im meaning the insanity we have to go through and face as we reach rock bottom and enter on our healing). The attitude you now have don’t you think its one that comes when all the hurt is burned away… and you’ve gone through that dark fire to find the baseline..the indestructible core of you… once you have that.. no one can take it away…for a parent to blame a child…. well its just wrong…..hopefully the child wakes up, even if its not until 50 (in my case) or 60 or even later… one day of freedom is worth it…

    Like

    1. Yes, the core is exactly the term which I use because that’s how it feels inside. Narcissists don’t have that core. In theory they could find it and have one, but they don’t have the ‘insane’ amounts of courage it takes to get to it. They don’t have the courage to be vulnerable and fragile, open to the pain of life. They build an invulnerable and unbreakable fortress around themselves and become trapped there, slowly mummifying themselves.

      Funny thing is I watched an episode of Farscape (an old and very humourous sci-fi series) last night which dealt with this concept. Of having to pass through our own insanity, let it rise from the depths and engulf us, embrace it and work with it until we untangle ourselves from the knots of it. We don’t lose the pain, we learn to work with it, harness the energy of it and it becomes an ally rather than an enemy within. Darkness only appears dark to those afraid to leave brightness of the light. Something like that.

      Have you explored the mythology of the crone? When I hit 40 I had a strange experience, nothing weird or otherworldly, just a dawning awareness that there was power in aging, a power only available to those who allow themselves to age (if that makes sense). A fiercely liberating power. So, I actually think that we are really only ready to wake up to our core self, who we really are and what that means for us and for our part in the world, when we are older. Our younger years are a training ground where we are immersed in experiences and that is how it must be, detachment only comes when we pass through the initiating ceremony of a mid-life crisis. When we face our mortality and no longer believe we can outsmart it, and thus we accept it and don’t fear it, and this allows us to finally accept our lives as they are which frees us up to live here and now fully present. When our life experiences can viewed as a series of events leading us to where we are now, and we see the value of each experience and realise things could not have gone any other way, that we took the path we had to take to reach this point where we are. When we can see that every life of another who touched ours had a part to play in shaping us. We can see how connected everything and everyone is, and we are a part of the whole as well as being a whole within the whole – each drop in the ocean is the ocean itself as well as being a part of the greater ocean. Each drop is of value.

      And we have a mythological guide to the process, and I think for women it lies with the Triple Goddess of Paganism – the maiden, the mother and the crone. I said that recently to a female friend who is older than me and she didn’t like the term ‘crone’. Some people prefer Hekate/Hecate. I prefer the word ‘crone’. I like to cut to the chase and not mollycoddle myself.

      And if that sounds crazy, then I know I am being true to myself 😉

      Like

  27. Thank you for writing this. It is on point with my experience. I have to cut out some people I care about – my mother, a sister, a friend….I’ve finally realized that I am a target and they are narcissists. I’m worn and weary. The are patient and persistent. I am made to look like the bad guy to everyone. At times I think it would be easier to go along with them. It affects innocent people, like my children, who can’t see their cousins as much. Three brothers will think I’m mean. I won’t defend myself, because it won’t matter. They will listen the those who have always complained about me. I’m sad and tired of this and they are wearing me out with all the new angles and games. It feels like there is no healthy escape.

    Like

    1. Thank you.

      When the Narcissists in your life are also family, any decision which you make is a very tough one. Society does not offer that much support to those who go against family. “Your family loves you” is a mantra Society repeats over and over, which for those who have family members who are Narcissists is like the prison cell of censored silence getting smaller every time you allow the mantra to override your instincts and your truth, you know it’s not true that the Narcissist members of your family love you because those with NPD don’t know how to love, but other people don’t allow you to voice your truth because it upsets their truth, so you’re trapped and you feel very alone. Narcissists like to isolate their victims. And family members who are Narcissists use Society to stop us from leaving the fold. We’re told that we have to accept our family the way they are and love them no matter what they do to us. That is wrong. Abuse, no matter how subtle, is never right. Just because other people can’t see it does not mean that it is not there. In fact many choose to not see it, and that makes it worse.

      People like to tell others how to live their lives, but only the person living their own life knows what they have experienced and what is right for them. And you do know what is right for you, so trust yourself and grit your teeth and do it. You’ll see how much strength you have once you stop fighting Narcissists (even passively) and start fighting for your right to live your life your way. When we are at our most weary and weakest is when we often find our true strength and our will to really live life on our own terms.

      Your life is yours, it belongs to no one else, especially not the Narcissists. They want your life because they don’t like their own.

      Healthy escape from the Narcissists in your life entails making very tough decisions to protect yourself and sticking to those decisions even when you doubt yourself. And Narcissists are very good at getting people to doubt themselves, and they like to recruit an army of supporters to prove how right they are and how wrong you are. Like you said they have lots of patience and persistence, so you have to be very stubborn when dealing with them. The first stages of freeing yourself will be the hardest, there is no easy option. Defending yourself relies on building a very solid boundary between you and them, so that nothing they do or say affects you enough for you to give in to their version of reality again. You’re going to have to tap into all of your primal urge to survive and be free. The simplest way to put it is that you have to say ‘Yes’ to yourself and ‘No’ to them, no matter what. Use whatever inner resources you have left to support yourself in your bid for freedom. For me that was rage, because when I’m exhausted that tends to be the one thing that is left, it’s like an inner flame that won’t go out even when all the other lights within are out. It’s the sort of rage which is connected to the primal will to survive and is life-affirming.

      Your children may find your choice difficult because they can’t see their cousins, but in the long run they will benefit from your choice, because you will be happier and that will affect them in a good way. So, trust yourself and know that you can do it and need to do it, because you’re worth it.

      I know the being the bad guy thing well. The good versus bad dynamic is a constant one in the version of reality of a Narcissist. They live in a land of black or white and never the twain shall meet. The world is split in two for them. The good/bad thing actually reveals one of their weak spots. They need you to be bad so that they can be good, they are desperate to appear good, one of their greatest fears is that they are bad. There is power in being comfortable with being the villain, especially when dealing with Narcissists. They need you more than you need them. You can use their tactics against them to free yourself from the web in which they’ve trapped you. That web is what is draining your energy, because you’re caught in their version of reality and you’re trying to make sense out of it, and it can’t be done because their version of reality is nonsense, an endless series of contradictions, plays of opposites, which confuse the mind. When the mind is confused it tries to fight its way through the confusion and that fighting creates the kind of exhaustion which drains energy from every part of your being. The only way to cut through the confusion is to cut the Narcissist out of your life.

      Take care of yourself, and I mean that literally.

      Like

      1. Thank you. It is a tremendous relief to connect with your words and ideas. I’ve been lost and confused. I only recently realized that I’m dealing with narcissists. I thought they were people who loved me and I was always explaining myself, apologizing for nonsense and trying to keep them happy. I was always confused about why nothing ever seemed to be enough. I always fell for their attempts to pull me back in once i couldn’t take anymore. I listened to them tell me why I’m always to blame, and I’d never point out inconsistencies in their thinking, as I knew that would make things worse. I listened to my own condemnation, I waited out silent treatments, only to learn why I deserved it and expressed appreciation for the return to normal communications. And, since I don’t know others who go through this, I’ve always believed I was the problem. Why would they pour so much effort into getting me to do what they want if they didn’t care about me-that was how I frequently excused their behavior. I have brothers that I will miss greatly. But, I can’t continue being a pawn now that my eyes have been opened. (A counselor has worked hard to get me to see the truth here.) I see no point in discussing the determination to escape their wrath because every discussion turns nonsensical and is pointless. My sister and friend are experts at trying to spin things to make it look like everything is for my benefit. My Mother just ignores me when she isn’t getting what she is demanding. My sister tries to explain why I might have asked for the jus ferment. She does it all in a very underhanded way, and I’ve always listened and thanked her for the insight. I feel like a fool, catering to these people. I want to move on but don’t know how to escape. They won’t respect any boundaries. They will try harder. I just want some peace. I feel that it will come, but will be accompanied by sadness and regret. I will re read your response. You said so much that is helpful. I am very grateful. Thank you.

        Like

        1. Just trust yourself, your are stronger and wiser than you know, and you are finding that out. That is a gift in all of this. To see the beauty, the strength and wisdom in yourself through all the ugly experiences.

          It sounds like you have a great counselor, which is rare and valuable.

          It took me a while to understand many things, I’m still working on it all, so give yourself time, be gentle with yourself, try not to judge yourself. If you find yourself judging yourself, don’t judge yourself for it. It happens. Allow yourself to make mistakes. Be kind with yourself. You have a very open heart, that’s a good thing even if it leaves you open to bad things, it is a very good thing to have. A beautiful talent and an incredible strength. You have deep compassion, it has many benefits as well as making you prone to excusing the behaviour of others, learn to see that as a gift, and then use it in a way which is beneficial to you. You have the ability to see what others can’t and understand and deeply connect. So, the things you may perceive as weaknesses are your strengths, you just need to work with them a bit and readjust how you use them and view them.

          You are on the right path, flow with it, everything will make sense to you eventually. You’ll know why you have lived and experienced the life you have and you will see the gift in the curse and see your beauty and your gifts. Trust yourself. What that means is simply knowing that you know what you are doing even when you don’t. That might sound strange. However I think you may know what I mean by it. Read your own words, see the wisdom in them.

          Don’t fear the pain, it is the route to freedom. Narcissists use that to keep us trapped, but they fear it more than we do. In all their seeming strength lies their weakness. They are afraid of you, you know all their secrets, use it.

          You are not alone.

          Like

          1. Thank you so much. Your words have brought me some assurance and peace. This is a very isolating process – withdrawing from people who have been a part of my life for many years. Doing it without any explanation. It feels mean and harsh and unfair. In an odd way, it feels like I am becoming more like they are, untrusting and manipulative. So, I remind myself that this is for my sanity and no explanation would satisfy or change or make the situation easier. I have even lied to avoid a situation that would put me in the middle of another drama. I am upset that it was my only way to avoid a storm. But, I feel really fragile, and unprepared for more conversation about why I need to conform to their unreasonable demands. It was safer just to give an excuse and move on. I still feel the judgment looming, even though it is unspoken, and maybe isn’t even there. I feel the weight of aging parents who might not be around for many more years, as I am closing a door. I am recalling good memories and trying to push away the guilt that has always made me conform to their version of myself. I know this will pass. I am faithful and believe this is the right time for me to make this change.

            Your words are filled with hope, so kind, and patient. You have an amazing gift to come alongside and encourage. I’m used to encouragement accompanied with blame. You simply encourage. It is a wonderful gift. Thank you so much. I needed this forum and I didn’t even know it. So grateful.

            Like

            1. Hi, You shared insight that I find interesting, but I don’t really understand. Can you explain further?
              Here it is:
              “There is power in being comfortable with being the villain, especially when dealing with Narcissists. They need you more than you need them. You can use their tactics against them to free yourself from the web in which they’ve trapped you. ”

              Also, you mention that they fear our freedom more than we do. I think I’m at the beginning of understanding that. But, it’s complex. My Mom is so quick and easy to dismiss and ignore and hold a grudge for years. Doesn’t feel like she needs anything except to have a reason to be angry with people who are not meeting her demands. My sister and friend are a little different. They will shut me out, then look for constant reassurance that I value them. The reassurance comes through listening to hours of their ‘thoughts’ on a topic, usually with ‘gentle’ advice on how I could handle things better. It’s when I don’t listen, which is a new thing, that I actually see their fear coming through. I’ve always listened before, so I’ve never realized their desperation in being heard, or their fear of being ‘misunderstood.’ I am exhausted by them, and am so much more motivated to protect myself than I am to ‘understand’ anything about them. I think it’s my exhaustion and lack of patience that is motivating me now.

              Anyhow, your clarifying statements on the quote above will be really helpful. Thank you.

              Like

              1. There is power in being comfortable with being the villain – this refers to the fact that Narcissists often use our kindness and honourable intentions against us to manipulate us. They accuse us of being bad and this causes us to prove to them that we are not bad, and we go out of our way to show them how good we are by being extra good towards them, They on the other hand increase the bad stuff they do and say to us because the nicer we are to them the more they test our niceness. They do not believe in niceness, because when they do it, it is fake and requires a lot of effort on their part, so they think we are like they are. So accepting their label that you are bad gives you a freeing power as you are no longer caught in the trap of trying to prove to them that they are wrong about you, and can use that energy for yourself. Doing this will help you to conserve your energy.

                They need you more than you need them – is a basic of relationships with Narcissists. The opposite of what they say and do is usually true. They often impress upon you how much you need then, how you are nothing without them, and things like that, but the truth is they need you because without your attention focused on them, without you feeding them energy, they do not know if they exist or not and they have no sense of self.

                You can use their tactics against them to free yourself from the web in which they’ve trapped you – The saying – if you can’t beat them join them – applies to dealing with Narcissists, but modified slightly. You’re not becoming a Narcissist, what you’re doing is learning to speak in a language they understand. If you want them to stop messing with you and your life and hear that clearly, then you can’t say it in your language of please respect me. They don’t get that at all. They really do not understand non-Narcissists. They can’t. So, like I said about lies in my other reply, Narcissists lie all the time, they think everyone does, they think honest people are crazy and stupid and don’t really exist. It’s a warped mind you’re dealing with so you have to speak in warped mind speak. Lying to a Narcissist is not lying. This is a difficult tactic for non-Narcissists because you have to break some of your own rules of being a good person, but with Narcissist these rules don’t apply.

                If you need me to expand I will, let me know. Hope this helps.

                Remember your goal and stick to it stubbornly, and do what you have to do to free yourself.

                Like

            2. Trust what you are doing for yourself. I know at times it can be very difficult because you’re used to being caring because you genuinely care, and feeling that what you’re doing now to be kind to yourself is cruel to others can be very challenging, but when dealing with Narcissists this is necessary. You’re strengthening your muscles, so give yourself time.

              Never explain anything to a Narcissist, because this is what they demand, and they don’t want to understand anything, they just want you to give them your time and energy, your attention is food to them and makes them feel important, which is what you give them and do when you take the time and energy to explain yourself to them.

              The guilt will pass. You feel it anyway, Narcissists always make people feel guilty about everything, so you might as well feel it because you’re doing something for yourself, than feel it because you’ve done everything for them, sacrificing yourself to them and your needs for their needs, and they still make you feel bad about it. You can never do enough or be enough for them, because they are seeking something only they can give themselves and they don’t know how to do that. So they take their frustration at themselves out on you. You’ve had enough, and now you’re claiming your life for yourself.

              This is a difficult process, even more so when the Narcissists are family. But it’s them or you.

              Don’t worry about lying to them, they never worry about lying to you. You have to thicken your skin just when dealing with them, you can be soft when dealing with those who respect you. Lying to a Narcissist is different from normal lying and from lying to a non-Narcissist. Narcissists live in a reality made of lies, so you’re now talking to them in their own language. That’s all. It does not make you any less of the wonderful person you know you are. The rules are different in the world created by Narcissists.

              You won’t become a Narcissist by using their tactics to free yourself from them. Don’t worry. Your goal is to free yourself so that you can be yourself fully and live your life on your terms.

              Like

              1. Please share your thoughts on this. I am a married woman with children. I have a ‘friend’ who must be a narcissist. At first, it was so nice to have her friendship. She went out of her way to make me feel special. Then, little by little, she started to ‘suggest’ that there were issues with everything in my life that didn’t have to do with her (an existing close friend, my church, my husband, my book club….). At first, I’d thank her for her wise feedback, and I’d believe her input. Then, she started to try and influence my child’s relationships in the same way. Naive as I am, I didn’t question her motives. She’d eventually dismiss me, give me nasty looks, the silent treatment….request to be heard, which led to hours of me assuring her that I didnt try and hurt her – nonsensical discussions. Eventually, I’d had enough, and during one of her silent dismissive phases, I let things be. I moved on. After a few months, she started contact. First, to insinuate that I’d messed something up, then to act as though she missed me, then to suggest an open discussion, then some gifts. I was friendly, but didn’t accept any responsibility, and refused to have detailed discussions. She is persistent in wanting to know why I refuse to be open – why am I so resistant – she feels so misunderstood. I have not relented. I’ve met a few times for lunch, but keep it to pleasantries. I recently got angry at her suggestion that ‘I’ am overprotective of myself and closed. I have been so tolerant and patient, and part of me just wants to shout it. But, I believe any discussion is giving in, giving her exactly what she wants. I don’t believe she’ll hear a word I say – she only wants an audience in me to hear whatever the trivial incident was that led to her last silence. I want to say that it’s a continual nonstop churning wheel of issues and the conversation never changes. I’m close to giving her the chance to talk only because I want to be heard. My gut tells me it’s a mistake. I’m always the one who keeps quiet because I don’t have the desire to hurt anyone. I listen and listen as I’m accused of nonsense and they get things off their chest. I don’t want to listen anymore to those I believe don’t hear. Your thoughts? Am I off base here? I’ve only recently realized what narcissist means, and this awareness has been a great answer, but also a little overwhelming.

                Like

                1. She definitely sounds like a Narcissist. It can be difficult sometimes to be certain if someone is or isn’t because so much of what a Narcissist does and says seems normal because they are focused on appearing that way, they always have a feeling that people are watching them so they play to an audience. The behaviour you describe follows the pattern of a Narcissist.

                  The way I know that I’m dealing with a Narcissist is based on how I feel after interacting with them. It’s always the same feeling even if I’m with a different Narcissist. Whereas with people who aren’t Narcissists, the feeling is always different depending on the person.

                  With a Narcissist I tend to feel many of the feelings you described:

                  1/ Feeling censored – because they’re not listening – because they are hyper sensitive and you have been made responsible for looking after their fragile egos – everything you say or do seems to hurt them – you don’t want to answer their probing questions because you know they only want the answer so they can use it against you – they can use it as another excuse for being hurt by you and then you have to apologise for the millionth time – you get so stressed out around them you’re afraid of what you’ll say to them in a moment of extreme frustration – you’re so angry you have to bite your tongue or you’ll tell them exactly how you feel about them and their nonsense.

                  The list goes on. Censorship – forcing their victim into willing silence – is one of the main objectives of a Narcissist. Mostly they do this subconsciously and don’t know that that is what they’re doing. What they are after is for you to tell them what they want to hear and to filter out what they don’t want to hear. What they don’t want is for you to go physically silent on them, because then they can’t get the ‘Narcissistic Supply’ they need from you. So if you go physically silent they start badgering you, this usually pushes you further into silence, and they push and poke and prod you until you lose your temper or control of your emotions. That outburst is what they are after because it contains within it all the Narcissistic Supply you’ve been withholding from them with your silence and they can feed off of it for a long time. They can play the victim because you shouted at them and hurt their feelings, they can tell the story of this drama to all their other ‘friends’ and tell people what a ‘baddie’ you are and poor them they were only trying to help you because they are so ‘good’ and they get lots of sympathy which also is Narcissistic Supply for them.

                  But you know all of this because you grew up with it. That’s why you know this person is exactly who you think she is. The only difference is that now you have a label for this type of person and their behaviour – a Narcissist – therefore you have confirmation that you’re not the one who is crazy or bad or wrong, you’re fine as you are, you are not the problem, they are. So keep studying Narcissistic Personality Disorder and gathering information on the condition and on how to deal with people who have it. The awareness you have now is your best weapon against them and a powerful source of healing and help for you, so build upon it.

                  There are some very good links on this very good blog about Narcissists and how to heal yourself from the effects their behaviour has on you: http://letmereach.com/2013/12/13/the-narcissist-slayer-blog-award-nominations/

                  This is also a good resource of information with links to many articles: http://www.scoop.it/t/victims-of-narcissist-npd-sociopaths-help-guide

                  If you’re on Facebook, this is a Community page which offers support and info: https://www.facebook.com/pages/After-Narcissistic-Abuse-There-is-Light-Life-Love/114835348601442

                  It is overwhelming, but you are ready to deal with that kind of overwhelming because you’ve reached that point of having had enough of dealing with the kind of overwhelming that Narcissists do and are. You’ve had enough of hurting yourself so that the Narcissists in your life don’t get hurt – but everything hurts a Narcissist because they live in a world of permanent pain which they generously give to others – so it’s time to stop hurting yourself and if the Narcissist gets hurt, that is not your problem – it never was but they made it your problem – it’s their problem. You know this. Trust your instincts and intuition, trust yourself.

                  Like

                  1. > Mostly they do this subconsciously

                    This is one of the biggest mistakes we (as empaths) can make..

                    I think they are conscious (which makes it so sad and bad!).
                    I had a narcissist in my life and I heared how she treated someone on the phone. She explained me in detail she was doing that on purpose…etc.. I was thinking oh my God… you’re evil…

                    When you’re onto them they will use it and say: Yeah.. I use people, I break people, I can’t help it so just take me the way I am…

                    Right…. be aware… they know what they are doing…. 😦

                    Just make up a hypothetical story..and then ask what to do… should I lie or not? They will explain in detail and proudly how to lie and deceive…

                    Like

                    1. I agree some are conscious of what they are doing. However some are not. It does depend on the individual Narcissist, they are not all the same person, they are different people with the same disorder. Also NPD overlaps with other disorders – thus you have Borderline Narcissists, Sociopathic Narcissists, Histrionic Narcissists, and so on. There are also what are known as Malignant Narcissists and Inverted Narcissists. The type of NPD a person develops depends on the circumstances, society and people in their formative years which caused the Narcissistic wound in the child. There are also cultural and gender factors which come into play as to how, once the wound has been created, the NPD evolves. Narcissist are not born with NPD.

                      My father was very conscious of much of what he did – thus he was more like the person you describe. My mother was completely oblivious to what she did and does – her Narcissistic behaviour is subconscious – she thinks she is genuinely kind and caring and that she doesn’t have a manipulative bone in her body.

                      There’s a TV series – Enlightened – with Laura Dern, and the character she plays is a Narcissist who is operating from a subconscious Narcissism. She thinks she’s a good person and everyone else is the problem. It’s a very clever portrayal, more so because the main character is aware that she may have behaved badly in the past and now that she is enlightened she is making amends by behaving even worse but she thinks she’s doing good and that everyone else is in need of saving from themselves like she was saved.

                      I know one subconscious Narcissist who thinks they’re an empath. This person discards people because they are negative and they can’t be around them because they are so sensitive due to their advance empath ability and the slightest negative emotion picked up from someone else affects them and overwhelms them. The emotions they pick up from others are their own negative emotions which they disassociate themselves from and project into others. They actually have no sense of what others are actually feeling, but you can’t argue with them because they know others better than others know themselves because they’re an empath. They use their empath label to censor others.

                      Ultimately it doesn’t matter if a Narcissist is conscious or not of what they do and say and how it affects others, what matters is that we are conscious about it. However realising the difference between whether the Narcissist you are dealing with is consciously or subconsciously doing/saying what they are doing/saying is useful to know for your own benefit as it changes slightly the manner in which you deal with them.

                      Like

  28. Thank you again, talking to you is wonderful and I now know im not going mad. I will ponder on all this as I feel the path I am following is correct I dont want to blame, or stay stuck in hurt, I want to live with this powerful knowledge. It is a gift. Big hug to you

    Like

    1. Thank you 😀

      The most important relationship in your life is the one you have with yourself, get to know yourself like a friend and give yourself the support and love you need. The relationship which you have with yourself influences the relationships you have with others. Be gentle, kind and compassionate with yourself, and trust that you are guiding yourself where you need to be and go.

      Blame and hurt need to be allowed expression, so they can be released and understood. They often have a gift hidden inside of them. Find a constructive way to do it which will allow the feelings contained within them to empower you.

      Don’t worry about the feeling of going mad, it comes with being human and experiencing life, and it is often stronger when we are close to an insight which transforms our perspective on ourselves and our life. The going mad part comes from a conflict between two perspectives which seems to tear us apart, often between an old way and a new way of viewing reality. The old way is the ground beneath our feet and we thought it was solid, the new way causes an earthquake and it feels like the ground beneath our feet is crumbling and we’re just going to plummet into a dark abyss and be lost. We will always land on our feet and be fine because rather than being lost we find ourselves.

      Take care of yourself.

      Like

    1. What makes you think I’m sane 😉

      The thing which does the most damage to people’s sanity is the belief that who we are as we are is wrong somehow and that we have to change who we are to be loved and accepted. We go insane by trying to be someone else, by trying to please others, and society, by trying to win approval and acceptance and to win the love of others. The problem is others don’t know what they want from us really, they think they do, but when they get it, it’s not right either. The finish line is always moving. And others are having the same issues that we are having, others are seeking approval and love from us, and everything becomes confusing and complicated. So we go crazy trying to figure it out.

      Sanity is about accepting yourself exactly as you are, including the things which you may hate about yourself, and which others may hate about you. Just being. Being yourself and accepting and loving yourself, warts and all.

      Sanity is about accepting who you are as is. Once you get a sense of that for yourself, then you can accept others as they are as is.

      Having a sense of humour about how insane life is, and how crazy humans are also helps. Sanity is an illusion, so is insanity, however you can feel a little more sane just by shrugging and going with the flow of this weird planet and its strange inhabitants.

      Like

      1. Thank you, after having come face to face with myself this year, and looking deep into why I find the same person attractive again, again, i dont not know how to find a healthy person attractive. The sad thing too that looking into my history, my mother grand mother and great grand mother have all been through this abuse, we all been taught that being abused by men is ok. I am determined to change , I guess now I have to managed my self, like breaking an addiction. Have you looked into your parents history, is this something thats passed down?

        Like

        1. You’ve hit upon a very important and powerful point. We do inherit the wounds of our ancestors. One of my favourite poems is – This Be The Verse by Philip Larkin – because he shows in his words how issues are passed on from generation to generation. These issues need a resolution or we pass them on for someone else, usually our children, to resolve them. That’s why our parents passed them on to us, they couldn’t resolve them, so it’s up to us. But how to resolve something which started many years before we were born?

          I have explored what I know about my parents’ history in an effort to understand them. As bad as they were to me, I realise they are just playing out a scenario which was passed onto them. They were wounded as children and could not understand their wounds so they passed them on to me, hoping subconsciously that I would heal and redeem them.

          I know this because I explored their childhoods. And I explored their parents. But going back in time is difficult because the information becomes vaguer and vaguer, and there are societal pressures and cultural customs to take into account.

          My Mother’s mother died when my mother was a teenager. This had a huge impact on my mother and in a weird way my mother thought that I was a reincarnation of her mother. She treated me as though I was her mother. Which was intensely weird. This complicated the mother/child relationship. My father’s father died before I was born, and his mother, whom I did meet very briefly, had a strong impact on him, not a good one. It’s very complicated.

          My legacy is the reverse of yours. The women on both sides of my parents’ lineage were the strong ones. The men were the ones who were abused by the women. It can happen and it is as ugly as when it is the other way around. It’s sexual equality but a not so good side of it. A balance must be reached where both sides are respected, and both genders are valued equally. It is very hard to do. We are, here and now, dealing with many years, years beyond our own life span, of conditioning and influence. Not just personal, but societal and cultural. The power to change the pattern is in our hands, but it can be too much for us to handle, as we have our own personal issues too. But in dealing with our personal issues lies the secret of releasing the issues we have inherited.

          So, by dealing with how you relate to yourself, your relationship with yourself, you will resolve much of how you relate to others, both male and female. You have the power, you just have to learn how to use it so that it doesn’t hurt you, and doesn’t hurt others, both male and female. You will probably have many generations of female anger against males to deal with. That is very challenging. You can do it. First you have to acknowledge and understand your own power. You have more power than you may have been taught that you have. Get to know it.

          It’s never okay to be abused, not by men and not by women. Abuse can be very subtle.

          Like

  29. Unfortunately, I know exactly what you mean. I was in a relationship with one a couple of years ago, and have just recently ran into another. . . or more likely, he ran into me. It’s always the lying that gets me–the grandiosity of having to make things look bigger, or worse, or more than what they are in reality. It just hit me this morning that that is what this guy is–a classic narc. No I know why he is the yin to my yang, and why he feels the same. And he’s like a vortex–I know I need to run, fast and far.

    Like

    1. They live in a fantasy world of their own creation, they are a fantasy of their own making, and fantasies are more real to them when they make them as big as possible. Those fantasies are very attractive to others because life can be a bit too real and grim and grey and their technicolour dreams and dramas are like falling into Wonderland and meeting them is like meeting the Mad Hatter.

      The key to understanding a Narcissist lies in seeing them as a child in an adults’ body, a rather warped, yet very charming at times, and ruthlessly cruel at other times, child with a brilliant ability to live permanently in their land of make believe, and make others believe their make believe.

      Take the inspiration which he brought into your life, that’s his gift to you. He made you feel special in some way, that specialness about you is real. But if he is a Narcissist, he will eventually try to make you forget your specialness because he wants it for himself.

      Take care of yourself, and trust your instincts.

      Like

      1. God, you are so spot on!! I felt from the moment I met him that he “just got me”, and I figured out why this week–he sought me out. You know, not me specifically, but a woman just like me, to soothe him, and be stable, and be all those things he isn’t. And up until this last week he has been quite charming, but slowly he has started to turn–they always do. I feel bad for him, and do see that child in him, seeking approval he must never have received from either one, or both, of his parents. He is very good looking, intelligent, musically talented, and quite magnetic, yet he doesn’t like that reality so makes up another–quite sad. I just have to remember that I can’t “fix” him.

        Like

        1. He sought you out specifically, not a woman like you but you. You have something extra, a very special something. He saw it and recognised it. The gift he’s giving you is basically for you to see what he saw, only with your eyes not his. He is showing you your inner beauty, your power, which is so much more valuable than all of your outer beauty, because it is something which never fades, in fact it grows stronger and more beautiful with time.

          People often think Narcissists do not have empathy, they do, very strongly, but they use it in a way which is not considered empathy. He felt your power, and he wants to own your power. He’ll never own it which will eventually frustrate him and he will start taking you to pieces to get it or at least stop you from having it. If he can’t have you can’t either. This process is subconscious more than conscious. Most Narcissists are fairly oblivious to their behaviour. They know they do it, but they don’t want to know they do it so they forget and thus they don’t know they do it.

          The problem with trying to remember that you can’t ‘fix’ him, is that he is whispering to you – please help me, save me, fix me. Narcissist make love a heroic quest, which is why it is very hard not to fall in love with them, and why they are so magnetic. We all dream of heroic love, we all want to be heroes. So difficult to resist. But all heroic quest have great perils… those are also provided by the Narcissist. There be dragons. And they are the dragon as well as the person who needs to be saved from the dragon.

          Take the gift he gave you – showing you how beautiful you are – there is nothing else you can do. It is sad, but he’ll be fine, this is a part of who he is. Take care of yourself.

          Like

          1. The things you say I find so interesting, and get me to thinking. He is almost 14 years younger than me, and like I said, quite good looking, so I was very flattered. He actually told me he picked me out, and said to himself, “That one. I am going home with her tonight.” And while flattered, I also somehow felt powerful, for awhile, until I began to feel weak, wanting something more from him, and him refusing to give it.

            In some way, it makes me feel better though, that you think he wants something I have. I guess I would rather think that, than just think he is just using me without any thought of me whatsoever. Does that make sense?

            Like

            1. Not only does it make sense, it is true. You have something special about you, he saw it and wants it. It is very beautiful to him, but he has to be careful, you can’t know how much power you have and so he must make you forget what he revealed to you. Remember that feeling, the feeling of power. Forget the weakness, that unfortunately comes from interacting with a Narcissist. They give so much in the first few moments of being with them, but then they get the fear, and once that takes hold of them, they try to hide everything they have revealed. And the way they hide it hurts others, especially you, the one who has that special power they want for themselves, it hurts them too but… they never get that part of it.

              He may be good looking… but you are beautiful. Now you have to see that, really see it. He can’t give you more then he already has, but he can take more than he has. What you give him is up to you. You have the power. He knows that and wants you to think that he has all the power. Power games are the Narcissist’s favourite game and they are very good at them, they practice all the time.

              Like

              1. It is like a game of tug-of-war. He retreats and says he’s going out of town for a week, and texts when he returns, and comes to see me right away. He lets me know that I was the first one he got ahold of when he got back in town. I tell him I missed him, and he says, “Of course you did.”, but then he says he missed me too. Push-pull, push-pull. . . .advance, retreat. It’s like a really sick dance. I know I have to keep some sort of distance from him, lest he take my soul.

                Like

                1. Men approach relationships differently from women. That’s a given. When in love, especially in the first stages of love, men tend to do things or not do things, they prefer action (or action as in non-action) to words, they act of their emotions, women tend to think about things a lot, discuss their emotions, think about love, and often over-analyse, they prefer words to action (although they discuss action quite a bit, and usually the discussion revolves around what a man is doing or not doing). When you’re in a relationship with a Narcissist the usual gender differences are taken to an extreme. Because they rarely do anything halfway, they certainly never meet others halfway. So when a Narcissist male acts, it is a grand gesture, sweeping you off your feet and carrying you away to his kingdom in the clouds. When a Narcissist male does not act, it is also very loud. He is saying – I am NOT doing this and I’ll leave you to figure out why, it’s probably your fault.

                  The push-pull of relationship is also amplified. When they push they mow you down, when they retreat they disappear.

                  If you are certain that he is a Narcissist and want to continue the relationship, then you will have to teach yourself to detach from his behaviour and not take it personally. Accept him exactly as he is, no fixing, no evolving, no changing. If he is a Narcissist, that’s that, he is and will always be exactly as he is. Otherwise your soul may be at risk. It isn’t really at risk, no one can actually take your soul, but it will feel like it. If anyone can make you believe in soul stealing, it is a Narcissist, they can make fantasy seem very real. And the more you take everything they say and do personally, and they will try to convince you to do so and try to force it upon you, make you responsible for everything yet in charge of nothing, the more you will feel as though you are being deconstructed to the very heart of you until there is nothing left of you.

                  It’s up to you, you have the power of choice.

                  Like

                  1. Thanks so much for taking the time to converse with me on this! Everything you say really hits home, and I am so glad I stumbled onto your blog. I agree that if I decide to remain friends with him, I will have to allow him to be just as he is—in reality, it’s all we can do in relationships with others, regardless of whether they’re narcissists or not. I have previously been in a relationship with a narcissist, and also one with a guy who had anti-social personality disorder, so I am proud of myself for actually seeing this for what it is before I got in much deeper.

                    The power of choice is what will keep me powerful and healthy. Thanks so much!!!

                    Like

              2. This post is very encouraging. Thank you.

                >And the way they hide it hurts others, especially you, the one who has that special
                >power they want for themselves, it hurts them too but… they never get that part of it.

                This part is interesting… so when they know we figured them out they become more abusive? Is that what you’re saying?
                And the more they need us the more abusive they become? And the more abusive they become the more the need us?
                Do they need us more as time proceeds or less? Do they become attached? They certainly make the impression they need you less….and can leave any moment but my guess is that the truth is the opposite.

                >he has to be careful

                Sure but there are some paradoxes here:
                As time proceeds they become more abusive. Give more silent treatments etc… even though we are closer to figuring them out!!! They are just confirming and confirming so we figure them out more… Why??

                And they are extremely jealous, in constant need of supply and they think we are the same. So why ignore the supply, give the silent treatment for days and run the risk we take of with someone else for example? Why would they do that? Is it just a rational and educated guess that we will hang in there based on past experiences? In a way they are punishing themselves right? Why are they able to deny supply and punish, become jealous and run the risk of reliable supply leaving? My Narc is very good in analyzing these kind of situations….plans very well (even though pretending to be chaotic), and still they think it will work out fine for them.. I guess this is the magical thinking..

                I would like to add that the most baffling for me was the notion they have the right to do anything they please and they are GENUINELY surprised and offended if that person does the same to them next time….

                Real life (kind of innocent) example:
                she: why did you take 3 hours before replying to my textmessage
                me: oh come on….sometimes you don’t reply the whole day
                she: sure, I know, but of course I would like a fast reply! (stressing “I”)

                another example:
                me: I am there for you, but when will you be there for me?
                she: yeah…I know.. but I need you more now then you need me…

                I could go on and on

                Doesn’t that speak for itself?

                Basically saying: I can treat others like shit but myself I require to be treated as a queen!! What person on this planet would take that crap? How can you live like that and not expect to be bashed, hurt, kicked out of peoples lifes time after time… (and subsequently be offended!!).. Note that she is a very realistic and rational person. When analyzing other situations she knows exactly what’s going on. But they are just not able to look at themselves in a realistic way.

                Like

                1. Thank you 🙂

                  The more they realise they need us – but the realisation and need is different from our version of it – the more they hate us because it gives us power over them. They need us more than we need them. We are extensions of them, like limbs. When we try to leave them, it is as though their arm is trying to detach itself from their body.

                  The more they realise how much they need us the more they try not to need us because they see the attachment and need as a weakness – which is exactly what it is. So they try to make us irrelevant to them. To not need us and to make us aware of it. It’s a twisted form of self defense.

                  It can also be a test. They love testing our love for them because they don’t understand it and can’t feel it.

                  We get under their skin just as much as they get under ours, maybe more than they do because we’re not trying to stop them from being a part of our lives whereas they protect themselves from others all the time, can’t connect like we do, can’t be intimate, so they are actually more vulnerable than we are. The difference is that we do not know how deeply we get under their skin because they spend so much time trying to make sure we know that we can’t touch them that deeply, whereas that is what they focus on doing to get as deeply inside of us as they can.

                  They are driven by a need to be superhuman, and thus not experience what being human is, so the fact that they can’t live without humans hits them where it hurts the most. They also seek ultimate power and control, but the more they try to get it, the more they lose it. This makes them experience what I call – The Fear. They don’t feel emotions like we do because they never learned to deal with them or understand them, so they experience everything we experience but to them it is a build up of stress which they can’t deal with any other way than by exploding and releasing it towards someone else.

                  They don’t operate as we do because they have less relationship skills and people skills than we do, but they think they have more because they tell themselves that they do. They are the mind trying to deal with concepts which require emotional intelligence and other skills which only develop after the Narcissistic phase of human development. They do not understand what it is to be human because they’re afraid of being human. So they can’t grasp things which seem obvious to us. Just as we have a hard time grasping why they are so complicated when doing something simple.

                  They also can only view the world and other people from their perspective which is very narrow. They are not able to see our side of the story or that we are separate individuals from them.

                  The more you analyse the relationship and investigate the parts of it which leave you with questions, the more it will make sense, but you have to realise that they do not and can’t think and feel as we do. They are still children inside their adult bodies. Their perspective is stuck in a time warp.

                  There are times when you’ll just shrug and be relieved that you are not that way, and thankfully there are lots of people who are also not that way.

                  Like

          2. Good post.

            >People often think Narcissists do not have empathy, they do,
            >very strongly, but they use it in a way which is not considered empathy.

            Exactly… it’s depends how you define “empathy” in my opinion. They know exactly what you feel…and they know exactly how to make you feel in a certain way (in fact..they probably know it better then yourself!!)… If empathy is knowing and understanding how someone feels, then yes..they have empathy.

            But that is not empathy. Empathy is “feeling” what someone else feels. Becoming that person for a few seconds… They don’t have this… they DON’T CARE…. 😦

            So they don’t have empathy imo. They just know how to cause certain feeling inside of us, normal people, and they use it against us.

            >This process is subconscious more than conscious.

            I strongly disagree with this. They really think: “I know I treat you bad..but I want you to treat me well or I will punish you…I will not treat others how I wish to be treated. Sure… people may object but I don’t care… people might leave me but I can hook them a long time and will find someone else in time..”

            Like

            1. Thank you.

              I agree, figuring out each person’s personal definition of an abstract concept and a word is important because then you know if you’re using the same meaning or not. We each have a personal dictionary which isn’t always the same dictionary which others use, and it make communication all the more complicated at times. Love, for instance, some people only use the word to mean romantic love, and use like and other words for other types of love, whereas some people use it for everything to mean like and adore and enjoy etc.

              What you said about defining what empathy means also applies to conscious and subconscious. It depends on how you define conscious and subconscious. My definition of them may not be the same as yours. We may actually be saying the same thing but we use different ways and words to say it.

              To me a Narcissist who is conscious has the internal dialogue which you described. They know what they’re doing. They are also easier to deal with. They are aware and they acknowledge more of their behaviour because they are smug and proud of it. They like to boast about their manipulations. If you catch them out, they’ll sometimes even grudgingly respect you for it, they’ll still try to destroy you and outwit you. It’s all a game, a power game.

              To me a Narcissist who is subconscious has a different internal dialogue, one which repeats to them how good they are and how bad others are, and why don’t people love them, they just don’t understand, they do their best (which is better than what others do), but still people are always hurting them. These kind of Narcissists are much harder to deal with because they believe that they are good, so they are completely immersed in their delusion. They do not have any idea of what they are doing or saying, except for brief moments when they are aware and the truth is too ugly so they cover it up in positive affirmations of their goodness. These types of Narcissists are more likely to call other people evil and negative and bad, and spread the word through gossip thinking they are a hero of light on a crusade against darkness.

              Everything that I write about Narcissists is based on my personal experience of the Narcissists I have known. There are many Narcissists I have not met and known. It is also based on how I experience them. We can only see people through the filter of ourselves, and that makes a huge difference to who we think people are, including Narcissist.

              Like

              1. Thanks,

                >My definition of them may not be the same as yours

                Okay. The point I was trying to make is that the moment I realized it was conscious (in my case) everything changed… I could of course not speak freely anymore…had to be aware of the game all the time and of course really regretted telling here that she might be a narcissist…. from that moment on the real abuse started and I guess she decided to try to destroy me.

                I became “educated” enough to know I was probably dealing with a narcissist but not educated enough to know to shut up about it…and stand above it and hide my knowledge. It was not in my advantage to share that knowledge, mildly expressed… I guess sometimes I was pulled in her fantasy world again and became sincere. Then when taking some distance you start to see things how they are again.

                >To me a Narcissist who is subconscious has a different internal dialogue

                Yeah… unless it’s a conscious narcissist that was figured out playing an unconscious one 😉 like a game within a game…. incredibly tiring…

                In any way…it absolutely swept me of my feet… the realization that there are people like that.

                Thank you for this blog!

                Like

                1. The important part of it is that you are conscious and aware that you’re dealing with a Narcissist. Realising that and learning what it means is a game changer. The balance of power shifts. Your understanding helps to clarify the confusion they create. And eventually it helps to get you out of their version of reality.

                  They live in the mind, so they are very agile at mind games, and their main focus is to control everyone and everything. It’s actually a weakness, but until we snap out of the trance they put us in, it’s a strength for them.

                  It’s very difficult to extract yourself, not just because they hang on for dear life to you, but also because your love is real and it influences your choices.

                  You know, I think that the experience of being with a Narcissist as poisonous and hellish as it can be ultimately benefits us. We become more aware of ourselves and what we’re made of. We find strengths and talents we never knew we had because we’re in a situation which demands that we become stronger, wiser and more conscious of everything about ourselves and others. It’s a steep and painful learning curve, but worth it because we become more true to ourselves in a down to earth way.

                  She sounds like a nightmare, but she probably seemed like a dream at first. And you sound like an amazing person. I hope your next experience of love brings you much joy and no nonsense, at least no Narcissistic nonsense, some nonsense can be fun, just not the NPD kind 🙂

                  Like

                  1. >so they are very agile at mind games

                    With the text messaging I could keep up. If I built in some delay in reading and responding I knew what the objective was… what to respond.
                    But face to face: impossible. So incredibly quick, easy talking, very quickly confabulate lies, manipulating, getting angry, showing tears etc etc…. Poor family, poor kids that are put up with it their whole life! They will never get out of it.

                    In my opinion they really know our reactions better than ourselves… She studied me for months in the honeymoon phase I think. This is why withdrawing is the only way eventually, I believe. Else they will always get to you. And the farther away you are, the more convincing you are, the more effort they will put in to hoover you back in because there is more to gain.

                    It’s like they think: “i hate myself….I am bad… I will cheat, steal, lie, do everything to hurt you!! And then if you take me back I am not that bad, else why would you do that?”….. They actually use that when you complain: Oh well….if I am that bad why are you with me?

                    >It’s very difficult to extract yourself
                    Yes, and you just believe that moment that the person is sincere.

                    Like

                    1. Have you ever been to this youtube account – http://www.youtube.com/user/NPDrecovery/videos – the videos are excellent and insightful, and sometimes humorous. It’s by a child of a Narcissist who realised she had absorbed their behaviour and was behaving in a way which may be Narcissistic. She has a blog too – http://npdrecovery.blogspot.co.uk/

                      You might find it interesting and it may help to fill in the blanks. Your ability to analyse and review the relationship is excellent. Extra information may clarify points where you may still have questions which aren’t fully answered.

                      Like

              2. …my ex thinks he is a God given gift to people..he is good generous and everyone else is stupid ungrateful and EVIL..yes he calls other people evil..there is no reasoning with him at all..im trying to deal with him (we have a child) best to my knowledge and ability but it is exhausting and sometimes i just dont know what to do anymore..

                Like

                1. That does sound like NPD. It’s not always easy to tell.

                  Having a child together means your ex will always be a part of your life, and if he has NPD your child may be used to get at you if your ex is angry with you. Does your ex think you abandoned him? Those with NPD often think that when a relationship ends even when they do the ending, it’s sometimes the reason for them to end the relationship. Who initiated the split? This will change the dynamic and how to deal with your ex.

                  Does your ex call you ‘evil’? If he does then he will be trying to prove he is right about it and be using other people to support his view.

                  There are ways to create a ‘truce’ of sorts between you, but they require that you use his ‘game’ on him, turn the tables. And that is very difficult if you are trying to recover from the trauma of being in the relationship as well as caring for the well being of your child.

                  You need a support system made up of people you can trust, whom you know are on your side and will not be fooled by your ex. People who understand you and what you are going through, and can remind you of how strong you are, and give you a boost of energy when you are exhausted, and a safe haven when you need to relax.

                  I’m going to refer you to a couple of very good blogs created by those who have been in a similar situation as yours.

                  1 – http://n-continuum.blogspot.co.uk/ – there is a lot of very good information here and they have a forum which offers support.

                  2 – http://letmereach.com/ – she is very caring and blogs about a similar relationship, offering advice.

                  I hope this helps.

                  Take care of yourself.

                  Like

                  1. He is 100% full blown NPD. I was the one who initiated the split and it was ugly, very ugly with the court, police, lawyers and etc.. He said I ruined his life.. You are right even if we have a court order he still finds a way to twist and manipulate it the way it feeds his needs and etc ..There is no paper in the world or an authority can change it..now I know it…… I also cant run to the court about everything so Im trying to find a happy medium but even that sometimes is impossible.. ..The only thing he is ‘good’ is paying a child support on time which I think he does it to manipulate me..and on the top of it my son has autism..kinda blessing and not in this whole tragedy, he cant manipulate him. Narcissist is like BEAST who cant never be full no matter how often you feed it..People don’t understand that even the close one they accuse me for being too soft, too engaging and suggest court, lawyers and psychologist again but what this change for few months and we are back to square one…uffff

                    Like

                    1. You’re actually more in control of the situation and relationship than he is. However you need to ask yourself what you want to achieve. This is a very important question as the situation depends on it.

                      Don’t concern yourself with what other people understand or don’t understand, they’re spectators watching a drama and living vicariously through it. They aren’t there when it matters, they scatter. You’re the person who matters, as is your child, and also your ex in a way.

                      You will be very angry and probably have a lot of unexpressed rage as most of those who have been in a relationship with someone with NPD do. But you are dealing with a situation which needs a cool logical head. So find a safe place to express your rage, then bring a cool head to the day to day of the relationship.

                      He pays child support. That is good. Doesn’t matter why he does it, what matters is he does it. Lots of parents don’t do it and cause endless costs and stress for the other parent trying to force the other legally to do it. This is a win for you. It may not feel like one, but it is. Your ex cares about your child, even if it is in an NPD way.

                      So, what exactly do you want to know which will help you? I can, based on my own child of Narcissists experience, give you some tips which may work with your ex, but you might not like those tips. It’s up to you, you have the power, use it with awareness. You can manipulate your ex in a beneficial way for all involved, that includes your ex. But this may not satisfy you and may frustrate you.

                      The beast can’t be filled, but it can be made to be less of a beast. It’s up to you.

                      Like

                    2. That’s true I like your insight on it..Sometimes my anxiety takes over and I don’t see things the way they are but I remember them through past when I was with him and life was even more violent, stressful and chaotic..There is a lot of things he can come up with, almost daily…Recently he ”offered” but it was more like a ”request” to rent his house so he can move by the lake. I don’t want to rent his house because I don’t want to deal with him even more than I have to now..He got so upset, throw a tantrum (via texts messages) and tried to use a child support as a bargain..When I firmly refused something he come up immediately with me another idea..Even his current girlfriend texted me to convince to change my mind..So my method of dealing with him is;
                      1. if i can do something and it is acceptable for me i do it so he can fuck off and save myself headache
                      2. if i dont want to do it but i pretend to do it by stretching a time line with hope he forgets which often happens..
                      3. try to convince him it is a bad idea and change his mind which is very hard and almost impossible
                      So I guess my question is how deal with this type who can be nasty,humiliating when I have to say NO..?

                      Like

                    3. First thing you have to do is centre yourself and realise you have personal power. You are the strong and powerful one in the situation. Your ex knows this, those with NPD are very aware of power dynamics, this is partly why he is aggressive, because he feels powerless with you. Especially as you broke up with him, he has to prove to you that that was a terrible mistake. His identity is very fragile, and for him any rejection is a hammer to his fragile self image.

                      It is important to keep focused and have a clear head when dealing with someone with NPD as you get his confusion dumped on you. So you have to visualise the confusion as water which washes over you and you remain still waiting for the flood to subside. It takes practice, but you’ve already had a lot of practice dealing with him, so use your knowledge. You are an expert on his behaviour. Those with NPD do the same behaviour over and over again.

                      Next you need to keep in mind that those with NPD can’t – not won’t – see your side of the situation. He is incapable, even if he wanted to, to see things from your point of view. So you can’t convince him because he can’t understand what you are saying. His mind is very rigid. Yes, he is flexible when he needs to manipulate people, but it is still to serve a rigid view – his view which is the only view he has. He clings to it for dear life.

                      If he has decided that something is a good idea, it is the only idea or thing to do. So, offering you to rent his house in his mind is a brilliant solution to his problem. That is that. He has decided. He can only see things from his point of view. He sees his point of view as your point of view too.

                      When you say ‘No’ to him, for him that is rejection of more than the idea, it is as though you are rejecting him.

                      You’re either with him or against him. To be with him makes him happy, to be against him in any way makes him angry. And he thinks you’re crazy for not seeing things his way as his way is the only way, there is no other way.

                      Since those with NPD don’t know how to deal with rejection, it causes tremendous fear and emotional build up like terrible pressure inside, and they explode to release it.

                      Have you noticed if he feels better once he has had a tantrum? Like he has released pressure?

                      So saying ‘No’ to him becomes very difficult because he sees it as an attack, he feels threatened and so he defends himself. You need to find a way to say ‘No’ firmly, but using positive reinforcement to gradually train him to accept a ‘No’ because it is good for him to accept it. It is something he enjoys hearing and it makes him feel good about himself. You need to reward him for accepting a ‘No’.

                      What is he proud of? What is he vain about? What are the sort of things he loves to hear? What makes him feel like being generous? If he feels that he is going to look good accepting the ‘No’ and if he believes it is his idea to accept the ‘No’, then he will be less angry, and may even be as happy as someone with NPD ever can be.

                      Those with NPD are like very angry and very clever children. So treat him like a child, but don’t let him know that’s what you’re doing. You know when a child doesn’t want to do something it is difficult to force them to do it and they get very anxious and may have a tantrum. Someone with NPD is exactly the same as a child only they never learn or grow up. You have to gently make them think that it’s their idea to do what you want them to do.

                      I use the tactic of implanting the idea I want them to have in their minds. So I say something like – That’s a brilliant idea you had… – and then I tell them what the idea is. It has to be the sort of idea they might think of. You’ll know how he thinks, how he expresses himself, so use your knowledge. Repeat it the idea ‘he’ had to him, praising him for it.

                      If he is similar to those with NPD whom I know, he’ll be unable to resist taking credit for a brilliant idea. They are also quite easy to confuse as they don’t really listen to what they’re saying and can’t recall every brilliant idea they have had.

                      It’s basically using the ‘gaslighting’ which those with NPD use, only in a positive way so everyone benefits from it.

                      With the house, do some research and find a reason why it’s a bad idea for you to rent it. Something which could make your ex look bad, but offering a way for him to look really good. Such as that in some way it may affect your child, maybe it is too far from school or friends. Your ex is very proud of being a good father, he shows this by paying child support, so use this pride of being a good father to help him accept the ‘No’ about the house rental. That way he is encouraged to keep being a good father, and he’ll accept the ‘No’ because it was his idea.

                      Say something along the lines of – I’m so glad you noticed that the house was too far from our child’s school, or that he would be unhappy as he would not be able to see his friends as often.

                      Unfortunately you do have to be very manipulative, but it is going to be beneficial for everyone. It’s not about hurting your ex, on the contrary he has to benefit. The only way to stop a raging Narcissist is to make them want to stop for themselves. If he sees you as a source of acceptance, he won’t feel the need to be so angry with you about the break up.

                      The goal is for everyone involved to get what they want. Your ex wants to feel wonderful and you want to have an easier time dealing with him so you can live your life. And your child will have a father who enjoys proving what a good father he is.

                      I sound rather manipulative, but I use it for good 😉 a gift in the curse of growing up with Narcissists as parents. Anyway I hope this helps, it depends entirely on what you are comfortable doing, but since you have to deal with your ex it helps to use what he understands – manipulation. Those with NPD assume everyone is like they are, only just not as clever as they are.

                      Like

                    4. You are right about everything..I need to remember all these things all the time but every now and then I don’t. I need to be even more in control of my emotions and ego for my son’s happiness and well-being..

                      He is obsessed with karma, good deeds, generosity and GOD… He thinks he is all these things but he is not. He is abusive, nasty and even physically violent towards women specially. He likes when people thank him and talk about his ‘good deeds’, how great he is and etc.He also cares about his image. He is addicted to taking pics and sending/postingFB to everyone he knows to admire him for this and that…He gets so much kick of it.

                      Delegating tasks and making people to do his job is his MO too, specially his current girlfriends..I know them all not by a choice. I’m with some of them friends. Yep some of them escaped him and became close to me.

                      I would say my goal i to keep peace and the court order we have because I was in charge all the rules but he is trying to change it or abuse it.

                      Like

                    5. Most males with NPD are misogynistic. Females with NPD tend to be misandrists. It’s part of the disorder. I think those with NPD just hate people, but they express that hate openly more often towards the gender they are not or the gender they are sexually attracted to because sex makes them feel vulnerable. Anything (and anyone) which makes them feel vulnerable is something they fear. Fear causes stress for them, they feel threatened and then attack. It’s a very specific pattern.

                      So, you know what he is obsessed with. These are his weaknesses. These can be used to get him to cooperate and think that he has decided to cooperate. He has to think he is in control. He feels safe that way.

                      Befriending his girlfriends is actually a good idea. Keep it diplomatic and impersonal. Especially with the ones who are under his spell and haven’t decided they need to escape. The ones like you mentioned who are friends because they see the truth of his NPD, they are allies too. But he has moved on, so keep up to date with his movements and gently make yourself the reasonable one in their eyes.

                      Those with NPD use people, as you know. You can ‘use’ the same people, just by being friendly. If they’re under his spell, then you just wait until they wake up, don’t try to wake them up, just wait, be diplomatic.

                      It’s a long and slow process, take your time. Stay focused.

                      When he tries to change or abuse the legal system, just gently push him back on the right course. Give him praise when he does it right and legal. You are training him to want to do things right. If he tries to do something wrong, don’t confront him, just change his mind by convincing him that he wants to do the right thing. Convincing him in the way I explained in the other comment – positive reinforcement and making him think it’s his idea to do things the right way because it makes him clever and in control.

                      If you challenge him he will fight back, if you make him think he’s in control, he’ll do things the way that you want him to because he wants to.

                      Remember you know him very well, use what you know to your advantage so that everyone benefits. It might be difficult because you’re angry at him, but he’ll never understand that. Work with what he understands. See yourself as a diplomat of the UN.

                      Trust yourself, you know how to work with this situation.

                      Like

                    6. Thank You for your advice…BTW In my opinion, autism and NPD have not much in common, at least based on my experience with it. My son is so sweet and caring. He always ask me if I am happy or sad. He cant take it when I’m stressed or sad and he is trying to fix it with kisses and hugs..People with autism are so empathetic but they get overwhelmed with emotions and cant process these correctly like we neurotypical people do, that’s why there is so many misconceptions about autism..Thanks again..:)

                      Like

                    7. I agree with you.

                      You’re referring to the comment that the other commenter made. I deleted it as soon as I saw it, and I had hoped that you hadn’t read it. It made me angry. It was out of order, disrespectful and I am sorry you were exposed to it.

                      I have dyslexia, and I have heard people say similar things about that. Usually the people who say those sort of things do not have in depth experience or understanding of it.

                      Please accept my apologies.

                      Thank you for sharing and best wishes on sorting things out, remember you have the knowledge and power, trust yourself and take care of yourself.

                      Like

                    8. I feel an such a sadness since I have gone NC. Like Ive lost the love of my life, whats wrong with me? Like an Illness sigh….. but I know if I go back it will be unleashing the dragon. The are like an alien species, taking us apart and then watching how we react. Please tell me the pain is going to go away ?

                      Like

                    9. Pain is not an enemy, it is an ally. It shows you what is wounded and what needs healing. So, yes, if you work on healing the pain, understanding what happened, how you feel, why you feel the way you do, then it will gradually go away, but it might leave a scar for remembrance.

                      When a relationship ends it is similar to a death of a loved one and a period of mourning is part of the natural process of letting go and moving on.

                      There is nothing wrong with you, on the contrary everything is right with you. You fell in love, the love was beautiful, then it became not beautiful, become a source of pain, and slowly love began to die. So you’re in mourning.

                      BUT your love is still alive within you, it is going to go through a rebirth, and when you are ready it will fill your life again with beauty and elation.

                      Be very gentle with yourself, and give yourself time to feel exactly what you are feeling, acknowledge yourself and your pain, and keep going, one day you will pass through the darkness into sunshine.

                      No Contact is very difficult and requires determination and patience. Remember why you chose to do it, and stay focused on doing what is right for you.

                      Those with NPD are alien, at least a human version of what an alien is (in fact one person with NPD I knew used to refer to themselves as an alien). Growing up as the only child of two parents with NPD – I was the one who felt like an alien because they were so foreign to me and they were the first humans I knew. They come across as alien because they don’t like being human, they want to be super human. They live in the mind, their emotions are mental constructs, they think and what they think is what they feel, their feelings are thoughts.

                      They also tend to think that everyone is like them (only they’re superior). So they think we think as they do, and they are afraid that we’ll do to them what they are doing to us (because it was done to them as children and this is what caused them to have NPD), so they do it first. They lash out at us to defend themselves from being hurt by us, but the hurt we are causing them is all in their paranoid heads. Once they think we’re an enemy, then they have to destroy us. They live in a reality populated by myth, and they always need a dragon to fight, and heroes to save them from the dragons they create… but ultimately they are the dragon and they can’t be saved from themselves.

                      There is nothing you can do for someone with NPD, you will never get through to them, they will never acknowledge you, your feelings, your thoughts, or your side of the story. They think they know it all, that their truth is the only truth, their version of reality is the only reality, and they think everyone else is making stuff up, only they know the facts. When challenged in any way, they think their world is going to disintegrate and their life is going to end, so they become ultra defensive and attack.

                      So, take care of yourself, trust yourself, feel the pain, and let it gradually show you how to heal it, and find a new and more uplifting, encouraging, and life affirming love. 🙂

                      You’ll be fine… baby steps… you will fall in love again.

                      Like

                    10. Thank you, you soothe my soul. Yes you are right, I will rise again. I know this is putting a funny spin on things but when things were not as bad, and boy they get bad as we all know. I used to love to listen to what lies he would come out with next. I almost felt like putting on my pj’ssitting at his feet and listen to the story of the day. I never want to carry this around and will use this as a good experience eventually. thank you. big hug

                      Like

                    11. Thank you 😀

                      That funny spin is actually a very wise spin. There is a gift in the curse of being in a relationship with someone with NPD. We learn and benefit from the interaction just as much as we suffer and feel pain. Once the pain and rage subsides, then you can see the good things which came out of it and it helps with healing and moving on.

                      What sitting there listening to his tales shows you is how perceptive you are, but also it shows that there are certain aspects to NPD which can be appreciated… from a detached distance… as a lesson in listening, really listening to what people say and questioning it. They are talented story tellers, more so because they often believe their stories while they are spinning them.

                      You have a refreshing, insightful and wise attitude, I think you’re going to enjoy the next part of your journey and life adventure.

                      Take care of yourself and be gentle with yourself, trust yourself!

                      Best wishes 😀

                      Like

  30. It’s a dark place where you have been living ! and only you can let the light in by recognizing the person you are ! I wrote this to myself when my marriage was devoid of any feelings other then emptiness!…..
    When you feel the walls beginning to crumble around you and the facade begin to loose its glamour. When with all the cells in your body you know it’s for the best, that amongst the decay you smile and at times your soul soars to heights never experienced before……. The realization that your life is going to change dramatically and for the better. A new sense of self begins to emerge, new life, new dreams thoughts and goals…… Mine, my life my heart and my soul….. 🙂 I’m welcoming me into my heart and I like her 🙂 hello Jane xxxx

    Like

  31. I knew one! I didn’t know what was wrong with me until I found something that described Narcissism – then I knew for sure – IT WASN’T ALL ME! Thanks for your share – mine was a relationship that right after a relationship related trauma – and he wasn’t the nastiest of the narcies from the stories I’ve read – but he spent almost 7 yrs hacking away every bit of self worth I had left & fucking w/my head. 7 yrs later, and I’m much better, but I am still recovering!

    Like

    1. Thank you.

      Glad to hear you snapped out of the illusion he created for you, it’s the first step and one of the most difficult ones to take, and congratulations on recovering from being stripped of your self worth. It takes courage and determination to rebuild what has been destroyed. The thing is, as awful as it can be and get, there is a gift in the relationship and experience of being with a Narcissist. They force us to look at ourselves, to stop relying on others for our value and worth, to rely on ourselves and find out who we really are because they confuse us and make us doubt our identity. Being stripped of self worth makes us find new ways of valuing ourselves. So ultimately after being made to feel weak, we come out far stronger than we ever were. They teach us a lesson the hard way, but those lessons are always the most precious ones because they are also hard to forget. And we take what we’ve learned and apply it to the rest of our lives and relationships. So the negative turns into a positive, by transforming itself within us, and transforming ourselves, the way we relate to ourselves and to others.

      Trust yourself, believe in yourself, and enjoy the freedom it gives!

      Like

  32. I am 61. Both of my parents were narcissists. If you don’t know what that means, then count your lucky stars. A savvy counsellor (of which there are not many) once said to me, “If your parents were narcissists, then you are TRULY alone.” When I see writing like yours, it gives me comfort. As you say, nobody gets it. It’s like being an escaped slave with Post Traumatic Stree Disorder and a deadly secret. How do you justify to people that you don’t have any family? Will I ever heal? But I keep getting closer with wise words like yours. Thank you. I will read the book.

    Like

    1. PS I meant “savvy about narcissism” rather than a general slam against counsellors. Counsellors have kept me alive. And “61” doesn’t mean dried up and finished; I am pretty, athletic, and fun but narcissist-parent history just takes so damn long to come to any kind of terms with.

      Like

    2. Thank you. It has taken me until now, in my 40’s, to truly unravel the threads of the knot of my life, especially my childhood which affected every other age afterwards. I mention my age because getting older has made all the difference in a beneficial way. I feel more at home in myself. My age has given me the confidence to say to hell with society and everyone else what matters is what I think, feel, am, because that affects my reality.

      It’s funny but I feel younger now than I did as a child, perhaps because I was prematurely aged by my Narcissistic parents, they needed me to parent them because they preferred to be permanent children. I shouldered the burden of their wounds and it aged me, now I’m returning their wounds to them and reclaiming my lost youth. Metaphorically 😉

      I was thinking about how alone I was as a child. I felt it strongly and was very aware of it then. I used to hope that someone outside would see the reality of my situation and save me. My godfather was a child psychologist and he agreed with my parents that children were to blame for what their parents did to them. He used to tell me that I had to be a better daughter. I thought things would be different when I grew up. However I found that society was very judgmental about children who spoke up about their parents being bad parents. If I had a penny for every time I’ve heard someone say to me – But they are your parents, they love you. No, they don’t and never did, they did not know how. I knew that as a child… but I did keep hoping. Ugh!

      So I remained in a prison which was created for me by my parents, by others around me, then by society, and which I accepted and kept. I ended up being my own prison warden. Blogging about my experience has released me from that prison. I am not going to write a book about it though, people keep asking me that and I think the reason is not the ones I’ve given, but more to do with having dedicated enough of my attention and mortal life to my parents as it is… and the book would be all about them in many ways and less about me. A book about Narcissists feeding the Narcissistic need with me as their supply source again. So… no.

      Besides the book I mentioned in this post is brilliant and says it all for me. I found it while browsing in a seconhand boookstore. Kismet!

      Will you heal? Yes and no. The wound is a permanent part of you, however within every wound is healing. What has helped me is to turn my view of the wound on its head. Everything you think is bad, see it as good. See the gift in the curse. To heal you have to claim that gift. You have to pass through the rage first and re-balance the blame. I did a lot of ranting when I first blogged about my childhood. I still do, but it’s beginning to lessen and become understanding which is helping me to turn the pain of the wound into a healing energy.

      Being alone as a child has given me the gift of being internally independent. Being the child of Narcissists has given me defined boundaries between my self and others.

      You are your own best therapist!

      Like

  33. Thank you Thank you so much for this post. It makes so much sense to me. I just posted something similar to this today about my personal experience with Narcissism in my family. I am only in the beginning of figuring out my lifetime encounters with Narcissists. I just started my own blog a month ago. It is so cathartic and I am learning so much along the way. I too seem to attract Narcissists.

    I hope I can find my “gift in the curse”. It could be just be me blogging, I know that helps me a lot

    Like

    1. Thank you 😀

      I would say that you have already found the gift in the curse.

      And I completely agree with you about blogging and catharsis. The release from silence is wonderful, and very insightful!

      Like

    1. Very true! Just when you think it’s over… they’re back for another round! And it really is very boring because they tend to do the same thing over and over trying to wear your resistance down. And because they are stuck in a loop. They often can’t see the repetition and think they’re doing something new when they are not.

      They rely on us forgetting the previous stuff, because they forget it, blank it out. Part of why they go away sometimes is to give us time to forget who they really are, who we saw behind the mask, so they can come back and pretend to be someone they prefer to be, who is usually the same person they always pretend to be when they first meet someone new.

      By the feeling in your words, I’m guessing you’ve had a long relationship with a Narcissist. Find the gift in the curse of it, there is a gift, takes a while to find it. That gift can help heal the wounds they cause. Or so I tell myself.

      Like

  34. I was in a relationship for 91/2 years. Some while he was living in different states. Everything was good until he started drinking again . I tried very hard to get him to get help. He didn’t want anything to do with this. He kept me hanging on. Found out that he was engaged to another women 6 weeks ago. Today he is married and moving with her to Texas! Are you serious? How in the hell? This sounds so unbelievable but that is how it went down. Never have I heard a word from him.. 9 1/2 years. A lot of lies!!!! Deceit!!!!! Help

    Like

    1. Since you commented on a post about Narcissism, I’m hazarding a guess that you may think your ex was a Narcissist. As much as he may have hurt you with his behaviour, there is a positive to be had out of all the negative – he is gone from your life. For those who know what it is like to be in a relationship with a Narcissist, when they leave you it is a good thing. The lies, deceit… you will heal in time. Use the pain to heal. And use the experience to find a relationship which will support you and uplift you. It’s good thing that he is gone, even if you still wish he was with you. You have the power to help yourself, use it, and give yourself something wonderful. Let go of him, embrace yourself!

      Like

  35. Narcissist magnet? LOLOLOLOLOLOL Me too. My mother trained me to tell her everything she does was right. And when I did not agree with her, I was a bad son who betrayed her and then used guilt to keep me. A thought of my own was forbidden. The word “WE” was used a lot as in “We like that person” or “We like that color” there was no “I”. My mother took credit for all my accomplishments. And then manipulated me to do what she always wanted to do with her life so she could live her dreams through me. I confronted my mother and told her to stop using me and she told me I had been abusing her ever since I was a child and my abuse of her is now “Stopped!” I life has never been better.

    Like

    1. Ah yes! Narcissists do tend to take the term child abuse a bit too literally! Poor them, they were perfect parents until they had a child and that child abused them. That made me laugh, you know, due to that slightly twisted sense of humour that a child of a Narcissist develops! Lol indeed!

      There are advantages and skills to be had from being the child of a Narcissist, it just takes a while to figure out what they are, but once we figure them out… watch out world! 😉

      Sounds like you’ve got the measure of your mother and that is a powerful ability as there are many Narcissists in this place called Earth and knowing how they operate is useful.

      Glad to hear that your life is now your own, it was a tough journey to get there, here, but worth it because you’re a force to be reckoned with! Beware to anyone who tries to mess with you!

      Thank you for sharing. 😀

      Like

    1. Hi, Thank you 😀
      I was checking out your Wp yesterday. You have some very fascinating ideas I want to explore further. I love minds which work like yours, which can spot patterns and bring everything together. Thank you for sharing your insights.
      Life is in many ways a game. I often equate it to video games with level-ups. Narcissists are stuck on one level, playing it over and over again. Sometimes I think of Narcissists like baddies in a video game who keep respawning, and I think, not you again!
      I can be silly, but silly has a purpose too 😉
      ❤ Ursula

      Like

      1. lol, yes that is so true about life. I was writing that in a post, there is this term gamafication, which is the real life adaption of gaming principles, I have always felt gamafication is what games actually and we can’t help but to relate game principles back to life because it’s an easier way of understanding things.
        I’m glad you have been enjoying my blog, it can be a lot to read to understand everything, but it has a lot of applications, and I am slowly gaining recognition for it. Out of interest, if there is a TV show/Film or a subject I have covered that you would like to know more about, let me know, and I can a post about it, I’m always look for inspiration of things to write about.
        Thank you so much for your kind words, I really do appreciate it, keep your blogging up, I enjoy your writing style.and perspective on life 🙂

        Like

  36. Your post is interesting and I am sorry that you have been caught up in your parents chaos again….I am aware that the death of my parents is something I have no experience in but am fully aware of the chaos and problems that will follow

    all the best to you 🙂

    Like

  37. I had to look it up. Is that bad or what? So self centered with the only goal in life is to wreck yours to enable whatever desire they need filled, and they dont feel any remorse or guilt or feelings whatsoever, unless it is sad or mad that they didn’t get what they wanted when they asked for it?

    Like

    1. One of my favourite things in life is looking things up. There is so much to learn and explore. I think our brains would explode if we knew everything 😉 I have to look things up all the time, especially the meanings of words. I love doing that, it’s like going on a discovery adventure. Who knows where it will lead.

      Narcissism is actually a stage of development which we all pass through, and a healthy dose of it is necessary. Narcissists get stuck in that phase of development, and never move on to the next stage, not properly. Underneath they are very sad and lonely, but that doesn’t excuse the hell they create for themselves, and especially others. I certainly hope you don’t know any, but there are an awful lot of them out there.

      Like

Comments are closed.

Up ↑

%d bloggers like this: